Barefoot running style - New Balance Minimus

Goldigga

Just bought a pair of these last week and have been pleasantly surprised. I didnt get on board with the Vibram 5 fingers, but wanted to check out a more barefoot style running. They take a bit of getting used to, but so far so good.

http://www.fleetfeetchicago.com/new-balance-trail-minimus-product-373.php?page_id=82

They are not quiet barefoot now. There is a 4mm drop from back to front, but for someone who is new to this i think they are a good transition.

Anybody else used these yet?

Deise Musashi

I recently bought Vivobarefoot Ultra's and it's taken two weeks to get used to walking in them!

Very thin 3mm sole but great feel for the surface underfoot, including pointy stones

d'Oracle

Goldigga wrote: »

Just bought a pair of these last week and have been pleasantly surprised. I didnt get on board with the Vibram 5 fingers, but wanted to check out a more barefoot style running. They take a bit of getting used to, but so far so good.

http://www.fleetfeetchicago.com/new-balance-trail-minimus-product-373.php?page_id=82

They are not quiet barefoot now. There is a 4mm drop from back to front, but for someone who is new to this i think they are a good transition.

Anybody else used these yet?

Can you even get these in Ireland yet?

Eric Cressey thinks they are great.

Burkatron

I think Mick Price In Crossfit Dublin was selling these at €105 a pop recently....edit: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150215915141227&set=a.250124516226.149647.238469296226&type=1&theater

Just wondering why people are jumping straight into minmalist runners you're going to make a mess of your legs if you're jumping straight from cushioned/standard runners, you're suppose to progress into these with different graded shoes over a period of time....or is that just a marketing gimmick? I thought it makes sense http://www.inov-8.com/transition/Transition_booklet_(WEB).pdf

Hanley

Burkatron wrote: »

I think Mick Price In Crossfit Dublin was selling these at €105 a pop recently....edit: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150215915141227&set=a.250124516226.149647.238469296226&type=1&theater

Just wondering why people are jumping straight into minmalist runners you're going to make a mess of your legs if you're jumping straight from cushioned/standard runners, you're suppose to progress into these with different graded shoes over a period of time....or is that just a marketing gimmick? I thought it makes sense http://www.inov-8.com/transition/Transition_booklet_(WEB).pdf

I've said this several times in relation to a sh*t tonne of stuff- people spend ages f*cking themselves up (getting fat, using cushiony runners w/e) and expect to fix themselves with minimal time and effort (getting lean, learning to run barefoot) only to wreck themselves and get nowhere. So yes, progress slowly. Either by reducing cushioning, or slowly increasing mileage again from a low level.

Goldigga

I've said this several times in relation to a sh*t tonne of stuff- people spend ages f*cking themselves up (getting fat, using cushiony runners w/e) and expect to fix themselves with minimal time and effort (getting lean, learning to run barefoot) only to wreck themselves and get nowhere. So yes, progress slowly. Either by reducing cushioning, or slowly increasing mileage again from a low level.

Thats exactly what i am doing. progressing slowly. wearing them on selected days and taking it fairly easy with them to begin with. These still have a 4mm drop, so i think they are a good minimal style shoe to start off on if you are coming straight from Asics gel etc.

I think Mick Price In Crossfit Dublin was selling these at €105 a pop recently....edit: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

That's not a bad price. i am currently living in the US and they cost me $99 (70 euro) from a New Balance shop but i obviously wouldnt expect them to be that proce in Ireland

Deise Musashi

it's taken two weeks to get used to walking in them!

I am taking it handy getting back into fitness training. I hate cardio, had to do it to make weight for tournaments but suffered with my knees from lots of kicking air :rolleyes:

This time round I have first sorted my diet, high protein and good fats, low carb, took ages to find coconut oil as there are no asian stores in the sticks

Now am walking barefoot style but will start couch to 5k using these shoes.
I am hoping forefoot landing will alleviate my knee problems, never had a bother training barefoot in martial arts seminars.

At my age (coming up on 40), I aim to do more stretching and remedial work like K. Starr's MWOD, more overall body work like kettlebell and *pseudo Olympic lifting, and a little steady state cardio and bagwork.

My weight training is based more on Starting Strength and Ross Training than Men's Health and Flex as was the case when I was a younger eejit!

Slow and steady is all I'm able for these days, but from seeing myself and lads I used to train with, steady easy progress is better than flash in the pan burnout style.

* I call it pseudo Oly. as there are no coachs locally to teach Olympic or Powerlifting technique.

A friend of mine is trying to organise a session of coaching with James Fennelly in my friend's garage gym. Hopefully it will come to pass!

RacoonQueen

You can get these wonderful pieces of happiness in this part of the world? :eek:

This is one shoe I'd consider going over €100 for.

Hopefully getting saucony hattori's this week too :cool:

Oisinjm

Been told by a highly respected physio who worked with the irish athletics team that in their opinion barefoot running just shouldn't be done by your average joe. You really will destroy your legs unless you progress from the high level support runners that the majority of us use to barefoot in a very slow manner. You see babies as young as a few months wearing runners, its illogical to think that we can just go straight back into running barefoot after years of support from our runners.

Deise Musashi

You see babies as young as a few months wearing runners, its illogical to think that we can just go straight back into running barefoot after years of support from our runners.

Why would babies need runners?

Is it not illogical to mess up years of evolution by cramming foam on to kids feet?

I am not a high level athlete, but I do feel my feet have gotten stronger from having worn no or very minimal shoes with the past month.

I am starting back running very slowly, but I much prefer my minimal shoes to the air filled ones I was last recommended.

I am just going back to the type of shoe I used to wear anyway, martial arts (TKD) shoes and squash runners for everyday wear. The main difference is the vivobarefoot ones have a wider toe box.

Oisinjm

Deise Musashi wrote: »

Why would babies need runners?

Is it not illogical to mess up years of evolution by cramming foam on to kids feet?

I am not a high level athlete, but I do feel my feet have gotten stronger from having worn no or very minimal shoes with the past month.

I am starting back running very slowly, but I much prefer my minimal shoes to the air filled ones I was last recommended.

I am just going back to the type of shoe I used to wear anyway, martial arts (TKD) shoes and squash runners for everyday wear. The main difference is the vivobarefoot ones have a wider toe box.

I never said that I believe its right to throw people into high support runners from a young age, I just said its what is done. I actually love the principals behind barefoot running, its back to basics and as things should be. The problem is that our feet have become accostomed to the support and if we want to return to as little support as possible its a process that will take time. If time isn't taken you run a very high risk of injuring yourself.

I'll repeat this again, I'm not an expert and I certainly amn't trying to offer medical advice. I'd just be very careful on how you go about getting into barefoot.

Hanley

Oisinjm wrote: »

Been told by a highly respected physio who worked with the irish athletics team that in their opinion barefoot running just shouldn't be done by your average joe. You really will destroy your legs unless you progress from the high level support runners that the majority of us use to barefoot in a very slow manner. You see babies as young as a few months wearing runners, its illogical to think that we can just go straight back into running barefoot after years of support from our runners.

The bolded part is the crucial bit. You can't undo years of damage with months of work. You wreck yourself over decades, you don't fix yourself over weeks.

gavtron

spotted this today:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-prepare-for-barefooting/

dragonkin

When I was 11-12 I used to run with a local club barefoot for a few years mainly competed in 1500m. Haven't got back into serious running since than as I play mainly team sports. But i'm interested in these shoes as I used to love running barefoot and agree with the philosophy. I'm petty sure the basic technique is still there but I'd like to know if anyone else in similar position tried them and how long it took them to get back into it? 27 now

David Jones

Good book with some sound advice for intro to barefoot running. 14$ on amazon or free from the author in pdf format here.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mvlk66bp7i5lh7a

I own two pairs of vibrams and I dont think I would go back to anything else.

Deise Musashi

I'd love to try Vibrams, but my twos are longer than my big toe :eek: :rolleyes:

The Vivo UltraM are wearing badly on the soles, croc type material isn't that tough.

The Achilles sandal are made of tougher stuff, may try the new invisible shoe connect soles next though

nathan_t

@Oisinjm - I have a feeling you're right on the money about that... you can't just jump into barefoot-style running and expect your soft feet and previously pampered joints to like it.

They even come with a warning on them:

"Caution: This product increases the strain on the foot, calf, and Achilles tendon. Overuse of this product or use of activities outside of running and walking may increase the risk of sustaining injury.
This product should be introduced slowly into a running exercise routine. New Balance recommends limiting initial use to 10% of overall running workouts and very gradually increasing training time and distance."

If I get into barefoot running I'm going to start with the walking minimus and use them for a day to day shoe... and then start running in them. I have a feeling that in a year or so, a lot of people who jumped into it with both feet because it's the newest bandwagon are going to be complaining about injuries.

Joeyde

Goldigga, any update on your progress? Looking at the Mr10 myself.

Orando Broom

I don't use Vibram's (The wife does) but I use Nike Free 2.0 (not sure if they can be got in Ireland). I have to say since I started using them I've never once rolled my ankle something I used to do habitually. I find running distances much easier with less fatigue.

It took me close on a year of use before I got up to running on footpaths with them. When I was using Acics my knees would ache after doing even 5k on the path. I find the Nike Frees give me much greater mileage without the aches. I spent a lot of time on treadmills with them building up mileage.

I think they are a great intermediary runner between the conventional sole and the vibram-esque 'free' shoes.

I am planning to progress to the New Balance in the coming months.

Joeyde

Orando Broom wrote: »

I think they are a great intermediary runner between the conventional sole and the vibram-esque 'free' shoes.

I am planning to progress to the New Balance in the coming months.

Im building up mileage in my vibrams very slowly but I want something in between cause I miss the longer runs at this stage. Just looking at the new balance as they seem to be what I'm looking for. I think the Nike frees have a smaller tow box which wouldn't suit me.

Burkatron

Joeyde wrote: »

Im building up mileage in my vibrams very slowly but I want something in between cause I miss the longer runs at this stage. Just looking at the new balance as they seem to be what I'm looking for. I think the Nike frees have a smaller tow box which wouldn't suit me.

Just throwing this out there:
I'm planning on getting a new pair of runners in January. I want to start to transition from Saucony Omni 9's eventually to minimalists. Anyone have recommendations on how to do it?

I like Inov8's progression model from 12mm-9mm-6mm-3mm & 0 but it's costly enough & I'm (perma)broke!! Would you be able to do this with a lower gradient runner & a heel lift so 3mm's plus 6mm heel lift to give you 9mm?

Barry.Oglesby

Red herring alert:

Someone gave me a pair of Reebok zig zaggy giant springy runners a few months back. I didn't want or need them, but they were a gift so I took them. Anyway HUGE sole on these yokes and they look ridiculous. My regular runners were wet one morning- so I went running in these yokes.

Not only did I run my fastest 3k in 3 years, but I also had none of my regular knee pain after running.

Barefoot running has it's place. I believe that place to be on grass or on rubber track.

Wollwead

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Red herring alert:

Someone gave me a pair of Reebok zig zaggy giant springy runners a few months back. I didn't want or need them, but they were a gift so I took them. Anyway HUGE sole on these yokes and they look ridiculous. My regular runners were wet one morning- so I went running in these yokes.

Not only did I run my fastest 3k in 3 years, but I also had none of my regular knee pain after running.

Barefoot running has it's place. I believe that place to be on grass or on rubber track.

+1,000 on this! I have Saucony Kinvaras and VFF Komodo Sports. Both I use for summer outdoor workouts/metcons on grass. If I use either for concrete/tarmac/unforgiveable surface work, lets just say I run the risk of taking a 3 day rest for recovery purposes from all of the unnecessary running related injuries. Grass FTW when it comes to minimalist footwear IMO.

sconhome

Burkatron wrote: »

Just throwing this out there:
I'm planning on getting a new pair of runners in January. I want to start to transition from Saucony Omni 9's eventually to minimalists. Anyone have recommendations on how to do it?

I like Inov8's progression model from 12mm-9mm-6mm-3mm & 0 but it's costly enough & I'm (perma)broke!! Would you be able to do this with a lower gradient runner & a heel lift so 3mm's plus 6mm heel lift to give you 9mm?

Burkatron, the Omni is a 12mm heel to toe profile shoe with a large stability control wedge under the medial side of the shoe.

The best advice I have ever received in relation to minimalism is to treat it as a separate sport altogether. approach it differently and you reduce the risk of injury to yourself. Lots of valid points in the posts previously about strain and over work. The best way to look at the foot is to assume it is like an arm that has been in a cast, the muscles have wasted and are weak.

If you jump straight to minimalism / barefoot without considering the strength of the muscle, you will be injured in jig-time.

I have been wearing a couple of pairs of VFF's for the past year and have done nothing other than wear them as a daily pair of shoes, run for the bus, chase the kids that kind of thing, to get my feet used to the feelings and to strengthen the soft tissues. I have done all my running and racing in my regular running shoes that I'm used to, but wear the barefoot / minimalist as a shoe.

I am now starting to do short runs 500m as a separate training event and I'll build the distance up slowly in my barefoot shoes. I can still continue to train longer distance in my regular shoe but am building my foot strength and distance in minimalist shoes alongside.

Its working. I'm barefooting injury free and still maintaining my fitness in my longer runs.

Even going the iNOV-8 route you have to cut back to build up strength first.

Burkatron

amphkingwest wrote: »

Burkatron, the Omni is a 12mm heel to toe profile shoe with a large stability control wedge under the medial side of the shoe.

The best advice I have ever received in relation to minimalism is to treat it as a separate sport altogether. approach it differently and you reduce the risk of injury to yourself. Lots of valid points in the posts previously about strain and over work. The best way to look at the foot is to assume it is like an arm that has been in a cast, the muscles have wasted and are weak.

If you jump straight to minimalism / barefoot without considering the strength of the muscle, you will be injured in jig-time.

I have been wearing a couple of pairs of VFF's for the past year and have done nothing other than wear them as a daily pair of shoes, run for the bus, chase the kids that kind of thing, to get my feet used to the feelings and to strengthen the soft tissues. I have done all my running and racing in my regular running shoes that I'm used to, but wear the barefoot / minimalist as a shoe.

I am now starting to do short runs 500m as a separate training event and I'll build the distance up slowly in my barefoot shoes. I can still continue to train longer distance in my regular shoe but am building my foot strength and distance in minimalist shoes alongside.

Its working. I'm barefooting injury free and still maintaining my fitness in my longer runs.

Even going the iNOV-8 route you have to cut back to build up strength first.

Good post & some of it is what I've been thinking & what I've (tried to) said previously!

I'm looking at a pair of Saucony Mirage, basically the Kinvara's with a stability bar, they're the best price I could get & I like the idea of the extra arch support.

I'll keep the omni's but would using the Mirage which have a 4mm heel (I think)with a 5mm heel lift be to equivalent to buying a pair of specific 9mm profiled runners like any of the inov8 2 shock zone dealy's (cant think of any models I've seen) or am I way off?

After runs It should be just a matter then of popping out the heel & strolling around in them to get use to them. I'd buy 2 different pairs but as said before I'm broke so am doing everything on the cheap! (don't ask about the quality of shoestring budget hookers & coke )

Detective hat on now::cool: I'm guessing the nickname is to do with amphibian king/base2race in Ballymount??
Someday I want to try your endless pool camera setup to see how much my swimming actually sucks

Edit: 1 more question, (IYO) does the same rule of thumb for sizing minimalists to standard runners apply? Should I be leaving between 1/4-1/2 inch in clearance between my big toe & top of the shoe or should they be snug? I haven't found a definitive answer on this

Barry.Oglesby

amphkingwest wrote: »

Burkatron, the Omni is a 12mm heel to toe profile shoe with a large stability control wedge under the medial side of the shoe.

The best advice I have ever received in relation to minimalism is to treat it as a separate sport altogether. approach it differently and you reduce the risk of injury to yourself. Lots of valid points in the posts previously about strain and over work. The best way to look at the foot is to assume it is like an arm that has been in a cast, the muscles have wasted and are weak.

If you jump straight to minimalism / barefoot without considering the strength of the muscle, you will be injured in jig-time.

I have been wearing a couple of pairs of VFF's for the past year and have done nothing other than wear them as a daily pair of shoes, run for the bus, chase the kids that kind of thing, to get my feet used to the feelings and to strengthen the soft tissues. I have done all my running and racing in my regular running shoes that I'm used to, but wear the barefoot / minimalist as a shoe.

I am now starting to do short runs 500m as a separate training event and I'll build the distance up slowly in my barefoot shoes. I can still continue to train longer distance in my regular shoe but am building my foot strength and distance in minimalist shoes alongside.

Its working. I'm barefooting injury free and still maintaining my fitness in my longer runs.

Even going the iNOV-8 route you have to cut back to build up strength first.

Great post thanks.

sconhome

Burkatron wrote: »

Good post & some of it is what I've been thinking & what I've (tried to) said previously!

I'm looking at a pair of Saucony Mirage, basically the Kinvara's with a stability bar, they're the best price I could get & I like the idea of the extra arch support.

I'll keep the omni's but would using the Mirage which have a 4mm heel (I think)with a 5mm heel lift be to equivalent to buying a pair of specific 9mm profiled runners like any of the inov8 2 shock zone dealy's (cant think of any models I've seen) or am I way off?

After runs It should be just a matter then of popping out the heel & strolling around in them to get use to them. I'd buy 2 different pairs but as said before I'm broke so am doing everything on the cheap! (don't ask about the quality of shoestring budget hookers & coke )

Detective hat on now::cool: I'm guessing the nickname is to do with amphibian king/base2race in Ballymount??
Someday I want to try your endless pool camera setup to see how much my swimming actually sucks

Edit: 1 more question, (IYO) does the same rule of thumb for sizing minimalists to standard runners apply? Should I be leaving between 1/4-1/2 inch in clearance between my big toe & top of the shoe or should they be snug? I haven't found a definitive answer on this

Ok, I'll unravel it a little.

Your right with the name, I'm linked to the store in Oranmore. The advice I give is simply that; advice, to help people through the confusion that is the range of running shoes.

Running shoes are all about heel to toe differentials(HTTD for shortness here). The depth of cushioning will vary but the differential is the main thing.

The traditional running shoe, I'll use burkatron as guinea pig, like the Saucony Omni is a 12mm HTTD shoe. With 12/13mm cushioning at the forefoot and 24/25mm at the heel. This is the depth of the foam & rubber.

The Saucony Mirage is a 4mm HTTD shoe. Basically your foot sits flatter in the shoe. The cushioning is slightly less 10mm forefoot and 14mm at heel. So the shoe will feel slightly less cushioned and your foot 'reads' the surface underneath allowing development of the muscles and nerves in the foot. This is what minimalism is geared towards, increase the awareness of the foot leading to an overall strengthening and conditioning.

The iNOV-8 offer progressive reduction from 9, 6, 3 and 0 HTTD in a very neutral shoe. So if you need the supportive Sauc Omni you need to exercise diligene and caution transitioning to a neutral shoe, more so if you re going minimal. Allow the feet and lower limbs to strengthen.

Barefoot running is 0mm HTTD and only 3/5mm under your foot so you are really aware of the ground. This is extreme but great for your balance, strength, posture etc be very careful developing barefoot running, you really need to allow the body to adapt. As above treat it as a separate sport and you can't go too far wrong.

Hope that helps, and sorry if I have disrupted the thread. I'm normally in A/R/T forum but an happy to help here if I can.

Y

Mossess

Just a side note, the New Balance Minimus are in stock in Limerick Sport Store on William Street.

(Must start dropping the hints at home)

Lantus

The 'average joe' would struggle to achieve any meaningful exercise without some significant development. It's not really a fair analogy