Another NCPS clamping victim

Shane732

As the title suggests I feel victim of NCPS this evening.

To explain the situation:

I was visiting someone in Temple Court, Northwood, Santry this evening. I parked in a visitors parking spot in Temple Court. When I came out to my car I had been clamped.

Apparently even visitors require a permit in Temple Court - this is something I wasn't aware of. The person I was visiting wasn't aware of this fact either.

When I rang NCPS I was just told to read the signs. The sign is the standard sign which states that all cars must have permits etc..... I've never before come across a situation where visitors required permits. I would have thought that the requirement to have permits on visiting cars slightly invalidates the purpose of having parking spots designated as visitor spots! Why not just stick a couple of extra spots here and there?

I've a few issues:

Firstly, to my mind the sign isn't clear enough. They should specifically specify that visitors require permits. It's a complete money making joke.

Second, the person I was visiting maintains that she hasn't got any visitor permits. Where the hell was I meant to get one in that case?

Finally, the fine was €120! That's extortion!

I'm going to appeal the decision. I reckon there is little point in doing this but I'd prefer to cause NCPS the administrational headache of dealing with my appeal as opposed to just letting them take the €120. If (and when) my first appeal fails I will appeal it to the independent body as well.

NCPS are a complete joke.

Needler

Blast them with angle grinder

Guy:Incognito

Shane732 wrote: »

all cars must have permits

Why would you not take that to mean that all cars require permits

I mean it doesnt say "all cars except visitors...."

-Corkie-

I got clamped by them as well last week.I was fairly sickened as well. They are a shower of crooks allright.

sdanseo

Tampering with a vehicle in a public place - an offence under the RTA.

That theory of mine has been showered with shíte and Gardaí will ignore you if you try getting them to do it - but if someone ever has the balls to take them to court then the bottom will surely have to fall right out of this stupid and illegal business practice.

Shane732

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why would you not take that to mean that all cars require permits

I mean it doesnt say "all cars except visitors...."

My assumption (which was apparently incorrect) was that the visitors sign behind the car would have been all that was required.

Am I supposed to pull a permit out of a magicians hat or something?

Unfortunately I didn't have my magicians hat with me.

Guy:Incognito

Shane732 wrote: »

My assumption (which was apparently incorrect) was that the visitors sign behind the car would have been all that was required.

Am I supposed to pull a permit out of a magicians hat or something?

Unfortunately I didn't have my magicians hat with me.

If that was the case though people wouldnt bother thei hole getting permits half the time if they could just ditch it in the visitor spot.

Rather than a magicians hat, you could have used whatever mechanism there s for gettign a visitor permit. Probably easier than a magic hat.

Shane732

-Corkie- wrote: »

I got clamped by them as well last week.I was fairly sickened as well. They are a shower of crooks allright.

€120 is complete extortion.

Anan1

Shane732 wrote: »

The sign is the standard sign which states that all cars must have permits etc.....

There are times when you guys make me laugh. Honestly, which part of 'ALL VEHICLES PARKED IN TEMPLE COURT MUST DISPLAY A VALID PERMIT' did you not understand?

-Corkie-

Shane732 wrote: »

€120 is complete extortion.

I know and people here will tell you thats your wrong until they get clamped some day themselves and then the opinion will change..:)

Shane732

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If that was the case though people wouldnt bother thei hole getting permits half the time if they could just ditch it in the visitor spot.

Rather than a magicians hat, you could have used whatever mechanism there s for gettign a visitor permit. Probably easier than a magic hat.

Are permits not an annual/ bi-annual thing?

If there was free parking for X number of hours in the visitors spots it would solve the issue you mentioned above.

I still don't know how you go about getting visitors permit in Temple Court. NCPS weren't able to tell me and the person I was visiting didn't know either. So it looks like a magicians hat is the only option.

Shane732

Anan1 wrote: »

There are times when you guys make me laugh. Honestly, which part of 'ALL VEHICLES PARKED IN TEMPLE COURT MUST DISPLAY A VALID PERMIT' did you not understand?

Clearly not or else this thread would be rather pointless.

robtri

shane.. I feel your pain.. I would have done the same.. parked in a visitor spot..
like how the feck is a visitor supposed to have a parking permit... if he had one, he wouldnt need to park in a visitor spot

challenge that one

Anan1

Shane732 wrote: »

I still don't know how you go about getting visitors permit in Temple Court. NCPS weren't able to tell me and the person I was visiting didn't know either. So it looks like a magicians hat is the only option.

The management company issue permits.

Guy:Incognito

Shane732 wrote: »

Are permits not an annual/ bi-annual thing?
.

For a visitor? I doubt it. The idea of a visitor is they are infequent.

The person that owns the apartment may be able to get a visitor permit that doesnt expire or somesuch.

Shane732

Anan1 wrote: »

There are times when you guys make me laugh. Honestly, which part of 'ALL VEHICLES PARKED IN TEMPLE COURT MUST DISPLAY A VALID PERMIT' did you not understand?

Also could you tell me where I was meant to get a permit from?

The person I was visiting didn't have one and there was no machine to dispatch a permit......

Please do enlighten me.

Shane732

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

For a visitor? I doubt it. The idea of a visitor is they are infequent.

The person that owns the apartment may be able to get a visitor permit that doesnt expire or somesuch.

No I meant the permit for the actual parking spaces as opposed to the visitors spots...... As in you said that people (presumably residents) wouldn't bother getting permits (presumably for themselves) if there was no need for a permit in the visitors spot.

unkel

The visitor sign is misleading. I would base any appeal on that. Best of luck with it!

Got clamped myself a few years ago by NCPS two days before Christmas in what I thought was a public (free) car park at a train station 15 miles outside of Dublin. Once I saw my car was clamped, I spotted the NCPS signs alright. It was late, dark and wet and I had 3 very young kids with me who needed to go to bed and not wait for ages for the car to be de-clamped.

When the NCPS guy (young lad in his early to mid 20s from EE) finally arrived about an hour after I paid the €120 fee and saw the 3 tired young kids he looked embarrassed and ashamed of his job. He said sorry and all I could do was be nice to him

-Chris-

I would have pulled in, seen the sign and called the person I was visiting to ask if I needed a permit.

If they told me "no", I'd have parked as you did. If I came out and was clamped I'd have expected their assistance in getting the car de-clamped.
I'd also expect them to bollock their landlord/management company out of it for not informing them of the correct procedure for visitor parking.

I know that doesn't really help, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't think you're going to be successful appealing the fine as the wording of the sign is fairly clear. However I do think that someone other than you shares a large portion of the blame for the fine, and if you wanted someone to "hassle", I'd certainly suggest the landlord/management company would be a good place to start.

My €0.02

Anan1

robtri wrote: »

shane.. I feel your pain.. I would have done the same.. parked in a visitor spot..
like how the feck is a visitor supposed to have a parking permit... if he had one, he wouldnt need to park in a visitor spot

challenge that one

Shane732 wrote: »

Also could you tell me where I was meant to get a permit from?

The person I was visiting didn't have one and there was no machine to dispatch a permit......

Please do enlighten me.

Come on, now! The apartment owner can apply for visitor permits from the management company. That they didn't do so, and that the OP didn't read/understand a perfectly clear sign is hardly NCPS's fault. I've seen threads where people have a genuine grievance against clampers, but this is just ridiculous.:D

wonski

You need to call the number on the sign, and register as a visitor.
The sign only says to de-clamp call the number, which is obviously money making practice.
It is a voicemail, but they call back if any information is missing or incorrect.
If they were at least good company, they would put that information on the sign, but they prefer to steal 120 from drivers who are not familiar with the system...Shame.
I don't think you will get your 120 back, they will throw it into the bin straight away, sending you only a polite letter.
Good solicitor could fight with this one, but not worth the money, probably the only reason this scam is working .

VolvoMan

Shane732 wrote: »

€120 is complete extortion.

Of course it is.

unkel wrote: »

The visitor sign is misleading. I would base any appeal on that. Best of luck with it!

I launched an appeal over a sign that was misleading and was successful. Just be really thorough with your letter, include photos etc.

wonski

Anan1 wrote: »

Come on, now! The apartment owner can apply for visitor permits from the management company. That they didn't do so, and that the OP didn't read/understand a perfectly clear sign is hardly NCPS's fault. I've seen threads where people have a genuine grievance against clampers, but this is just ridiculous.:D

Why NCPS won't include the info about registering as a visitor then?
It is definitely their fault, and they know what they are doing.
If you are not familiar with the areas where these parkings operate, You don't know what to do, and then pay 120.

Guy:Incognito

wonski wrote: »

You need to call the number on the sign, and register as a visitor.
The sign only says to de-clamp call the number, which is obviously money making practice.
It is a voicemail, but they call back if any information is missing or incorrect.
If they were at least good company, they would put that information on the sign, but they prefer to steal 120 from drivers who are not familiar with the system...Shame.
I don't think you will get your 120 back, they will throw it into the bin straight away, sending you only a polite letter.
Good solicitor could fight with this one, but not worth the money, probably the only reason this scam is working .

So if you see the sign saying you have to have a permit or you will be clamped and its not immediatly obvious how to get a permit, do you think the clever thing to do is park there anyway

Anan1

wonski wrote: »

Why NCPS won't include the info about registering as a visitor then?
It is definitely their fault, and they know what they are doing.
If you are not familiar with the areas where these parkings operate, You don't know what to do, and then pay 120.

The management company issue permits, and contract NCPS to clamp cars without permits. The apartment owner should have applied to the MC for visitor permits, and then given one to the OP. The sign clearly said that a permit was required, the OP ignored the sign, and was clamped. How can this possibly be NCPS's fault?

newkidonblock

It is illegal to clamp a car
Whwn my daughter was clamped, we went to the local garda station to inform them we were cutting the clamp, they wished us well, and we informed apcoa of our intentions and gave them our name address ph no etc, they still have not contacted us 2 months later.
If you look at the notice on your car and on any signs they will not quote any legislation allowing them to clamp.
If you get a parking ticket / clamped on a public road, the notice will refer to the road traffic act under whoch you have been clamped etc.

Anan1

newkidonblock wrote: »

It is illegal to clamp a car
Whwn my daughter was clamped, we went to the local garda station to inform them we were cutting the clamp, they wished us well, and we informed apcoa of our intentions and gave them our name address ph no etc, they still have not contacted us 2 months later.
If you look at the notice on your car and on any signs they will not quote any legislation allowing them to clamp.
If you get a parking ticket / clamped on a public road, the notice will refer to the road traffic act under whoch you have been clamped etc.

The sign clearly states that the car park is private property, and sets out the rules for parking there. Legality aside, is it not just common decency to respect the owners wishes when parking on their property? Would you park in someones driveway if they didn't want you to? Because it's essentially the same thing.

Guy:Incognito

newkidonblock wrote: »

It is illegal to clamp a car.

Its also ignorant to use someone elses property or service and not abide their rules.

wonski

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So if you see the sign saying you have to have a permit or you will be clamped and its not immediatly obvious how to get a permit, do you think the clever thing to do is park there anyway

No, but I know apartments blocks that are far from centre of anything, and the closest place to park your car safely without permit is like 3o minutes walk. All I want is a clear info that if you want to park, call the number. All these signs say is get out of here or you will get clamp.

Oh, and you only get 2 visitor permits, so you need to walk down to give it to the driver every time someone visits you. It is ridiculous, and money making practice.

Anan1

wonski wrote: »

No, but I know apartments blocks that are far from centre of anything, and the closest place to park your car safely without permit is like 3o minutes walk. All I want is a clear info that if you want to park, call the number. All these signs say is get out of here or you will get clamp.

Oh, and you only get 2 visitor permits, so you need to walk down to give it to the driver every time someone visits you. It is ridiculous, and money making practice.

All NCPS deal with is clamping. If you have an issue with permits then speak to the management company. They own the land, they issue parking permits, and they employ NCPS to clamp cars parked without permits.

Absurdum

buddy: hey Shane, wanna come over and visit?

Shane: np bro, see ya soon!

buddy: k, just gotta post this application for a visitor permit to the management company, then wait for them to process it and send it out to me

Shane: ...

buddy: ya it's really cool, I pay them €x,000 per annum for this **** yo

Shane: ...

...3 weeks later

buddy: hey Shane, the permit's here, see you in a bit!

buddy: Shane? SHANE???



Ludicrous situation, clamping like this is extortion plain and simple. Grind that ****er to bits.

TrollHammaren

Might seem crazy, but do you know anyone with lockpicks and knowledge to use them? It's perfectly legal to remove an NCPS clamp, as long as you don't damage the clamp. Otherwise, you cut cut the lock off, and if they come knocking you can offer to pay for a new lock.

The sooner these thugs are challenged the better.

wonski

Anan1 wrote: »

All NCPS deal with is clamping. If you have an issue with permits then speak to the management company. They own the land, they issue parking permits, and they employ NCPS to clamp cars parked without permits.

No, they also let you park the car if you call the 0818... number, and leave your details (registration, time, and location). This is fair system, all i complain about is lack of information.
This is option 3 when you call them, register as a visitor.

Anan1

Absurdum wrote: »

buddy: hey Shane, wanna come over and visit?

Shane: np bro, see ya soon!

buddy: k, just gotta post this application for a visitor permit to the management company, then wait for them to process it and send it out to me

Shane: ...

buddy: ya it's really cool, I pay them €x,000 per annum for this **** yo

Shane: ...

...3 weeks later

buddy: hey Shane, the permit's here, see you in a bit!

buddy: Shane? SHANE???

Ludicrous situation, clamping like this is extortion plain and simple. Grind that ****er to bits.

It's a silly thread, but this is the most ridiculous post yet. Who moves into an apartment and never expects to have visitors?

robbie_998

OP

if your car is still clamped can i recommend taking the wheel off ?

your still legally allowed to amend your vehicle as you wish !

and ncps cant do anything about it either !

Anan1

wonski wrote: »

No, they also let you park the car if you call the 0818... number, and leave your details (registration, time, and location). This is fair system, all i complain about is lack of information.
This is option 3 when you call them, register as a visitor.

Getting the permit is really the apartment owners responsibility, they should have had one ready for the OP when they called over. Or at least told them that they couldn't park there without one. Still doesn't make the sign any less clear, though - no permit = get clamped.

sillymoo

Apcoea operate the clamping system where I live - visitors can park in a visitors spot for 2 hours without getting clamped. You must ring Apcoea thereafter and get covered for 24hours. Its a good system but has hiccups sometimes. Signs are very clear. If you are used to such a system I can see how you would get caught out in Temple Court. I would have done the same as you OP - purely as I would have presumed that it would be like where I live I suppose its up to each management company the rules they wasn't to implement. I would be very peeved if the management company /landlord did not inform us that we needed permits to park in visitors spots.

wonski

Anan1 wrote: »

Getting the permit is really the apartment owners responsibility, they should have had one ready for the OP when they called over. Or at least told them that they couldn't park there without one. Still doesn't make the sign any less clear, though - no permit = get clamped.

Can't argue more about this.
Company fails to provide information about registering as a visitor and is charging 120 euro for failing to register. How is that OK?
My friend got clamped while moving in, How would you move in without permit? Walking with your boxes for 20 minutes each way?
He did not appeal, why should he, the sign was clear!

David09

It appears to be a sly means of extortion on the part of NCPS.

Sticking a sign up saying "visitor" would lead one to believe that this is a parking spot allocated to those who don't have a permit, ie residents and that those visitor spaces are excluded from clamping.

Anan1

wonski wrote: »

Can't argue more about this.
Company fails to provide information about registering as a visitor and is charging 120 euro for failing to register. How is that OK?
My friend got clamped while moving in, How would you move in without permit? Walking with your boxes for 20 minutes each way?
He did not appeal, why should he, the sign was clear!

The management company own the car park, they can run it as they see fit. Visitor permits are available to the apartment owner, as they're a member of the MC. You seem to feel that the OP should have had some way of applying for a visitor permit on the spot, but apparently that's not how that MC do things. Their sign was quite clear - had the OP respected the landowners wishes then they wouldn't have been clamped.

David09 wrote: »

It appears to be a sly means of extortion on the part of NCPS.

Sticking a sign up saying "visitor" would lead one to believe that this is a parking spot allocated to those who don't have a permit, ie residents and that those visitor spaces are excluded from clamping.

The sign clearly says 'ALL VEHICLES PARKED IN TEMPLE COURT'.

robbie_998

................

robbie_998 wrote: »

OP

if your car is still clamped can i recommend taking the wheel off ?

your still legally allowed to amend your vehicle as you wish !

and ncps cant do anything about it either !

How would he get the wheel off without getting the clamp off first?

David09

Anan1 wrote: »

The sign clearly says 'ALL VEHICLES PARKED IN TEMPLE COURT'.

Yes, but another says "VISITORS". This itself is deceptive. For transparency it should read "VISITORS WITH PERMIT". Then the op would have nobody to blame.

robbie_998

RoverJames wrote: »

................


How would he get the wheel off without getting the clamp off first?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHwKLhIpa94

Anan1

David09 wrote: »

Yes, but another says "VISITORS". This itself is deceptive. For transparency it should read "VISITORS WITH PERMIT". Then the op would have nobody to blame.

Honestly, that's clutching at straws. How could 'ALL VEHICLES' not include visitors vehicles?:)

Atlantic Dawn

TrollHammaren wrote: »

Might seem crazy, but do you know anyone with lockpicks and knowledge to use them? It's perfectly legal to remove an NCPS clamp, as long as you don't damage the clamp. Otherwise, you cut cut the lock off, and if they come knocking you can offer to pay for a new lock.

The sooner these thugs are challenged the better.

You can cut the clamp to pieces as it's not legal to disable a mechanically propelled vehicle without a licence. No person has ever or will ever be convicted or charged in Ireland with interfering with a privately owned clamp despite there being hundreds of cases of it happening with photographic evidence of the car being parked with the clamp visible. A court case which will completely ruin their business is the last thing these companies want.

Needler

Anan1 wrote: »

Honestly, that's clutching at straws. How could 'ALL VEHICLES' not include visitors vehicles?:)

Since when do visitors need parking permits? I suppose when you ride a beour you make her fill in and sign a consent form too. Bureaucracy FTL

I imagine a 335i would have locking nuts on the alloys Robbie so that wonderful method wouldn't work, no room for the locking nut key, the socket and the wheel brace.

Anan1

Needler wrote: »

Since when do visitors need parking permits? I suppose when you ride a beour you make her fill in and sign a consent form too. Bureaucracy FTL

Since whenever the car park owners decide they do. If they only want to let blue cars park on their land then that's their right. If you don't like it then park somewhere else.

robbie_998

RoverJames wrote: »

I imagine a 335i would have locking nuts on the alloys Robbie so that wonderful method wouldn't work, no room for the locking nut key, the socket and the wheel brace.

fine !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqV5vJdH-TA

Needler

Anan1 wrote: »

Since whenever the car park owners decide they do. If they only want to let blue cars park on their land then that's their right. If you don't like it then park somewhere else.

If they don't want blue cars they shouldn't let them in to park there in the first place


Things wouldn't go too well for me if I put up a sign "no people who live in caravans allowed". and if any showed up I'd throw em into a dark room and lock the door until they paid me some sum of money I decide they could afford.

Paparazzo

Anan1 wrote: »

Honestly, that's clutching at straws. How could 'ALL VEHICLES' not include visitors vehicles?:)

How would you display a visitor permit on a motorcycle?