How to improve micro?

godspal

I am starting to play high-gold and platinum players and micro is letting me down something awful. Any tips for improving?

Decerto

Dargleins micro trainer, search for it in customs, so sick, covers about 80% of the common micro situations in the game for all races

Other that, micro comes kinda naturally from playing alot

Jhax

I've played 1,000 games in my 1v1 career and I'm only now starting to get the hang of micro. I've been A moving all this time which is why I haven't advanced in skill. I think the first thing you should be focusing on at your level is unit positioning. Spread your units out before a fight and make sure to use mana on units effectively. BTW what race are you?

RoyalMarine

wtf is mana?!?!?!

UnholyGregor

wouldnt worry about micro til your at least diamond league, really. Macro is what really sets the lower leagues apart from the higher ones. Of course, its always a good idea to get a good concave when fighting, and try connect the banes with marines instead of the tanks, but dont bog yourself down with all the details until you got a good grip of game mechanics,

Xios

I've said this to Saini a lot.

PLAY 4V4's!!!!!

You'll learn how to use different unit compositions and above, learn the strenghts and weakness of those units. Saini figured that his zealot/sentry/stalker mix could take on a lot more zerglings than he previously though, just by microing his forcefields correctly.

Like, in 4v4's it's fun to just go all infestors, or all lings, not in monobattles, but you will learn the parameters of each unit that way.

UnholyGregor

4v4's can be fun, but 1v1 is by far the best enviorment to improve in sc2.
If the only reason you're playing 4v4 is to learn the 'parameters' of each unit, you might as well just play micro tester or some other custom, and save yourself the cheesiness of team games.

RoyalMarine

^^

another player who thinks 1v1's are the only real part of sc2......

damn some of you people really grind my gears....

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It is.
do you think hitting a ball against a wall with a racket is tennis?

Columc

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

It is.
do you think hitting a ball against a wall with a racket is tennis?

no its squash!

RoyalMarine

Columc wrote: »

no its squash!

game set and match

UnholyGregor

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

do you think hitting a ball against a wall with a racket is tennis?

No, its a waste of time, just like 4v4, for the purpose of improving.

freepower

UnholyGregor wrote: »

No, its a waste of time, just like 4v4, for the purpose of improving.

... improving at 1v1 you mean. :P

RoyalMarine

UnholyGregor wrote: »

No, its a waste of time, just like 4v4, for the purpose of improving.

thats complete and total bollocks.

Im not a great player. im struggling between silver/gold in 1v1.
in 2v2, im diamond.
in 3v3, im diamond.
in 4v4, im diamond/masters.

since i started playing 4v4's, my macro and micro have improved to the point where im beating gold/plat players on the 1v1 ladder with no real difficulty. before i played 4v4, i was getting my ass kicked on a regular basis.

between saini and xios, they have given me so much help in 4v4's when we play together and its improved my game 100 fold.

so to say it again,
thats complete and total bollocks.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you would have improved alot quicker if you'd just played 1v1's instead of farting about with team games

RoyalMarine

i doubt that very much. by playing team games, i see how my team mates and opponents react to everything differently. i get to see 7 players perspectives in replays. if i played 1v1's, then i only get to see my own and my sole enemy's perspective.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

that... doesn't make sense

RoyalMarine

how does it not make sense?

i play 4v4... (thats 8 players in a game...)
in a 1v1, there are only 2 players...

in the 4v4, i get to see how all 8 players perform and build
in the 1v1, i only see myself and my opponent.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

because each time you're only looking at one player. whether it's a seperate opponent in seven 1v1 games or 1 4v4 game doesnt matter except that 4v4 is ****ing retarded and 1v1 strats don't neccesarily work in it.

RoyalMarine

this is not about 1v1 strats. its about improving micro.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

gold players dont need micro, the reason they're gold players is because they're bad at macro. and if you focus your time on team games, yeah you'll get a bit of macro practice but you wont be working on viable builds or game plans that can work in 1v1.

UnholyGregor

basically what the above has said. All that time you sunk into team games will serve very little meaning 1v1, theyre totally different games. fyi, master 3v3 or 4v4 takes about as much skill as platinum 1v1.

If you get two people who have never palyed sc2 before, and one plays 500 4v4s, and the other plays 200 1v1s, the 1v1 player will destroy the 4v4 player every time, if that makes sense.

simply put, team games are a fun way to play sc2 with your friends, but if you want to get better at the game, play 1v1, as team games dont mean **** 1v1 since you dont have other players to lean on. In fact team games can have a detrimental affecct on 1v1 performance in some scenarios. For example, imaging your ally gets the detection every 2v2. You start playing 1v1, and lose to a dt rush, since you dont have detection worked into your build, and you don't know how to scout it 1v1.

you can learn some things in team games, but ultimately, 1v1 is far superior for improving in every aspect.

NeoSlicerZ

You need to micro in 4v4? lol. Sure use team games to practice macro but micro, not really unless you mass blink stalker and nothing else.

IRL_Sinister

This thread makes no sense

RoyalMarine

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

You need to micro in 4v4? lol. Sure use team games to practice macro but micro, not really unless you mass blink stalker and nothing else.

i love how you mention blink stalker as the only unit that needs mirco...

Columc

RoyalMarine wrote: »

i love how you mention blink stalker as the only unit that needs mirco...

In a 4v4 enviroment, blink stalkers would are the only heavily induced micro units, everything else is just macro the ****.

NeoSlicerZ

RoyalMarine wrote: »

i love how you mention blink stalker as the only unit that needs mirco...

Even basic unit repositioning is pretty much impossible in a 4v4 due to lack of space and how fast **** dies.

RoyalMarine

i mirco my roach very well in 4v4s the same as someone would micro blink stalkers.

NeoSlicerZ

RoyalMarine wrote: »

i mirco my roach very well in 4v4s the same as someone would micro blink stalkers.

roach "micro"

godspal

Stopping jacking my threads! i don't want another closed!

as for weather or not gold players need to know micro. As I outlined in my OP I was playing high-gold, low-plat players (emphasis on the was, after a disastrous weekend I have had to work my way back playing low gold - mid gold.)

And the question I asked is how to improve my micro. When I was playing platinum players (even played 1 diamond, which made my day) I was losing to very early aggression such as Marine/Maurder and Hellion Pushes from Terran, and Zealot/Stalker aggression from Protoss. Even when I amassed more units in the early game, cutting my supply, I was still losing a lot of my army, preventing me from counter attacking, and therefore making my investment worth while. Hence the question: "How do I improve my micro?" I did not ask "Is micro important in the lower leagues?"

And I know my macro needs improvement, and I know my in game decision making needs improvement, and I know my game awareness needs improvement. But one thing at a time.

EDIT: And why Xios suggested 4 v 4 is because when you have three other players backing you up, you get to focus on one aspect of the game that you think needs improvement. However, for me, I find playing team games are only a supplement to 1v1 games, and can help you improve aspects of your game, but should not be relied upon.

UnholyGregor

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

roach "micro"

Protoss micro= 1a

NeoSlicerZ

What you should be thinking is
1. What do I micro. Prioritize, e.g with hellions, block ramps with queens, split zerglings for surrounds and so they don't conga line. vs Protoss, lings on stalkers before surrounding zealots.

2. How do I inflict most dps, situation dependent, upgrade dependent.

More advanced stuff.

3. Rotating units away so the ball forms an arc. The latest game I played vs Noodled shows pretty good micro on his part wrt getting in close but he still attacked in a ball rather than a broad line which allowed me to setup huge arcs with blink.

and most importantly, know how much micro do you have to do really. Watch FPVs of players with good micro. That'll teach you more than anything.

NeoSlicerZ

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Protoss micro= 1a

You forgot ffffffff,b,b,b,b,b,b,b,b

UnholyGregor

godspal wrote: »

Stopping jacking my threads! i don't want another closed!

as for weather or not gold players need to know micro. As I outlined in my OP I was playing high-gold, low-plat players (emphasis on the was, after a disastrous weekend I have had to work my way back playing low gold - mid gold.)

And the question I asked is how to improve my micro. When I was playing platinum players (even played 1 diamond, which made my day) I was losing to very early aggression such as Marine/Maurder and Hellion Pushes from Terran, and Zealot/Stalker aggression from Protoss. Even when I amassed more units in the early game, cutting my supply, I was still losing a lot of my army, preventing me from counter attacking, and therefore making my investment worth while. Hence the question: "How do I improve my micro?" I did not ask "Is micro important in the lower leagues?"

And I know my macro needs improvement, and I know my in game decision making needs improvement, and I know my game awareness needs improvement. But one thing at a time.

EDIT: And why Xios suggested 4 v 4 is because when you have three other players backing you up, you get to focus on one aspect of the game that you think needs improvement. However, for me, I find playing team games are only a supplement to 1v1 games, and can help you improve aspects of your game, but should not be relied upon.

tbh its really hard to give you advice without rplays to refer to,, so im gonna have to generalise my answer a good bit.

ususally, if your opponent is on 1base past the 8min mark its gonna be an all in. You should sack an overlord at 6 mins to see if its fast tech or mass units, and if its terran, to se if hes building a cc in his main.

Once you are sure its gonna be an all in, you gotta cut drones at around 30ish, as this will ensure you have more income that your opponent, optimally 16workers par mineral line. Once you reach this stage, only one thing matters, surviving. Dont worry about upgrades, and tech, just make whatever is necessary to crush the one push that will happen, once you do this, its game over.

Against terran ground all ins, throw up 2 spines and mas speedlings and banes. Skip a round of larva injects to spread creep, to ensure your banelings hit home.
If hes ground banshee rush, go t2 asap and rush mutas, throw up 1 or 2 spores aroung d your mineral lines, and build one or two extra queens.

Protoss all ins can usually be held easily with spines and roach/ling, and if its some void ray rush, just get hydras and queens to defend. If its a techa ll in, the best thing to do is drone like crazy, as 90% of the time, there wil be no ground army to worry about. This way, even if the tech cheese does some damage, you will still be miles ahead.

Still ,micro isn't that important in these situations, the only time you need micro below diamond level is splitting drones against splash damage units, and getting a transfuse on a queen of spine.

It seems like your scouting and responses are letting you down mostly. Remember, if your opponent doesnt expand 8mins in, all you gotta do is not die.

PS: as zerg, its important to remember one thing after you beat an all in attack like this, ''when you're ahead, get more ahead.'',as artosis sais. Never try to end the game as zerg (before 4bases anyway), its very easy to fall into the trap of defending an all in, and sending tonnes of roahces and lings at your opponents expo to try end the game, this is a massive trap for zerg palyers, as your push will often fail, and then the games pretty much even, losing the huge econimic lead you had.

The best thing zerg can do after defending a big attack is making mass drones, and expanding. You know you're ahead, so why risk your lead and try end the game prematurely? When ahead, get more ahead, you really gotta tell yourself this over and over as zerg, as its so tempting to try kill your opponent after his attack fails, but 99% of the time, you're just digging yourself into a hole.

godspal

@UnHolyGregor took your advice, which is working a peach. But my games are getting extremely long. 30-50 mins. God I hate turtle-ling.

UnholyGregor

godspal wrote: »

@UnHolyGregor took your advice, which is working a peach. But my games are getting extremely long. 30-50 mins. God I hate turtle-ling.

Glad to help, also, as a zerg, you should love when yoor opponent turtles, just take every base on the map and make millions of drones. its zerg heaven"

and 30 mins games are exceptionally good for improvement in all aspects of the game.

Lanaier

I see players who are Masters in 4v4 etc but Bronze in 1v1 A LOT.

Just saying.

Team games are great fun though.

Xios

It's very frantic at some points, it's great for all the extremes of practicing, but will impact your core skills and strategies.

A strategy i would use is 9 ovi, 15 hatch, 17 pool, roach warren asap/same time gas, then roach till you win. Great practice for roach micro against all forms of ground units.

UnholyGregor

micro for people below master league is an excuse for their lack of macro and strategy.
S**tty players try to find comfort in how well they control those 4 marines and 6 scv's, hiding from the fact that they havnt got a clue what theyre doing, or why.

It takes infinitely more skill to play a 30 min game than a 5min one. anyone who tries to tell you otherwise hasnt got a clue what theyre talking about.

If you're below master 1v1, dont worry about micro.
And if you want to improve, dont play team games, they really are a waste of time in that respect.
Take it from someone whos master 1v1 2v2 3v3 and 4v4.
2v2 3v3 and 4v4 are novelties, a nice way to take a break from the real game, that is 1v1. But ultimately, they are utter bul****

UnholyGregor

Xios wrote: »

will impact your core skills and strategies......

....roach till you win. Great practice for roach micro against all forms of ground units.

yes, cos roach all ins in 4v4 are a great way to improve..... lmao @ everyone who takes team games seriously

Tenger

UnholyGregor wrote: »

.......It takes infinitely more skill to play a 30 min game than a 5min one. anyone who tries to tell you otherwise hasnt got a clue what theyre talking about.......

Well using that rationale my epic bronze league 40-50 mins long game make me a top player!!!:D

UnholyGregor

Tenger wrote: »

Well using that rationale my epic bronze league 40-50 mins long game make me a top player!!!:D

well, still team games, so theyre a total waste of time, as i have said repeatedly...

Kirby

3v3 and 4v4 is brainless.....but 2v2 has some really really interesting play. If you youtube some high level 2v2 matches some of the strats are brilliant. Two players working together as opposed to just massing units and A-moving.

Lanaier

Look at it this way.

The game is balanced for 1v1.
All those balance changes that come with patches were made with 1v1 in mind.

This is also the reason why you don't see 4v4 Pro games.

Grimebox

Lanaier wrote: »

Look at it this way.

The game is balanced for 1v1.
All those balance changes that come with patches were made with 1v1 in mind.

This is also the reason why you don't see 4v4 Pro games.

Reapers were actually nerfed (factory needed now) because they were way to strong in early game 2v2

UnholyGregor

no, they were nerfed, cos they were too good 1v1. and zerg couldnt deal with nitro pack reapers early game

NeoSlicerZ

Lulz, I have visions of MVP or a decent ex BW terran using speed reapers TvZ. Like, 6+ speed vultures in your base with a perfect transition into a hard counter to the zerg's counter.

As for improving micro, you need to improve your hand speed and accuracy. I recommend Osu.... or playing Protoss for a while and 4gating every matchup.

NeoSlicerZ

Lulz, I have visions of MVP or a decent ex BW terran using speed reapers TvZ. Like, 6+ speed vultures in your base with a perfect transition into a hard counter to the zerg's counter.

As for improving micro, you need to improve your hand speed and accuracy. I recommend Osu.... or playing Protoss for a while and 4gating every matchup.

Laisurg

RoyalMarine wrote: »

thats complete and total bollocks.

Im not a great player. im struggling between silver/gold in 1v1.
in 2v2, im diamond.
in 3v3, im diamond.
in 4v4, im diamond/masters.

since i started playing 4v4's, my macro and micro have improved to the point where im beating gold/plat players on the 1v1 ladder with no real difficulty. before i played 4v4, i was getting my ass kicked on a regular basis.

between saini and xios, they have given me so much help in 4v4's when we play together and its improved my game 100 fold.

so to say it again,
thats complete and total bollocks.

To be honest I'd agree with unholygregor, team games really do come down to cheese and ridiculous unit comps and it's generally a bit unbalanced like when you mix in tanks with a death ball it's pretty much impossible to do anything about it a lot of the time unless you and your partner are flying ahead economically. And I've played more 2v2 than anything else as well but the dodgey unit mixes just get annoying after a while. I also never improved at all from 2v2, I've improved more from 10 1v1 games than 100 2v2s.

ZombieV

If your long-term goal is to improve in 1v1s, then obviously playing 1v1s is the best way to go around it.

HOWEVER,

If you're anything like me, and don't have the attention span to mass same format ladder games, team matches are actually a great way to improve your mechanics and execution, if you approach it with that in mind. Obviously if you're going to cannon rush or do some cheesy zealot/marauder bs or whatever it's not going to help you all that much, but you can drill at least some of your standard 1v1 build orders in team games pretty well, and the fact that you're going to face all sorts of crazy rushes might help your ability to react and transition out of standard builds that transfers well into solo games.

Obviously you can't go for a reaper expand or a 15 hatch in 3v3s or something, but standard safe openings like 14p13g or 3rax expand or 1base speedlot archon etc are reasonably strong in team games; and it's not like the skillset for basic mechanics in team games is somehow different from 1v1 matches - you just have to be willing to work on it, instead of trying to grab some cheesy wins.

That said, there isn't really any other way to improve micro than by playing more matches. With the way SC2 AI works, micro comes down more to your understanding of the game and positioning than actual mechanical accuracy, anyway - with a few exceptions of course. Your best bet is to review replays of engagements that you feel you could have handled better, identify what are your most common mistakes, then try and avoid these mistakes in similar situations. I know I'm not very helpful, but that's just how it is

michaelyou

you can play micro maps, and in general play alot, like 8-10 hours a day and ur fingers will improve in speed