dog JUST bit a child

Shanao

I remember my brother being nipped on the nose when younger because he blew into our collie's ear, which any dog owner knows, dogs do not like. Did the dog get put down for that? No, and why should she have been? It was no different than me punching him for annoying me.
We're far too quick to blame the dogs in this country. Desensitizing is the thing here, and a good behaviourist will help out with that.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

a nip is not a bite?!?!

In reality no it isn't. Dogs can snap - where they deliberately miss. Nip - as they would in play or when correcting a pup.

A bite is different as it is a move of last resort. As an animal if you are in a confrontational situation you avoid biting because there is no guarantee that you will win. You could get injured & be unable to hunt. So even wild animals never bite without a very good reason.

Last night my little fella got threatened by a local Collie. It happens often but this time he decided that he had to stand his ground & there was an almighty set to with all the usual growling, snarling & snapping of teeth. I knew that it was just posturing & neither dog had a mark on them.

Needler

Whats this ridiculous idea that the dog should be put down over this? Fecking mad tbh. If it wasn't an oh so precious CHILD that got nipped there wouldn't even be a thread about it i'd say

givee

why do u think the dog bit me then?ive always wondered why he did that particular day as he was used to me walking by the house evey day.i would have understood if i was on his territory but i was on the opposite side of the road!

DBB

givee wrote: »

why do u think the dog bit me then?ive always wondered why he did that particular day as he was used to me walking by the house evey day.i would have understood if i was on his territory but i was on the opposite side of the road!

I'd imagine the dog's level of frustration at seeing you pass his house yet again exceeded his inhibition to attack on this occasion... if a dog is going to be aggressive to passers-by, they tend to be more aggressive towards other dogs or people that they see passing their house every day, as their frustration builds each time until it reaches a stage where the dog just can't rein it in any more.
As for you not being on his territory, I'd suggest that dog, like many, does not define his territory the same way humans do with fences, walls, hedges and roads. Once you're in view of his house, it's likely he considers you to be on his patch.
OP, there is a very good and reasonably priced behaviourist in Ennis... Bev Truss of Pet Problems. A Google search will find you her website. Putting this dog to sleep given the info u gave us seems a bit extreme at this stage.

givee

oh well there was method in his madness then that put a stop to me walkin that direction since,poor dog!!

Noodleworm

givee wrote: »

why do u think the dog bit me then?ive always wondered why he did that particular day as he was used to me walking by the house evey day.i would have understood if i was on his territory but i was on the opposite side of the road!

Dogs have a different idea of territory, I'm having a nightmare with my dogs barking at the windows or the gates everytime people walk by or a car pulls in across the road, they get uneasy if it looks like anyone is approaching the house.

Its seems unlikely that the OPs dog was just playing , and then suddenly nipped. More like the dog just didn't want to be a approached and the kid didn't know to look for warning signs and did anyway. You should always teach your kids to ask before petting a dog, and to let the dog approach you, don't try to pet a dog thats shying away.

My first memory is of being bitten by a dog, a small terrier, I was 3 and saw the dog and I love dogs (still do of course ) so i got excited and ran over to it and bent down to pet it and it bit me on the face! drew blood etc

Looking back as an adult I know that i had actually run up to a dog that didnt know me and cornered it - its only escape was blocked by me with walls either side and the dog was literally standing beside the dog. I had also suddenly stretched my arm out to its head. It probably thought I was going to hit it or something (my rescued dog was afraid of being petted on the head when i got him first he even wet himself when i raised my hand to pet him on the head!). My family never kept dogs so i had no knowledge of how to behave around dogs.

Also the dog was loose on the street and its owner should not really have let it out with such young children playing on the road.

A nip is not a bite, its just not comparable, I`d even feel bad about the dog being put down for biting me in the face lol - i`d rather it be sent to a farm or made sure it was kept away from children. Maybe I`m too soft

Noodleworm

Noodleworm wrote: »

Dogs have a different idea of territory, I'm having a nightmare with my dogs barking at the windows or the gates everytime people walk by or a car pulls in across the road, they get uneasy if it looks like anyone is approaching the house.

whenever they look uneasy distract them with commands and give treats when they are ignoring whats going on outside and are paying attention to you

and if they bark squirt them with a watergun!

givee

Deleted User wrote: »

My first memory is of being bitten by a dog, a small terrier, I was 3 and saw the dog and I love dogs (still do of course ) so i got excited and ran over to it and bent down to pet it and it bit me on the face! drew blood etc

Looking back as an adult I know that i had actually run up to a dog that didnt know me and cornered it - its only escape was blocked by me with walls either side and the dog was literally standing beside the dog. I had also suddenly stretched my arm out to its head. It probably thought I was going to hit it or something (my rescued dog was afraid of being petted on the head when i got him first he even wet himself when i raised my hand to pet him on the head!). My family never kept dogs so i had no knowledge of how to behave around dogs.

Also the dog was loose on the street and its owner should not really have let it out with such young children playing on the road.

A nip is not a bite, its just not comparable, I`d even feel bad about the dog being put down for biting me in the face lol - i`d rather it be sent to a farm or made sure it was kept away from children. Maybe I`m too soft

thats the way i feel about the dog that bit me even though he was so vicious,i don't blame him at all and i just wish the woman who owns them would treat them properly,locked in a run all day every day is terrible!

beagle001

willow tree wrote: »

my dog is a terrier cross. she is 7/8years old. she has become more and more aggressive as shes gotten older. shes normally really sweet and passive but always had this thing if you touch her paws or if she thinks you are going to touch her paws, she snaps. ive done everything, after she snaps i give her a slap on the bum and put her outsisde. ive tried to make sure she is not dominant (she walks out after me, i lead her on walks etc)... she normally does what shes told. today a child was playing with her (i dont normally let her play with children but i was out) and she snapped at him, just left a little mark and he said he was fine (no blood). i felt sooooo bad, i dont know would classes help. does she need to be put down?im really upset and confused... please help:(

Unbelieveable,"does she need to be put down".
What sort of person would even think like that after this dog has been so loyal to you for 8 yrs,the answer is bloody no she does not need to be put down.
Get her a couple of lessons max 100 for 3 lessons of any decent trainer and the dog probably has a good 6yrs left in her and how do you know the kid was not poking the dog or annoying the animal.
Its this sick attitude that is hard to take,a dog has feelings also and needs to be shown right and wrong not sent of to the kill house like a nazi victim.

evo20

Just be VERY carefull around children in future and deal with the issue by training etc.

ToniTuddle

beagle001 wrote: »

What sort of person would even think like that after this dog has been so loyal to you for 8 yrs,
Its this sick attitude that is hard to take,a dog has feelings also and needs to be shown right and wrong not sent of to the kill house like a nazi victim.

Jaaaysus! Calm down like! The owner is hardly a Hitler wannabe

The OP said in her post that she was very upset and confused. She's probably heard plenty stories of pets having to be put down after they nipped or had bitten a child/person and so she freaked out a bit and wanted advise. Which she has got and is going to follow, did you miss those posts?

If I still had my dog and he had nipped or bitten someone my first thought would be "Ohhhhhhh shit! Are they going to try and get him put down". Some folks would panic and think such things momentarily.

All the best OP can understand why you were worried and please do come back and let us know how you get on with the behaviour therapist

willow tree

Thanks for understanding exactly what happened tonituddle, i was in bits when i found out (as a friend of mine, last year, had the most beautiful dog. he nipped someone as they had food in their pocket (no bite, a little nip). my friend was brought to court, with all these lies from the person that they were traumatised and my friend was fined stupid money but worst of all she had to put her beautiful dog down, so upsetting.) my mind just went there and i was so scared this was going to happen. anyway i dont want to go on about this any longer, im going to get her to a behaviourist this week and i'll let ye know how we get on. thanks for suggestions (very emotive issue).

Discodog

willow tree wrote: »

but worst of all she had to put her beautiful dog down,

This is one of the changes that is needed to dog law here. The Control of Dogs Act is all about control but make no consideration for welfare.

seamus

beagle001 wrote: »

Unbelieveable,"does she need to be put down".
What sort of person would even think like that after this dog has been so loyal to you for 8 yrs

Unfortunately this is pretty standard fare in Ireland. The old wives' tales and the idiots will always say that any dog should be put down when it bites someone because it means they're unpredictable and "have a taste for blood". Which is of course nonsense. But it's repeated so often in Ireland that when actually faced with a biting incident, many people believe that they are legally required to put the dog to sleep or that it's the "right thing to do".

Unfortunately as Discodog points out, this attitude is backed up by outdated laws designed to suit farmers and nobody else.

I should of course note that Ireland isn't alone in its backwardness. Canada (in some parts) has even more ridiculous law which requires any dog which has caused an injury to anyone (even its owners) can be seized on the spot by the authorities and put to sleep. At least in this country there's some scope for pleading/defence.

beagle001

seamus wrote: »

beagle001 wrote: »

Unbelieveable,"does she need to be put down".
What sort of person would even think like that after this dog has been so loyal to you for 8 yrs

Unfortunately this is pretty standard fare in Ireland. The old wives' tales and the idiots will always say that any dog should be put down when it bites someone because it means they're unpredictable and "have a taste for blood". Which is of course nonsense. But it's repeated so often in Ireland that when actually faced with a biting incident, many people believe that they are legally required to put the dog to sleep or that it's the "right thing to do".

Unfortunately as Discodog points out, this attitude is backed up by outdated laws designed to suit farmers and nobody else.

I should of course note that Ireland isn't alone in its backwardness. Canada (in some parts) has even more ridiculous law which requires any dog which has caused an injury to anyone (even its owners) can be seized on the spot by the authorities and put to sleep. At least in this country there's some scope for pleading/defence.

I can safely say 100% that no court or law would get me to put my dog down as I would never cooperate with such antiquated laws.
Yes things need to change here

boomerang

When you're down in Clare OP, Bev Truss (www.petproblems.net) is an excellent behaviourist with 25 years experience, and she doesn't use any harsh methods.

Also Tara at Dog Training Ireland, in Blanchardstown.

If you email either, they'll surely give you an indication of how much a consult would cost.

ToniTuddle

seamus wrote: »

I should of course note that Ireland isn't alone in its backwardness. Canada (in some parts) has even more ridiculous law which requires any dog which has caused an injury to anyone (even its owners) can be seized on the spot by the authorities and put to sleep. At least in this country there's some scope for pleading/defence.

Wow! Never knew that about Canada. That's pretty mental

ohmfg

The Canada thing comes more from the fear of rabies than from a backward view of pet ownership to be fair.

ISDW

seamus wrote: »

I should of course note that Ireland isn't alone in its backwardness. Canada (in some parts) has even more ridiculous law which requires any dog which has caused an injury to anyone (even its owners) can be seized on the spot by the authorities and put to sleep. At least in this country there's some scope for pleading/defence.

No, not Canada, Canada is the shining light in animal welfare around the world surely? ;)

Sorry everyone, just couldn't keep my fingers off the keyboard.

tbh

beagle001 wrote: »

I can safely say 100% that no court or law would get me to put my dog down as I would never cooperate with such antiquated laws.
Yes things need to change here

I'm not sure how you think the system works, but they don't actually give you a choice.

Wolfe Tone

beagle001 wrote: »

Unbelieveable,"does she need to be put down".
What sort of person would even think like that after this dog has been so loyal to you for 8 yrs,the answer is bloody no she does not need to be put down.
Get her a couple of lessons max 100 for 3 lessons of any decent trainer and the dog probably has a good 6yrs left in her and how do you know the kid was not poking the dog or annoying the animal.
Its this sick attitude that is hard to take,a dog has feelings also and needs to be shown right and wrong not sent of to the kill house like a nazi victim.

OP, don't let your dog near kids, if it draws blood next time the parents might take it further.

ToniTuddle

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Your post typifies the greatest problem with this forum imo.

There are only a select few who get abusive in fairness. You get that in nearly every forum. People just get extra passionate about animals and sometimes that spills over into their posts and they don't get their point across in the most.....correct/effective way :pac:
But it's being worked on to stamp out such things as far as I know!

beagle001

tbh wrote: »

beagle001 wrote: »

I can safely say 100% that no court or law would get me to put my dog down as I would never cooperate with such antiquated laws.
Yes things need to change here

I'm not sure how you think the system works, but they don't actually give you a choice.

No two ways about it I would send the dog away to a good home rather than put him down,I would protect him at all costs.
What are they going to do fine you with all the crooks in the dail that would be no worry to me.
Think outside the box and stay a step ahead.

Ricardo G

Hi Op, i had a similar problem with my terrier and her paws, she hated the fact that she needed to get her nails trimmed every few months and would resist at all costs. I am fortunate enough that i rarely have kids around and when they do Petal is put out in the kitchen. I will always maintain that when she had her nails cut as a pup she was hurt and it stuck memory wise

Discodog

tbh wrote: »

I'm not sure how you think the system works, but they don't actually give you a choice.

Your only option is to ensure that the Warden/Guards do not get hold of the dog. One they have it then you have no control over it's future.

I am not a lawyer but it would appear that if the dog is at the premises of the owner it is deemed to be under effectual control:

"9.—(1) The owner or any other person in charge of a dog shall not permit the
dog to be in any place other than—
( a ) the premises of the owner, or
( b ) the premises of such other person in charge of the dog, or
( c ) the premises of any other person, with the consent of that
person,
unless such owner or such other person in charge of the dog accompanies it and
keeps it under effectual control. "

Also a dog warden does not have a right of entry to a residence:

"( b ) seize any dog and detain it in order to ascertain whether an
offence under this Act is being or has been committed and may
enter any premises (other than a dwelling) for the purposes of such
seizure and detention"

So if the Dog Warden calls to seize your dog don't let him in unless he is accompanied by a Guard with a warrant. Then remove the dog somewhere else & tell them it escaped !

DBB

Discodog wrote: »

I am not a lawyer

Clearly. A lwayer would surely advise a client against obstruction/perverting the course of justice.

Contrary to what some might have you believe, many dog wardens are not out to get owners. For the most part, many are willing to work with an owner whose dog has carried out a reaonaly minor "crime", and are happy as long as the owner of such a dog takes active steps to prevent such an event recurring, attends training classes etc. If the owner appears reasonable, competent, and willing to take any complaints very seriously, it's not often a dog warden will be baying for your dog at your door.

Needler

Fecking hell the books of the law being brought out over this. What a storm in a teacup

and a dog will never understand a concept of how we humans make such a big deal out of the slightest bit of a scratch or danger of one occuring to a child. feck I don't think I understand it myself

Discodog

DBB wrote: »

If the owner appears reasonable, competent, and willing to take any complaints very seriously, it's not often a dog warden will be baying for your dog at your door.

The problem is the inconsistency. Being a dog warden involves a lot of personal discretion & autonomy so two wardens can be completely different in the way that they handle cases. The main reason that you won't get involved with a dog/community warden is because their are so few of them. Most LA's have cut back. My area has gone from three wardens down to one. Also the emphasis is on control rather than on responsible ownership.

As to perverting the law. It could be argued that an overzealous dog warden could be guilty of cruelty by causing unnecessary suffering/distress. The fact that LA's lump the Dog Wardens & Pounds into the category of waste disposal hardly inspires confidence.

The Wardens & Pound make decisions that they are totally unqualified to make. They have no animal behaviour qualification or training. So they are not in a position to make a qualified decision on whether a dog is dangerous or not. And as a recent thread demonstrated they won't even allow a qualified person to examine the dog.

Needler wrote: »

Fecking hell the books of the law being brought out over this. What a storm in a teacup

and a dog will never understand a concept of how we humans make such a big deal out of the slightest bit of a scratch or danger of one occuring to a child. feck I don't think I understand it myself

This issue crops up here quite often & many people are unaware of the law. There are posters here who have had their beloved dog killed for what would appear to be totally unjustified reasons.