Samoyed with Red Paws

Morbid.Angel

This post has been deleted.

paultf

My Mum's dog was doing this to his front paws. Changed his food from Iams to Arden Grange Sensitive (white fish & potato) and that seems to have fixed the problem.

Here is the thread on it:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72466448

VenusPlays

My spitz x samoyed Jack did this a couple of years ago to one of his front paws and ended up limping from it. Vet said it could have been something as simple as a grass seed that started the problem and the irritation continued from the licking. He was given a course of anti inflammatories which cleared it up.

Would it be worth asking your vet to take a skin scraping for analysis to see if there is a mite or skin infection present?

Knine

Hi

Red paws is often a sign of an allergy either in food or to disinfectent used in cleaning runs etc. I recently had this with a dog and he had to get steroid spray and also a change of diet. I was feeding Red Mills but changed to Hills prescription diet Z/D and it cleared up completely.

Another possibility is Harvest Mites as we are now coming into Harvest Mite season. Frontline/Advantage spot on is not great for Harvest mites but I have heard of success with the Frontline spray

Other ways to control harvest mites are

Beaphar foam (available from zooplus)
Dorwest Pennyroyal Shampoo or Aloe Vera shampoo lathered right into their skin and between toes
A foot dip consisting of dilute cider vinegar which I dip each paw into before/after walk/playing on grass

DBB

No doubt, harvest mites would be top of the list of suspects at this time of the year! They usually affect the front paws too though, but I've seen them causing very localised infestations in odd bits of the dog's body that aren't "meant" to be affected by harvest mites!
Advocate is licenced to kill them, as is Stronghold.
But Knine's suggestion of using cider vinegar (do you mean apple cider vinegar Knine?) is well worth a try, and I'm a bit annoyed with myself for not having thought of it before now as a daily foot-bath! It certainly seems to be effective against mange mites as it apparently changes the skin pH, making skin hostile territory for mites.
I'm not 100% sure it'll get rid of mites from your Sammie, but it would surely help keep 'em away once you've dealt with this batch?
Itchy feet are also a strong indicator of a food allergy, so you will need to rule this out too if she doesn't respond to the mite treatment.
Good luck with this, it must be very distressing both for your dog and for you

DogsFirst

All the previous posters are correct to a degree, there may be many causes for the issue, a contact allergy from say a disinfectant, mites, pollen, allergy etc, and changing his food will work temporarily. However, the bottom line is that this is almost certainly food related, even if the issue is pinned to a new disinfectant.

For a detailed explanation of what is going on in your Samoyed, or for any other fair to white coated breeds (with "sensitivities"), I have already posted re the "red paw" issue here. Should explain the whole process in detail.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75869306&postcount=63

Everything you need re cause and solution should be there for you. Any more trouble please don't hesitate.

Cherry Blossom

Dogsfirst - Please stop bumping up old threads for the purpose of posting the same thing over and over, I realise you are trying to help but this is considered spam. Post your advice in active threads only please.

JustAThought

Hmmm; never heard this before DogsFirst ; dunno if you've been up to trouble but this was interesting - thanks!!! Would never have found it otherwise!!!

DogsFirst

JustAThought wrote: »

Hmmm; never heard this before DogsFirst ; dunno if you've been up to trouble but this was interesting - thanks!!! Would never have found it otherwise!!!

Mod: Wasn't aware I was doing something wrong there, really thought if I talked a bit and added a link it would be helping, especially if the link wasn't closed. Always learning.

getz

bullies have this problem a lot,with their large spaced paws, normally its a microbial infection ,vets will often tell you to wash the area with a solution of hibiscrub,get that from any chemist,it has worked on my dogs,in the USA the bully breeders recommend you use a mouth wash[the yellow one] that is also a anti bacterial solution,as the dog will still lick the area it will do them no harm,hope this helps,

DogsFirst

Yeah definitely it can be bacterial sometimes, usually a bad smell is enough to determine the difference. But the red colour the westie owner was describing was very likely the common red fungus discussed in the thread.

Either way that boric acid wash that you can make yourself is the first stop for clearing up those issues and stopping the itch, no need for the vet (unless you can't get it sorted). Otherwise you'll pay for something that does the same job, or be prescribed antibiotics or an oral anti-fungal.

I suppose the point is, give it a go yourself, it's no biggie. First you have to remove the food antigen (gluten / cooked protein / food chemical additive). If fungal, do the wash etc or apply your fave food anti fungal you have at home. If bacterial use any one of your anti bacterial creams that you have.

While these creams are usually fine for dogs, tablets (such as paraceatamol) are poisonous so while creams are fine, oral stuff you had best avoid.

getz

DogsFirst wrote: »

Yeah definitely it can be bacterial sometimes, usually a bad smell is enough to determine the difference. But the red colour the westie owner was describing was very likely the common red fungus discussed in the thread.

Either way that boric acid wash that you can make yourself is the first stop for clearing up those issues and stopping the itch, no need for the vet (unless you can't get it sorted). Otherwise you'll pay for something that does the same job, or be prescribed antibiotics or an oral anti-fungal.

I suppose the point is, give it a go yourself, it's no biggie. First you have to remove the food antigen (gluten / cooked protein / food chemical additive). If fungal, do the wash etc or apply your fave food anti fungal you have at home. If bacterial use any one of your anti bacterial creams that you have.

While these creams are usually fine for dogs, tablets (such as paraceatamol) are poisonous so while creams are fine, oral stuff you had best avoid.

yes at the end of the day,vets have to make a living ,so you could be charged a lot for the simple things,you can tell if its a bacterial infection by shining a infrared light[if you you have one] on the area

DogsFirst

Good idea that but there's a few probems with it. It only glows blue when there is something that fluoresces, or glows in UV light. Only some can do that. Also bacteria are microscopic so you'll be needing a blue light and a microscope to see them (and a relaxed dog while you poke and prod his feet). You would have to culture the area (take a sample, put on a growing substance, sample, put on slide, put under microscope) to determine if bacteria were present with your eye balls.

That blue light is used to kill bacteria though so that could be a quick solution.

Still though if you don't remove what was causing the dog to itch / lick and moisten the area in the first place, all the creams and blue light won't be worth the promises on the front of the bag.

I really think if everyone got together on boards and talked home remedies for a bit you'd get enough info to treat 90% of the common stuff out there. People have great ideas and cheap remedies. Will start a thread see if I can get it going.

Janeboylan

My Lab had the same problem his had an allergy to something he would lick his paws untill they where raw and would swell up. It was always after we bring him for a walk to the beach/ up the mountains - grass areas. It got really bad and it would spread to his belly, that he was losing his hair and had a really bad rash we tried getting him tested in UCD College but it was so costly they had so many test they wanted to run on him.

What we did in the end was each time it got bad we would bring him to our local vet where he would give him an injection to get the swelling down, and gave him a course steroids to get rid of the rash and help with the irrtation.

If your dog is allergic to something ridiculous like grass something you can't help but expose them too I think your only option is steroids. Unfortunatly Steroids I believe can shorten your dogs life as they are such a powerful drug especially if you have to keep giving them that treatment for yrs.

You might be lucky tho, our lab had this problem for a few yrs and his allergies have gone away he grew out of it if that makes sense.

I hope this helps, best of look with your Dog.

tk123

My dog gets allergic to the cut grass in the park once or twice a year - raw paws and itchy/bald tummy with blisters. I usually give him pirotin for a few days and it sorts it out so this may be another thing to try. I checked with my vet and she said it was fine to give to him. It only cost a few euro for a box.

DogsFirst

Janeboylan wrote: »

My Lab had the same problem his had an allergy to something he would lick his paws untill they where raw and would swell up. It was always after we bring him for a walk to the beach/ up the mountains - grass areas. It got really bad and it would spread to his belly, that he was losing his hair and had a really bad rash we tried getting him tested in UCD College but it was so costly they had so many test they wanted to run on him.

What we did in the end was each time it got bad we would bring him to our local vet where he would give him an injection to get the swelling down, and gave him a course steroids to get rid of the rash and help with the irrtation.

If your dog is allergic to something ridiculous like grass something you can't help but expose them too I think your only option is steroids. Unfortunatly Steroids I believe can shorten your dogs life as they are such a powerful drug especially if you have to keep giving them that treatment for yrs.

You might be lucky tho, our lab had this problem for a few yrs and his allergies have gone away he grew out of it if that makes sense.

I hope this helps, best of look with your Dog.

Hey, just wondering did UCD at any stage recommoned changing his food off dry food? In fact there's a few things you can do to reduce your dogs "allergies" / steroid need. Here's three....

i) Remove all antigens from his diet, including gluten (gluten is found in cereals such as wheat, barley and rye, and these are grass, often the very first heads up that you have an internal gluten sensitivity is hay fever). We as omnivores have been eating gluten for 2,000 years and still today 30 - 40% of people depending on your ethnicity, ie how long you have been exposed to it, imagine how many carnivorous (therefore poorer at digesting gluten and more prone to it's affects) dogs are susceptible to it. Other antigens include cooked protein and chemical additives etc. It just takes one of these in the diet for an extended period to beleagure the dogs system to such an extent it becomes hypersensitive which will express in other allergies, like walking on grass.

ii) Heavy dose fish oil reduces steroid need, even if you keep feeding the antigen.
Scott, D.W. And Miller, W.H. (1993). “Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents in the management of canine allergic pruritus”. Journal of South African Veterinary Association, 64(1):52-6
Watson, T.D.G. (1998). “Diet and Skin Disease in Dogs and Cats”. The Journal of Nutrition, 128(12):2783S-2789S

iii) Human anti histamine works great in dogs with hay fever-esque issues and much cheaper (and so much better for the system) than high profile prescription drugs.


I know removing the antigens works JB because when I arrived in Perth, Australia three years ago, 7 of my 18 working dogs were on steroids. Very upsetting. It was an epidemic of sick dogs over there, casually excepted by the industry. I'm just as wary as steroids as you (while great at shutting down the immune system they do exactly that, your immune system was trying to help you, worse they don't actually tackle what caused the problem, only mask it. They have some serious side effects on organs, including joints long term (see footballers) and importantly for my training dogs, affect behaviour. Entirely unacceptable for long term use).

I took 3 of my worst dogs, on heavy steroid use every day, with varying symptoms from the worst skin you've seen (with the associated hair loss and sore red paws etc) to explosive diarrhoea, to a fresh natural diet, removing the above antigens.

In their five months before the changeover these 3 dogs had racked up 19 veterinary visits (outside of standard booster / health checks) for their ailments. After multiple diagnoses of multiple causes, multiple changes of diet (dry to dry to dry) and multiples of medicine, four months after the change only one pup returned to the vet for a skin care follow up and then nothing. Their issues that the best vets in Perth couldn't clear simply evaporated. Within three months these dogs were completely off their steroids, allergy and rash free and completely focused on their work.
The results were so utterly astounding (and the lack of veterinary interest so horrifying) that I dropped my industry enviable role of Guide Dog Pup Supervisor (which guarantees you 9-5 complete puppy emersion, something I had worked towards for 15 years) to study the subject full time. I emerged three years later today, ready to spread the word.

While my results are anecdotal I have two serious studies that show fresh fed dogs have far healthier immune systems than those dogs on premium dog foods. More on that in two months when I release the info.

This is why so many dry foods are coming out with gluten free varieties and why people today are moving away from dry food (US dry food sales fell in quantity for the first time last year, Euromonitor Pet Food Report 2010 -2011, summary available online) and sales of fresh/frozen products are increasing exponentially.


I swore I would shorten my answers, I don't know what's wrong with me. Hopefully it comes across as passion for the subject and not lectures to the people. Feedback appreciated.