Screwtape Letters, Hell, Sin and Garabandal

alex73

Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are following the road to perdition.

I first read this phrase back in 1995 I think, I was working for a Catholic Lay Group at the time. It struck me as a striking phrase. A prophesy from Conchita a Girl from Garabandal. The Group I belonged to a time was extremely staunch Catholic and did not look kindly as me reading the fantasy tales. The only reason I did was because I happened to know the son of Conchita who lived in America.

Anyway like many things one reads it became part of my mental library. Just to put the phrase in context it dates back to early 60's when the church was very much more, how would I put it, more in control.

Anyway as the 90's progressed a lot of the scandals of Cardinals, Bishops & Priests emerged. Even in the Organisation I belonged to it emerged that the Saintly Founder which we considered a holy man was infact everything but that.

Questions arose,,, What am I really believing in? What is the Church. Is it manipulation....?

I remember reading Screwtape letters and how the Author details that one of the devils objectives is to make man believe he does not exist. Once you make Christ message obsolete then man becomes introverted.

Anyway a long road later after a lot of searching and questioning of my faith and having met and spoken to people who are living saints and who really live the faith it became clear to me that evil, sin Hell does exist. And its not about doing evil, we offend God by sometimes not doing anything, during a blind eye to the others.

Today I read the story of abuse of a Mother of 8 in Galway, Shocking. Same as the many abuse stories in the Church. But the same way as not all Mothers are abusers.. The same can be said for many people in the Church, who like me are sicken.



So up for Christian Discussion today:- Do you think the Devil, Satan, Father of Evil is at work. Is society today any happier with their new found freedoms and rights? How will god Judge us when for example today we are letting thousands of People suffer while we turn our faces away for starvation.

homer911

alex73 wrote: »

Do you think the Devil, Satan, Father of Evil is at work.

Its the Christianity Forum - of course!

alex73 wrote: »

Is society today any happier with their new found freedoms and rights?

New Found? I suppose if you are comparing 1950's Catholic Ireland with the Ireland of today...

Can anyone speak for the whole of society and their happiness? If so, then I think society has lost a lot and gained a lot. In the longer term, I think the benefit will be positive, but we are presently seeing our first generations of "unchurched" where society has thrown the baby out with the bath water. Christians in society have to address that.

alex73 wrote: »

How will god Judge us when for example today we are letting thousands of People suffer while we turn our faces away for starvation.

In the same way he would have judged us in the past - God doesn't change

gimmebroadband

For sure the vineyard needs weeding, inside and out! As society got more 'affluent' morality took a back seat, whereas right is wrong and vice versa.

GOD WILL SEND A TERRIBLE WARNING

THE MESSAGE OF
OUR LADY OF AKITA
(1973 - 1981)

Apparitions Approved – An Urgent Message

"The demon will rage especially against souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them."


In his pastoral letter, Bishop Ito said that it would have been difficult to believe in a message from Our Lady that is so terrible, unless there was overwhelming proof that it was indeed from Her. But he points out that the terrible chastisement of which Our Lady speaks is on the condition: "If men do not repent and do not better themselves . . ." The Bishop added it is a serious warning, while at the same time one perceives in it the maternal love of Our Lady. In Her message warning the world of the annihilation of a great part of humanity, She said: "The thought of the loss of numerous souls makes me sad."

http://olrl.org/prophecy/akita.shtml

Baggio1

Ok chaps
i think ol hornhead as i call him has never been buisier - because he kows his time is coming to an end! ,, so he wishes to drag as many souls as possible to hell with him, he hates humans with absolute rage -and it always amuses me why satanists work so hard on his behalf thinking he will reward them and make them have a great future because he's soo cool etc - what they dont get is that he hates THEM more than anyone, because he is pure evil, there is nooo loyalty,kindness,respect,goodness, in him just hate and he laughs most of all at the satan worshipers when they are dammed, they he torments more than any other dammed souls because of their stupidity in trusting him!
Conchita and the others at Grrabandal i believe are genuine, this year is such a testing year, I have no doubt that Pope Benedict WILL be forced to leave Rome and will be replaced with a false pope -false prophet, and the great warning will take place in next 9months aswell, i personally believe it will happen with the arrival of the comet in september/october, ,, so people should not be surprised to see so much evil being suported and so much good walked on, it IS time for battle, theres a war coming, a military one and a spiritual one and people need to grow up and get informed as to whats ging on around them and their world.
On a sidenote i see where Medjugoria has basically been proclaimed as a scam by the Vatican and the main priest at the centre of it has been unmasked as a scammer too.. the "visionaries" have lived high lifestyles in USA and other places and that should really be a sign right there that they were false.

strobe

I think Lucy gets a bad wrap personally. He's a fan of man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jARp24AJWLk

Robert ninja

@ Baggio1

Why did god create the devil or let him continue to exist after he didn't like him anymore?

strobe

Robert ninja wrote: »

@ Baggio1

Why did god create the Devil or let him continue to exist after he didn't like him anymore?

It was Gods first prototype being with free will. If you want to get meta He was necessary for the loaf to be baked properly. He lets Him continue to exist because He is a cog. Don't cut off the nose in spite of the face and all that.

(I have a different theory, of course.)

alex73

@ Baggio1, I don't believe in all the visionaries and prophecies. It's just very curious that what the girls of garabandal said in the early 60's has played out. It was unheard for people to attack the clergy in this manner then, escpecially girls from a poor town in northern Spain.

Festus

alex73 wrote: »

@ Baggio1, I don't believe in all the visionaries and prophecies. It's just very curious that what the girls of garabandal said in the early 60's has played out. It was unheard for people to attack the clergy in this manner then, escpecially girls from a poor town in northern Spain.

I don't see how you can interpret a message from Our Lady which is a statement of fact can be interpreted as an attack on the clergy.

Accepting of course that the jury is still out on Garabandal and the Vatican has not yet dismissed it, and may possibly endorse it.

Baggio1

Alex fair point - but we/I dont HAVE to believe visionaries etc.... theres a gift of spiritual discernmant, and i just seem able to know the reals from the unreals dont ask me how! it just is that way.

RobertNinja - well dude he created him as a good angel along with all the others, lucifer rebelled and would not serve, so his sin of pride got him kicked out by the Archangel ST.Michael and his serving angels, lucifer apparantly took a 3rd of the angels with him, they were all turned into horrific demons when they were dammed, so there ya go...simplified version of the story,, wish i was there with a camera for that one! ahha

alex73

Baggio1 wrote: »

Alex fair point - but we/I dont HAVE to believe visionaries etc.... theres a gift of spiritual discernmant, and i just seem able to know the reals from the unreals dont ask me how! it just is that way.

What happened in Garabandal I find it hard to believe the girls could have made it up, Certainly it was supernatural. Remains to be seen what global event is coming that will warn mankind.

torrentum

alex73 wrote: »

It's just very curious that what the girls of garabandal said in the early 60's has played out.

What was it they said that played out?
I thought garabandal was a condemned vision? Correct me please, if im wrong? I saw images of the girls holdung crucifixes but all the crosses were held at an angle- never straight. What about walking backwards atc? Enlighten me if ive been told wrong. Thanks

irishh_bob

alex73 wrote: »

Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are following the road to perdition.

I first read this phrase back in 1995 I think, I was working for a Catholic Lay Group at the time. It struck me as a striking phrase. A prophesy from Conchita a Girl from Garabandal. The Group I belonged to a time was extremely staunch Catholic and did not look kindly as me reading the fantasy tales. The only reason I did was because I happened to know the son of Conchita who lived in America.

Anyway like many things one reads it became part of my mental library. Just to put the phrase in context it dates back to early 60's when the church was very much more, how would I put it, more in control.

Anyway as the 90's progressed a lot of the scandals of Cardinals, Bishops & Priests emerged. Even in the Organisation I belonged to it emerged that the Saintly Founder which we considered a holy man was infact everything but that.

Questions arose,,, What am I really believing in? What is the Church. Is it manipulation....?

I remember reading Screwtape letters and how the Author details that one of the devils objectives is to make man believe he does not exist. Once you make Christ message obsolete then man becomes introverted.

Anyway a long road later after a lot of searching and questioning of my faith and having met and spoken to people who are living saints and who really live the faith it became clear to me that evil, sin Hell does exist. And its not about doing evil, we offend God by sometimes not doing anything, during a blind eye to the others.

Today I read the story of abuse of a Mother of 8 in Galway, Shocking. Same as the many abuse stories in the Church. But the same way as not all Mothers are abusers.. The same can be said for many people in the Church, who like me are sicken.



So up for Christian Discussion today:- Do you think the Devil, Satan, Father of Evil is at work. Is society today any happier with their new found freedoms and rights? How will god Judge us when for example today we are letting thousands of People suffer while we turn our faces away for starvation.

god is all powerfull , why did he allow a disastrous drought to hit east africa when he knew it would reuslt in starvation for the already impoverished people , god wants praise for everything but wants to take responsbility for nothing

Suzie Sue

strobe wrote: »

I think Lucy gets a bad wrap personally. He's a fan of man.

Very illuminating clip, but not the way you guys think it is.

alex73

torrentum wrote: »

What was it they said that played out?

Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are following the road to perdition.

This was said in the early 60's... Why would the devil bother warning us? I think it was god sending a message.

Suzie Sue

alex73 wrote: »

So up for Christian Discussion today:- Do you think the Devil, Satan, Father of Evil is at work.

Without a doubt. He's hard at work in the Vatican and everywhere else in the world 24/7/365. Satan is unbelievably shrewd, he uses the 7 deadly sins to their full effect to hook his prey. He has fooled most people, including a lot of clergy, into thinking he and hell does not exist. Much easier than convincing people God does not exist . A third of the angels rebelled again God and joined Satan to become his demons. His demons now roam the earth constantly tempting the conscious of man. Money, power, possessions and lust has became the new God in Ireland. Man now thinks he's too clever for Satan. What an error.

Festus

Suzie Sue wrote: »

Money, power, possessions and lust has became the new God in Ireland.

Not just Ireland...

Suzie Sue wrote: »

Man now thinks he's too clever for Satan. What an error.

... also boards.ie

alex73

The shopping centre, "mall" today is the new Sunday church. Buy buy buy. Anything to distract man from looking at it's soul

strobe

alex73 wrote: »

The shopping centre, "mall" today is the new Sunday church. Buy buy buy. Anything to distract man from looking at it's soul

Karl? :pac:

Robert ninja

Baggio1 wrote: »

well dude he created him as a good angel along with all the others, lucifer rebelled and would not serve, so his sin of pride got him kicked out by the Archangel ST.Michael and his serving angels, lucifer apparantly took a 3rd of the angels with him, they were all turned into horrific demons when they were dammed, so there ya go...simplified version of the story,

So he made an angel specifically to betray him, let him betray him and allowed him to take 3 other servants with him. And to this day has done nothing about it?

K

Suzie Sue

Robert ninja wrote: »

So he made an angel specifically to betray him, let him betray him and allowed him to take 3 other servants with him. And to this day has done nothing about it?

K

You don't understand the simple concept of God given free will do you ?

Robert ninja

I understand free will. Not god GIVEN free will, which is contradictory. And the concept of free will doesn't even work with a god that created and controls absolutely everything, including what free will is and knows what people will do with it in advance. Troll god.

Anyway, I see a lot of devil-blaming in here. It actually scares me to see people this sincere about demons causing bad things. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I have talked to a lot of religious people who ask where are all the crazy christians I speak of. I direct them to threads like this. Though I can understand... blaming everything bad on the devil is a very easy thing to do but It traps the indivudal so they think that anyone who disagrees with them or makes a compelling arguement against them is simply in the hands of the devil. The devil is everywhere! He's in the clergy, he's in the mall making people forget about church, he's even trying to corrupt you by making you doubt (think) that perhaps there's another explanation.

Suzie Sue

Robert ninja wrote: »

I understand free will. Not god GIVEN free will, which is contradictory. And the concept of free will doesn't even work with a god that created and controls absolutely everything, including what free will is and knows what people will do with it in advance. Troll god.

Anyway, I see a lot of devil-blaming in here. It actually scares me to see people this sincere about demons causing bad things. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I have talked to a lot of religious people who ask where are all the crazy christians I speak of. I direct them to threads like this. Though I can understand... blaming everything bad on the devil is a very easy thing to do but It traps the indivudal so they think that anyone who disagrees with them or makes a compelling arguement against them is simply in the hands of the devil. The devil is everywhere! He's in the clergy, he's in the mall making people forget about church, he's even trying to corrupt you by making you doubt (think) that perhaps there's another explanation.

Ok time for a basic Catechism lesson on free will again : The devil and his demons cannot force you to do anything, they can only promote temptation in your thoughts for the seven deadly sins and eventually you'll be a slave to those sins through addiction. Pride being the most deadly of the sins, and the root of all the others. So there's no point in trying the stunt that Catholics blame the devil instead of the wrongdoers. They made their own choices.

Robert ninja

So in other words, everyone is to blame (demons, humans, the devil) except of course god, who orchastrated this entire thing and therefore has no responsibility.
No matter how many times you mention free will, you cannot escape the fact that your god apparently invented this thing called free will and knows in advance exactly what everyone will ever do in their lives. All powerful and does not use any of said power to stop the forces that it apparently hates so much (that it created, no less).

The real 'devil' here is anything that would say every basic human emotion that you're bound to feel intesnely many times in your life as 'sin'. Sure, some CAN be dangerous but all it needs is control. Having too much pride is a bad thing, but having a little is not. I know this religion does require you to feel like a worthless sack of shyte that's not worthy of grace and should be thankful for being saved, though... so it would say that any sense of self worth is a bad thing.

Suzie Sue

Robert ninja wrote: »

So in other words, everyone is to blame (demons, humans, the devil) except of course god, who orchastrated this entire thing and therefore has no responsibility.
No matter how many times you mention free will, you cannot escape the fact that your god apparently invented this thing called free will and knows in advance exactly what everyone will ever do in their lives. All powerful and does not use any of said power to stop the forces that it apparently hates so much (that it created, no less).

The real 'devil' here is anything that would say every basic human emotion that you're bound to feel intesnely many times in your life as 'sin'. Sure, some CAN be dangerous but all it needs is control. Having too much pride is a bad thing, but having a little is not. I know this religion does require you to feel like a worthless sack of shyte that's not worthy of grace and should be thankful for being saved, though... so it would say that any sense of self worth is a bad thing.

LOL - This is so silly, I couldn't be bothered. It's like watching a headless chicken :rolleyes:

irishh_bob

Suzie Sue wrote: »

Without a doubt. He's hard at work in the Vatican and everywhere else in the world 24/7/365. Satan is unbelievably shrewd, he uses the 7 deadly sins to their full effect to hook his prey. He has fooled most people, including a lot of clergy, into thinking he and hell does not exist. Much easier than convincing people God does not exist . A third of the angels rebelled again God and joined Satan to become his demons. His demons now roam the earth constantly tempting the conscious of man. Money, power, possessions and lust has became the new God in Ireland. Man now thinks he's too clever for Satan. What an error.

you obviously have some kind of fetish for pain and punishment , head out to somalia for a few weeks and you will realise that hell is here on earth , no god would allow such despair and suffering

irishh_bob

Robert ninja wrote: »

I understand free will. Not god GIVEN free will, which is contradictory. And the concept of free will doesn't even work with a god that created and controls absolutely everything, including what free will is and knows what people will do with it in advance. Troll god.

Anyway, I see a lot of devil-blaming in here. It actually scares me to see people this sincere about demons causing bad things. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I have talked to a lot of religious people who ask where are all the crazy christians I speak of. I direct them to threads like this. Though I can understand... blaming everything bad on the devil is a very easy thing to do but It traps the indivudal so they think that anyone who disagrees with them or makes a compelling arguement against them is simply in the hands of the devil. The devil is everywhere! He's in the clergy, he's in the mall making people forget about church, he's even trying to corrupt you by making you doubt (think) that perhaps there's another explanation.

if the police had GOD,s pr teams skills , they would blame every crime committed on satan , they could then sit back , do nothing and point to the fact that the thieves and murderers have free will

Suzie Sue

irishh_bob wrote: »

you obviously have some kind of fetish for pain and punishment , head out to somalia for a few weeks and you will realise that hell is here on earth , no god would allow such despair and suffering

All created by man and his greed for money and power.

gimmebroadband

irishh_bob wrote: »

you obviously have some kind of fetish for pain and punishment , head out to somalia for a few weeks and you will realise that hell is here on earth , no god would allow such despair and suffering

No, man allowed it and has the ability to fix it, but they don't - they'd rather turn a blind eye, and turn it around and blame God!!! Yeah right!!!!

gimmebroadband

Robert ninja wrote: »

So he made an angel specifically to betray him, let him betray him and allowed him to take 3 other servants with him. And to this day has done nothing about it?

K

Oh but God will have his day! The very last day!!

Matthew 13:10-40

Suzie Sue

Robert ninja wrote: »

So he made an angel specifically to betray him, let him betray him and allowed him to take 3 other servants with him. And to this day has done nothing about it?

K

Newsflash : Free will extends to angels.

3 Others ? He took one third of all angels with him, they're now demons.

PDN

Robert ninja wrote: »

So he made an angel specifically to betray him, let him betray him and allowed him to take 3 other servants with him. And to this day has done nothing about it?

K

Yeah, nothing at all (apart from God coming to earth in human flesh, bearing the sins of the world on His shoulders at Calvary, frustrating Satan's plans by purchasing salvation for all of mankind that wishes to be saved, being raised from the dead, being poured out on the Day of Pentecost, and dwelling within the heart of every true believer in His Church).

Ellian

gimmebroadband wrote: »

No, man allowed it and has the ability to fix it, but they don't - they'd rather turn a blind eye, and turn it around and blame God!!! Yeah right!!!!

Out of idle curiosity have you ever read Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. Specifically on why even God does not have the power to change the past? Or rather set limits on his own power that he could not change the past?

gimmebroadband

Ellian wrote: »

Out of idle curiosity have you ever read Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. Specifically on why even God does not have the power to change the past? Or rather set limits on his own power that he could not change the past?

What's that got to do with man cleaning up his own mess???

Ellian

That any action no matter how good or bad would be rendered meaningless if God could undo it.

Robert ninja

@ PDN

Cool story, bro.

Suzie Sue wrote: »

LOL - This is so silly,

In comparison to the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so that he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

gimmebroadband wrote: »

Oh but God will have his day! The very last day!!

Matthew 13:10-40

Good luck with that.

Suzie Sue

Robert ninja wrote: »

In comparison to the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so that he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

LOL teenage boys and their marvel comics, your so silly !

gimmebroadband

Robert ninja wrote: »

Good luck with that.

Ditto!

irishh_bob

Suzie Sue wrote: »

All created by man and his greed for money and power.

so if the starving children in somalia shouldnt expect god to help them , why do people in wealthy ireland pray to god when they have a driving test coming up or are going for a job interview

irishh_bob

gimmebroadband wrote: »

No, man allowed it and has the ability to fix it, but they don't - they'd rather turn a blind eye, and turn it around and blame God!!! Yeah right!!!!

if man has the ability to fix it then surely its man those starving somalians should be praying to

if someone is capable of preventing a tragedy or dealing with one but chooses not to , we dont tend to view them in a favourable light , if police allowed a crowd of hooligans at a sports event to cause mayhem resulting in death , we wouldnt simply turn round and say , the hooligans had free will , now i would be willing to accept that god isnt to blame for the famine in somalia but only if you by the same token accept that praying to him is completley useless , unless of course the sole purpose of praying is to appease and stroke this omnipotents ego

gimmebroadband

irishh_bob wrote: »

if man has the ability to fix it then surely its man those starving somalians should be praying to

if someone is capable of preventing a tragedy or dealing with one but chooses not to , we dont tend to view them in a favourable light , if police allowed a crowd of hooligans at a sports event to cause mayhem resulting in death , we wouldnt simply turn round and say , the hooligans had free will , now i would be willing to accept that god isnt to blame for the famine in somalia but only if you by the same token accept that praying to him is completley useless , unless of course the sole purpose of praying is to appease and stroke this omnipotents ego

Jesus said the poor we'll always have with us, our immortals souls are more at risk, so we pray to God for help in that department!!!

irishh_bob

gimmebroadband wrote: »

Jesus said the poor we'll always have with us, our immortals souls are more at risk, so we pray to God for help in that department!!!

so jesus is ok with the starving in somalia

gimmebroadband

irishh_bob wrote: »

so jesus is ok with the starving in somalia

Of course He's not, he' disappointed that it's come to that because of man's indifference to the plight of others!

irishh_bob

gimmebroadband wrote: »

Of course He's not, he' disappointed that it's come to that because of man's indifference to the plight of others!

how do you know all this , has he sent you an email recently

alex73

Those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God. If you believe in another life, then be prepared for a class system where those who suffered there are rewarded and those of us in our "1st world" who turned a blind eye to poor and suffering of others are left outside in the cold.

God made us free to help others.

irishh_bob

alex73 wrote: »

Those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God. If you believe in another life, then be prepared for a class system where those who suffered there are rewarded and those of us in our "1st world" who turned a blind eye to poor and suffering of others are left outside in the cold.

God made us free to help others.

so only we can help , he - she cant

Fanny Cradock

irishh_bob, do you specialise in begging the question?

alex73

irishh_bob wrote: »

so only we can help , he - she cant

He has helped, he made you an intelligent person who has some means... Use them.

irishh_bob

alex73 wrote: »

He has helped, he made you an intelligent person who has some means... Use them.

im a penniless - homeless peasant , how can i help the starving in somalia , he - she is all powerfull , i think the burden of responsibility is greater on god

PDN

irishh_bob wrote: »

im a penniless - homeless peasant , how can i help the starving in somalia , he - she is all powerfull , i think the burden of responsibility is greater on god

More like a troll, who obviously has access to the internet, yet pretends to be homeless and penniless.

Now stop trolling.

irishh_bob

PDN wrote: »

More like a troll, who obviously has access to the internet, yet pretends to be homeless and penniless.

Now stop trolling.

im trying to pose a question here , why if god has so much power , has he - she so little responsbility and if he - she has indeed no responsibility towards the starving in somalia , if its our mess alone , why do we pray to him - her for help , why do we thank him - her , if a police man told you it wasnt his responsibility to deal with the thieves who stole your car , you wouldnt turn round and praise them