Irish Aid seemingly don't answer emails.

Turkana

I sent two emails to Irish Aid about a week ago, (two different IrishAid email addresses) asking them what measures they take to minimize the effects of corrupt African governments on donations (which come from our pockets).

Did you know that when Ireland was sending millions to Uganda, their president Yoweri Museveni bought himself a $50million luxury jet? I mentioned this in the emails.

Why do you think it's taking them more than a week to reply? I don't want to call them as I want some reading material to peruse rather than listen to facts and figures over the phone, but I will call them if I don't receive a reply in the next week. I was expecting them to give me some nice in-depth documents about corruption and what they do to make sure our cash goes directly to those in need.

Should I just keep sending them the same emails until they reply or just call?

Slydice

I'd say the majority of the civil servants in there are on holiday given that it's the summer time and their bosses (politicians) will/are gonna be taking theirs around now.

After that, they probably get a bunch of correspondance to deal with so I'd say a fortnight to a month would be more realistic to wait.

Have you tried the contact email on their contact page?
http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/about_contact.asp

Email: irishaid@dfa.ie

mikemac

If you want a reply from a government agency (or make a complaint against a company like xtravision or Tesco) you are better writing a letter and it's important you give your full name and address.

They probably think you're a journalist and are careful about answering emails

Did you give your name and address?

Manach

Responses vary in time, from fairly soon to the heat death of the universe. It might be worth addressing your question to an individual at the organisation?

Turkana

mikemac wrote: »

If you want a reply from a government agency (or make a complaint against a company like xtravision or Tesco) you are better writing a letter and it's important you give your full name and address.

They probably think you're a journalist and are careful about answering emails

Did you give your name and address?

No I didn't give my name and address.

Why are government agencies afraid to answer questions? Their job is to serve their country, of which I am a citizen, and I pay their wages... so they are answerable to me are they not?

Have you tried the contact email on their contact page?

Yes I have.

Do ye think that this is a touchy issue for them? Enough of our money is being squandered, I don't want to be buying private jets and Bugatti Veyrons for corrupt African politicians.

JustinDee

Why would you not give your name and address?? Probably sent from an anonymous webmail too. Is it any wonder your mail is bottom of pile and least of their worries? No.

By the rest of your post, it would seem you've already got a view on the matter (based on...?) and are not for the changing anyway. They'd see, if bothering to read rest of email at all, a crank on the net.

Turkana

JustinDee wrote: »

By the rest of your post, it would seem you've already got a view on the matter (based on...?) and are not for the changing anyway. They'd see, if bothering to read rest of email at all, a crank on the net.

I really don't know what you're shiteing on about... What do you mean a crank on the net? And what view do I have that can't be changed?? I'm not trying to argue with Irish Aid, I'm just requesting some info.

So if there's a much better chance of a reply by giving them my full address then I'll do just that.

JustinDee

Turkana wrote: »

I really don't know what you're shiteing on about...

Thats why you get no reply.

Turkana

Thats why you get no reply.

LOL. Ok somebody got up on the wrong side of bed this morning! Your original post was quite rude, so I brought the tone of my response down to your level. Now you won't even talk to me!

Oh well. If Irish Aid do reply I'll post it here in case anyone is interested.

But then again, is anyone here actually interested in what happens to their tax money once it enters African state coffers?

mikemac

Turkana wrote: »

Their job is to serve their country, of which I am a citizen, and I pay their wages... so they are answerable to me are they not?

You should use that line at checkpoints, gardaí love hearing it :P

Turkana wrote: »

No I didn't give my name and address.

Just give your name and address and that goes for any correspondence you send, not just the government.
They know it's a serious request, not Turkana from hotmail or some anonymous email address

You're saying they should reply as you are a citizen. But you sent an email and they don't even know who you are

Turkana

Well here's the reply if anyone's interested. And I never followed up with my name and address.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a5_fBWa3OCuNy0-SCK5Zv6FH_vcA_vkc--t37M5OKfg/edit?hl=en_GB

walshb

Turkana wrote: »

I sent two emails to Irish Aid about a week ago, (two different IrishAid email addresses) asking them what measures they take to minimize the effects of corrupt African governments on donations (which come from our pockets).

Did you know that when Ireland was sending millions to Uganda, their president Yoweri Museveni bought himself a $50million luxury jet? I mentioned this in the emails.

Why do you think it's taking them more than a week to reply? I don't want to call them as I want some reading material to peruse rather than listen to facts and figures over the phone, but I will call them if I don't receive a reply in the next week. I was expecting them to give me some nice in-depth documents about corruption and what they do to make sure our cash goes directly to those in need.

Should I just keep sending them the same emails until they reply or just call?

Why didn't you make out that you wanted to donate? I am sure they'd have gotten back to you then; always about chasing the money

Turkana

I'm still not convinced though... I mean why did they keep funding the Uganda government when their president bought a luxury jet for himself. Do you think I'll get an answer to that question?

Does anybody here care about this issue at all?

Not only do we support them when they come over here and give them better treatment than the Irish (I refer you to the case of Pamela Izibkibeki whatever) but we also send millions overseas to support them. Irish hospitals are suffering cutbacks so we can buy Mercedez for corrupt African politicians... What the hell is going on?!

walshb wrote: »

Why didn't you make out that you wanted to donate? I am sure they'd have gotten back to you then; always about chasing the money

Good idea.

caseyann

Turkana wrote: »

I'm still not convinced though... I mean why did they keep funding the Uganda government when their president bought a luxury jet for himself. Do you think I'll get an answer to that question?

So rather then send a personalized message,they sent you a copied already printed rubbish answer to fob you off.:D
There is you answer!

Turkana

caseyann wrote: »

So rather then send a personalized message,they sent you a copied already printed rubbish answer to fob you off.:D
There is you answer!

As you can see from my original post I got what I wanted:

I was expecting them to give me some nice in-depth documents about corruption and what they do to make sure our cash goes directly to those in need.

Well I only got one document... I suppose I'd like to see some bigger reports though.

walshb

Turkana wrote: »

I'm still not convinced though... I mean why did they keep funding the Uganda government when their president bought a luxury jet for himself. Do you think I'll get an answer to that question?

Does anybody here care about this issue at all?

Not only do we support them when they come over here and give them better treatment than the Irish (I refer you to the case of Pamela Izibkibeki whatever) but we also send millions overseas to support them. Irish hospitals are suffering cutbacks so we can buy Mercedez for corrupt African politicians... What the hell is going on?!




Good idea.

This has been going on years. It's a ****ing racket. They're cutting vital services here there and everywhere in Eire, and sending milions abroad to be thrown down a bottomless pit of corruption. It's the Paddy mentality.

Nodin

Turkana wrote: »

Do ye think that this is a touchy issue for them? Enough of our money is being squandered, I don't want to be buying private jets and Bugatti Veyrons for corrupt African politicians.

Do you have some source to back up that claim?

walshb

http://www.freeafrica.org/news/2020.htm

Change the record, Nodin....

Source source source; it's all you ever spout...

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Source source source; it's all you ever spout...

Yes, it helps free people from the delusion that unbacked claims are factual information.

As it stands I'd like to know what exactly is meant or referred to by the statement

I don't want to be buying private jets and Bugatti Veyrons for corrupt African politicians.

walshb

Seriously though. They're throwing money at Africa for years and years and years. What are they achieving? Only recently they're asking us for more money for the new famine in Somalia. It's non stop. GOAL were on recently crapping on about how they've been there since 1983? Almost 30 years, and still they are begging? I'd like to know what the **** have they been doing all these years, because they keep telling us that it's getting worse.
If so, then **** off out of Africa, and maybe that will help Africa? Ever thought of that?

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

Yes, it helps free people from the delusion that unbacked claims are factual information.

As it stands I'd like to know what exactly is meant or referred to by the statement

caseyann simply doesn't want her money being thrown at corruption. I agree 100 percent. Why not make this aid voluntary so anyone who thinks it is a good ide, then they can say, yes, send some of my tax to fund Africa. Anyone who'd rather have that money in their back pocket can say no.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

caseyann simply doesn't want her money being thrown at corruption. I agree 100 percent. Why not make this aid voluntary so anyone who thinks it is a good ide, then they can say, yes, send some of my tax to fund Africa. Anyone who'd rather have that money in their back pocket can say no.

I didn't get to opt out when Bush came over. None of us get to opt out of bailing out the banks. Thats the way of things. I'm unaware of a functioning state that differs.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

I didn't get to opt out when Bush came over. None of us get to opt out of bailing out the banks. Thats the way of things. I'm unaware of a functioning state that differs.

That is so true ; so I guess I am ingrained in this racket for the foreseeable future:(

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

That is so true ; so I guess I am ingrained in this racket for the foreseeable future:(

Indeed you are as are we all, in every "racket" not of our choosing. Your energy might be better aimed at trying to steer the ship than sink it.

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

Indeed you are as are we all, in every "racket" not of our choosing. Your energy might be better aimed at trying to steer the ship than sink it.

No, I believe there are many causes and taxes that are good, justified and essential to a democratic society. I just happen to think that throwing money non stop year after year to Africa is getting really stale, and is doing more bloody harm than good, to us, and to them.

Turkana

Nodin wrote: »

Do you have some source to back up that claim?

It helps free people from the delusion that unbacked claims are factual information.

If you find something hard to believe... look it up. There's a handy site called www.google.com

Or are you unable to research for yourself?


http://www.bugandapost.com/main/archives/368

http://www.ugandacorrespondent.com/articles/2011/06/museveni-bought-jet-using-poverty-aid-money-uk-lord/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/184319.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002319/UK-aid-cash-helped-African-dictator-buy-30m-jet.html

JustinDee

You're quoting the Daily Mail and Press TV to try to prove a point???
Oh dear...

Rachiee

I dont see the problem with the responce received

The reason why we continue to fund uganda is that the government there was so currupt that not funding them didnt mean that they would all of a sudden start providing for their citizens, the government may be corrupt but the people living their are victims its these people irish aid helps its not like they are delivering the money to the government and sayong do with it what you like.

also we do not treat asylum seekers better than citizens asylum seekers are afforded room, board and 19 euro a week and do not have the right to work

Personally i'd rather 194 that irish citizens get

plus its extremely difficult to get refugee status, the entire system through which status is decided is corrupt anyway.

walshb

JustinDee wrote: »

You're quoting the Daily Mail and Press TV to try to prove a point???
Oh dear...

One of the four articles is from the Mail, and please, point out from that article what is wrong, falses, inaccurate etc, and what leads you to a response of, "Oh dear." Are you saying that those articles are telling lies?

Your response and criticism looks lazy to me. Back it up.

Nodin

Turkana wrote: »

If you find something hard to believe... look it up. There's a handy site called www.google.com

Or are you unable to research for yourself?


http://www.bugandapost.com/main/archives/368

http://www.ugandacorrespondent.com/articles/2011/06/museveni-bought-jet-using-poverty-aid-money-uk-lord/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/184319.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002319/UK-aid-cash-helped-African-dictator-buy-30m-jet.html

...don't see why asking for some back up and reasoning is greeted with such hostility. Anyhoo....

So essentially your argument is the usual 'don't give them money, they're corrupt'.

Laminations

Rachiee wrote: »

plus its extremely difficult to get refugee status, the entire system through which status is decided is corrupt anyway.

In the interest of balance, do you have a source for that? The corrupt claim, please back it up

JustinDee

Turkana wrote: »

I f**ing knew some whinger would have a problem with the daily mail, that's why I gave three more sources

One of which is the Iranian propaganda channel for western audiences. People have problems with the Daily Mail for a pretty valid reason. If you want to give something an air of credibility, use more reliable sources.

Turkana wrote: »

Now stop acting the maggot and tell me what part of the Daily Mail article is untrue.

You should relax with the self-righteous and condescending insults.
Maybe its true. I don't know. Neither do you, however. Personally, I doubt that cutting off aid aimed for the country's citizens would put a dent in the dictator of such a country's coffers.

Laminations

JustinDee wrote: »

One of which is the Iranian propaganda channel for western audiences. People have problems with the Daily Mail for a pretty valid reason. If you want to give something an air of credibility, use more reliable sources.

funnily enough, an anonymous unverified person posing as a Nigerian doctor in a radio interview seems to be a credible enough source when people want it to be.

If you ask for a source and someone provides it, you then criticise the source. So they can never placate you.

Play the ball and not the man, dispute whatever claims are being made in the source document. Or do you want a source for the source for the source.

djpbarry

Turkana wrote: »

Did you know that when Ireland was sending millions to Uganda, their president Yoweri Museveni bought himself a $50million luxury jet?

Did you know that while Irish people are supporting charities for the homeless such as Threshold, the Irish government is spending billions of Euros recapitalising banks? See what I did there?

Turkana wrote: »

Enough of our money is being squandered, I don't want to be buying private jets and Bugatti Veyrons for corrupt African politicians.

It’s extremely unlikely that you are. Contrary to popular belief, Irish Aid does not throw millions of Euro at corrupt governments.

Turkana wrote: »

I'm not trying to argue with Irish Aid, I'm just requesting some info.

Actually, I’d say you’re looking for an explanation to support your pre-determined conclusion. You’ve decided that Irish Aid is directly supporting corrupt regimes and you’re demanding an explanation as to why this is.

Turkana wrote: »

But then again, is anyone here actually interested in what happens to their tax money once it enters African state coffers?

You’ve yet to establish that said taxes are entering any other state coffers.

Turkana wrote: »

Not only do we support them when they come over here and give them better treatment than the Irish (I refer you to the case of Pamela Izibkibeki whatever) but we also send millions overseas to support them.

Ah, the thin veil falls away.

Turkana wrote: »

I f**ing knew some whinger would have a problem with the daily mail, that's why I gave three more sources.

Now stop acting the maggot and tell me what part of the Daily Mail article is untrue.

Here’s a better idea – why don’t you point out where, in any of those four articles, it is stated conclusively that the Irish state is funding a Ugandan dictator.

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

caseyann simply doesn't want her money being thrown at corruption. I agree 100 percent. Why not make this aid voluntary so anyone who thinks it is a good ide, then they can say, yes, send some of my tax to fund Africa. Anyone who'd rather have that money in their back pocket can say no.

Hell, let’s do that will all government spending and see how long it takes for society to collapse.

walshb wrote: »

No, I believe there are many causes and taxes that are good, justified and essential to a democratic society. I just happen to think that throwing money non stop year after year to Africa is getting really stale, and is doing more bloody harm than good, to us, and to them.

Is it? Is that just your opinion or just that popularly held belief that Africa is a homogenous ****hole and always has been?

Turkana

JustinDee wrote: »

If you want to give something an air of credibility, use more reliable sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7152545.stm

JustinDee

Turkana wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7152545.stm

Wasn't so difficult, was it?

JustinDee

Laminations wrote: »

funnily enough, an anonymous unverified person posing as a Nigerian doctor in a radio interview seems to be a credible enough source when people want it to be.

If you ask for a source and someone provides it, you then criticise the source. So they can never placate you.

Play the ball and not the man, dispute whatever claims are being made in the source document. Or do you want a source for the source for the source.

I'm pretty sure I didn't ask for any source. I laughed at links that were given in an attempt to prove a point ie. the Daily Mail and Press TV.
So you can reel it back in, thanks.

walshb

You laughed at the links, but could not in any way refute them. That's just poor on your part. Give a dog a bad name (Mail), and I guess people will just follow the flock.

ALL the links are implying the same thing.

Laminations

JustinDee wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I didn't ask for any source. I laughed at links that were given in an attempt to prove a point ie. the Daily Mail and Press TV.
So you can reel it back in, thanks.

No you asked for a source with no intention of caring about what it said, as demonstrated so aptly by your one liner throw away comment when a more 'reliable' source was given

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

The biggest problem Africa faces is western interference, non stop year after year. The continent will never heal while the West continue to try and dictate to it. Paddy plays his part, big time.

In what role? As a "Western" individual demanding cheap resources? Or a concerned citizen making (perhaps misguided) charitable donations?

walshb

djpbarry wrote: »

Or a concerned citizen making (perhaps misguided) charitable donations?

I would really question this so called concern, that Paddy and others have for people thousands of miles away. Lots and lots of these concerned folks are on ****ing ego trips. Charities sprouting up non stop year after year. I don't buy it at all. Many of these concerned folks have done **** all in their own land, yet we're meant to believe that they are concerned about poor African people? And, many are making good money on their ego tripping charity crusades. Poverty, like every other event, is big business.

I guess these concerned folks get a real buzz about playing the Big White Chief!

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

I would really question this so called concern, that Paddy and others have for people thousands of miles away. Lots and lots of these concerned folks are on ****ing ego trips. Charities sprouting up non stop year after year. I don't buy it at all. Many of these concerned folks have done **** all in their own land, yet we're meant to believe that they are concerned about poor African people? And, many are making good money on their ego tripping charity crusades. Poverty, like every other event, is big business.

I guess these concerned folks get a real buzz about playing the Big White Chief!

You didn't answer the question - in what way is the typical Irish resident directly or indirectly “interfering” in Africa?

walshb

karma_ wrote: »

I was told once that it was better to keep my mouth shut and let people think I was a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

So why are you still talking?

Turkana

Did you know that while Irish people are supporting charities for the homeless such as Threshold, the Irish government is spending billions of Euros recapitalising banks? See what I did there?

Yeah... you highlighted another scandal. So what?

Contrary to popular belief, Irish Aid does not throw millions of Euro at corrupt governments.

Ireland gave Uganda €40million in 2008.

Actually, I’d say you’re looking for an explanation to support your pre-determined conclusion. You’ve decided that Irish Aid is directly supporting corrupt regimes and you’re demanding an explanation as to why this is.

Uganda receives direct budget support from the EU. We are also indirectly funding state coffers. By carrying out functions that the government of Uganda should be doing themselves, donor countries are not only supporting corrupt regimes but encouraging laziness.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-12/european-union-cuts-uganda-budget-support-over-slow-progress-on-corruption.html

http://wildugandablog.com/2011/03/01/european-taxpayers-paid-for-musevenis-re-election/

You’ve yet to establish that said taxes are entering any other state coffers.

Read my point above.

Ah, the thin veil falls away.

What does that mean? Am I racist or something?

Here’s a better idea – why don’t you point out where, in any of those four articles, it is stated conclusively that the Irish state is funding a Ugandan dictator.

Irish Aid, the EU and America are spending millions of euros doing President Museveni's job, while he buys a luxury jet. This is actually his second gulfstream jet in ten years. How can you not see the connection?

By the way have any of you actually lived in Africa? You haven't seen the effects of corruption right before your eyes. I have, and it's quite depressing, especially when you see a nice Concern / Trocaire Toyota Hilux flying past trying to dodge poor feckers walking along the road. By the way, nobody there has heard of U2 or Bono. Funny eh? I asked loads of people.


Anyways, I will be glad to be proved wrong on this, and it actually turns out that all the reports on corruption are just typos and fake headlines made by the Lulzsec hackers.


http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Donors+cut+aid+over+fresh+funds+scandal+/-/1056/1196592/-/62ggocz/-/

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Theft+of+Sh4+6bn+for+poor+pupils++leaves+Ongeri+clutching+/-/1064/1184982/-/bfanan/-/index.html

http://protectafrica.wordpress.com/about/goal-ireland-aid-to-corrupt-governments-sustains-abuses/

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Britain++Give+us+back+our+free+primary+aid+/-/1056/1183864/-/d024avz/-/index.html

http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1204370/-/bl4lscz/-/index.html

http://www.u4.no/helpdesk/helpdesk/query.cfm?id=191

http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine/2009/mar/13/corruption-endemic-in-uganda

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/theft-and-corruption-take-malaria-drugs-away-from-africas-poorest-2094525.html

http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14019:museveni-not-committed-on-corruption&catid=34:news&Itemid=59

http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8757&Itemid=59

http://independent.co.ug/column/insight/3296-ugandas-most-corrupt-


I know some of those links are from Kenya, but it's interesting anyways.

walshb

karma_ wrote: »

I'm typing. It's good to see boards resident racist is still around though.

Was wondering when that card would be played. Tut tut. I think you should take the advice from your original post to me.

Turkana

djpbarry wrote: »

Is it? Is that just your opinion or just that popularly held belief that Africa is a homogenous ****hole and always has been?

So you've resorted to calling him a racist. That's what they call a red herring right? You've also accused me of the same thing. My respect for your input is going into the negatives.

walshb

Turkana wrote: »

So you've resorted to calling him a racist. That's what they call a red herring right? You've also accused me of the same thing. My respect for your input is going into the negatives.

karma_ did the card trick....

karma_

walshb wrote: »

karma_ did the card trick....

No tricks, your record of posting on this site is plain for anyone who wants to trawl through it.

walshb

karma_ wrote: »

No tricks, your record of posting on this site is plain for anyone who wants to trawl through it.

So, provide me with the racist posts. Thinking that the West is a cause (one cause) of Africa's problems is racist, is it?:rolleyes:
Disagreeing with incessant monetary aid to Africa makes one a racist, is that what you are saying?

You aren't that desperate, are you?

JustinDee

Laminations wrote: »

No you asked for a source with no intention of caring about what it said, as demonstrated so aptly by your one liner throw away comment when a more 'reliable' source was given

???
I didn't ask for anything.
I advised to use better links than the Mail and Press TV.