Creche closed for Funeral

twinkie

Unfortunately a lady who worked in my daughters creche passed away. The creche have deceided that they will close for the full day of the funeral. My question is should we have to pay for this day as we have to pay for alternative childcare for the day. I am not totally heartless as I understand that the workers in the creche would want to go to the funeral but we don't get paid days off to attend funerals of non family members.

The creche is also closed for a week in August and a week at christmas which we also have to pay for. I know that the workers still have to get paid but what happens if it is not possible to get time off work when the creche is closed? I can't take annual leave at christmas but am lucky that my husband can but I'm sure there are some parents that are totally inconvienced by these closures.

From talking to others in my work it seems that it is not the norm for a creche to close for a week in the summer. Christmas perhaps.

Would it be wrong for me to ask for a refund for the closed day?

Daisy M

Personally speaking I would not ask for a refund. The crech is been closed under really sad circumstances not on a whim.

Wolfe Tone

Wouldn't be wrong but it would be very bad form and tasteless in the extreme.

Incognito35

I wouldn't ask either. It is an inconvenience, but their reason for closing is genuine and it is a fitting mark of respect to a colleague to close to allow people to attend the funeral.

uberwolf

tbh they shouldn't charge though.

milehip1

Why are you paying for the 2 weeks that the creche is closed?
seems funny to me or do all creches have this policy?


I'd let the funeral day closeure slide tho

quickbeam

I certainly think it'd be in your rights to ask for a refund. But sometimes what's your right isn't the best course of action. These are the people looking after your child(ren) and it would be more political to grit your teeth and let it slide.

I know a lot of parents who have to pay for their creche even when they've taken time off. Personally I think that's terribly unfair. Of course the workers need their holiday pay too, but that should be included in the cost of the creche without having to shut down. I don't know why so many get away with this as I can't think of any other business who would make you pay for NOT giving you a service.

Moonbeam

I would be sensitive to the creche workers death.

As for paying for the holidays,this is what you signed up for and the cost would be broken down accordingly.

The creche my daughter was in closed on public holidays only and that was it and there are plenty like it so maybe if you looked in to the option of moving them?

MagicMarker

You're paying for a service and if they can't offer that service then you should get your money back, the circumstances are irrelevant.

Scarlet42

do you get paid when you are on your Hols? when you are not providing a service?

MagicMarker

Scarlet42 wrote: »

do you get paid when you are on your Hols? when you are not providing a service?

Because that's the same? Legally I'm entitled to paid holidays every year. For instance, if I had to go to a funeral, I would take a holiday. I wouldn't ask my employer to just pay me as normal nor would I expect it.

Gilda Fortune

I wouldnt embarrass myself by complaining over the funeral. and in fact i would also attend the funeral as a mark of respect .
Christmas is totally standard and the norm.
The week in summer is ridiculous, and i have never heard of it.
if your feeling this unhappy with your creches service my advise is change creches

prospect

It is normal for a creche to charge for holidays. They have to pay staff for holidays. The alternative is that you do not pay for the holidays, but the cost for all other weeks would obviously have to be increased to allow for this.

It is not normal for a creche to close during the summer though. Personally I wouldn't accept that.


With regard to the funeral, I wouldn't ask for a refund, but I would expect that the staff are getting paid for that day, i.e. not a holiday, otherwise it is money in the creche owners pocket, which would be more distasteful than asking for a days refund.

Fittle

I think it would be very immoral of you to ask for a refund for one day.

How much is one day in the creche? Maximum it is 40euro?

Your child is cared for there every day, and will probably be there for years to come if they do after school etc. I would not be able to look the staff or the manager in the face again, if I'd asked for a refund because a member of staff at the creche had died and they were all attending the funeral. Do you really have to 'pay' someone else to mind your child for that one day? Is there not a grandparent/aunt/neighbour who would do it for free?

bubbaloo

I wouldn't argue the funeral day - it would be very disrespectful.
But I would argue the week in August. It is normal enough for a creche to close for a week at Christmas and most people (not all, I know) can take leave at Christmas or know someone who can help out at that time of year.
But paying for a week in the summer when the creche is closed is fairly ridiculous. I would certainly bring that up with the manager.

My son is in creche and we pay for 51 weeks of the year. They close for 2 weeks at Christmas (so we pay for one, and not for the other). They have a number of "floating" staff to cover their own staff leave in the summer.

Hannibal Smith

No way would I ask for a refund for the funeral day. It's a mark of respect to their colleague, plenty of companies do it.

As for the summer and christmas time...our creche is closed for a week at Christmas and we have to pay for it, it's just one of those things. They're open for the rest of the year, but any time we take holidays and our son isn't in creche we have to pay for that too.

Was it not in your Contract before you signed up?

Hannibal Smith

MagicMarker wrote: »

Because that's the same? Legally I'm entitled to paid holidays every year. For instance, if I had to go to a funeral, I would take a holiday. I wouldn't ask my employer to just pay me as normal nor would I expect it.

If some one from your office died though...would you not be expected to attend the funeral? That seems pretty strange.

MagicMarker

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

If some one from your office died though...would you not be expected to attend the funeral? That seems pretty strange.

If the company would be happy to foot the bill for that then that's their perogative, but if the company shift that cost onto the customers then how is that fair?

If I book a night in a hotel next week and one of the staff members of the hotel die, should I not get a refund if the hotel decide to close on the day I'm supposed to stay? Or would it be rude and ''immoral'' to expect such a thing?

chillywilly

MagicMarker wrote: »

You're paying for a service and if they can't offer that service then you should get your money back, the circumstances are irrelevant.

Seriously? Take yourself out of your consumer rights bubble for a minute and think like an average person with a bit of empathy. It's not like they are trying to pull a fast one on the parents, it's just bad circumstance. As for the other days/weeks that they are closed, I assume that the OP knew this when her kid started so she had a choice to accept it or not.

Fittle

If someone in my job died, there's no way anyone would be expected to take a holiday. Even for any funerals that any of us have to attend, management are always respectful and allow us time off to go to funerals, without having to 'officially' take time off. No one has abused this system, and it works well in my job, and I'm sure in other organisations.

Edit; I know if someone had died in my sons creche when he was younger, I would have gone to the funeral myself! I'm sure alot of the parents are going to that funeral! A teacher in my sons school died last year (it was so sad) and there was a massive amount of parents at the school. The school closed for the day too, and even closed the day he died, as it was a tragic accident. We all had to get our kids minded by various family members etc. It's just what you do when a situation like this arises.

Scarlet42

MagicMarker wrote: »

Because that's the same? Legally I'm entitled to paid holidays every year. For instance, if I had to go to a funeral, I would take a holiday. I wouldn't ask my employer to just pay me as normal nor would I expect it.

so you would take a paid holiday?.. who would pay you for not providing a service???

Hannibal Smith

MagicMarker wrote: »

If the company would be happy to foot the bill for that then that's their perogative, but if the company shift that cost onto the customers then how is that fair?

If I book a night in a hotel next week and one of the staff members of the hotel die, should I not get a refund if the hotel decide to close on the day I'm supposed to stay? Or would it be rude and ''immoral'' to expect such a thing?

Staying in a hotel is completely different to the circumstances the OP is in. You have no direct connection or link with the hotel other than as a paying customer. With a creche, you've built up a close connection with the staff who look after your child. You may not know the woman in person who has passed, as you don't meet everyone individually, but as a mark of respect to the people who did work with her, just cut your losses and have a bit of compassion.

MagicMarker

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Staying in a hotel is completely different to the circumstances the OP is in. You have no direct connection or link with the hotel other than as a paying customer. With a creche, you've built up a close connection with the staff who look after your child. You may not know the woman in person who has passed, as you don't meet everyone individually, but as a mark of respect to the people who did work with her, just cut your losses and have a bit of compassion.

Fine, in that case, maybe I've stayed in the hotel once per month for the last 5 years and I know the receptionist, barman and porter by name. Would it still be wrong of me to expect my money back?

MagicMarker

Scarlet42 wrote: »

so you would take a paid holiday?.. who would pay you for not providing a service???

My employer obviously, what has that go to do with anything? The question isn't whether the employer should or should not pay their employees when not in work, the question is whether that cost should be shifted onto the customer.

amdublin

I think it would be a mean gesture of you to ask for refund.

Hannibal Smith

MagicMarker wrote: »

Fine, in that case, maybe I've stayed in the hotel once per month for the last 5 years and I know the receptionist, barman and porter by name. Would it still be wrong of me to expect my money back?

Yes it would. If you've established a rapport with the staff of the hotel and if they couldn't arrange another night for you in lieu of the one you've lost, yes I think it would be pretty mean spirited to expect a refund. Anyway, chances are, you could stay another night in another hotel, so what would the big deal be?

Noo

A while ago I had an appointment half way across the country. On the train a man had a heart attack and dropped dead there and then, horribly upsetting stuff. Due to that the train was obviously delayed for quite a while and whatnot causing me to run late for the rest of the day. I was unable to catch my return train home (after spending €30 on a return fare) and had to pay about €12 for the bus. As someone who was on €40 a week thats actually quite a lot. It did annoy me a little but i just thought the cost of my extra fares was nothing compared to what that man's family were going through.

My point is things like this happen, try not to just see it from your point of view and remember that these creche workers have just lost one of their friends.

MagicMarker

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Yes it would. If you've established a rapport with the staff of the hotel and if they couldn't arrange another night for you in lieu of the one you've lost, yes I think it would be pretty mean spirited to expect a refund. Anyway, chances are, you could stay another night in another hotel, so what would the big deal be?

The big deal being I'd have paid for 2 nights in a hotel and only got one. How is that not clear!?

No wonder the country's in the shítter when people are so willing to piss away their money. I don't know about you but I'm not in a position to just forget about the cost of a night in a hotel, let alone have to stump even more money for a different hotel!

Hannibal Smith

MagicMarker wrote: »

The big deal being I'd have paid for 2 nights in a hotel and only got one. How is that not clear!?

No wonder the country's in the shítter when people are so willing to piss away their money. I don't know about you but I'm not in a position to just forget about the cost of a night in a hotel, let alone have to stump even more money for a different hotel!

Where did I say that your point wasn't clear? I just think it's rather mean spirited.

I couldn't give a monkeys what you do with your hotel rooms tbh...the whole point is, the OP, in my opinion, shouldn't ask for a refund from their child's creche in the circumstances. That is all. If that means the country goes down the pan, then so be it :P

Fittle

MagicMarker wrote: »

The big deal being I'd have paid for 2 nights in a hotel and only got one. How is that not clear!?

No wonder the country's in the shítter when people are so willing to piss away their money. I don't know about you but I'm not in a position to just forget about the cost of a night in a hotel, let alone have to stump even more money for a different hotel!

That is just a ridiculous argument - the country is not in the ****ter because creche staff die and parents have to pay for the day their child isn't in creche. Your comparison to booking a hotel room is also way off. It's not comparable.

Justask

Its one day...surely this is very insenstive to even think of asking for the money for one day

MagicMarker

Fittle wrote: »

That is just a ridiculous argument - the country is not in the ****ter because creche staff die and parents have to pay for the day their child isn't in creche. Your comparison to booking a hotel room is also way off. It's not comparable.

Explain to me how my analogy is in no way comparable.

Tabnabs

MagicMarker would it be fair to say that you don't have kids and/or have never had children in a crèche?

Your posts come across as very juvenile and incredibly mean spirited. I would suggest that your comment about the country being in the state it's in could be equally applied to your thinking, it's completely selfish and lacks any compassion. It's more me féin and less is féidir linn. It's that kind of attitude that got us to where we are today TBH.

OP, maybe you could look at this funeral day and take a positive out of it. Spend some quality time with your child and think about how terrible it must be for the family of the deceased. As there say, there but for the grace of God...

Fittle

MagicMarker wrote: »

Explain to me how my analogy is in no way comparable.

It's already been explained to you by a previous poster.

Daisy M

MagicMarker wrote: »

You're paying for a service and if they can't offer that service then you should get your money back, the circumstances are irrelevant.

Its great to see that your callous attitude is shared by nobody else on this tread, restores my faith in humanity that your opinion on matters like this appears to be in the minority.

stovelid

Sometimes a few quid back in your pocket shouldn't be at the cost of decency and respect. While creches do provide a service, it's not like a supermakret or car-hire company: they're providing care to your children. I have great time for the two women that look after my sons and my sons love them. If one of them died, it would rank considerably higher than a financial inconvenience.

Note: if anybody answers this, I'm only really intetested in the opinions of creche-using parents, thx.

MagicMarker

is mise astra wrote: »

Its great to see that your callous attitude is shared by nobody else on this tread, restores my faith in humanity that your opinion on matters like this appears to be in the minority.

Cry me a river, this is the same callous attitude that wouldn't even need people to request a refund, because I would immediately reimburse anyone who had paid for services which I am unable to provide.

And it's got nothing to do with a ''few quid'' in my back pocket, child care is expensive enough in this country. There will probably be people really effected by this, who don't have the money to spare that now have to fork out extra for an alternative. To even think that these people are ''immoral'' or ''callous'' if they were to ask for a refund is ridiculous beyond the extreme.

Fittle

MagicMarker wrote: »

Cry me a river, this is the same callous attitude that wouldn't even need people to request a refund, because I would immediately reimburse anyone who had paid for services which I am unable to provide.

And it's got nothing to do with a ''few quid'' in my back pocket, child care is expensive enough in this country. There will probably be people really effected by this, who don't have the money to spare that now have to fork out extra for an alternative. To even think that these people are ''immoral'' or ''callous'' if they were to ask for a refund is ridiculous beyond the extreme.

A member of staff has died.
They are closing to go to her funeral.
It's like not they have a leak in their roof:rolleyes:

I doubt very much that the OP has to pay someone else for one days childcare. No other professional childcare facility would take a child in for one day anyway. The OP will probably not have to fork out extra for an alternative and will probably ask a neighbour/family/friend to mind the child.

Ayla

Fittle wrote: »

The OP will probably not have to fork out extra for an alternative and will probably ask a neighbour/family/friend to mind the child.

Or would have to take the day off of work themselves, thus losing a holiday day or taking a day unpaid.

Hannibal Smith

MagicMarker wrote: »

Cry me a river, this is the same callous attitude that wouldn't even need people to request a refund, because I would immediately reimburse anyone who had paid for services which I am unable to provide.

And it's got nothing to do with a ''few quid'' in my back pocket, child care is expensive enough in this country. There will probably be people really effected by this, who don't have the money to spare that now have to fork out extra for an alternative. To even think that these people are ''immoral'' or ''callous'' if they were to ask for a refund is ridiculous beyond the extreme.

Really effected by this how? You pay your creche fees in standard monthly/weekly instalments so it's like money out of your account already. it's like asking your landlord to refund you your rent when you're gone on holiday

When some one has died you don't start spouting about your own out of pocket expenses, it's just bad manners! Is that what the country has come to now, household budgets take precedents over common courtesy?

If you're that selfish to start harping on about how much that effects you, then I really have no sympathy for you at all. My sympathy would be reserved for the families and friends of the lady who died.

Hannibal Smith

Ayla wrote: »

Or would have to take the day off of work themselves, thus losing a holiday day or taking a day unpaid.

you do that when your kid is sick anyhow. When you're a working parent you take these unforeseen eventualities on the chin.

Ayla

I think the point MagicMarker is trying to make is that the creche (although for very valid reasons) did not provide a service on a day that they've charged their customers for. The annual holidays would have been contractually agreed upon at the start, but for the creche to close at a moment's notice (be it for a funeral or a leaky roof) they would still be legally entitled to collect payment from their customers.

For those customers who can't afford a day off work, or don't have a support/family network, or have to double pay for a sitter, I can understand why someone would look for a refund for that day.

Now, don't jump on me, I understand there is a very human element in this particular situation, but try to take it out of that context for a moment - would anyone be looking for a refund if the creche closed due to a leaking roof?

it's like asking your landlord to refund you your rent when you're gone on holiday

No it's not - in your situation the paying customer is choosing not to use the service they're paying for. A more accurate comparison would be if you're paying your rent but the landlord uses the space to house someone else for the weekend.

Justask

How much are we talking about here? I dont have a child in creche.

How much is one day creche fees?

Some people are making out they are missing out on hundreds

Ayla

When my daughter was in creche a few years ago it was €35/day.

Can't speak for anyone else, but that's big money for us if it's being wasted paying for a service that's not being provided.

Fittle

Justask wrote: »

How much are we talking about here? I dont have a child in creche.

How much is one day creche fees?

Some people are making out they are missing out on hundreds

Maximum of 40euro I would imagine:rolleyes:

Fittle

Ayla wrote: »

Or would have to take the day off of work themselves, thus losing a holiday day or taking a day unpaid.

Which is what working parents tend to use their annual leave for anyway! I know I do! I had to take a day off the day the teacher died at my sons school - but I most certainly wasn't complaining about about 'losing' a days annual leave when there was a whole classroom of boys devastated at the loss of their teacher and a wife and children devastated at the loss of their father/husband. Seriously, get things in perspective and have some human decency!

Shelli2

Ayla wrote: »

Now, don't jump on me, I understand there is a very human element in this particular situation, but try to take it out of that context for a moment - would anyone be looking for a refund if the creche closed due to a leaking roof?

Its not possible to take it out of that context, that's what the OPS question is, should she pay if they close for a funeral?
Answer: yes. (legally probably not, but morally yes)

leaking roof, no way. but that's not the question.

The relationship a person had with their childrens creche is unlike any other business, and not comparable to any other situation. These are people you trust your childrens lives and well being to every day!

Noo

Another question is how many parents would except a refund?

How would you react if you got a letter or something saying that due to the death of a member of staff we will be closing for the day of the funeral. All parents will be refunded for that one day.

Tbh i'd feel pretty sh*tty about that and tell them not to worry about it.

Justask

Ok so let say 35 40 euro.... its one day, its not as if it happens all the time. A staff member died.... were is the compassion

Everyone is struggling in this counrty at the moment but for god sake lets put things into prospective. Its called respect

Ayla

Geez, don't make me out to be a callous cow here. I understand the tragedy of the situation, and if it were me personally I'd probably let it slide too.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't judge other people too harshly if they look for their money back.

I'm not generally in the habit of paying for services I don't receive, but in this situation it would be hard on everyone involved if the refund of money was discussed. Personally, if I was the creche owner, after the shock passes, I would take it upon myself to refund the customers myself...that's good for professional reputation and future business. It would be up to the creche then to absorb whatever costs of not being open for the day would have been...why should the customer pay?

sellerbarry

Jasus i've heard it all now. What a heartless, disrespectful thread to start OP. The woman died for gods sake.:rolleyes: