Making a Complaint

Wompa1

I know some students who are currently doing funded post grads and are committing fraud when it comes to expenses. I'm contemplating making a complaint but have no idea at what level I should raise this?

Department, University or Government.

As the students in question are doing courses which are government funded, should and are these expenses all on public record? If so how might one get access to these?

hopa

What type of fraud? How do you know for sure. Are you sure you understand how expenses are paid?

Wompa1

So....Nothing? I e-mailed the minister for Education a few times and got a couple generic mails back. Surely all of this stuff should be made public?

meeka

Well, I'm under the impression that while some postgraduate courses may be government funded, funding for extra things like conferences, trips etc. come from the department itself, ie, other sources of funding. This may not be the case here though, I don't know. If all your department's expenses are government funded, I don't think expenses like these are publicly available - do you expect to be able to read through records of what who has been buying/doing, and where?

Either way, you'd probably get more of a response/reaction if you just brought the issue to the head of your department and mentioned it.

Not that it makes it better, but as far as I am aware, this sort of thing is not uncommon.

Wompa1

meeka wrote: »

Well, I'm under the impression that while some postgraduate courses may be government funded, funding for extra things like conferences, trips etc. come from the department itself, ie, other sources of funding. This may not be the case here though, I don't know. If all your department's expenses are government funded, I don't think expenses like these are publicly available - do you expect to be able to read through records of what who has been buying/doing, and where?

Either way, you'd probably get more of a response/reaction if you just brought the issue to the head of your department and mentioned it.

Not that it makes it better, but as far as I am aware, this sort of thing is not uncommon.

Thanks. Unfortunately I know of other instances in which it seemed the people were taking holidays from their expenses. I hear what you are saying, the funding may be from the department but I know for this particular department the funding is from the government regardless, so it's down to us tax payers to foot the bill

Wompa1

Finally got a reply nearly 6 weeks later.

Universities are autonomous statutory bodies and academically independent institutions. The Department is unable to get directly involved in the day to day operational affairs of universities and you should correspond with NUI, Galway on specific matters of concern.

so basically the government is throwing money down a hole and don't ask any f'kin questions about it. So now my recourse is to contact the university which we all know is already corrupt to the core and rely on them doing something about it...unbelievable.

leeroybrown

If you're willing to pursue this then the correct path is to document what happened then make an internal complaint within NUIG. You're unlikely to get anyone else outside of NUIG to listen to you until you've actually gone and taken this step. Once the School and College have failed to deal with it you can then push it further up the chain towards the University Management Team.

Beyond that you can then start to send formal letters to government bodies, funding agencies, etc.

...and finally when they've all told you to pfo you can start forcing them to do something about it by contacting TDs, Ministers, etc. There'll also be a joint Seanad committee with investigative powers in the area.

Don't expect it to be easy...

Wompa1

leeroybrown wrote: »

If you're willing to pursue this then the correct path is to document what happened then make an internal complaint within NUIG. You're unlikely to get anyone else outside of NUIG to listen to you until you've actually gone and taken this step. Once the School and College have failed to deal with it you can then push it further up the chain towards the University Management Team.

Beyond that you can then start to send formal letters to government bodies, funding agencies, etc.

...and finally when they've all told you to pfo you can start forcing them to do something about it by contacting TDs, Ministers, etc. There'll also be a joint Seanad committee with investigative powers in the area.

Don't expect it to be easy...

Thanks, I'll follow your plan. I'm going to try and do it without naming names but if I have to I will.

leeroybrown

Wompa1 wrote: »

Thanks, I'll follow your plan. I'm going to try and do it without naming names but if I have to I will.

One piece of advice. There's no such thing as a secret in a University so once you start down the path of making a complaint it will inevitably become common knowledge among people you have to work with. Not trying to dissuade you, just reminding you of the way things are...

Wompa1

leeroybrown wrote: »

One piece of advice. There's no such thing as a secret in a University so once you start down the path of making a complaint it will inevitably become common knowledge among people you have to work with. Not trying to dissuade you, just reminding you of the way things are...

Thanks again. Not to worry my academic career is over. I work in the private sector and have done for 4 years and I'm not really concerned about ruffling peoples feathers. With the amount of tax I'm paying I think it's important for people to stand up when they know somethings wrong

39steps

Hey,
I know where you're coming from and think the University authorities will want to know. I suggest going straight to the top, contact the President's Office. If you go the School or College route, it can be too parochial. The President's Office is in the quad, either go there or phone them.

StupidLikeAFox

How exactly do you get on one of these courses which go to las vegas?

Euskadi1888

Nobody likes a snitch

poisonated

haha why did they hold it in Vegas. What did they expect to happen. That sounds amazing.

doctorchick

Wompa1 wrote: »

Getting money to go to Las Vegas for a 4 day conference and only going to half a day and getting pissed for the rest of it. Flights and accomodation were paid for by the tax payer.

How do you know they only went to half a day ? Were you a witness to the entire 3.5 day drinking spell - if so, then surely you were skipping the conference also. If not, then how can you be sure they spent the entire time drinking ? Could there not have been break out sessions that they were at and you weren't ?

Have you got absolute and undisputable proof that they were on the piss for the other 3.5 days ? If not this is going to be your word against theirs and am sorry but this is just not going to fly, particularly as you are not even in the college anymore. During their getting pissed were they interacting with other conference participants ? It could be seen that they were networking with other participants and that is just as essential at conferences as attending presentations/poster sessions etc. I know when I am networking at conferences a significant amount of drink is consumed, and before anyone makes comments, I NEVER put an expenses claim in for alcohol at conferences.

Your postings sounds like you have a personal beef against these students and NUIG in general (your statements about NUIG being corrupt to the care for instance).

I think a word of caution here too, you have made accusations that a group of students were committing fraud and that the university is corrupt to the core. Defammatory statements if I have ever heard them.

JonSnuuu

Just a question to the OP.

What are you hoping to come of this complaint? Do you want to see them kicked out of college?

If so, I don't really see your point. I mean if they are doing a government funded course then probably the guts of 10,000 euro of taxpayers money was spent each year on it. If your complaint was to be successful and they were expelled from the college thousands of euros would have gone to waste, a lot more than would have been wasted on a 4 day trip to Las Vegas where they reportedly did nothing.

Also if you were to make such a complaint more tax payers money would be spent investigating it.

Basically my point is, you seem to complain about the fact that the tax payer payed for this, but the tax payer will have to pay a lot more if you go through with it.

ru437z9t8fidq2

Wompa1 wrote: »

I know some students who are currently doing funded post grads and are committing fraud when it comes to expenses. I'm contemplating making a complaint but have no idea at what level I should raise this?

Department, University or Government.

As the students in question are doing courses which are government funded, should and are these expenses all on public record? If so how might one get access to these?

Have you really that much spare time that you can go out of your way to make other people's lives more difficult? There's no way you are just complaining about this because your worried where your taxes are going. I mean if your that passionate, get into politics and try to make a change or something. I'm sure there's a more personal reason. Sad enough like.

svicks

Wompa1 wrote: »

Thanks again. Not to worry my academic career is over. I work in the private sector and have done for 4 years and I'm not really concerned about ruffling peoples feathers. With the amount of tax I'm paying I think it's important for people to stand up when they know somethings wrong

With the amount of tax you're paying, wouldn't your time be better spent looking for a way to fool the government into paying for your holidays? Anybody in Ireland that has money at the moment is being taxed out of their arse by our financial overlords. Fair play to any peons who have found a way to get some cash flowing in the other direction.

SparKing

I think the op is dead right to bring this matter to the attention of the relevant authority If their facts are correct.
The op was there and seems to be very sure of the facts, so all the negative responses are pretty much saying that if you can get away with having a taxpayer funded holiday then more power to you.
There are far better uses for our tax Euros, also while it may be a bit of a stretch to say the University is corrupt to the core, I have heard a story or two to suggest that the old boys club way of doing things that has served us so well in the (recent) past is alive and well in NUIG.

gant0

And you think reporting them is gonna make you pay less tax?.If it'd make you feel better just imagine your taxes went towards something meaningful.This kinda **** happens all over the world and no one will ever be able to stop it so unless it's directly interfering with you stop worrying about.

challengemaster

gant0 wrote: »

And you think reporting them is gonna make you pay less tax?.If it'd make you feel better just imagine your taxes went towards something meaningful.This kinda **** happens all over the world and no one will ever be able to stop it so unless it's directly interfering with you stop worrying about.

Yeah, because the country has gotten on brilliant in recent years with the approach of "change nothing, ignore blatent fraud" :rolleyes:

irishdude11

So I take it OP as you are so keen on reporting people that you report all the people you know who illegaly download movies and music? Or software? And I take it you also report people you know who don't pay their TV license? And I take it if one of your sibilngs or cousins happened to be in the situation of going on a pissup at a college-funded conference you would report them too? Seeing as how you are so concerned about 'fraud'. Or is it handier just to mess up the lives of a few strangers?

Wompa1

irishdude11 wrote: »

So I take it OP as you are so keen on reporting people that you report all the people you know who illegaly download movies and music? Or software? And I take it you also report people you know who don't pay their TV license? And I take it if one of your sibilngs or cousins happened to be in the situation of going on a pissup at a college-funded conference you would report them too? Seeing as how you are so concerned about 'fraud'. Or is it handier just to mess up the lives of a few strangers?

I'm really suprised at the response...Firstly I was not meant to be at the conference, I am not a student and I do pay taxes so it impacts on me. I currently don't know anybody who downloads music or movies illegally for the simple fact none of my friends are that big into computers. I don't ask people if they pay their tv license, I pay mine, not happy about it but I do it.

I want to complain about blantent abuse of tax payers money and the response is to stay out of it. That's pretty unbelievable...is this because most on here don't pay taxes yet or what is the rationale?

NUI Galway SU

If a student wishes to make a complaint they should look up the Student Complaints Procedure, linked here: http://www.nuigalway.ie/vp/sshr/Student_Complaints_Procedure_Pages_and_Files/student_complaints_procedure.html

They could also refer to the Code of Conduct, linked here: http://www.nuigalway.ie/codeofconduct/#section5

For any queries about how to make a complaint, students should contact either Student Services (http://nuigalway.ie/student-services/) or call in to the Student Contact Centre in Áras Ui Chathail (http://nuigalway.ie/student-contact-centre/)

The SU sabbatical officers are available to advise on these options. Conor Healy is Education Officer, and can be emailed on su.education@nuigalway.ie

Hope that helps.


Emmet Connolly
SU President

Wompa1

NUI Galway SU wrote: »

If a student wishes to make a complaint they should look up the Student Complaints Procedure, linked here: http://www.nuigalway.ie/vp/sshr/Student_Complaints_Procedure_Pages_and_Files/student_complaints_procedure.html

They could also refer to the Code of Conduct, linked here: http://www.nuigalway.ie/codeofconduct/#section5

For any queries about how to make a complaint, students should contact either Student Services (http://nuigalway.ie/student-services/) or call in to the Student Contact Centre in Áras Ui Chathail (http://nuigalway.ie/student-contact-centre/)

The SU sabbatical officers are available to advise on these options. Conor Healy is Education Officer, and can be emailed on su.education@nuigalway.ie

Hope that helps.


Emmet Connolly
SU President

Thanks for your reply. I assume this is the same for non-students? I am not a student of the University.

NUI Galway SU

Wompa1 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I assume this is the same for non-students? I am not a student of the University.

Not exactly. It's probably worth you're while contacting Graduate Studies if you're not a student, and see what they have to say: http://www.nuigalway.ie/graduatestudies/Contacts/graduate_studies_staff.html

The Student Contact Centre is the clearing house for general inquiries so you can always just give them a call and they should be able to point you in the right direction.

theintern

Just for a bit of perspective on this, academic conferences intentionally are held in places that people will want to go, the idea is to present research, but it doesn't hurt if you get to do it in a nice place.

Several conferences are held in Las Vegas as an extra incentive to get people to submit papers to them. Sometimes, people will extend their trip and schedule their return flight a week later than the conference to make a bit of a holiday out of the trip.

An important point is, research funding covers travel expenses, food and accommodation while you are attending the conference. Much like private companies would do for business trips. Theses expenses must be vouched for with receipts provided. Alcohol may not be claimed for. These rules are enforced quite vigilantly. If you stay an extra few days, you may only claim sustenance expenses for the days you are attending the conference.

If you are at a conference, you are under no obligation to do anything, bar present your paper. I assume in this case the researchers presented their paper, and didn't take go to any other sessions, which is a bit stupid, but technically, there isn't anything wrong with it.

My main point is, if the researchers had gone to the conference properly, as they are entitled to if they have been published, it costs the same amount of funding as it does if they don't go to any talks and go on the piss, since they can't claim any extra money that wouldn't have been otherwise claimed. So, what's the issue here?

39steps

Hi Wompa1

Whether you're a student, University staff member or a member of the public, I would encourage to contact the President's Office directly.

He is very keen to "clean up" any areas of perceived or actual wrongful actions and would want to know.

Email, phone or write to him: Jimmie Browne, President, NUI Galway.

39steps

tribesman78

I agree with the OP on this. Granted i think there could be more spent through investigation but there will be savings made. If students, lecturers get wind of people being punished for possible fraudulent claims(I say possible as the people in question may be innocent and claiming what they are allowed for what is expected of them) then can you imagine the reaction from others who may decide i'm not going to risk making a fraudulent claim as i might get reported or punished. So if as suggested that this is common practice it may reduce the amount of fraudulent claims.

Wompa1

Figured I'd update this since I read the story below today. I tried to contact the President over a month ago and have not received a reply other than a generic automated response. In light of the below story I also doubt he's the man to go to now....f'kin typical!

NUIG DEFENDS PRESIDENT'S EXPENSES BILL
August 23, 2011 - 10:33am
NUIG DEFENDS PRESIDENT'S EXPENSES BILL

NUI Galway has defended its President's expenses bill for last year.

President Jim Browne spent 150 thousand euro from his office in 2010 according to figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.

NUIG President Jim Browne's office spent over 21 thousand euro on travel and subsistence payments, of which over 12 thousand was paid directly to him for mileage or travel costs.

His office also spent 14,600 on hospitality and over 4,000 euro on gifts for visitors.

In a statement to Galway Bay FM News, college authorities said the spend was offset by "significant benefits" for the university through international partnerships and activities.

leeroybrown

Wompa1 wrote: »

In light of the below story I also doubt he's the man to go to now....f'kin typical!

In all fairness, if you had to travel as much and run the list of official President's Office events that a University President does you wouldn't be long running up a similarly large bill.

Wompa1

leeroybrown wrote: »

Wompa1 wrote: »

In light of the below story I also doubt he's the man to go to now....f'kin typical!

In all fairness, if you had to travel as much and run the list of official President's Office events that a University President does you wouldn't be long running up a similarly large bill.

Alright guys. Have Finally got the chance to meet with the university so will meet them and discuss the hear say and some of the hard evidence I have and will keep people updated here.

Skopzz

Wompa,

You can make a complaint about the many quangos at NUIG who are non-productive in their jobs and still get a pay rise, are non-dismissable, inefficient, corrupt etc.

NUIG is FULL of these type of people in all departments and administration - so glad they are cutting their pay. The next step will be that the Government can fire them if they under-perform in their jobs or receive many complaints about them.

Afterall, there must be accountability. Nobody should be given any special treatment just because they are a lecturer/office clerk, etc.

Wompa1

Skopzz wrote: »

Wompa,

You can make a complaint about the many quangos at NUIG who are non-productive in their jobs and still get a pay rise, are non-dismissable, inefficient, corrupt etc.

NUIG is FULL of these type of people in all departments and administration - so glad they are cutting their pay. The next step will be that the Government can fire them if they under-perform in their jobs or receive many complaints about them.

Afterall, there must be accountability. Nobody should be given any special treatment just because they are a lecturer/office clerk, etc.

Why don't we all work together? It can't be that difficult? I'm sick of some people getting an easy life at my expense while I work like a dog and get less. These people don't deserve it and its about time they get called out on it. I might get my name dragged through the dirt for this but I have hard facts and evidence to present. If they still do nothing than there's a massive problem which ill state here

Skopzz

Wompa1 wrote: »

Why don't we all work together? It can't be that difficult? I'm sick of some people getting an easy life at my expense while I work like a dog and get less. These people don't deserve it and its about time they get called out on it. I might get my name dragged through the dirt for this but I have hard facts and evidence to present. If they still do nothing than there's a massive problem which ill state here

Why don't the overpaid civil servant's in NUIG work together?!? FYI, they ARE working together already. Thought that was obvious... But you won't complain about them? Without the students, the University would close tomorrow and there would be no Lecturers in their cushy over-paid jobs with guaranteed pay rises every year and endless expenses. Well done.

Skopzz

Wompa1 wrote: »

I'm complaining about a head of department too. My main beef is with the system rather than the students. If someone can get away with a free holiday in Las Vegas or carrying out unethical practices with their thesis or studies than the main blame should fall on the University. Should resonate through University, Department and student and policies be put in place so it doesn't happen again.

Do you really think the University public servants will actually implement any of that? They are lazy and inept - it will never happen. Therefore, cutting their pay and having them fired will enable a more efficient system that will be fit for purpose.

The services in NUIG are crap because the College has to divert that money into the bloated wages of staff.

Khannie

Temp closing this thread. I'll be back.

Khannie

Righto....this reads as a load of unsubstantiated rant. There was no need to give any details about the alleged waste of taxpayers money etc. I don't think it would take much to determine who you're talking about and then we're into potential slander. This thread wont be opened again. Don't start another one like it. In future if you're concerned with how you should go about finding out about these things, ask a neutral, non-specific question (as you more or less did in the opening post) and then leave it at that regarding details.