Interval Training

etymon

hi all

basically, I started running in January having never done any exercise in my life, pretty much. I started running one minute on and five off and - long story short - can do a 10km now without much difficulty. I run about four or five 8km runs each week, at a pace of about six minutes per kilometer.

I have lost weight and all that but have problems with the tummy area still a cousin of mine advised interval training and I have been doing 3 minute jog warmup, then 20 second flat out sprint --> 40 second jog - repeat by ten - and ten sets is the maximum I can do. It's about 2 and 1/3 km run in total.

My lungs feel like they're gonna explode, I feel like I want to get sick... basically a twelve-minute workout leaves me wrecked. Is this normal? does anyone have any advice on how to build this up - maybe change the interval timing? I mean I would have though I am now reasonably fit but I feel like a little baby after this carry-on :mad:

ray jay

You're not really supposed to do that style of interval training for very long anyway, plus it's not like you need to do it every day. You could alternate your longer runs on one day with intervals on the other. Changing the timing is fine too. You'll get better at it over time if you keep doing it.

If you search this forum or the athletics forum, I'm sure you'll find threads covering this topic in more detail.

Nwm2

etymon wrote: »

hi all

basically, I started running in January having never done any exercise in my life, pretty much. I started running one minute on and five off and - long story short - can do a 10km now without much difficulty. I run about four or five 8km runs each week, at a pace of about six minutes per kilometer.

I have lost weight and all that but have problems with the tummy area still a cousin of mine advised interval training and I have been doing 3 minute jog warmup, then 20 second flat out sprint --> 40 second jog - repeat by ten - and ten sets is the maximum I can do. It's about 2 and 1/3 km run in total.

My lungs feel like they're gonna explode, I feel like I want to get sick... basically a twelve-minute workout leaves me wrecked. Is this normal? does anyone have any advice on how to build this up - maybe change the interval timing? I mean I would have though I am now reasonably fit but I feel like a little baby after this carry-on :mad:

To be specific, this is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT), to be distinguished from many other types of interval training. HIIT is intended to be all out maximal efforts - just like you're doing.

Except I have some bad news for you. You're not doing it hard enough! You're giving yourself too much recovery. The original Tabata (google this) protocol was 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, with eight reps.

I do this on a treadmill with max speed and max incline selected. I drop the incline as I work through the sets in order to be able to finish. Yes, my lungs are fit to explode and I end up lying on the ground trying to recover.

HIIT is good for a certain period of time to give your fitness a boost, I wouldn't solely do it for a long period of time but I do blocks of it.

Results show good results for aerobic fitness and fat loss compared to aerobic exercise (at least on less highly trained people) - unexpected based on the small volume of work that you do.

HOWEVER, HIIT is not the answer to the fat on your midsection. HIIT is about a specific way to increase fitness, that's the best way to think about it.

You want the silver bullet for bodyfat? Diet.

etymon

Whhaaaat?! Harder? Man, I don't think that's possible! But I'll research what you said and try for 20 secs on, 10 off!
In terms of diet, I'm on 1600 cals a day, off the booze and still no tum tum moving any diet tips that don't involve insane lack of carbs or fruit? Cause I can't go without fruit and porridge.

This fitness business is hard!

Mellor

Nwm2 wrote: »

Except I have some bad news for you. You're not doing it hard enough! You're giving yourself too much recovery. The original Tabata (google this) protocol was 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, with eight reps.

There is nothing wrong with a 1:2 work:rest ratio. It's still HIIT.
Even up to 1min hard, 2 min recovery can be considered HIIT. You will still benefit.
Regular intervals would be much lower intensity, like tempo runs or other cardio work.
HIIT isn't the same as Tabata, dispite how the phrase is used these days. And there's no need to copy the 20:10 ratio of Tabata.

And Tabata was much more complex than simply 20:10 seconds. There were pretty strict controls for heart rate and it involved a bike not running. People doing 8 rounds of 20:10 boxing/kettlebells/skipping/etc aren't doing tabata.

Hanley

Mellor wrote: »

And Tabata was much more complex than simply 20:10 seconds. There were pretty strict controls for heart rate and it involved a bike not running. People doing 8 rounds of 20:10 boxing/kettlebells/skipping/etc aren't doing tabata.

This. Everytime I see Tabata mentioned I just expect it to be some bastardised version of HIIT where peopel have completely missed the point of what the scientists were trying to achieve.

OP, you've been running for ages and made great changes. Now you've stalled. More running won't fix that. The kcal demands from a few long runs during the week aren't going to be that different to that of a few HIIT sessions.

HIIT is great for 'fitness' when programmed correctly, but you need to look at diet, or perhaps resistance training now to start making changes to your appearance.

discus

Can the timing of tabata be transferred over to other exercises for a similar result? I remember reading kevpants log and he was tabata-ing front squats!

I was actually passing through Tabata a few days ago, and didn't see anyone sprinting and recovering. So disappointed.

Hanley

discus wrote: »

Can the timing of tabata be transferred over to other exercises for a similar result? I remember reading kevpants log and he was tabata-ing front squats!

I was actually passing through Tabata a few days ago, and didn't see anyone sprinting and recovering. So disappointed.

Tabata was the head of the study... So eh... unless you're a big dirty poop, I don't wanna know how you passed thru him

As for timing, yeah do whatever you want with it. But the whole idea of his study was that the number of intervals and level of resistance on the erg were monitored and modified to maintain a certain wattage output and VO2 range as far as I remember.

So you can use the timing, but you're not going to be doing the same thing.

Nwm2

Mellor wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a 1:2 work:rest ratio. It's still HIIT.
Even up to 1min hard, 2 min recovery can be considered HIIT. You will still benefit.
Regular intervals would be much lower intensity, like tempo runs or other cardio work.
HIIT isn't the same as Tabata, dispite how the phrase is used these days. And there's no need to copy the 20:10 ratio of Tabata.

And Tabata was much more complex than simply 20:10 seconds. There were pretty strict controls for heart rate and it involved a bike not running. People doing 8 rounds of 20:10 boxing/kettlebells/skipping/etc aren't doing tabata.

I said he WAS doing HIIT and I never said there was anything wrong with a 1:2 work ratio, per se. I don't equate Tabata and HIIT - actually I'm probably one of the few (along with yourself and Hanley I'm sure) who has read the full study - I have it here on my PC along with a myriad of other HIIT studies.

You think it matters that the Tabata study used an ergometer rather than running - so that the lessons can't be applied to running? While I would agree that "boxing/kettlebells/skipping/etc aren't doing tabata", it's not because they aren't using an ergometer.

He is doing 10 intervals and asked for "advice on how to build this up - maybe change the interval timing".

My advice to him was to reduce the recovery period - sound advice for what he is specifically doing. Research shows that a relatively long recovery period, coupled with a very short work interval, gives lesser benefit. This is because there is a certain ramp-up period required to hit >>100% VO2max and the acumulated time at that level will be small if you getting towards full recovery after only 20 seconds of work.

frag420

Quick question............

I was told that for increase fitness and weightloss(alongside my new diet) tha interval training would be the way to go.

I have been doing the c25k programme recently to increase stamina when running.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any apps for the Iphone similar to the c25k app but for interval training instead?

Cheers

frAg

etymon

frag420 wrote: »

Quick question............

I was told that for increase fitness and weightloss(alongside my new diet) tha interval training would be the way to go.

I have been doing the c25k programme recently to increase stamina when running.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any apps for the Iphone similar to the c25k app but for interval training instead?

Cheers

frAg

Hey
The Nike pro app is great for running and intervals timer pro ( 79c) is great for intervals as you can play it over music.

What kind of diet are you on then?

Clearlier

You feelings after interval training are about right. I'd be careful of doing too much though - greater risk of injury. Mix up your routine. There's also something to be said for paces in between slow and intervals

Have you actually stalled and are stuck with a tummy that you want to get rid of? Losing weight takes time and the last bits take the longest. If you have actually stalled then you need to modify you cals in/cals out ratio either by reducing the in or increasing the out if you want to get lighter..

frag420

etymon wrote: »

Hey
The Nike pro app is great for running and intervals timer pro ( 79c) is great for intervals as you can play it over music.

What kind of diet are you on then?

cheers for that, I shall download it later.

As for Diet well I have changed a few things up a little. I have increased my fruit and veg intake daily from practically none to a more than none.

For breaky I have either porridge or a berry(rasb,blue & Straw) with greek yogurt & water.

Lunch is chicken or lean beef with loads of veg(peas, carrot, grean beans)

Dinner is something similar to lunch.

Snacks in work are generally a few apples, handfull of nuts etc.

Now I do slip up. my shop has half price cadbury wholenut bars so I bought one of them last night. I eat the odd sausage roll as the guys in the office are always getting them in. However in the grand scheme of things it is a hell of a lot better than what it was a few months ago.

Dinner tonite is spinach & mint curry...............delish

if you have any tips then send them on

frAg

Mellor

Nwm2 wrote: »

I said he WAS doing HIIT and I never said there was anything wrong with a 1:2 work ratio, per se.

You said there he wasn't working hard enough, as he had too long a recovery (this implies a 1:2 ratio isn't as good btw). You have no way of knowing how hard he was working as he didn't put up anything to do with effort.
A person can do 20:10 and not work hard.

By doing a 1:2 (as opposed a 2:1) your work periods can be a higher intensity (and maintain it better) as you have longer to recover.

You think it matters that the Tabata study used an ergometer rather than running - so that the lessons can't be applied to running? While I would agree that "boxing/kettlebells/skipping/etc aren't doing tabata", it's not because they aren't using an ergometer.

Does it matter in terms of outcome, benefits etc?
No it doesn't and I didn't say it does. My point was that the Tabata was a specific study.

The fact that heart rate was monitored and their were strict controls would have an impact of the lesson learned. But nobody includes that in the bastard versions.

My advice to him was to reduce the recovery period - sound advice for what he is specifically doing. Research shows that a relatively long recovery period, coupled with a very short work interval, gives lesser benefit. This is because there is a certain ramp-up period required to hit >>100% VO2max and the acumulated time at that level will be small if you getting towards full recovery after only 20 seconds of work.

He wanted advice on how he can work out for longer. As he felt that the 12 minute workout wasn't as good as the 40min jog.
Your suggestion would of resulted in him burning out quicker (i'm not saying there wasn't a benefit to that training).

My advice to him would be to not focus on doing all long runds, or all session HIIT. Work out a program, resistance training, HIIT for conditioning, and long runs if you want.