Vino

mloc123

Worth a thread of its own? I dunno.

Will he ever race again? Femur will take anything up to 6 months just to repair, did he break his pelvis also? You would have to think that is him finished.

el tel

Breaking the pelvis and femur are awful injuries. If he's lucky he could come back from it but if his mindset was on quitting this year then that's it unless he sees some unfinished business. Though sitting in a room connected up to an IV blood bag must bring back fond memories of his past tours. :rolleyes:

ednwireland

!

BTH

I do like a glass of red now and then....

Chartsengrafs

Like a lot of people I'm not his biggest fan, but why is he held is such low regard by cycling fans (moreso than other convicted dopers?) From what I've heard he was particularly unapologetic at the time he was caught but could anyone fill me in as to how this is / what exactly (if any) his defence was? I didn't follow cycling at the time and Googling hasn't really shed much light. I'm just curious as to why say, Basso doesn't seem to attract the same level of disdain.

ROK ON

I have come out of the closet t admit that I am a Vino fan.

I love his style of racing. Hard balls out effort. Man is fantatsic to watch.
Why should he apologise for doping. He doped (in a sport where doping is systematically part of the culture), he then served a ban. If anyone remembers the game of Sensible Soccer from years ago - well he is like the players where you turn up the aggression levels (violently shaking all over the place).

Move on, nothing to see here. Like an apology makes it ok. F*ck that sh1t.

As I tell my kids - dont apologise, just dont do it again.

Given his age he will probably retire, but he is a loss.
Best of luck to him. I hope to see a team of Vinos in the future - no doubt he will get a role as a DS.

He is a big Gilbert fan and has been trying too get him to move to Astana next year.

happytramp

Actually, I've noticed he's quite a popular figure on many cycling websites. Maybe it's just around here people don't like him.

mahoo

ednwireland wrote: »

!

ah, the wonders of morphine.

im a fan too.. drugs or no drugs, he's still a great aggressive rider to watch. beats watching andy schleck sitting on contadors wheel for 3 weeks

eoghan84

When he won Liege, he was unapologetic about his past. He alluded to doping as the "dark years". He never did what Millar did and list out when he doped and what victories are tainted and should be given back. I think if the sport is to reform what Millar did should be the standard. However I do find myself a Vino fan for the way he races (and di Luca too). The main thing is that he recovers fully and can walk again. Luckily the crash was not any more serious.

I paid two years on suspension for the dark years of my career. If I repeated that I didn't want to talk about it, it's only for the sake of my sport. I don't think cycling needs to reconsider all these dirty stories to move forward.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-fights-back-against-the-press

petethedrummer

eoghan84 wrote: »

When he won Liege, he was unapologetic about his past. He alluded to doping as the "dark years". He never did what Millar did and list out when he doped and what victories are tainted and should be given back. I think if the sport is to reform what Millar did should be the standard.

I used to think that way but I don't think the riders who were caught should bear this burden alone. There are hundreds who weren't caught. A few were just unlucky.

Anyway he was considering postponing his retirement: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8982/Alexander-Vinokourov-to-postpone-retirement.aspx

NickDrake

petethedrummer wrote: »

I used to think that way but I don't think the riders who were caught should bear this burden alone. There are hundreds who weren't caught. A few were just unlucky.

Anyway he was considering postponing his retirement: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8982/Alexander-Vinokourov-to-postpone-retirement.aspx

What has luck got to do with been caught with someone else's blood in you?? Cycling needs to move on from the likes of vino. Life time bans should exist for such major doping issues such as his was.

The sport needs a new breed and it needs to leave the tainted riders behind.

No one wishes injuries in anyone and my post is about his doping past and his reasons no to reveal how he got the blood and his days with t mobile, lib seguros etc.

He showed no remorse at all.

petethedrummer

NickDrake wrote: »

What has luck got to do with been caught with someone else's blood in you??

Loads of riders were doing it and weren't caught.
Is it wrong? Yes.
Was he the only offender? No.

Chips Lovell

I can see him postponing retirement for another year. If only to break out his comeback kit again:

petethedrummer

Zooommmm

not bakunin

He had said that was his last tour anyway, hadn't he?
Seems all the more of a shame that he never caught up with Costa on Saturday now.
He definitely would have made the rest of the tour somewhat more interesting anyway.

Hermy

From the riders point of view it may be considered unlucky but from a spectators point of view it's surely something different.

NickDrake

petethedrummer wrote: »

Loads of riders were doing it and weren't caught.
Is it wrong? Yes.
Was he the only offender? No.

Oh I agree but he doped and just because others did it doesn't mean it is right.

That argument is flawed. in that case people should commit crime after crime because others get away with it.

petethedrummer

NickDrake wrote: »

Oh I agree but he doped and just because others did it doesn't mean it is right.

That argument is flawed. in that case people should commit crime after crime because others get away with it.

You are misunderstanding or misrepresenting my earlier comment. I said the responsibility of admitting and detailing drug taking should not only fall on those who were caught. It should fall on all those who were taking, which is way more than the number who were caught. Don't make me explain it again.

Hermy

petethedrummer wrote: »

A few were just unlucky.

I think the unlucky ones are those who ride clean and never get the recognition they deserve.

petethedrummer

Hermy wrote: »

I think the unlucky ones are those who ride clean and never get the recognition they deserve.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73242941&postcount=18

Hermy

Pete, you describe those who get caught cheating as unlucky.
What am I misunderstanding or misrepresenting when I disagree with this?

petethedrummer

Hermy wrote: »

Pete, you describe those who get caught cheating as unlucky.
What am I misunderstanding or misrepresenting when I disagree with this?

Ok for absolute clarity. 25-75% of the peloton were doping at the time. Maybe 1% were caught. In the subset of riders who were dopers I would consider those who were caught to be unlucky.

Why should they have to give detailed accounts of what they did when the other 22-74% get away with their reputations intact. It reinforces the notion that it is a few bad eggs that did all the doping and the UCI are catching the dirty ones.

They should serve their time and come back and ride clean, not take the fall for everyone else or give fake apologies.

I like Vino's aggressive style, his withdrawn personality and his big muscly legs but I don't like his doping. You can admire and dislike a person for different reasons at the same time.

Hermy

petethedrummer wrote: »

Why should they have to give detailed accounts of what they did...

I never said they should. I just don't agree with your description of those who get caught as unlucky.

I like Vino's aggressive style, his withdrawn personality and his big muscly legs but I don't like his doping. You can admire and dislike a person for different reasons at the same time.

Like and dislike Vino myself for the same reasons actually.

petethedrummer

Hermy wrote: »

I never said they should. I just don't agree with your description of those who get caught as unlucky.

Well of course, they somewhat made their own luck by doping. But compared to other dopers they are unlucky. Now it could be said they just did more doping and therefore got caught but I don't buy that. Not from reading all the stories eminating from USPS, Puerto, Thomas Frei. Loads of riders doped to the gills got away scott free.


Anyways, if Contador got 2010 TDF taken from him (which I believe should happen), Andy Schleck would inherit it. Then in a few years time if Contador wants to come back he'd be expected to apologise profusely, act all sorry and detail everything he did*, while Andy Schleck gets retrospectively hailed as the champ. That doesn't sit well with me. I don't think that scenario even sits well with Andy Schleck given his comments about the whole thing.

*I know you don't expect this hermy, but others do.

Murph100

Its all very well and righteous to lash Vino ... he's not Irish, but what if he was ?


Do the Kazakhs not hold him with the same regard as we revere our great heroes ?

Murph100

Ironically, depending on which side of the fence you sit on of course, some serious commentators have speculated about the 2009 TDF, that with proper retrospective testing, Contador AND Schelck would quite possibly be stripped of their titles, declaring Lance the winner ! :eek:

petethedrummer wrote: »

Well of course, they somewhat made their own luck by doping. But compared to other dopers they are unlucky. Now it could be said they just did more doping and therefore got caught but I don't buy that. Not from reading all the stories eminating from USPS, Puerto, Thomas Frei. Loads of riders doped to the gills got away scott free.


Anyways, if Contador got 2010 TDF taken from him (which I believe should happen), Andy Schleck would inherit it. Then in a few years time if Contador wants to come back he'd be expected to apologise profusely, act all sorry and detail everything he did*, while Andy Schleck gets retrospectively hailed as the champ. That doesn't sit well with me. I don't think that scenario even sits well with Andy Schleck given his comments about the whole thing.

*I know you don't expect this hermy, but others do.

petethedrummer

:eek:

Nobody who believes....

Murph100 wrote: »

Contador AND Schelck would quite possibly be stripped of their titles,

would believe....

Murph100 wrote: »

declaring Lance the winner ! :eek:

Murph100

Some who are in the loop would disagree ... I'm only throwing it out there ... and I did say IRONICALLY.

petethedrummer wrote: »

:eek:

Nobody who believes....


would believe....

petethedrummer

Brilliant Read: http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/07/quiet-goombah.html

petethedrummer

Murph100 wrote: »

Some who are in the loop would disagree ... I'm only throwing it out there ... and I did say IRONICALLY.

The ones wearing a yellow loop round their wrists.

Anyways. back to Vino.

hinault

He is one tough hombre is Vino.

I always liked his style. Yes it was hairbrained at times. I can remember him attacking Ullrich, his own team mate, in 2005 TDF!:D
But he rode with his heart.

The drugs issue didn't come as a surprise although I was disappointed that he did cheat.