Near accident (on purpose?)

goodstuff!

I was heading south just after J1 on the M50 today and i was in the overtaking lane. There was a fiat seicento that was about 100 yards behind me at the same speed for a good distance. There was nobody on the next lane in for abot 200 yards, and because there was nobody trying to get past me, i stayed out to pass that car ahead.
I watched in the mirror as the fiat dramatically accelerated (i couldn't belive it either!) and pulled into the next lane at about 70 yards behind, came up at the inside, pulled straight in front of me and slammed on the brakes.
Now, only for i was watching all this unfold, i would've been into the back of him. Luckily i now had a clear lane and swerved up the inside of him. I looked across and he wasn't angry or making hand gestures, he was just looking straight ahead doing way below the 100kph speed limit.Without being racist, the pair in the car were not Irish.
I continued on my journey still wondering what this fella was at, when i remembered seeing a programme on sky where they showed people in the UK intentionally stopping up in front of other motorists causing an accident and then claiming for all sorts.
Has this crap started in Ireland now?

joolsveer

goodstuff! wrote: »

........Without being racist, the pair in the car were not Irish.
........

How can you tell they weren't Irish?

goodstuff!

joolsveer wrote: »

How can you tell they weren't Irish?

I'm not going to start into this, but they were not of Irish origin, if that pleases you more!

-Corkie-

Why didnt you move into the inside lane to let them pass??:)

goodstuff!

-Corkie- wrote: »

Why didnt you move into the inside lane to let them pass??:)

He pulled into the lane about 70 yards behind me and while accelerating. If he had to accelerate on the overtaking lane I would have pulled in. He seemed quite happy to stay at about 100 yards behind me for a good distance up to then.

Reloc8

Dunno about your incident - does seem though that a chap in the seicento might actually end up maimed or worse in a collision such as you describe at motorway speeds whereas the scammer/put on job's objective is to collect a wedge of cash for no/light injuries.

Im Only 71Kg

had a scenario not too long ago with an foreign woman (african origin/yellow fiat)..i was driving through newlands cross from clondalkin to tallaght (belgard rd)..had passed through the busy junction picking up speed 60-70Kmh with a big tail of cars behind accelerating same as me..when yer one in front of me decided to slam on the brakes to a dead halt in the middle of the right hand lane..for no reason whatsoever. i was dead lucky not to hit her piece of **** car..skidded for 8-10ft to stop..only later that evening i began thinking about the 20 cars behind me all doing roughly the same speed..it could have been a major accident..i went ballistic with the horn screaming my head off. it was definitely an attempted crash/claim scenario..

unkel

Reloc8 wrote: »

Dunno about your incident - does seem though that a chap in the seicento might actually end up maimed or worse in a collision such as you describe at motorway speeds whereas the scammer/put on job's objective is to collect a wedge of cash for no/light injuries.

+1 does not compute. I don't think a scammer would go that route

-Corkie-

I said it before and I will say it again, if every car had a dash cam there wouldnt be half of this sh1t going on.

toby08

something similar happened with my wife she was alone but was lucky that her friend was in another car heading to work as well with 2 passengers to act as witnesses.What occured was this as she approached traffic lights they changed to amber and the car in front stopped immediately. My wife also stopped 10 seconds later the car in front reversed into my wife.
the persons were not irish and started shouting at my wife her friends approached and one was a male he asked everyone for details and was contacting the gardai the 2 occupants got into their car and drove away the details were passed on to the gardai, they found the car and are still investigating.
I thought this sort of thing was an urban myth until this happened.

-Corkie-

toby08 wrote: »

I thought this sort of thing was an urban myth until this happened.

Its not I am afraid. I have seen a good few threads about it lately.

thom119

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

had a scenario not too long ago with an foreign woman (african origin/yellow fiat)..i was driving through newlands cross from clondalkin to tallaght (belgard rd)..had passed through the busy junction picking up speed 60-70Kmh with a big tail of cars behind accelerating same as me..when yer one in front of me decided to slam on the brakes to a dead halt in the middle of the right hand lane..for no reason whatsoever. i was dead lucky not to hit her piece of **** car..skidded for 8-10ft to stop..only later that evening i began thinking about the 20 cars behind me all doing roughly the same speed..it could have been a major accident..i went ballistic with the horn screaming my head off. it was definitely an attempted crash/claim scenario..

pretty sure i've seen this fiat around clondalkin village a few times making a few very silly driving mistakes

Blazer

you have to be incredibly stupid to risk a payout and let a car ram into a pile of crap like that...in fact you'd probably pass him/her out in the driver seat,

see this pic on the euro ncap site to know why I'd never set foot in one,



http://www.euroncap.com/tests/fiat_seicento_2000/73.aspx

Senna

Sc@recrow wrote: »

you have to be incredibly stupid

Assuming they are "at this" then they are "incredibly stupid" so they really might have picked the worst possible car for this scam.

Anan1

goodstuff! wrote: »

I was heading south just after J1 on the M50 today and i was in the overtaking lane. There was a fiat seicento that was about 100 yards behind me at the same speed for a good distance. There was nobody on the next lane in for abot 200 yards, and because there was nobody trying to get past me, i stayed out to pass that car ahead.
I watched in the mirror as the fiat dramatically accelerated (i couldn't belive it either!) and pulled into the next lane at about 70 yards behind, came up at the inside, pulled straight in front of me and slammed on the brakes.
Now, only for i was watching all this unfold, i would've been into the back of him. Luckily i now had a clear lane and swerved up the inside of him. I looked across and he wasn't angry or making hand gestures, he was just looking straight ahead doing way below the 100kph speed limit.Without being racist, the pair in the car were not Irish.
I continued on my journey still wondering what this fella was at, when i remembered seeing a programme on sky where they showed people in the UK intentionally stopping up in front of other motorists causing an accident and then claiming for all sorts.
Has this crap started in Ireland now?

In a nutshell, you need to learn how to use a motorway. The Fiat shouldn't have overtaken you on the left, but, had you not been senselessly blocking the overtaking lane, they wouldn't have had to. As for their braking in front of you - again, they were wrong, but, again, you shouldn't have provoked them.

maglite

^^

Gallops in the knight on the high horse with a pointless point.

murphm45

Anan1 wrote: »

In a nutshell, you need to learn how to use a motorway. The Fiat shouldn't have overtaken you on the left, but, had you not been senselessly blocking the overtaking lane, they wouldn't have had to. As for their braking in front of you - again, they were wrong, but, again, you shouldn't have provoked them.

Hang on, am i reading the OPs story wrong, they state they were in the right hand lane to overtake a car that was about 200 yards in front of them, they were travelling at the upper end of the speed limit (and i assume they were catching up on the car in front) so they were using the overtaking lane for the purpose it was designed. The person in the fiat broke the speed limit to undertake them (there's two offences in that) and then broke(braked?) in front of them, and by the sounds of the way the OP describes it to cause an accident.

Can i ask what i've missed and what the provataion was?

johnos1984

I'm possibly wrong but I recall that you shouldn't pull out until you are about 100 yards behind the car in front if you intend overtaking on a multilane carraige way.

I can't think of the source of that info though

Anan1

murphm45 wrote: »

Hang on, am i reading the OPs story wrong, they state they were in the right hand lane to overtake a car that was about 200 yards in front of them, they were travelling at the upper end of the speed limit (and i assume they were catching up on the car in front) so they were using the overtaking lane for the purpose it was designed. The person in the fiat broke the speed limit to undertake them (there's two offences in that) and then broke(braked?) in front of them, and by the sounds of the way the OP describes it to cause an accident.

Can i ask what i've missed and what the provataion was?

If a FIAT Seicento had time to pull into the left lane, pass them, and pull back into the overtaking lane then the OP had enough room to pull into the left lane, let them past, and pull back out for their next overtake. I'm not for a moment defending braking in front of anyone, but the OP needs to realize how utterly frustrating hogging the overtaking lane is for cars behind.

slimjimmc

maglite wrote: »

^^

Gallops in the knight on the high horse with a pointless point.

God, not this high-horse accusation crap again!

It's not pointless! The OP can only speculate the other driver drove the way he did was for a compo claim, but he doesn't know. For all he knows the other driver could have got frustrated at the OP not moving back to the left when he had the opportunity and decided to teach him a lesson. His not shaking his fist or looking at the op means nothing, people behave differently despite how suspicious it looks.

charlemont

There was a Pakistani guy at the same stuff in Cork, He caught out a friend of mine by braking on the Dunkettle roundabout, But with a wee bit of searching it turned out he done the same at two other roundabouts in Cork and claimed whip lash etc.

sentient_6

slimjimmc wrote: »

God, not this high-horse accusation crap again!

It's not pointless!

He made his comment about the point Anan1 made about driving in the overtaking lane, which for the purposes of this thread is irrelevant to what happened to the OP. Or Anan1 are you implying him driving in the overtaking had something to do with the other drivers actions? I don't see it myself.

murphm45

Anan1 wrote: »

If a FIAT Seicento had time to pull into the left lane, pass them, and pull back into the overtaking lane then the OP had enough room to pull into the left lane, let them past, and pull back out for their next overtake. I'm not for a moment defending braking in front of anyone, but the OP needs to realize how utterly frustrating hogging the overtaking lane is for cars behind.

I hadn't though of it that way, there's always the possibility that the OP slowed down when he saw the other party speeding up in the lane to their left (but that is just me guessing). Anyway if they were travelling in the overtaking lane at the speed limit they weren't holding anyone up, you're not allowed go any faster.

Anyway back to the matter at hand, fair play OP for managing to avoid it and thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately there's probably sweet FA anyone can do to prevent it!

Anan1

sentient_6 wrote: »

He made his comment about the point Anan1 made about driving in the overtaking lane, which for the purposes of this thread is irrelevant to what happened to the OP. Or Anan1 are you implying him driving in the overtaking had something to do with the other drivers actions? I don't see it myself.

I'm saying that the OP's blocking the overtaking lane may have had everything to do with the other drivers actions. As I see it, there are two potential reasons for the FIAT drivers' behaviour - either a compo claim or anger at the OP's driving. Given that a compo claim seems (for reasons already outlined by others) unlikely, and given that the OP was demonstrably blocking the overtaking lane for no good reason, the latter seems more likely to me.

MonaghanPenguin

sentient_6 wrote: »

He made his comment about the point Anan1 made about driving in the overtaking lane, which for the purposes of this thread is irrelevant to what happened to the OP. Or Anan1 are you implying him driving in the overtaking had something to do with the other drivers actions? I don't see it myself.

Sure it has, pulling in front of someone in the overtaking and hitting the breaks is a way some people use to show frustration that they wouldn't get out of the way. It's a stupid one, but frustrated people do it.

I have to say it was the first thing that came into my head reading the story. Anan summed it up perfectly for me, the timing is ALL wrong for what the OP claims happened and the distances he says were involved. Plus the fact that scammer or not, no one would be stupid enough to want to be rear ended at motorway speeds.

slimjimmc

sentient_6 wrote: »

He made his comment about the point Anan1 made about driving in the overtaking lane, which for the purposes of this thread is irrelevant to what happened to the OP. Or Anan1 are you implying him driving in the overtaking had something to do with the other drivers actions? I don't see it myself.

I think Post #19 offers another possible reason for the other drivers behaviour. The OP staying in the overtaking lane may have been the straw that broke the camel's back for the other driver.
That's not excusing the other driver but it is another possible reason and equally valid to the speculation that it was a compo attempt.

Anan1

murphm45 wrote: »

Anyway if they were travelling in the overtaking lane at the speed limit they weren't holding anyone up, you're not allowed go any faster.

That's not how it works. Even at 200km/h, the rule remains the same - drive left, overtake right.

MugMugs

And so this thread descends from a potential Insurance Fraud scam / Set up incident to how to drive on the M50....

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

And so this thread descends from a potential Insurance Fraud scam / Set up incident to how to drive on the M50....

The OP outlined what happened and asked for opinions. What part of that are you having trouble with?

-Corkie-

MugMugs wrote: »

And so this thread descends from a potential Insurance Fraud scam / Set up incident to how to drive on the M50....

They always do for some reason..

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

The OP outlined what happened and asked for opinions. What part of that are you having trouble with?

I have no issue understanding the context of the queries made.

The OP's concern was that of a potential fraudulent claim. Not proper driving etiquette on the M50

murphm45

Anan1 wrote: »

That's not how it works. Even at 200km/h, the rule remains the same - drive left, overtake right.

But they were (in the process of) overtaking.

Sorry, i don't really know why i'm getting so defensive on this. Maybe it something to do with people flashing and beeping their horns when i'm overtaking other cars. I was overtaking a truck (literally side by side passing it) at the limit and some ignorant so & so started flashing me and blaring the horn. I'm sorry but this is the height of ignorance and it never ceases to amaze me how people defend it. This is not a slight on anyone here just a bit of an axe i have to grind. sorry again, and apologies for derailing the thread

Anan1

murphm45 wrote: »

But they were (in the process of) overtaking.

Sorry, i don't really know why i'm getting so defensive on this. Maybe it something to do with people flashing and beeping their horns when i'm overtaking other cars. I was overtaking a truck (literally side by side passing it) at the limit and some ignorant so & so started flashing me and blaring the horn. I'm sorry but this is the height of ignorance and it never ceases to amaze me how people defend it. This is not a slight on anyone here just a bit of an axe i have to grind. sorry again, and apologies for derailing the thread

If they'd been in the process of overtaking then i'd be in complete agreement with you. But they weren't. By their own admission, a FIAT Seicento had room to move into the left lane, undertake them, and pull back out in front of them. That's not overtaking, that's blocking the overtaking lane.

MugMugs wrote: »

I have no issue understanding the context of the queries made.

The OP's concern was that of a potential fraudulent claim. Not proper driving etiquette on the M50

Honestly, if you can't see the potential link between the OPs driving and what the Seicento driver did then I really can't help you any further. It's already been explained more than once.

MugMugs

goodstuff! wrote: »

I was heading south just after J1 on the M50 today and i was in the overtaking lane...................
I continued on my journey still wondering what this fella was at, when i remembered seeing a programme on sky where they showed people in the UK intentionally stopping up in front of other motorists causing an accident and then claiming for all sorts.
Has this crap started in Ireland now?

Anan1 wrote: »

Honestly, if you can't see the potential link between the OPs driving and what the Seicento driver did then I really can't help you any further. It's already been explained more than once.

Not wishing to be pedantic.... His query is above yet you completely deviated from it onto overtaking lanes...

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

Not wishing to be pedantic.... His query is above yet you completely deviated from it onto overtaking lanes...

Here's a hint:

wrote:

I continued on my journey still wondering what this fella was at

unkel

murphm45 wrote: »

But they were (in the process of) overtaking.

Common misconception. If there is a car behind you that might overtake you before you overtake the car in front, then you should not be in the overtaking lane

MugMugs wrote: »

Not wishing to be pedantic.... His query is above yet you completely deviated from it onto overtaking lanes...

I feel it is very much on topic. We're trying to establish why the driver undertook and hit the brakes. Frustration that he OP didn't let him overtake is the most likely reason I've seen mentioned here yet.

Collibosher

Just past Junction 1 is there not signs warning of a speed camera ?

Is it possible the van driver jammed on the anchors as he saw the signs ?

Anan1

Collibosher wrote: »

Just past Junction 1 is there not signs warning of a speed camera ?

Is it possible the van driver jammed on the anchors as he saw the signs ?

That's another possibility.

Antikythera

murphm45 wrote: »

Anyway if they were travelling in the overtaking lane at the speed limit they weren't holding anyone up, you're not allowed go any faster.

This is the 'Sentinel of the road' mentality, whose busybody proponents feel the need to enforce the speed limits wherever they go. Always with a look of faux indignation on their miserable faces when you eventually pass them - usually at the speed limit!

Absurdum

I'm hugely confused here

J1 on M50, clearly showing speed limit, there's a toll booth around the corner too

goodstuff! wrote: »

I watched in the mirror as the fiat dramatically accelerated (i couldn't belive it either!)

considering most people can run faster than a Seicento, I find that a little far-fetched

JerCotter7

unkel wrote: »

Common misconception. If there is a car behind you that might overtake you before you overtake the car in front, then you should not be in the overtaking lane

Next time I am the first person in a queue of cars stuck behind a car going 60km I shall remember that wise advice.

unkel

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Next time I am the first person in a queue of cars stuck behind a car going 60km I shall remember that wise advice.

Not sure what you're trying to say. You (and others behind you) are following a car for 60 kilometres? On a motorway? In what lane are you or any of the other cars?

unkel

blindjustice wrote: »

he was overtaking

No he wasn't:

goodstuff! wrote: »

There was nobody on the next lane in for abot 200 yards

Oral Surgeon

I don't get it, a Fiat Seicento overtook you...! How, do you drive a Ford model T?? That car wouldn't pull you out of bed.

robbie_998

i make it a habit of staying about 3 miles behind the car in front... regardless of who you are.

plenty of braking distance for me thank you !

too many of these muppets are starting to pop up and i do not wanna get stung for something **** like that when i've only just started driving properly !

Reloc8

A little more sophisticated, in slowish moving traffic, foot off the accelerator and yank up the handbrake - car behind sees no brake lights and bangs into the back of you. Now go and make your claim.

This move is cuter, because all any witness will see, except from the rear cars's driver/passenger seat, is it running into the back of the car in front, as opposed to the amateur hour reverse into you at lights/stop sign.

Couple of features in cars pulling this stunt :- 1) they are sheds 2) they will have more than one person in them, in fact they may be quite likely to be a little cramped for room inside.

I've come across a number of these set-ups professionally recently and have no doubt its going on. Give yourself plenty of distance from the car in front people.

goodstuff!

Ok. I've just read everything so far and i hope the following answers all questions.
I've driven on many different motorways in many different countries over the years, and i know the overtaking lane is supposed to be for "overtaking". But, i do also have common sense and good road awareness and could see no need to pull into the next lane as i would only have to pull back out very soon afterwards. Also, with another lane inside that again, other road users might want the middle lane to overtake.
The seicento travelled for over a mile at the same 100 yard (roughly) distance behind me, both of us travelling at about 100kph. The driver of the fiat only started to close the distance between us on the inside lane. If he had to do this in the overtaking lane, which he had a good distance to do it in, i would have pulled in no problem. But to stop up for no reason straight in front of me just confused me.
I'm 15 years driving, 14 on a full licence, never had an accident, never had claim, and have no points in any country and i've never seen a manouvre like this one!
Back to the point, it seems this culture has hit our shores and i'll warn you all to be vigilant, especially around seicentos!!:rolleyes:

MugMugs

Unfortunately it is becoming quite common OP. Be vigilant and consider a dash cam as Corkie suggested. I speak in reference to attempting to stage an accident, not how to drive on the M50

Gophur

goodstuff! wrote: »

I was heading south just after J1 on the M50 today and i was in the overtaking lane. There was a fiat seicento that was about 100 yards behind me at the same speed for a good distance. There was nobody on the next lane in for abot 200 yards, and because there was nobody trying to get past me, i stayed out to pass that car ahead.
I watched in the mirror as the fiat dramatically accelerated (i couldn't belive it either!) and pulled into the next lane at about 70 yards behind, came up at the inside, pulled straight in front of me and slammed on the brakes.
Now, only for i was watching all this unfold, i would've been into the back of him. Luckily i now had a clear lane and swerved up the inside of him. I looked across and he wasn't angry or making hand gestures, he was just looking straight ahead doing way below the 100kph speed limit.Without being racist, the pair in the car were not Irish.
I continued on my journey still wondering what this fella was at, when i remembered seeing a programme on sky where they showed people in the UK intentionally stopping up in front of other motorists causing an accident and then claiming for all sorts.
Has this crap started in Ireland now?

Have you reported this to the Gardai, OP?

If not, then what's the point of spouting off on a forum?
Do something about it, something meaningful!

Anan1

goodstuff! wrote: »

I've driven on many different motorways in many different countries over the years, and i know the overtaking lane is supposed to be for "overtaking". But, i do also have common sense and good road awareness and could see no need to pull into the next lane as i would only have to pull back out very soon afterwards. Also, with another lane inside that again, other road users might want the middle lane to overtake.
The seicento travelled for over a mile at the same 100 yard (roughly) distance behind me, both of us travelling at about 100kph. The driver of the fiat only started to close the distance between us on the inside lane. If he had to do this in the overtaking lane, which he had a good distance to do it in, i would have pulled in no problem.

The rule isn't 'keep left if there's a car behind that you think wants to overtake', it's 'keep left'. You were unnecessarily blocking the overtaking lane. Surely you can see that this is a.) illegal, and b.) frustrating for cars behind? It appears to me that you are grasping at straws with your 'compo culture' claims, when a far more likely explanation is staring you in the face. Either way, as I said in my first point, you need to learn how to use a motorway.

MonaghanPenguin

goodstuff! wrote: »

Ok. I've just read everything so far and i hope the following answers all questions.
I've driven on many different motorways in many different countries over the years, and i know the overtaking lane is supposed to be for "overtaking". But, i do also have common sense and good road awareness and could see no need to pull into the next lane as i would only have to pull back out very soon afterwards. Also, with another lane inside that again, other road users might want the middle lane to overtake.
The seicento travelled for over a mile at the same 100 yard (roughly) distance behind me, both of us travelling at about 100kph. The driver of the fiat only started to close the distance between us on the inside lane. If he had to do this in the overtaking lane, which he had a good distance to do it in, i would have pulled in no problem. But to stop up for no reason straight in front of me just confused me.
I'm 15 years driving, 14 on a full licence, never had an accident, never had claim, and have no points in any country and i've never seen a manouvre like this one!
Back to the point, it seems this culture has hit our shores and i'll warn you all to be vigilant, especially around seicentos!!:rolleyes:

MugMugs wrote:

Unfortunately it is becoming quite common OP. Be vigilant and consider a dash cam as Corkie suggested. I speak in reference to attempting to stage an accident, not how to drive on the M50

I don't think either of you get the point behind a scam of this kind. The idea is to get hit, have no real injury, little damage to your vehicle, and claim all the money you can off the person. Hence it's usually down in built up areas or approaching junctions were people would have slowed right down. Then you claim for injuries like back pain, whiplash etc.

You don't stage an accident at 100kph where you're going to get real injuries and probably write off your vehicle.