Junior Cert to be limited to 8 subjects

rainbowtrout

This was in the news a while back but it's in the Indo again today that students will be limited to taking 8 subjects for Junior Cert. Just wondering what the good people of T&L think of this.

Personally I don't see it as a bad thing, I do wonder how it will pan out though? Will CSPE still be compulsory? I did the JC in 94 which was the third year it was examined and I did 9 subjects. My school was streamed so the top class did 9 subjects and the rest did 8. I don't feel I missed out because I didn't do 11 or 12 subjects for Junior Cert.

However I'm just looking at what is offered in my school currently and wondering how subjects will be offered in the future.

In terms of exam subjects:

Compulsory : English, Irish, Maths, CSPE, Science, History, Geography, French or German

Choice subjects in first year: Music, Art, Business Studies, Home Economics, Woodwork, Metalwork, Tech Drawing

Gut feeling tells me that Science would be kept on as a compulsory subject (both principal and deputy principal are science teachers), and maybe the foreign languages, but I suspect history and geography will be shifted into the choice category.



http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/number-of-junior-cert-subjects-cut-to-eight-2816643.html

The number of subjects that can be taken in the Junior Cert will be cut to eight under new plans aimed at improving literacy and numeracy.

At the moment, students can take over ten subjects and the move is designed to give students more time to focus on fewer subjects.

Education Minister Ruairi Quinn is also writing to schools countrywide asking them to spend at least 90 minutes of every day on improving reading skills, and at least 50 minutes on mathematics.

However, he added that the new strategy, which will cost up to €19m annually, will mean cuts to other aspects of the education budget.

Boober Fraggle

I'll reserve judgement for now til we get more details.

I suppose it already happens that schools have compulsory subjects based on the opinions of the management, but I'd hate to see, say business lose out to science, or modern languages to fall as a result of this.

I can't see the point in removing the one period of CSPE per week from the timetable, it wouldn't exactly take a lot of pressure of our darling students!

Teachers of minority subjects are going to lose jobs because of this.

dambarude

RE was my 11th exam subject, I'd say that will be dropped as an exam subject in a lot of schools. It was taught much like a non-exam subject to us anyway. Could CSPE be made a non-exam subject like SPHE? TBH it's not taken very seriously as it currently stands.

According to this (literacy and numeracy plan) the limit on 8 subjects will come in fairly soon:

Pending the full reform of the junior cycle, introduce as an
interim measure, a limit on the number of subjects that a
student may sit in the Junior Certificate examination to a
maximum of eight subjects (to include Irish, English and
mathematics) to take effect for the cohort of students
entering schools in September 2013

It says that at least one period a day needs to be given to maths and english, but is this not happening in most schools already? How exactly will the rest of the class periods be filled when this limit is introduced, and what impact will it have on teachers?

Personally I don't think that reducing subject numbers too much is a brilliant idea. 8 is a reasonable number though. I had great difficulty choosing which subjects to do in Junior Cycle, and that was with 11 subjects. One of the problems with the A levels system in the UK is that it's too specialised. A student can do Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry, which is a very limited curriculum.

rainbowtrout

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

I'll reserve judgement for now til we get more details.

I suppose it already happens that schools have compulsory subjects based on the opinions of the management, but I'd hate to see, say business lose out to science, or modern languages to fall as a result of this.

I can't see the point in removing the one period of CSPE per week from the timetable, it wouldn't exactly take a lot of pressure of our darling students!

Teachers of minority subjects are going to lose jobs because of this.

I'd agree on what you're saying about CSPE, but if it has to be counted as one of the 8, it leaves even less room for choice, and I'd imagine a lot of people wouldn't be happy as it's not seen as a serious subject.

I had thought about the shift in demand for core subject teachers from choice subject teachers. It may take schools a while to adjust or they will simply put teachers in subjects they are not qualified in. We have fulltime music, art, home ec, metalwork, woodwork all permanent, so they would all have to be accommodated somewhere. Some schools may have to offer subjects based on the staff they have.

History (in particular) and Geography have had their time cut in the past in my school where something else needed to be fitted in so I can see them not being compulsory anymore.

rainbowtrout

dambarude wrote: »

RE was my 11th exam subject, I'd say that will be dropped as an exam subject in a lot of schools. It was taught much like a non-exam subject to us anyway. Could CSPE be made a non-exam subject like SPHE? TBH it's not taken very seriously as it currently stands.

According to this (literacy and numeracy plan) the limit on 8 subjects will come in fairly soon:

It says that at least one period a day needs to be given to maths and english, but is this not happening in most schools already? How exactly will the rest of the class periods be filled when this limit is introduced, and what impact will it have on teachers?

Personally I don't think that reducing subject numbers too much is a brilliant idea. 8 is a reasonable number though. I had great difficulty choosing which subjects to do in Junior Cycle, and that was with 11 subjects. One of the problems with the A levels system in the UK is that it's too specialised. A student can do Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry, which is a very limited curriculum.

Maybe instead of having five English classes a week, students would have 6. There was something in that report where time was to be given over to literacy skills everyday. Because of cutbacks last year, in order to keep all the subjects on the timetable, we moved to 35 minute classes from 40 minute classes and made the school day shorter. We were over the minimum time by a good bit. I could see us going back the other way to 40 min classes again. When I was in school I can remember us having 45 min classes.

dambarude

I had 4 x 35 minute and 5 x 40 minute classes a day and still had time for 11 exam subjects, SPHE, PEx2, and a computer studies class. My school would have a lot of free time left, even if 2 extra classes were given to English and Maths every week.

Boober Fraggle

Insisting on English and maths being done every day is going to cause timetabling issues for larger schools. In our school they would nearly always have a double in the week, leaving one day where the subject is not taught.

I wouldn't see the point in CSPE without the exam attached. The action project component would be gone straight away, as principals wouldn't want time wasted on non exam material.

therunaround

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/19699946/?view=Standard

I think the extra literacy and maths refers to primary schools.

I would see English, Irish, Maths, Science, a Language as compulsory.

Then 3 choices from History, Geography, a second language, Music, Art, Business Studies, Home Economics, Woodwork, Metalwork, Tech Drawing etc.

CSPE, Religion, SPHE and PE examined in second year.

Going more towards a model of differentiating between a vocational education and academic education ie some kids might pick History, Geography and a second language. Others might choose woodwork, metalwork and ...

Probably not a bad idea, but-

I really feel history is so important, people ignorant of our national history and the world war, but learning about the dinosaurs and ancient greeks, is not good, and would require reform of the National school history curriculum.

Geography stuff pushed into science and CSPE? More new syllabi?

Thats just 2 examples. What would the history and geography teachers do- would they be able to teach the other subjects- massive implications for redeployment? Is it possible to stream the 9 or 10 option subjects on a timetable with the same number of permanent teachers? would the option subjects have a wider spread with smaller class sizes or do subjects, and subsequently teachers get cut.

If they just examine 8 subjects, and make the rest non- examinable, with project work in second year?- surely this would counter against the increased literacy instruction they are looking for?

We will have to wait and see.

I can see a major problem with subject allocations for schools next Summer with impending retirements in February, outstanding redeployments, big changes to timetabling depending on new 1st year subject choices, redeploying more teachers because of these changes.

Edit: Just noticed there on the literacy and numeracy plan that its students entering September 2013, and not 2012 on my report (link). That makes more sense.

dambarude

Maybe more schools will offer Environmental and Social Studies, that incorporates History and Geography components. Mightn't be a bad idea at all.

Pegasusbridge

I think it is a very bad idea to be honest. I think the main advantage of the Junior Cert is that students get to experience a wide range of subjects. This allows them to make a more informed choice for the Leaving Cert and also into 3rd level education.
I know the idea of doing 7 subjects for Leaving Cert might change too but it would seem that if you only do 8 JC subjects then you are limiting your potential choices for LC.
Also the report indicates that students won't be allowed sit more then 8 JC examinations but what about the students who want to take extra subjects? Every year many students get good results in 11-12 subjects. They are well able to do this so why should they not be allowed to?
Students learn basic literacy from every subject. Why not reduce the content of each syllabus. That would allow more time in each subject for students to master the material while also allowing students a broad education.
To be honest I also think that giving students a basic understanding of History (I accept I'm biased as I teach History) is a vital part of our education system and I hate the idea of students who are keen to learn not getting the chance to learn the basics as they have to make a restricted choice of what they can study.

dambarude

Pegasusbridge wrote: »

Also the report indicates that students won't be allowed sit more then 8 JC examinations but what about the students who want to take extra subjects? Every year many students get good results in 11-12 subjects. They are well able to do this so why should they not be allowed to?
.

That's a very good point. I know of lots of people who were forced to take extra subjects outside school for various reasons. At least two people I know wanted to do Music but had to do it in their own time, but obviously they would still have had to do the required amount of subjects in school. With this rule would they have been prevented from doing this? It seems like they would. This would become even more of an issue if subjects are dropped for the reasons that have been outlined above.

I did an extra subject for leaving cert due to timetabling issues at school. The subject (Chemistry) was a mandatory one for a college course I was seriously considering (Pharmacy). If a similar cap was placed on LC subjects I would have been prevented from doing it, which could have seriously impacted on career options.

It's one thing have a recommended number of subjects, but having a set cap at 8 is another story altogether.

gaeilgegrinds1

I just hope more academic students take this as an opportunity to broaden their horizons somewhat and read up on things. I really don't see it as a bad idea, I had a student do 12 subjects this year who was rather confused to say the least and will in my opinion be burned out going into fifth year.

neverfinished

Would it not be possible to continue doing subjects but choose to be examined in 8? This is really going to do damage on some teachers hours...

expectationlost

are they really getting rid of history and geography as core subjects?, have they already?, ESS looks ok as a practical element but don't think it replaces history and geography.

all students should do science aswell.

gaeilgebeo

expectationlost wrote: »

are they really getting rid of history and geography as core subjects?, have they already?, ESS looks ok as a practical element but don't think it replaces history and geography.

all students should do science aswell.

History an Geography is not compulsory in a lot of schools.

gaeilgebeo

I don't necessarily see this as a bad move.
I have often looked at 3rd years doing 10/11/12 subjects and being bogged down and in a fluster with projects, exam journals, deadlines etc... particularly weak students who don't fall into the JCSP bracket.

whydoibother?

It's probably a good thing. I did 11 or 12 I think, and while I was happy with my results (or maybe more accurately didn't care enough to be unhappy:o), when I heard of others doing 8 and getting 8A's I did think it was slightly unfair. There needs to be standardization. The junior cert may be largely irrelevant in Ireland, but if a person applies abroad where it matters for uni entry, they're going to assume everyone sat a similar set of exams, not one student sat 50% more than another.

maynooth_rules

dambarude wrote: »

Maybe more schools will offer Environmental and Social Studies, that incorporates History and Geography components. Mightn't be a bad idea at all.

I would count this as a dreadful idea. Id put History and Geography on a par with Science behind the vital subjects of English and Maths (and arguably a language). To push them together is unnecessary and will result in a dumbing down of vital elements of education. On a personal level I believe Religion should be dropped from secondary schools, Irish should be an option while CSPE should be restructured and introduced to Leaving Cert level as Politics. Id also like to see more of an emphasis on IT. I think it is a disgrace that at the moment Religion is a Junior Cert subject while IT is not.

doc_17

There are too many subjects on the JC. In our school at JC we only have 4 maths and english classes per week. CSPE (colossal waste of time) and SPHE could be rolled into one class per week and not examine it.

Maybe (given the governement and their philosophy) Irish could be optional although I hope and don't think this will be the case.

My list of 8 examinable subjects....

Maths
English
Irish
Science
Euro Language
1 Practical
Art/Music/Business
History/Geography

delta_bravo

The ncca report about this is up a month. History and geography were recommended to become non compulsory.

The indo report mentioned 8 subjects being taught to a greater depth and this would save money. But surely this would new curricula for these subjects? I don't understand how this will work. I don't like the sound of these plans at all.

dambarude

maynooth_rules wrote: »

On a personal level I believe Religion should be dropped from secondary schools, Irish should be an option while CSPE should be restructured and introduced to Leaving Cert level as Politics. Id also like to see more of an emphasis on IT. I think it is a disgrace that at the moment Religion is a Junior Cert subject while IT is not.

If the examination religion syllabus is followed I personally don't think it's a waste of time. It's treated as religious education, and studies much broader topics than the type of religion taught in primary school. I agree with your point on IT though, but it doesn't seem likely it'll be made a subject any time soon.

There's a whole new Junior Cert curriculum/syllabus due anyway, so I'm guessing that new subject syllabi will come with this.

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I would count this as a dreadful idea

I don't know an awful lot about the subject, but I think it would be better a student get some exposure to History and Geography through Environmental and Social studies than none at all.

Art Teacher

History and Geography are not actually compulsory.
Many schools make it compulsory for their students but many do not- especially traditional vec schools (anyone remember the group cert? ) . I have taught in two schools where Art is compulsory at junior Cert not history or Geography!


I think the most important thing is not to band subject but to offer open choices to students in their subject choice based on their preferences. While I see merit in schools wanting to ensure that students have a broad and balanced education at the same time schools set up hierarchies and stereotying by banding subjects. As much as possible students should be choosing subjects to suit their own strenghts and those which can realistically help them in their future.

Art Teacher

.QUOTE Id also like to see more of an emphasis on IT. I think it is a disgrace that at the moment Religion is a Junior Cert subject while IT is not.[/QUOTE]
maynooth rules
So, true!
God is never going to turn a person down for failing Religion but if a student has an IT qualification, it can count for them in real occupational opportunities. i think Religion is a great subject but no qualification is needed, in the spirit of the subject, in its practical operation, unless ministry is the occupational goal of the student. You see a lot of schools make religion compulsory.

sitstill

I hadn't heard about this but I agree with it having often seen students struggling with so many subjects.

I think extra time should be devoted to literacy and numeracy but maybe in addition to the curricular English and Maths lessons. I think in the context of the changes, CSPE should be made non-examinable instead of using up one of the 8 subjects for it.

Unlike many posters, I think students should be given the option of taking RE still as an exam subject. The course now is very broad and really helps them in both their critical thinking and in learning about other cultures. The spiritual side of it is merely an extra at this stage as it is not an objective of the curriculum.

Feeded

Religion and CSPE should be taken off the exam timetable. Has anyone seen the Religion exam? It's completely removed from the life of a 14 year old kid. . . .fine, follow the curriculum in class but the exam is unnecessary. . I hope it's fleshed out in the coming weeks or else we'll have kids in all of our first year classes saying '' i'm not taking this for my junior cert so my parents said i didn't have to buy the book or do the homework or pay attention or make your life easy. .''

spurious

Lots of people commenting here on ESS - funny, since I know not that many schools have experience of it.

If these proposals cost any more money than is already being spent, we know what will happen them. The lofty ideals of Irish education always boil down to money.

Art Teacher

spurious wrote: »

If these proposals cost any more money than is already being spent, we know what will happen them. The lofty ideals of Irish education always boil down to money.

The trouble is that i think it is being done as a cost cutting measure and thats why it will be implemented. The minister has said he will reduce subjects to 8 for next years first years (2012).

Less choice of subjects means less teaching posts in schools as schools will not be under pressure to provide as broad as choice of subjects as they do presently. Teachers of minority subjects beware! Why have students in smaller classes for optional subjects when its cheaper to have less subjects on offer with larger classes.

If the proposed plan goes through it means that the junior certs will be doing just the same amount of subjects as the leaving cert (7) plus the one extra - CSPE.
It also means that students in first year better choose the right subjects because they will more than likely have little choice but to take them to Leaving Cert level .

rainbowtrout

Art Teacher wrote: »

The trouble is that i think it is being done as a cost cutting measure and thats why it will be implemented. The minister has said he will reduce subjects to 8 for next years first years (2012).

Less choice of subjects means less teaching posts in schools as schools will not be under pressure to provide as broad as choice of subjects as they do presently. Teachers of minority subjects beware! Why have students in smaller classes for optional subjects when its cheaper to have less subjects on offer with larger classes.

If the proposed plan goes through it means that the junior certs will be doing just the same amount of subjects as the leaving cert (7) plus the one extra - CSPE.
It also means that students in first year better choose the right subjects because they will more than likely have little choice but to take them to Leaving Cert level .

Not necessarily. Teacher allocation is based on student numbers, not subjects. So there will still be the same amount of hours, just spread over a smaller number of subjects in each school perhaps.

Some of the minority subjects will suffer, but it doesn't mean students won't have an extremely narrow range of subjects to leaving cert. Science splits into Physics, Chemisty, Biology, Ag Science, Phys/Chem,; Business into Bus Org (I know it's not called that anymore), Economics, Accounting. It's far more likely given the choice that a student might choose at least one of these subjects to allow for greater choice at leaving cert.

I do take your point on board though. I remember girls in my class starting fifth year having very little choice in some subject bands. Eg: choose between, art, biology, home economics, history. Didn't do art or science for junior cert, already doing history in another band, had to do home ec despite hating the subject.

Art Teacher

I am concerned that the measure to reduce the junior cert to 8 subjects will reduce teacher numbers. Once introduced individual schools and VEC's will have reduced ability to to negotiate on teacher allocation on the basis of curriculum provision and less ability to negotiate should the second level pupil teacher ratio be raised. ( Which is a likely move for the IMF to demand).

The minister is flagging up this matter now couched under the guise of improving literacy.http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10876&sectionpage=12251&language=EN&link=link001&page=1&doc=54375

Years ago, I remember there was less teachers and less subjects, Giant size classes were the norm. We teachers had to fill our timetable of hours with nonsense like " games' and 'singing'!. This time around I guess we will be doing literacy initatives - Drop everything and read, or " make a book" which is ok for me because I am permanent but I really am concerned it will amount to less teachers of subjects!

I am also concerned about the loss of subject choice at this developmental stage of a human beings life and of making sure that students can make informed and democratic choices about subject choice. Do students really know that not having science at junior cert bars them access from as much as 244 courses at 3rd level and that not having that third language bars them from only 161. The qualifax exercise linked here below is very insightful http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=96

dambarude

12 year olds are going to have to think very carefully about the subjects they'd like to do, especially in schools which make certain subjects compulsory (Geog/Hist/Science/Language).

They really shouldn't have implemented this until the new JC subject syllabi comes in.

Boober Fraggle

Just thinking about this a bit more, and following on from what Art teacher said. The limit in an art/science/music class is 24. The limit in a geography or history class is 30. It would make financial sense to have teachers of geography and history rather than practical subjects. I would hope this won't colour the views of principals too much.

rainbowtrout

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

Just thinking about this a bit more, and following on from what Art teacher said. The limit in an art/science/music class is 24. The limit in a geography or history class is 30. It would make financial sense to have teachers of geography and history rather than practical subjects. I would hope this won't colour the views of principals too much.

There are so many permutations it's not even funny. It could also be influenced by what neighbouring schools can/are willing to offer. There could be a lot of more of 'I'm sending Mary to the school down the road because she can do Science and Music there' but can only do one in the local school.

For a while it may be dictated by what permanent staff exist within a school. My school has 6 permanent science teachers on staff in a staff of about 30. We offer all 4 LC science subjects. The art, music, home economics teacher are all permanent as well so those subjects would have to be offered.

Art Teacher

Home Economics has the lowest pupil teacher ratio - 20 to one ( TUI directive).

TheDriver

Home ec is officially 24.1 according to dept and inspectors, its about the only ratio unions and dept differ

Art Teacher

TheDriver wrote: »

Home ec is officially 24.1 according to dept and inspectors, its about the only ratio unions and dept differ

This is useful to know. it makes sense that all practical subjects are equal in terms of student access and teacher output.

On rte news tonight, did i really see the minister flag that the new junior cert as being one of continuous assessment by way of digital submission.
In order for my students to access this assessment method the minister is going to have to hook the prefab up to the internet as a first step.

spurious

Art Teacher wrote: »

On rte news tonight, did i really see the minister flag that the new junior cert as being one of continuous assessment by way of digital submission.
In order for my students to access this assessment method the minister is going to have to hook the prefab up to the internet as a first step.

So true.

rainbowtrout

Art Teacher wrote: »

In order for my students to access this assessment method the minister is going to have to hook the prefab up to the internet as a first step.

The minister will probably tell you that you are already configured for wireless submission :pac:

whydoibother?

I just hope the new plans won't affect the credibility of the Junior Cert for students applying to universities abroad, where it is taken into account in the application process. I know it's not a life-changing exam in Ireland by any means, but it could have serious consequences for some people if it was watered down too much.

Art Teacher

I agree that the Junior Cert should not be watered down and it must maintain its credibility. The reason being cited by the minister for the change is in order to increase literacy and numeracy, but if this is the reason then change should be about introducing measures into the subjects to promote literacy and numeracy - not cut the range of subjects that students have access to.

Art Teacher

Submissions have been made from different Educational partners on revising the Junior Cert ; http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Post-Primary_Education/Junior_Cycle/Junior_cycle_developments/list_of_submissions.html
The IVEA ( VEC Sector) has made this submission below - If you see Art - well I reckon I may practice my singing technique again!
What a common core curriculum might comprehend
The common core curriculum for all students might include the following subjects.
English-Literacy
* Irish
* Maths
* Science
* An integrated social studies subject encompassing History, Geography, the Environment, Business and active citizenship.
* A combined Personal Development Health and Physical Education subject incorporating relationships and sexuality
.* Applied Technology – incorporating ICT and opportunities to taste a range of technology options before pursuing any one of them in depth.
*A European language – only a taster before making a decision about whether or not to study a particular language in depth.
*A creative arts subject incorporating music, art, craft and design - to provide students with an opportunity to taste these areas before making a decision about which electives to pursue.

dambarude

That sounds a lot like aspects of the primary curriculum. It would be impossible to implement without having History teachers teaching Business and all sorts of mad combinations. Whatever about getting certain children to sing and paint in primary school, forcing moody teenagers to do it would be another story.

What type of qualifications would the Teaching Council want for that arts subject? They'd have to drop some of their degree stipulations pretty quickly:rolleyes:

maynooth_rules

An integrated social studies subject encompassing History, Geography, the Environment, Business and active citizenship.

Good god can they squeeze any more into the one subject. History, geography and Business are vital subjects that have a lot of material for the junior cycle. To push them all together would be watering them down way to much. I really do not like the sounds of this one but

doc_17

I'm not sure that History, Geography and Business are all vital?

Most students at the mona only do a max of two of those, some only one.

spurious

doc_17 wrote: »

I'm not sure that History, Geography and Business are all vital?

Most students at the mona only do a max of two of those, some only one.

I suppose it depends on your definition of education.

doc_17

Absolutely. So Irish, English, Maths, History, Geography, Business would leave a student (under the new proposals) with 2 to pick from Science, practical subjects,DCG, Art, Music, ICT (which will probably be more prominant in a Junior Cert).

My idea would be under the new proposals:

Irish, English, Maths, Hist or Geog, a practical subject, Science, ICT, then one more to fit whatever suits the student best and within what's capable of being delivered at each school.

It's like the LC subject options.....you won't please everyone but that's just life.

CardBordWindow

Sounds like bad idea. HAving to pick in 1st year what subjects you're going to take, which may very well impact your career choices when you get to CAO filling out??

gaeilgebeo

Art Teacher wrote: »

Submissions have been made from different Educational partners on revising the Junior Cert ; http://www.ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Post-Primary_Education/Junior_Cycle/Junior_cycle_developments/list_of_submissions.html
The IVEA ( VEC Sector) has made this submission below - If you see Art - well I reckon I may practice my singing technique again!
What a common core curriculum might comprehend
The common core curriculum for all students might include the following subjects.
English-Literacy
* Irish
* Maths
* Science
* An integrated social studies subject encompassing History, Geography, the Environment, Business and active citizenship.
* A combined Personal Development Health and Physical Education subject incorporating relationships and sexuality
.* Applied Technology – incorporating ICT and opportunities to taste a range of technology options before pursuing any one of them in depth.
*A European language – only a taster before making a decision about whether or not to study a particular language in depth.
*A creative arts subject incorporating music, art, craft and design - to provide students with an opportunity to taste these areas before making a decision about which electives to pursue.

How can you group History, Geography, and Business into one category and then art and music into one category?
There is a much higher uptake of history, geography and business in our school than there is of music and art. Perhaps other schools differ.
I just think they are far too broad of subjects to be whittled down to one "overall" category.

rainbowtrout

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

How can you group History, Geography, and Business into one category and then art and music into one category?
There is a much higher uptake of history, geography and business in our school than there is of music and art. Perhaps other schools differ.
I just think they are far too broad of subjects to be whittled down to one "overall" category.

And even if you managed it how could a student carry on to the relevant LC subjects when there is no way they could cover the amount of material they currently study in individual JC subjects through a combination subject.

spurious

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And even if you managed it how could a student carry on to the relevant LC subjects when there is no way they could cover the amount of material they currently study in individual JC subjects through a combination subject.

They would have to have a major re-drawing of the LC syllabi too.
Ooh, money.

whistlin_boy

IMHO, it is not a good idea to limit a student to only doing a certain amount of subjects. For example there was a girl from Cork last year who got 15 A's in her JC...why shouldn't students who are perfectly capable of studying for more subjects than others!!

whydoibother?

spurious wrote: »

They would have to have a major re-drawing of the LC syllabi too.
Ooh, money.

In my opinion, they should abandon the Leaving Cert and introduce the International Baccalaureate.

It commands international respect - much more than the LC.
It is already in existence, so could be fairly cheaply implemented.