Labels on people with illness - problem or beneficial?

euser1984

Hi,
I always hear people saying that labels are bad? Are they?

Thanks.

elled

Well i think it is important to have a diagnosis so it can be treated in the best possible way but this is more relevant if it is a physical illness than mental ill health.

robinph

No problem with being called a diabetic.

I hate that this forum has the word "illness" in the title though.

I am not ill.

euser1984

What about aspergers if you don't mind being different. Is a label ok then?

Do people think that labels are bad because it distinguishes you from other people?

starviewadams

I don't tell many people that I suffer with depression because I know it can make people feel awkward/uncomfortable.If I had diabetes or any other 'normal' illness I wouldn't have a problem telling anybody though.

euser1984

starviewadams wrote: »

I don't tell many people that I suffer with depression because I know it can make people feel awkward/uncomfortable.If I had diabetes or any other 'normal' illness I wouldn't have a problem telling anybody though.

Problem is that people may think your odd which is not good for self esteem.

Although depression might be different from aspergers. I'm glad I know I have aspergers as now I have alot of answers. I told one person I had it though and she didn't change one thing - personally I would read up straight away. I told someone I had epilepsy and immediately she went on the net to find out about it - I liked it.

Even my family haven't asked many questions - grrrr.

nesf

starviewadams wrote: »

I don't tell many people that I suffer with depression because I know it can make people feel awkward/uncomfortable.If I had diabetes or any other 'normal' illness I wouldn't have a problem telling anybody though.

Try telling them you have schizophrenia, the double take is amusing.

Printemps93

starviewadams wrote: »

I don't tell many people that I suffer with depression because I know it can make people feel awkward/uncomfortable.If I had diabetes or any other 'normal' illness I wouldn't have a problem telling anybody though.

This is the problem in this country though. Mental ill health is seen as something to be ashamed of instead of something which can be easily treated .
Just like physical health conditions that no one else asks for Mental Ill health is exactly the same and as a society we need to stop this thinking that its rare and shameful and start to discuss it more openly so that people can be more aware and stigma will be reduced greatly

flutterflye

euser1984 wrote: »

What about aspergers if you don't mind being different. Is a label ok then?

Do people think that labels are bad because it distinguishes you from other people?

Aspergers isn't an illness.

Whether you have a mental illness, a physical illness, a neurological or psychological disorder, putting a label on it improves the chances of receiving the correct treatment, and it also aids understanding of the problem.

It is a personal decision whether or not you disclose the label to anyone.
Nobody is obliged to announce it to the world.

I personally think that it helps to be open and honest with most people, no matter what the particular condition is.

It lets others understand you better, and also the more something is out in the open, the more socially acceptable it becomes to be out in the open, therefore spreading awareness, and hopefully resulting in societal understanding and tolerance.

euser1984

Printemps93 wrote: »

This is the problem in this country though. Mental ill health is seen as something to be ashamed of instead of something which can be easily treated .
Just like physical health conditions that no one else asks for Mental Ill health is exactly the same and as a society we need to stop this thinking that its rare and shameful and start to discuss it more openly so that people can be more aware and stigma will be reduced greatly

People are always talking about this. I have seen one ad on the tv for it but nothing else. I go around telling people I have epilepsy and am going to tell people I have aspergers. If they don't know what it is I'll tell them. It will of course be at work or acquaintance sthough that I will tell it to because I avoid night clubs and pubs. I don't particulary like people thinking I'm weird just as a trait of my developed personality so aspergers makes me more peaceful and i look at the positives of aspergers (we really are up on most in ways as well) in that if I get interested in something....

I have a poem I wrote kind of like life for aspergers vs. other people (my own perception of course)

I was really asking with this thread though why do doctors and psychologists think labels are bad.

flutterflye

euser1984 wrote: »

I was really asking with this thread though why do doctors and psychologists think labels are bad.

On this, I have NO idea either!

I literally went from doctor to doctor to doctor for 3 years before I found one that was willing to refer my son to a clinic for assessment!
Every single one insisted that it wasn't good to label a child so young.
Eh..... He's my child, and I know there is something up with him!

Then when my son's psych was in the process of compiling his official report (after a year of assessments), it seemed to pain her to write that he had aspergers and adhd!

Any time she spoke of the aspergers or adhd in follow up appointments, she would almost whisper the words.
It's not something to be ashamed of like!

I have no problem saying that I have ADD, I have asthma, I have a chronic infection in my womb, and I think I have depression again.

euser1984

flutterflye wrote: »

On this, I have NO idea either!

I literally went from doctor to doctor to doctor for 3 years before I found one that was willing to refer my son to a clinic for assessment!
Every single one insisted that it wasn't good to label a child so young.
Eh..... He's my child, and I know there is something up with him!

Then when my son's psych was in the process of compiling his official report (after a year of assessments), it seemed to pain her to write that he had aspergers and adhd!

Any time she spoke of the aspergers or adhd in follow up appointments, she would almost whisper the words.
It's not something to be ashamed of like!

I have no problem saying that I have ADD, I have asthma, I have a chronic infection in my womb, and I think I have depression again.

Strange.

I have ADHD and aspergers as well. How is your son getting on? I'm mid twenties and I wasted alot of my life depressed due to these condition. Good that you got him sorted.

MUSEIST

euser1984 were you diagnosed as an adult with aspergers and if so how did that come about??

Sorry about the questions, if its too personal then just ignore. I am just interested because most people with aspergers are diagnosed when they are young.

flutterflye

euser1984 wrote: »

Strange.

I have ADHD and aspergers as well. How is your son getting on? I'm mid twenties and I wasted alot of my life depressed due to these condition. Good that you got him sorted.

He's only 8 now, and overall he's doing quite well.
I think that the early diagnosis has given him a decent chance to receive assistance in his weaker areas.

As apposed to me!
I was only diagnosed with ADD last summer, so I was 25 then.
And my husband was only diagnosed with aspergers 2 years ago, aged 26.

We would never have sought assessments for ourselves only that it became face smackingly clear while our son was being assessed!

I find that it's great to know that there is a reason for your 'eccentricities'!
But at the same time you have all this resentment about going all that time and no one picking up on it, and so many 'what ifs'.

euser1984

MUSEIST wrote: »

euser1984 were you diagnosed as an adult with aspergers and if so how did that come about??

Sorry about the questions, if its too personal then just ignore. I am just interested because most people with aspergers are diagnosed when they are young.

Aspergers this week. I was going to a psychologist for the last few months and this week was my last session. I considered that I may have had it before as a doctor I went to see last December mentioned it. Anyway I was going to the psychologist with depression issues and I found out on the report which he gave to me that many aspergers features have been noted. This week was my last session actually because the sessions were going nowhere. I am extremely stubborn in my opinions and also have been labelled narcissistic in certain things. (ya that's true but I hate that word) I couldn't engage with the psychologist properly. I'm glad I got the diagnosis because it explains so much....so so much.

I gave up trying socially after many years, that was about 2 or 3 years ago. I had no idea why I just couldn't do it and I tried over and over again. I have one friend now though who I think (and he thinks) has aspergers as well. We talk about computers and work.

im invisible

shur if there were no labels, how would the doctors know what medicnes to give them????

euser1984

flutterflye wrote: »

He's only 8 now, and overall he's doing quite well.
I think that the early diagnosis has given him a decent chance to receive assistance in his weaker areas.

As apposed to me!
I was only diagnosed with ADD last summer, so I was 25 then.
And my husband was only diagnosed with aspergers 2 years ago, aged 26.

We would never have sought assessments for ourselves only that it became face smackingly clear while our son was being assessed!

I find that it's great to know that there is a reason for your 'eccentricities'!
But at the same time you have all this resentment about going all that time and no one picking up on it, and so many 'what ifs'.

Ahhh I like having these issues - as long as the ritalin works for the ADHD that is. That's not always and my head gets absolutely fried. What is your husband like and how did you meet him?

I feel now that having found out I have aspergers it might help me to develop a meaningful relationship (with the opposite sex that is). Probably someone with aspergers as well. It's painful having to deal with other people with these conditions I have - I avoid them as much as possible. On good days I find I can't stop myself from engaging. Then on bad days I'm like a different person and people that have developed some sort of relationship with me and want to continue persuing it (that could have been put so much better linguistically) think I'm weird because I just stand there not knowing what to say or laughing inappropriately or saying things off the wall. Not understanding where a conversation is going and thus going off roaming while talking is a reason I stay away from people as well.

I dealth with bullying growing up (or rather didn't deal with it). Drugs, trouble with guards (not too much though). Problems with jobs (over and over again). Depression, suicidal thoughts. Good that your son knows the cause so he knows he's different by nature. He will avoid all that I had to go through.

flutterflye

euser1984 wrote: »

Ahhh I like having these issues - as long as the ritalin works for the ADHD that is. That's not always and my head gets absolutely fried. What is your husband like and how did you meet him?

I feel now that having found out I have aspergers it might help me to develop a meaningful relationship (with the opposite sex that is). Probably someone with aspergers as well. It's painful having to deal with other people with these conditions I have - I avoid them as much as possible. On good days I find I can't stop myself from engaging. Then on bad days I'm like a different person and people that have developed some sort of relationship with me and want to continue persuing it (that could have been put so much better linguistically) think I'm weird because I just stand there not knowing what to say or laughing inappropriately or saying things off the wall. Not understanding where a conversation is going and thus going off roaming while talking is a reason I stay away from people as well.

I dealth with bullying growing up (or rather didn't deal with it). Drugs, trouble with guards (not too much though). Problems with jobs (over and over again). Depression, suicidal thoughts. Good that your son knows the cause so he knows he's different by nature. He will avoid all that I had to go through.

I've been on all the different add meds available here, and the long acting ones have too many ups and downs, so I'm on the instant ritalin which is metabolised too quickly in my body so I have to take it every hour and a half, instead of 4 hours.
So every hour and a half I have to remember my dose, which is a pain, and I can only take 6 a day, so it only does me for a small portion of the day.
So fcuking annoying!!!

Met my husband at a party when I was 15.
I just decided he was mine and attached myself to him, and he ran away!
After about a year, he texted me and asked me out, even though I had thought that he had hated me, because he would never talk to me, he would only talk to the other guys about video games!

I think you should find someone you are comfortable talking to, and discuss how you are feeling.
Whether it's a professional, or someone who has gone through something similar.
I have two friends/acquaintances who have AS and ADHD, both who were also diagnosed in adulthood.
So there have to be a fair few out there with similar issues.

euser1984

flutterflye wrote: »

I've been on all the different add meds available here, and the long acting ones have too many ups and downs, so I'm on the instant ritalin which is metabolised too quickly in my body so I have to take it every hour and a half, instead of 4 hours.
So every hour and a half I have to remember my dose, which is a pain, and I can only take 6 a day, so it only does me for a small portion of the day.
So fcuking annoying!!!

Met my husband at a party when I was 15.
I just decided he was mine and attached myself to him, and he ran away!
After about a year, he texted me and asked me out, even though I had thought that he had hated me, because he would never talk to me, he would only talk to the other guys about video games!

I think you should find someone you are comfortable talking to, and discuss how you are feeling.
Whether it's a professional, or someone who has gone through something similar.
I have two friends/acquaintances who have AS and ADHD, both who were also diagnosed in adulthood.
So there have to be a fair few out there with similar issues.

Funny that actually. I have met a few girls in my life where they have attached themselves to me like that. They never stop either - it's not just a fling. I don't know what to do though. I am getting more comfortable in myself now though. I always develop really negative feelings towards them and end up hating them and only seeing their negatives. There has been one person this hasn't happened with though so maybe I feel there not right for me. This person I really liked though was such the opposite of me though I just couldn't do it.

Printemps93

euser1984 wrote: »

I was really asking with this thread though why do doctors and psychologists think labels are bad.

Because with Biology there are ALWAYS exceptions , like people with Bipolar dont always show signs of hallucination , It's mainly to save their own rep insted of misdiagnosis of a patients condition

irishh_bob

starviewadams wrote: »

I don't tell many people that I suffer with depression because I know it can make people feel awkward/uncomfortable.If I had diabetes or any other 'normal' illness I wouldn't have a problem telling anybody though.

depression is associated with weakness and fragility of mind , its understandable that someone would want to keep it to themselves , depression entered my life at the age of 21 due to the fact that i wasnt strong enough to fight off and deal with a toxic individual who was part of my life at important period , i actually perfer others not knowing about it , my family knows about it and this causes me great shame , my father ( now desceased ) knowing about it only added to the shame as he was extremley critical and unsympathetic to me all throughout my life

irishh_bob

Printemps93 wrote: »

This is the problem in this country though. Mental ill health is seen as something to be ashamed of instead of something which can be easily treated .
Just like physical health conditions that no one else asks for Mental Ill health is exactly the same and as a society we need to stop this thinking that its rare and shameful and start to discuss it more openly so that people can be more aware and stigma will be reduced greatly

mental health is not at all easily treated , the mind is a complete mystery even for doctors , compared to other problems treated by professionals and medics , i firmly believe that depression can never be cured , once it enters your life , you are changed forever , a part of you dies , which is why some peope cannot live with the loss and choose to end it , i know thats the way it was with me , happened when i was at a crossroads in my early twentys , i could sense something was happening me but i wasnt strong enough for the battle and laid down my defense , i allowed it in and ive been grieving for the old me ever since , living with depression means living with a much lesser you , some people hate settling for 2nd best but with depression , its always 2nd best

euser1984

irishh_bob wrote: »

mental health is not at all easily treated , the mind is a complete mystery even for doctors , compared to other problems treated by professionals and medics , i firmly believe that depression can never be cured , once it enters your life , you are changed forever , a part of you dies , which is why some peope cannot live with the loss and choose to end it , i know thats the way it was with me , happened when i was at a crossroads in my early twentys , i could sense something was happening me but i wasnt strong enough for the battle and laid down my defense , i allowed it in and ive been grieving for the old me ever since , living with depression means living with a much lesser you , some people hate settling for 2nd best but with depression , its always 2nd best

Yeah but you could also say different insight or perspective. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. These are just spins i'm throwing out - not saying they have been useful for me.

I have a sinister view of many many things now.

Have you been to a therapist?

irishh_bob

euser1984 wrote: »

Yeah but you could also say different insight or perspective. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. These are just spins i'm throwing out - not saying they have been useful for me.

I have a sinister view of many many things now.

Have you been to a therapist?

what doesnt kill you will only make your stronger is a banal cliche

ive always placed more stock in the joker from batmans take , what doesnt kill you , can only make you STRANGER

i dont believe in therapy , therapy cant change the past , paying someone to listen to you whinge is undignified

flutterflye

irishh_bob wrote: »

i dont believe in therapy , therapy cant change the past , paying someone to listen to you whinge is undignified

This is a misconception held by most people.

The particular approach you are referring to is most likely 'Rogerian Therapy'.
There are other similarly based approaches, but this is the most commonly known approach, and the main approach practiced in Ireland.

This is the type of counselling where a person is encouraged to work through their feelings, and their past. They are usually provided with a listening ear to discuss anything on their mind at their own pace, with little direction from the counselor.

This specific type of therapy is unquestionably helpful to a person who is in a particular place (figuratively speaking).
For example; If a person has been through a recent trauma, or if a past trauma has 'come back to haunt them', or if there is some overwhelming issue in the persons life in which they need to feel heard, safe, supported, comforted etc...

This Rogerian style therapy should only be used for a limited duration.
There is no general time limit on how long a person needs to be cultivated in this manner.
But it is not wise or advisable to maintain this stage for longer than is individually necessary, otherwise it can cause a person to become 'stuck', and prevent progression.
It is vital that the person is empowered and enabled to move forward.

Directive and/or goal orientated therapies do just this.
They do not accommodate a great deal of mulling over past events and feelings.
They are more focused on assisting a person to take control of their feelings, behaviours, and their lives.
Examples of this type of therapy are reality therapy or cbt.
And then there many are non-talk therapies too.

A lot of therapists will incorporate many different styles of counselling into their sessions depending on the clients individual needs.
However, most therapists will favour a particular approach or approaches, so it is necessary to find out what methods they generally employ, prior to undertaking counselling.

Also, there are a huge amount of unqualified practitioners out there who advertise themselves as counselors or therapists, and they could potentially cause long term damage to a person.
So ensure that the therapist is a member of the IACP.

(Sorry, I know this is long, and it is off topic. I just thought that should be cleared up.)

euser1984

flutterflye wrote: »

This is a misconception held by most people.

The particular approach you are referring to is most likely 'Rogerian Therapy'.
There are other similarly based approaches, but this is the most commonly known approach, and the main approach practiced in Ireland.

This is the type of counselling where a person is encouraged to work through their feelings, and their past. They are usually provided with a listening ear to discuss anything on their mind at their own pace, with little direction from the counselor.

This specific type of therapy is unquestionably helpful to a person who is in a particular place (figuratively speaking).
For example; If a person has been through a recent trauma, or if a past trauma has 'come back to haunt them', or if there is some overwhelming issue in the persons life in which they need to feel heard, safe, supported, comforted etc...

This Rogerian style therapy should only be used for limited a duration.
There is no general time limit on how long a person needs to be cultivated in this manner.
But it is not wise or advisable to maintain this stage for longer than is individually necessary, otherwise it can cause a person to become 'stuck', and prevent progression.
It is vital that the person is empowered and enabled to move forward.

Directive and/or goal orientated therapies do just this.
They do not accommodate a great deal of mulling over past events and feelings.
They are more focused on assisting a person to take control of their feelings, behaviours, and their lives.
Examples of this type of therapy are reality therapy or cbt.
And then there many are non-talk therapies too.

A lot of therapists will incorporate many different styles of counselling into their sessions depending on the clients individual needs.
However, most therapists will favour a particular approach or approaches, so it is necessary to find out what methods they generally employ, prior to undertaking counselling.

Also, there are a huge amount of unqualified practitioners out there who advertise themselves as counselors or therapists, and they could potentially cause long term damage to a person.
So ensure that the therapist is a member of the IACP.

(Sorry, I know this is long, and it is off topic. I just thought that should be cleared up.)

Didn't know that though I did know of two including CBT and psychodynamic.

I didn't go through my past so much. It was mostly about the here and now. I did not have the emotional capacity or insight for a lot of it. I tried CBT before but I think I was too stubborn. I just have to live now with being different to most people - I can do chit chit in extremely small doses on such things as the weather, otherwise I need to stay away from people as much as possible.

irishh_bob - You sound narrow minded especially if you haven't done it but I'm narrow minded as well so who I am to say.

irishh_bob

flutterflye wrote: »

This is a misconception held by most people.

The particular approach you are referring to is most likely 'Rogerian Therapy'.
There are other similarly based approaches, but this is the most commonly known approach, and the main approach practiced in Ireland.

This is the type of counselling where a person is encouraged to work through their feelings, and their past. They are usually provided with a listening ear to discuss anything on their mind at their own pace, with little direction from the counselor.

This specific type of therapy is unquestionably helpful to a person who is in a particular place (figuratively speaking).
For example; If a person has been through a recent trauma, or if a past trauma has 'come back to haunt them', or if there is some overwhelming issue in the persons life in which they need to feel heard, safe, supported, comforted etc...

This Rogerian style therapy should only be used for a limited duration.
There is no general time limit on how long a person needs to be cultivated in this manner.
But it is not wise or advisable to maintain this stage for longer than is individually necessary, otherwise it can cause a person to become 'stuck', and prevent progression.
It is vital that the person is empowered and enabled to move forward.

Directive and/or goal orientated therapies do just this.
They do not accommodate a great deal of mulling over past events and feelings.
They are more focused on assisting a person to take control of their feelings, behaviours, and their lives.
Examples of this type of therapy are reality therapy or cbt.
And then there many are non-talk therapies too.

A lot of therapists will incorporate many different styles of counselling into their sessions depending on the clients individual needs.
However, most therapists will favour a particular approach or approaches, so it is necessary to find out what methods they generally employ, prior to undertaking counselling.

Also, there are a huge amount of unqualified practitioners out there who advertise themselves as counselors or therapists, and they could potentially cause long term damage to a person.
So ensure that the therapist is a member of the IACP.

(Sorry, I know this is long, and it is off topic. I just thought that should be cleared up.)

those therapy journeys strip you of your authenticity and turn you into a generic clone of a person , always easy to spot someone who has been rebuilt

flutterflye

irishh_bob wrote: »

those therapy journeys strip you of your authenticity and turn you into a generic clone of a person , always easy to spot someone who has been rebuilt

No.
Exactly my point.

Directive therapy only encourages a person to come up with their own solutions, instead of living in the past or focusing on the unhelpful things.

You are just talking about non-directive talk therapy.

Printemps93

irishh_bob wrote: »

mental health is not at all easily treated , the mind is a complete mystery even for doctors , compared to other problems treated by professionals and medics , i firmly believe that depression can never be cured , once it enters your life , you are changed forever , a part of you dies , which is why some peope cannot live with the loss and choose to end it , i know thats the way it was with me , happened when i was at a crossroads in my early twentys , i could sense something was happening me but i wasnt strong enough for the battle and laid down my defense , i allowed it in and ive been grieving for the old me ever since , living with depression means living with a much lesser you , some people hate settling for 2nd best but with depression , its always 2nd best

Not everyone with Depression has the same outlook as you . some people are born genetically prone to get Depression and some just get it via environmental factors .
I personally dont think a part of you dies .A part of you slows down and begins to search for meaning in life because they are no longer content with being embalmed in a materialistic existence.
Mental Ill Health can be managed reasonably well treated perhaps wasnt the best word I could have used .I don't believe you overcome Depression in a sense , but you do get your life back .
You will always have the memories of that period in your life

euser1984

Printemps93 wrote: »

Not everyone with Depression has the same outlook as you . some people are born genetically prone to get Depression and some just get it via environmental factors .
I personally dont think a part of you dies .A part of you slows down and begins to search for meaning in life because they are no longer content with being embalmed in a materialistic existence.
Mental Ill Health can be managed reasonably well treated perhaps wasnt the best word I could have used .I don't believe you overcome Depression in a sense , but you do get your life back .
You will always have the memories of that period in your life

Maybe you do search for meaning but I was always that way anyway. The world is just a third eye concept we generate with just our 5 senses. Were living in the matrix.

euser1984

irishh_bob wrote: »

those therapy journeys strip you of your authenticity and turn you into a generic clone of a person , always easy to spot someone who has been rebuilt

I think you may be trolling this thread - not apt in any circumstance but particularly in an illness forum.

flutterflye

euser1984 wrote: »

I think you may be trolling this thread - not apt in any circumstance but particularly in an illness forum.

No, I don't get the impression that irishh_bob is trolling.
I think he/she just has a different view based on his own experiences and observations.
He is not 'wrong' in his views, he just sees things differently.

irishh_bob

euser1984 wrote: »

Didn't know that though I did know of two including CBT and psychodynamic.

I didn't go through my past so much. It was mostly about the here and now. I did not have the emotional capacity or insight for a lot of it. I tried CBT before but I think I was too stubborn. I just have to live now with being different to most people - I can do chit chit in extremely small doses on such things as the weather, otherwise I need to stay away from people as much as possible.

irishh_bob - You sound narrow minded especially if you haven't done it but I'm narrow minded as well so who I am to say.

open minded is over rated

irishh_bob

Printemps93 wrote: »

Not everyone with Depression has the same outlook as you . some people are born genetically prone to get Depression and some just get it via environmental factors .
I personally dont think a part of you dies .A part of you slows down and begins to search for meaning in life because they are no longer content with being embalmed in a materialistic existence.
Mental Ill Health can be managed reasonably well treated perhaps wasnt the best word I could have used .I don't believe you overcome Depression in a sense , but you do get your life back .
You will always have the memories of that period in your life

i wasnt materialistic before it entered my life , no more than the next 21 year old who had just been overseas on a working holiday down under , depression causes you to think too much , to engage in morbid introspection , this causes you to be less sociable and easy going with others , it makes you doubt yourself and for a man , completley destroys your ego , its a disaster for traditional males as you cannot get back this kind of natural earthy persona once its gone , you dont get your old self back , you get an overly consciensious , semi casterated shell of what you once were , thats why suicide is higher amongts men , they know that the old self is dead and cannot live with the loss , one of the reasons i have depression is because im annoyed with myself for not having had the bottle to have ended it , this makes you feel like an even bigger failure than before , thier is nothing more pathetic than a failed suicide attempt

Printemps93

irishh_bob wrote: »

no one is pre destined to get depression and no one gets depression for no reason , someone or something triggers it

Yeah ,they are !
I didnt say that they get it for no reason

How can you trigger something thats not already there ? (in the case of pre destined cases )

euser1984

flutterflye wrote: »

No, I don't get the impression that irishh_bob is trolling.
I think he/she just has a different view based on his own experiences and observations.
He is not 'wrong' in his views, he just sees things differently.

Ahem...the thread has gone completely off topic.

flutterflye

Lol, yes.

Discussion seems to have gone like this;

Labels,
Aspergers,
Mental illness,
Therapy,
Causation of depression.

I guess they are all relevant to the op though.
In my first post on this thread I was saying how discussing the illness or disorder openly hopefully leads to a deeper understanding of the illness or disorder.
Therefore making it easier for people to accept labels they have been given, or labels of those around them.
Ideally resulting in a society that is no longer afraid or ashamed of labels.

irishh_bob

flutterflye wrote: »

Lol, yes.

Discussion seems to have gone like this;

Labels,
Aspergers,
Mental illness,
Therapy,
Causation of depression.

I guess they are all relevant to the op though.
In my first post on this thread I was saying how discussing the illness or disorder openly hopefully leads to a deeper understanding of the illness or disorder.
Therefore making it easier for people to accept labels they have been given, or labels of those around them.
Ideally resulting in a society that is no longer afraid or ashamed of labels.

im not sure something so personal and unique to each individual can ever be properly understood by the general public , im not sure it needs to be either

robinph

Openly discussing whatever issue it is that you may have will be different depending on the condition, who your discussing with, and who you are.

euser1984

robinph wrote: »

Openly discussing whatever issue it is that you may have will be different depending on the condition, who your discussing with, and who you are.

It makes it difficult though because some you may not want to discuss with yet there perception of you may be very strange. This will lead to paranoia - I think people should know - but it's going to be different with depression as everyone thinks that have that and they do but there just back to normal again after a day or three.

I wonder does the depression they experience differ from actual "clinical depression. Of course constant depression does cripple you ultimately and turns on you more and more.

In the clinic there is dysthymia as well. It's easy with schizophrenia as people don't experience that and are probably afraid of you. Alot of people think there bipolar yet all they did was spend 100 quid on clothes. They haven't proclaimed themselves as Jesus Christ. I did and I still believe it too. The postitive in us is Jesus Christ. Jesus in my mind is just a projection of something abstract - probably developed by "wise men" so most can understand. Mother Teresa could be called Jesus Christ as well. I haven't even got a diagnosis of bipolar and I'm not even sure I have it. If I do have it it would be mild though. David Icke proclaimed that he was Jesus and was ridiculed - he probably doesn't have bipolar and he's not completely loopy - some of the things he's said have become true. So with many mental "illnesses" themselves it may very well be that it's just that our heads are wired to wonder what are all these people at, going to work every day and going to niteclubs getting drunk, having kids, nice car, bigger house than your neighbour with a 40yr mortage. I think society is a matrix because that's the way you manage large amounts of people. Also there may very well be something beyond what our limited five senses allow us to experience, in fact I think we can be pretty sure there is...of course there is radio waves, sattelite waves, sounds outside of our spectrum of hearing. Minds shaped by society.

Psychiatrists give people diagnoses of psuedoscience mental illnesses if there outside of the "norm" just like people are put into prison.

So maybe it's not possible to convince those knobheads but who cares about them anyway. Btw have you seen the new sun glasses Victoria Beckham is wearing this summer? Brainwashing at it's best.

Old days - Religion. Now - Gossip magazines, football players.

I think people say ya he's depressed when they see the sterotypical person, otherwise it's pull yourself together or you just have to be "positive".

Anyway I'm sure Ive missed out on what I'm saying, rambled, went off point, insulted people, didn't get accross my actual thoughts on the likes of depression, belitted depression. I know what suicidal thoughts are like though. Like everyone I have an opinion which is probably not valid as I'm not a professional, probably hasn't been thought through properly. All I know is that I don't so what I'm not drawn right into. Now back to configuring my bitcoin (advertisement - vested interest :pac: ) rig. I've been up for the last 9 days working all day and all through to 3 o clock or so every morning. I hardly ever get interested in this way - work kills me and probably caused by epilepsy. I think a part of my problem is that I was just doing wrong things though that insight did not come easily. Buried in my unconcious. Odd thing the unconcious. Hard to belive that everything is possible and everything has different talents. Tarot cards is something I'm interested in also at the moment. They give you direction which brings out unconcius possibilites. Wow.

Sorry about my rambling post. Was hard to read I'm sure - imagine putting up with that everyday - welcome to ADHD.

irishh_bob

euser1984 wrote: »

It makes it difficult though because some you may not want to discuss with yet there perception of you may be very strange. This will lead to paranoia - I think people should know - but it's going to be different with depression as everyone thinks that have that and they do but there just back to normal again after a day or three.

I wonder does the depression they experience differ from actual "clinical depression. Of course constant depression does cripple you ultimately and turns on you more and more.

In the clinic there is dysthymia as well. It's easy with schizophrenia as people don't experience that and are probably afraid of you. Alot of people think there bipolar yet all they did was spend 100 quid on clothes. They haven't proclaimed themselves as Jesus Christ. I did and I still believe it too. The postitive in us is Jesus Christ. Jesus in my mind is just a projection of something abstract - probably developed by "wise men" so most can understand. Mother Teresa could be called Jesus Christ as well. I haven't even got a diagnosis of bipolar and I'm not even sure I have it. If I do have it it would be mild though. David Icke proclaimed that he was Jesus and was ridiculed - he probably doesn't have bipolar and he's not completely loopy - some of the things he's said have become true. So with many mental "illnesses" themselves it may very well be that it's just that our heads are wired to wonder what are all these people at, going to work every day and going to niteclubs getting drunk, having kids, nice car, bigger house than your neighbour with a 40yr mortage. I think society is a matrix because that's the way you manage large amounts of people. Also there may very well be something beyond what our limited five senses allow us to experience, in fact I think we can be pretty sure there is...of course there is radio waves, sattelite waves, sounds outside of our spectrum of hearing. Minds shaped by society.

Psychiatrists give people diagnoses of psuedoscience mental illnesses if there outside of the "norm" just like people are put into prison.

So maybe it's not possible to convince those knobheads but who cares about them anyway. Btw have you seen the new sun glasses Victoria Beckham is wearing this summer? Brainwashing at it's best.

Old days - Religion. Now - Gossip magazines, football players.

I think people say ya he's depressed when they see the sterotypical person, otherwise it's pull yourself together or you just have to be "positive".

Anyway I'm sure Ive missed out on what I'm saying, rambled, went off point, insulted people, didn't get accross my actual thoughts on the likes of depression, belitted depression. I know what suicidal thoughts are like though. Like everyone I have an opinion which is probably not valid as I'm not a professional, probably hasn't been thought through properly. All I know is that I don't so what I'm not drawn right into. Now back to configuring my bitcoin (advertisement - vested interest :pac: ) rig. I've been up for the last 9 days working all day and all through to 3 o clock or so every morning. I hardly ever get interested in this way - work kills me and probably caused by epilepsy. I think a part of my problem is that I was just doing wrong things though that insight did not come easily. Buried in my unconcious. Odd thing the unconcious. Hard to belive that everything is possible and everything has different talents. Tarot cards is something I'm interested in also at the moment. They give you direction which brings out unconcius possibilites. Wow.

Sorry about my rambling post. Was hard to read I'm sure - imagine putting up with that everyday - welcome to ADHD.

amongst all the clutter , thier are a few pearls in there

Naikon

The information can be used against you just be aware. For instance, try getting a gun licence in an easy manner with severe depression recorded in your file. It's wrong to label an ill person as a "threat" just because they suffer from Depression or whatever. Not to mention that the docs are in bed with the drug companies who produce drugs of very questionable efficacy. Backed by psuedo scientific journal entries, no less.

Due to the fact that Psychiatry makes assumptions about people, it's very hard to prove you aren't sick to these people once they have passed their sometimes flawed judgement. These people are human beings, relying on systems that are not always correct. Misdiagnosis would be a larger issue, due to the general lack of clinical testing. Try telling a cancer patient they have cancer based on subjective obervations alone. Won't wash I am afraid.

Make no mistake, there is clear evidence out there to suggest the profit incentives from trivialisations of typical human traits. This in turn takes resources away from the real problems like Depression, which I might add, is NOT a chemical imbalance problem as told by the media or your doctor even. Don't take any advice without multiple opinions is my best advice. Don't take NO for an answer.

MUSEIST

Naikon wrote: »

The information can be used against you just be aware. For instance, try getting a gun licence in an easy manner with severe depression recorded in your file. It's wrong to label an ill person as a "threat" just because they suffer from Depression or whatever. Not to mention that the docs are in bed with the drug companies who produce drugs of very questionable efficacy. Backed by psuedo scientific journal entries, no less.

Due to the fact that Psychiatry makes assumptions about people, it's very hard to prove you aren't sick to these people once they have passed their sometimes flawed judgement. These people are human beings, relying on systems that are not always correct. Misdiagnosis would be a larger issue, due to the general lack of clinical testing. Try telling a cancer patient they have cancer based on subjective obervations alone. Won't wash I am afraid.

Make no mistake, there is clear evidence out there to suggest the profit incentives from trivialisations of typical human traits. This in turn takes resources away from the real problems like Depression, which I might add, is NOT a chemical imbalance problem as told by the media or your doctor even. Don't take any advice without multiple opinions is my best advice. Don't take NO for an answer.

Have you had a bad experience with the psychiatric profession Naikon? Just wondering why you repetitively have a go at them. You are of course entitled to your own opinion but you seem to be on a crusade against the whole profession. Is there a reson for this?

Naikon

MUSEIST wrote: »

Have you had a bad experience with the psychiatric profession Naikon? Just wondering why you repetitively have a go at them. You are of course entitled to your own opinion but you seem to be on a crusade against the whole profession. Is there a reson for this?

I have known two people who took their lives over poor mental health. The industry tends to present the issue as a mostly chemical one. This is entirely misleading. Depression is more than an illness imo. It's an adaptation of state resulting from variables outside the persons control. People who were abused for instance, did not choose that situation.

Sure, the brain of a depressed person isn't working on the same level as a "normal", but that is not enough to build an industry of drugging based on nothing more than scaremongering. I bet people would be more open about Depression if the scary drug association was removed. Introduce medication, people think something is very wrong, not that it could just be the result of a very tough life situation.

If the industry at large really cared about individuals, why is suicide still a larger cause of death than road deaths? Depression is very real, but I think the diagnosis might be a bit too lucrative to simply pass up as anything less than a chemical problem. The misinformation bothers me, mostly. Just because you are depressed, that does not mean you should be branded for eternity as mentally unstable. Why should you be potentially disadvantaged?

All of the above is in relation to the two people I knew. I feel the system let them down very badly, as most others on this thread know too well I believe.

Printemps93

Naikon wrote: »

I bet people would be more open about Depression if the scary drug association was removed.

I disagree .
drug association maintains a chemical balance , however relying on that chemical balance for the rest of your life is not ideal thats where therapy and coping skills come into play , there is poor emphasis on that .
social stigma associated with Mental Health is very high in this country and that is the reason not enough people are open about their mental difficulties

Naikon

Printemps93 wrote: »

drug association maintains a chemical balance

It's a lie.

Printemps93

Naikon wrote: »

It's a lie.

and you're a scientist who has constructed research into chemical imbalances ?
or are you a student in Neurology?
If you are then I give my apologies

Princess Peach

I was diagnosed with depression years ago and have been on medication and to councelling and very few people know about it. I think people who have never dealt with depression find it hard to understand and don't tend to think of it as an illness. There have been times it has affected my life that I wouldn't tell others about. Especially in work.

I remember being very sick with side effects when I first started my medication. Pretty sure the manager thought I was hungover as I asked for a stool to sit on for dizziness, but I didn't want to tell her the real reason.

I have gone home sick before when feeling down, but would always say I was feeling ill. I can't even imagine the manager's reaction if I rang in sick one morning and told her the reason was I was feeling down. I am sure she would laugh and tell me to get into work.

I scheduled a lot of my councellor appointments for my lunch hour this year, and would have to ask for a specific lunch time on the day. I would always say it was an appointment, never wanted them to know why.

I was supposed to travel abroad last year for college but couldn't because of my depression, and gave the reason that I was sick and had personal problems. I was dreading further questioning on the subject!

I have often missed out on things because of my depression, meeting friends or whatever, but I feel if I tell them this they will think I'm using it as a poor excuse? If I had a more tangible illness like diabetes or epilepsy, I feel they would be more understanding maybe.

I guess aswell I don't want people to treat me differently because of it. I don't want special treatment or to be given an easier time at work. I'm sure the same goes for labeling a lot of illnesses. I had a friend when I was a child who had diabetes, and I had asthma. We were in the same scout group and always got treated like we might die at any minute. On hikes we had to stay behind the rest of the groups and always stay with the leaders.

Naikon

Printemps93 wrote: »

and you're a scientist who has constructed research into chemical imbalances ?
or are you a student in Neurology?
If you are then I give my apologies

I am not ignorant enough to presume the explanations don't exist, it's just we don't know much about the etiology of Depression.

Here is an interesting article though. I would tend to trust Neuroscience over Psychiatry. Psychiatry is jumping the gun by selling drugs with very questionable efficacy.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/07/06/head_fake/?page=full

Where is the basis for this "chemical imbalance"?

Printemps93

Naikon wrote: »

I would tend to trust Neuroscience over Psychiatry. Psychiatry is jumping the gun by selling drugs with very questionable efficacy.

some of the physical symptoms
are treated with antidepressants . the rest is down to the individual
It's like learning to try ride a bike again with stabilizers .
If you have some of the physical symptoms you cant even try to learn to ride the bike .
You cant make yourself feel better If you are physically lacking the energy and motivation to even get up out of bed .
Plus they work for people ,studies have proved this . Some well known actors admit they would not be able to get out of bed without their SSRI

irishh_bob

Princess Peach wrote: »

I was diagnosed with depression years ago and have been on medication and to councelling and very few people know about it. I think people who have never dealt with depression find it hard to understand and don't tend to think of it as an illness. There have been times it has affected my life that I wouldn't tell others about. Especially in work.

I remember being very sick with side effects when I first started my medication. Pretty sure the manager thought I was hungover as I asked for a stool to sit on for dizziness, but I didn't want to tell her the real reason.

I have gone home sick before when feeling down, but would always say I was feeling ill. I can't even imagine the manager's reaction if I rang in sick one morning and told her the reason was I was feeling down. I am sure she would laugh and tell me to get into work.

I scheduled a lot of my councellor appointments for my lunch hour this year, and would have to ask for a specific lunch time on the day. I would always say it was an appointment, never wanted them to know why.

I was supposed to travel abroad last year for college but couldn't because of my depression, and gave the reason that I was sick and had personal problems. I was dreading further questioning on the subject!

I have often missed out on things because of my depression, meeting friends or whatever, but I feel if I tell them this they will think I'm using it as a poor excuse? If I had a more tangible illness like diabetes or epilepsy, I feel they would be more understanding maybe.

I guess aswell I don't want people to treat me differently because of it. I don't want special treatment or to be given an easier time at work. I'm sure the same goes for labeling a lot of illnesses. I had a friend when I was a child who had diabetes, and I had asthma. We were in the same scout group and always got treated like we might die at any minute. On hikes we had to stay behind the rest of the groups and always stay with the leaders.

we live in a culture now a days where telling everything about yourself ( warts and all ) is heavily encouraged , i dont buy into this , i think by opening up about yourself too much , you leave yourself exposed , a sizeable number of people will sieze upon percieved weakness and use it against you , by keeping your weakness largely to yourself , you maintain a degree of control over the situation and can content yourself from the fact that should you ever completley overcome the depression , no one will have been any the wiser , public info lasts forever and forever reminds you