Oil & gas in West Clare

minnow

It looks like there might be some gas in Clare: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1408131_enegi_oil_to_explore_gas_in_ireland

Looking at the Dept of Energy website, the block seems to be West Clare and Limerick: http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/6EA23858-7D01-49F7-9FA9-EEE41498653E/0/Onshore_licensing_2010_A3_clarebasin.pdf

According to the Enegi Oil website "A programme of work has been defined and will be performed to determine the prospectivity of the formation" which probably means they will do seismic evaluation. They can't drill yet, need another licence.

Does anyone know where and who is going to do this work?

CptSternn

This topic was raised years ago.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/concerns-raised-over-onshore-prospecting-natural-gas-clare

Apparently Shell are looking to build a refinery there just like they have in Mayo at Spanish Point.

Jim Martin

CptSternn wrote: »

This topic was raised years ago.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/concerns-raised-over-onshore-prospecting-natural-gas-clare

Apparently Shell are looking to build a refinery there just like they have in Mayo at Spanish Point.

That would be the final straw to break the camel's back for tourism in W.Clare, it's already taken a huge hit with the recession & Shannon losing 50% of its traffic in the last few years!

xyz1

Jim Martin wrote: »

That would be the final straw to break the camel's back for tourism in W.Clare, it's already taken a huge hit with the recession & Shannon losing 50% of its traffic in the last few years!

:rolleyes: hardly
Overreacting much?

I hope there's a sheetload of gas and or oil here, would be the best thing that ever happened West Clare.

Johnboy1951

Enegi believes the Clare Basin has the potential to contain shale gas.

Extraction from shale may give environmental problems if what I read is anything to go on .....

xyz1

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Extraction from shale may give environmental problems if what I read is anything to go on .....

Oh well if you read "something" from "somewhere" that "may" cause damage then we better knock it on the head I suppose....:rolleyes:

Johnboy1951

xyz1 wrote: »

Oh well if you read "something" from "somewhere" that "may" cause damage then we better knock it on the head I suppose....:rolleyes:

Oh boy!

neiphin

xyz1 wrote: »

Oh well if you read "something" from "somewhere" that "may" cause damage then we better knock it on the head I suppose....:rolleyes:

But is this just anecdotal and coincidental, or do fracking operations really pose a systematic danger to nearby water supplies? Via Stuart Staniford, here are the results of a new study of methane concentrations in drinking water http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/05/fracking-takes-another-hit http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20110630/us-gas-drilling-ny/


The Environmental Protection Agency has asked companies that extract natural gas to voluntarily disclose the chemicals in the liquids they use to tap gas reserves. Hydraulic fracturing, a method that uses a high-pressure blast of chemical compounds, sand, and water to fracture rock and access natural gas reserves, has drawn plenty of criticism, as companies have been caught injecting diesel and other toxic chemicals into the ground.
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/09/epa-gas-drillers-give-us-fracking-data

Johnboy1951

But is this just anecdotal and coincidental, or do fracking operations really pose a systematic danger to nearby water supplies?

Yes they do pose a danger ...... not because it is impossible to prevent the contamination, but because the lust for money/profit supersedes everything.

If someone can find an energy company/corporation that can be trusted with our environment, then it could be considered ..... good luck with the search for such an entity ....

CptSternn

xyz1 wrote: »

:rolleyes: hardly
Overreacting much?

I hope there's a sheetload of gas and or oil here, would be the best thing that ever happened West Clare.

Why would it be good?

Look at Mayo -

The FF government sold the rights to Shell. The Irish people get nothing, nada, zilch for the gas there. On top of that, the government cannot even collect TAX from it, so we really get absolutely nothing.

The workers? They are all coming in from Scotland to work the refinery, no local jobs are being created. On top of that the money they are paid is going home to the UK where it will be taxed there.

They are building a new pipeline which has never been tested anywhere that could have serious consequences for the local community if there is a problem as it is being built right next to a few different primary schools.

How is bringing that to Clare 'the best thing to happen ever'?

xyz1

I knew when this thread started that it would be full of your usual typical naysayers who like to wade in on anything positive that might bring something good to our community and knock the ****e out of it because they are ignorant when it comes to change. Typical of many people in West Clare. Not surprised at all. From laughable attempts at denouncing shale gas on environmental grounds to picturing the most negative outcome imaginable.

Having been involved in the gas industry and more precisely in the fracking industry for the past 5 years or so I can confidently say that it would be a fantastic thing for West Clare. Fracking is extremely safe when carried out correctly. I have worked on sites all over Europe, the only place I was ever concerned or had an issue with my work was in the UK where the laws regarding fracking and safety with regards to water contamination were suspect to say the least. However actually knowing the regulations in Ireland, it would work fantastically well as they are based on a site by site basis which is probably the second best in Europe with regards to safety and health, after Holland. I've worked in a carpark of a hospital in Amsterdam fracking and .

Any region I've been to comparable to West Clare (smallish rural communities) have benefited massively from the investment into the communities. Yes there will be lads from Scotland, but about 60% of the jobs are unskilled / require little training and would be sourced locally.

I can't with any degree of certainty allay your fears with regards to how the Irish government would deal with the business aspects of the industry, but if we were all to think the most negative outcome with regards to investment or business opportunity in this country then we would never progress.

Tabnabs

CptSternn wrote: »

Why would it be good?

Look at Mayo -

The FF government sold the rights to Shell. The Irish people get nothing, nada, zilch for the gas there. On top of that, the government cannot even collect TAX from it, so we really get absolutely nothing.

The workers? They are all coming in from Scotland to work the refinery, no local jobs are being created. On top of that the money they are paid is going home to the UK where it will be taxed there.

They are building a new pipeline which has never been tested anywhere that could have serious consequences for the local community if there is a problem as it is being built right next to a few different primary schools.

How is bringing that to Clare 'the best thing to happen ever'?

Do you know how much it costs to establish a new oil or gas field? Drilling alone costs half a million dollars a day! With ancillary services, a 100 day drill duration can cost up to $100 million. This is on top of two very important factors; first we actually find anything when the drilling is up and running and secondly, drilling in the Atlantic is very dependent on weather and has a short annual window.

So do you think it's reasonable for the Irish taxpayer to take on the burden of exploring and drilling for oil and gas? As well as the cost of associated production and transshipment facilities? There's a reason this is done by private industry and not state organisations.

On the employment side, have you ever been to Aberdeen? Plenty of Irish lads working offshore and onshore. Besides, do you think the Scottish workers were born with this knowledge? If they didn't have this industry on their doorstep, they wouldn't have the skills and salaries that go with them.

If you want to see how the oil industry can change isolated and remote areas, have a look at the Shetlands and now how the Orkney Islands are investing hard to build their expertise.

CptSternn

xyz1 wrote: »

Having been involved in the gas industry and more precisely in the fracking industry for the past 5 years or so I can confidently say that it would be a fantastic thing for West Clare. Fracking is extremely safe when carried out correctly.

Have you seen the movie Gasland?

I would beg to differ, especially considering the amount of money the oil/gas companies are paying to keep stories like the ones they show in Gasland off the front pages.

CptSternn

Tabnabs wrote: »

Do you know how much it costs to establish a new oil or gas field? Drilling alone costs half a million dollars a day! With ancillary services, a 100 day drill duration can cost up to $100 million. This is on top of two very important factors; first we actually find anything when the drilling is up and running and secondly, drilling in the Atlantic is very dependent on weather and has a short annual window.

You obviously have direct ties to the industry as your average person would have no idea about most of the things you said there.

Ireland could easily have it own resource exploration group in todays day and age. It could be true that a private company could do it cheaper, but like many industries the government could pay a private organisation to do the work instead of signing over the rights in full to a private company.

Lets not forget in Russia and Denmark the oil/gas companies pulled the same stunt - claiming there were no resources and offering to buy the rights for next to nothing just in case in the future new technology would render some results and then months later claiming a new technique shows that there were tens of billions in reserves off the coast. In both cases the governments stepped in and took control of part of the profits. Ireland has yet to do so mainly because of the tight relationship between some government officials and the industry.

This however seems to be changing quickly as our economy is collapsing and giving away tens of billions of revenue to a private company for absolutely nothing no longer sits well with many people.

Johnboy1951

It would be advisable for everyone to read everything they can about the process, the little information about the toxic chemicals that are used, and all the other horror stories that abound.
Yes there is exaggeration .... but there is also fact .... to be read.
There is also a lot of mis-information - from both sides of the argument.

Nevertheless there is sufficient information, and lack of information too, to cause serious concerns about this proposal.

To go headlong into the process, without sufficient consultation with local communities, environmentalists, regulators and law makers, would be foolhardy in the extreme.
Do we even have the ability to properly monitor such a development? Let's at least put the monitoring capability, with powers to shut down immediately if something goes amiss, in place before allowing something to happen that might have devastating consequences.

The proposal to use fracking in the Lough Allen basin has raised serious concerns and there has been quite a bit of publicity about it. Seems to me it is time that those in Clare, Kerry & Limerick began to take an interest.

This might prove a good starting point ...
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100017

The dangers that this procedure poses to the environment, to water quality and to human safety is well documented worldwide. France has recently banned the use of fracking as have a number of regions in the United States. In Lancashire in England, fracking has been halted in recent weeks following a series of earthquakes that occurred and are believed to be linked to the recent exploration activity using this method in that region.

Responding to Lenihan at the time (click here to read article) éirígí Sligeach activist Gerry Casey said that “such exploration and extraction has the potential for grave environmental damage and danger to human health and safety. We have seen in north Mayo the conflict that can arise when such developments, with the potential risks involved, are imposed on local communities. Once again in these instances, there has been no proper in-depth consultation with local communities who may be effected by this prospecting and possible extraction of gas.”

Some will not like the above source, so here is another which may be more acceptable

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0611/1224298716471.html

There is also a series of audio reports available on the internet ...... From RTE Radio 1 Drivetime programme ...

All I can say is that everyone needs to get as much info as they can so they can make a decision for themselves.

On the information available to date, I know which way I lean ..... but IMO it is everyone's duty to inform themselves so they can make their own decision, and hopefully act accordingly.

regards.

EDIT to add a couple of useful links ....
Concerning the Lough Allen basin exploration and the Aus company Tamboran ....

http://www.tamboran.com/node/9

http://www.tamboran.com/sites/default/files/products/Tamboran - Ireland - Lough Allen Basin.pdf

professore

While we're at it, why don't we tell all the Intels and the Pfizers to f off back to wherever they came from too ... since they are all evil multinationals, and while we're at it ban all internal combustion vehicles from our roads.

We'll pay for this by reducing social welfare payments and public service pensions to zero.

Clareman

Folks, this thread is quickly turning into a debate on national/international exploration, I'm struggling to see it's relevance in a regional forum.

Johnboy1951

Clareman wrote: »

Folks, this thread is quickly turning into a debate on national/international exploration, I'm struggling to see it's relevance in a regional forum.

I agree ...... but the effect on the region by this type of development could be great ..... for good or bad, depending on how it is managed and controlled.

xyz1

Clareman wrote: »

Folks, this thread is quickly turning into a debate on national/international exploration, I'm struggling to see it's relevance in a regional forum.

I think its important that we keep this thread here so people can see a number of different viewpoints in relation to this, it could be a massive issue in times to come for the people of west clare.

minnow

CptSternn wrote: »

Apparently Shell are looking to build a refinery there just like they have in Mayo at Spanish Point.

Can we please knock that rumour on the head now? Providence Resources has an offshore field called Spanish Point, which is actually closer to the Kerry coast that Clare. Drilled and found to be uneconomic in the 80's, but is now being re-assessed. Further info here: http://www.providenceresources.com/licence-fel2-04.aspx

Back to the original question, does anybody have specifics of what will happen in Clare, rather than speculation ? If actual drilling and production operations were ever to come to pass (which is probably only a small chance), this would only be good for the area, for jobs, training and pumping money into the local economy.

I am not at all convinced by the new anti-fracking fad. This procedure has been used all over the world for decades, and having worked very close to these operations in several countries I would have no qualms in a well being fracked beside my house.

323

CptSternn wrote: »

Why would it be good?

Look at Mayo -

The FF government sold the rights to Shell. The Irish people get nothing, nada, zilch for the gas there. On top of that, the government cannot even collect TAX from it, so we really get absolutely nothing.

The workers? They are all coming in from Scotland to work the refinery, no local jobs are being created. On top of that the money they are paid is going home to the UK where it will be taxed there.

They are building a new pipeline which has never been tested anywhere that could have serious consequences for the local community if there is a problem as it is being built right next to a few different primary schools.

How is bringing that to Clare 'the best thing to happen ever'?

Government sold to Enterprise, who were later taken over by Shell

Most of our electricity is generated from gas, we never had very much but basically have almost no gas reserves left. Without Mayo/Corrib the lights here will eventually go off. Irelands present policy is based on the dream that the UK continue to supply us to the point of letting its cities go dark in order to keep the lights on in Ireland. I think this is highly unlikely.

Forget the Banks, Energy is key to out survival as a country, we have the best renewable resources in the world but will not commit to that route, we wont even meet our pathetically low targets set for 2020. We have committed our energy generation from mostly gas, WE WILL HAVE NO GAS without Corrib.

The workers all coming in from Scotland - Not True, some were from north, got contracts because they were much cheaper and better than competition in south. Not much to be proud off but this is rip off ireland.

You will find people from Ireland everywhere in that industry in the world, they bring their money back here, pretty much balences out.

The companies doing the work in Mayo would have got their people from wherever they could get them. As most of the skills required would not available here, as it takes time to develope the skills in a new region.

CptSternn

What never ceases to amaze me is when in any thread on boards when Corrib is brought up people from all over Ireland who have never even posted in various forums show up to all back each others pro-shell views.

Seriously, none of ye are even in Clare, yet within hours of this thread the lot of ye descended like vultures, as ye have in other threads. Some of ye have already admitted to having ties with the industry.

Thats not illegal of course, but does raise lots of questions sure.

minnow

CptSternn wrote: »

What never ceases to amaze me is when in any thread on boards when Corrib is brought up people from all over Ireland who have never even posted in various forums show up to all back each others pro-shell views

...and similarly any time anyone brings up the subject of oil & gas (in this case my original question) it turns into a discussion on the pros and cons of Corrib and Shell.
In this case, it's a genuine question as to whether anyone knows what is happening and what contractors are doing it. The OP is in the industry and would prefer to work in his native county than abroad.

kilnamona

professore wrote: »

While we're at it, why don't we tell all the Intels and the Pfizers to f off back to wherever they came from too ... since they are all evil multinationals, and while we're at it ban all internal combustion vehicles from our roads.

We'll pay for this by reducing social welfare payments and public service pensions to zero.

Do you really think the environmental impact of "all the Intels and the Pfizers" is comparable to drilling for oil? Very poor analogy!

xyz1

CptSternn wrote: »

What never ceases to amaze me is when in any thread on boards when Corrib is brought up people from all over Ireland who have never even posted in various forums show up to all back each others pro-shell views.

Seriously, none of ye are even in Clare, yet within hours of this thread the lot of ye descended like vultures, as ye have in other threads. Some of ye have already admitted to having ties with the industry.

Thats not illegal of course, but does raise lots of questions sure.

I'm a Clare man through and through.

CptSternn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1AeH0Qz8

http://8020vision.com/2011/04/17/congress-releases-report-on-toxic-chemicals-used-in-fracking/

CptSternn

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8014:oil-drilling-to-start-next-summer&catid=63:business&Itemid=60

Oil drilling to start next summer

AN Irish exploration company plans to start drilling an oil and gas well 200km off the West Clare coast next summer. It estimates net value, based on current prices, at between US$1billion and US$2b.
Providence Resources Plc has been awarded licensing options in four new offshore areas as part of the 2011 Irish Atlantic Margin Licensing Round, including its Spanish Point gas condensate, by Natural Resources Minister Pat Rabbitte.

...

Senergy, a leading Aberdeen-headquartered energy services company, has carried out a competent persons report (CPR) on the resource potential of the Spanish Point and Burren discoveries.

I had to dig up this thread as people claimed this wasn't going to happen, and look here, it is happening. They are talking about building a refinery just like in Mayo @ Spanish Point and now the article points out oil and gas has been found in the Burren, so I wonder how long it will be before our government sells off the rights to those resources and opens drilling and refining in the Burren.

Don't say it won't happen as the pipe and refinery in Mayo is being built right through a protected wildlife refuge.

Johnboy1951

Unless people organise before anything happens, they will have no say in what occurs.

The potential is there to destroy a lot of what people value ....... and the potential is there for great benefit to Clare and to the country.

I believe it is up to the local populace to help determine which potential (or compromise of potentials) becomes fact.

If people do nothing, or are 'bought off with promises etc, then the worst *may* very well happen.

The time to get prepared is now ...... not after something physical begins ..... like preparation of sites or such.

minnow

CptSternn wrote: »

They are talking about building a refinery just like in Mayo @ Spanish Point and now the article points out oil and gas has been found in the Burren, so I wonder how long it will be before our government sells off the rights to those resources and opens drilling and refining in the Burren.

This proves what sensationalist bull**** is talked in relation to oil & gas in Ireland. Read the link that you provided!

The fields are called Spanish Point and Burren because of their latitude, not locations, i.e. they are off the coast of Clare. The article specifically quotes the Providence director as stating that the oil & gas would be brought into the Shannon Estuary, i.e. it will be processed most likely in South Clare, Limerick or Kerry.

How can you read anything about refining in Spanish Point or the Burren in this article....:rolleyes:

CptSternn

In Mayo when they decided to setup the refinery there and drill for the gas they said it would be done all off shore and would not impact the local community or protected wildlife refuge. It wasn't until some of the locals heard through outside channels that planning permission had been granted for just the opposite that all the troubles there began.

Whats to say thats not the same tactic they are engaging now? As Johnboy said, the time to protest is before construction starts. In Mayo they said one thing while getting permission for another in attempts to trick the local community as to be able to start the construction before anyone copped on.

I would be weary of trusting the same people in this matter. Once they find they can secure governmental permission to do it closer inland for cheaper, the idea of routing it down the Shannon Estuary will be out the window.

The route they submitted to the planning board among other authorites in Mayo changed a dozen times in the course of a few months, going from an off-shore project which it was originally sold to the community as, to quite literally an experimental refinery in their back garden.

To be as naive as to think it would never happen in this county when it just did a few miles up the coast is giving too much credit to a group that has already proven they cannot be taken at face value.

As the old saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

Jim Martin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1AeH0Qz8

Watched this film (105 mins) at the Kilkee meeting last Fri. It's very scary stuff indeed!