Religious Parents

colmos

What would you do in my position? I'm 18 by the way.

My parents are both fairly religious Catholics.
They still think I'm Catholic but I'm a gnostic atheist and have been for years. (Never believed the God concept)
My brother (21) told them he was an atheist a in February and they snapped and were raging for AGES and they were making all sorts of threats (which they never followed through with) but the rest of my siblings are all strong Catholics as well so they weren't too supportive of him either.

I just don't know if I should bother telling them cause of how they treated my brother for a while but I really just want to tell them.
They are just so irrational about not being Catholic its ridiculous
They couldn't actually understand why my brother wouldn't be going to mass anymore.
My Mom said to him, "But you'll still be going to mass, right?" after he explained he was an atheist! Not going to mass was the real trigger of her outrage which just confuses me to be honest.

What I'm trying to ask here is... would it be worth telling them? Is it worth the stress? If your answer is yes, how should I let them know?

How did you tell your parents? (If you found yourself in a similar situation)

RedXIV

best thing I did was get a job sunday mornings. can't go to mass then. My dad would be more religious than my mam and i'm pretty sure he knows how I feel about the whole thing but he couldn't say a thing once I was working during the hours of mass

If you can't get a job, say you've a club or something?

colmos

I do work weekends actually, but usually not at those times unfortunately. Don't think I'd get away without them really noticing or caring some how

token56

You're 18, you are entitled to believe in whatever you want and if you dont want to go to mass then dont go. Even if your parents dont agree with your believes they should at least respect them. Its not much to ask for and not the end of the world.

It depends on the reason you want to tell them, if its just telling them for the sake of telling them its probably not worth the trouble right now, if its the case of you having to do stuff you'd rather not, such as go to mass, which it sounds like is the case here, I'd tell them. If they get angry just tell them you're not looking for an argument just for them to be respectful of what you believe or dont believe. If they can't do that then they are being pretty immature about it all really.

Turtwig

OP,

It sounds like your parents are pretty devout, how is the relationship with your outed brother and family now?

Knasher

RedXIV wrote: »

best thing I did was get a job sunday mornings. can't go to mass then.

My parish was sneaky, putting on masses late Saturday and early Sunday. Difficult to get a shift to cover both times.

colmos

Knasher wrote: »

My parish was sneaky, putting on masses late Saturday and early Sunday. Difficult to get a shift to cover both times.

Same here there's just no gettin away from it

Malty_T, they're fine now (took them long enough!) but it can be awkward at weekends and holydays

token56, unfortunately their immaturity about this is the problem. But my reason is that I want to break out of the cycle of masses, holy shenanigans, etc

Bloody Nipples

Tell them you've converted to non-denominational Christianity and will be spending your Sunday morning reading the Bible in your bedroom

strobe

colmos wrote: »

I do work weekends actually.

Are you throwing cash up for food and rent? If so, you're an adult man. You can legally murder people for your country or marry a scanky 40 year old crack whore. Just tell them you no longer want to go to mass. Don't make a big fight out of it, just stay calm at all times and explain you would prefer not to go.

If your not paying your own way then sorry, their house their rules sonny Jim.

(That's my take on things anyway.)

colmos

strobe wrote: »

Are you throwing cash up for food and rent? If so, you're an adult man. You can legally murder people for your country or marry a scanky 40 year old crack whore. Just tell them you no longer want to go to mass. Don't make a big fight out of it, just stay calm at all times and explain you would prefer not to go.

If your not paying your own way then sorry, their house their rules sonny Jim.

(That's my take on things anyway.)

Not paying rent or anything but they wouldn't kick me out, and to be faur they can't make me go to mass....

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

Tell them you've converted to non-denominational Christianity and will be spending your Sunday morning reading the Bible in your bedroom

Hahahahaha!!!

Turtwig

My take on it, is rent or no rent it simply depends on the religiosity of your family. If they have truly come to terms with the fact that your brother is a non believer then by all means just tell them. However, if they still are holding grudges and looking down on him I'd hold off on it. In fact, I'd hold off until Christmas anyways that way you'll see their true colours for treating your brother. Religion is a strange thing, it can make even the best of people do the most condescending, vile and despicable things. Christmas time, is going to be the character test. My advice would be to wait until Christmas then if you're bro is getting treated like sh1t stand up for him. If you come out both you and your bro could ended being treated like **** and well it will be premeditated well in advance so ye won't be able to do much about and by the sounds of it your siblings might actually be part of it. Wait, stay undercover until Christmas time because that is the real test.

Like it or not until you really gain independence you are going to need your parents. If they are devouts then odds are they'll help a drug addict son/daughter more than they would one who's an atheist. "You brought this on yourself". You need to gauge their level of faith exactly before making that first move and Christmas is the best time. If they treat your brother decently then by all means let it free. If not, then you're going to have make some tough decisions.

Like I said though it all depends on how devout they are...

Rev Hellfire

colmos wrote: »

Not paying rent or anything but they wouldn't kick me out, and to be faur they can't make me go to mass....




Hahahahaha!!!

Spoken like a true adult...

Galvasean

Have you spoke to your brother about it?

CiaranMT

Tell 'em I say.

No doubt it'll blow back on the brother, they'll be accusing him of 'converting' you and whatnot.

But the more they're exposed to a different perspective, the better for their worldview.

colmos

Thanks Malty_T you've got your thinking cap on anyway!

CiaranMT, I have absolutely no doubt they will blame him for this even though it has nothing to do with him.

I just did the LC and I just told them during it I wasn't going to mass cause I was going to be studying... (great excuse!) but my brother told me later that after my mother freaked at me about not going, she went to him and said something along the lines of "look what you've done to him!", which I thought was appauling!!!

He told me that when he told her he was an atheist, while giving out etc etc, she told him to say nothing about it to me for fear I'd lose my faith (which I never had)

I was the only one who knew about his beliefs (or lack of belief) for ages anyway but this kind of "keep your younger brother in the dark about it" behaviour really pisses me off

This is what I'm dealing with like

Galvasean

Tell them it's contagious, then sneeze in their presence.

CiaranMT

colmos wrote: »

CiaranMT, I have absolutely no doubt they will blame him for this even though it has nothing to do with him.

I just did the LC and I just told them during it I wasn't going to mass cause I was going to be studying... (great excuse!) but my brother told me later that after my mother freaked at me about not going, she went to him and said something along the lines of "look what you've done to him!", which I thought was appauling!!!

He told me that when he told her he was an atheist, while giving out etc etc, she told him to say nothing about it to me for fear I'd lose my faith (which I never had)

I was the only one who knew about his beliefs (or lack of belief) for ages anyway but this kind of "keep your younger brother in the dark about it" behaviour really pisses me off

This is what I'm dealing with like

Did you confront her about going behind your back to give out to your brother?

Tell them that you never had any faith so. Tell them that you're the one who knew most about your older brother's lack of belief.

CiaranMT

Galvasean wrote: »

Tell them it's contagious, then sneeze in their presence.

I Lolled :pac:

Nailz

As Galvasean asked before; did you tell your brother that you are an Atheist? He might have some advice for you which, in all honesty, would be many times more valuable information than any amount of strangers can tell you on the internet. I can tell you are relatively close with him as you seem to be the only one in your family who can empathise with him, and vice versa.

robindch

colmos wrote: »

What would you do in my position?

Well, you're 18. You're your own man now, so you get to decide

One possible line is "Well, you always wanted me to make up my own mind when I was older. Now, I'm older and I've made it up and the answer is "No". I appreciate the thought all the same."

Alternatively, you could point out that according to the strict interpretation of the Vatican's rulebook, once you're baptized, you're a catholic for life. You just happen to be one that doesn't accept the existence of the CC's deity, or bother going to church.

More seriously, it's the kind of thing that some parents simply never get over. One elderly relative in my extended family rarely lets a day slip by without at least one offensive rant at her kids -- the poor unfortunates -- for being "intolerant, bigoted, narrow-minded atheists". On the plus side, they're never short of something to talk about.

Ultimately, you've to decide whether you're true to yourself, or true to their religious wishes for you. I'd go for the former, politely and respectfully put. From a distance. And quite possibly, from another place to live.

fatmammycat

Just tell them, they'll get over it.

Jimmy Bottlehead

I've been in that exact situation. Parents who aren't actually THAT religious, but who cannot bear to think that their community / family / friends / neighbours will start talking about their evil devil-child.

From 18 or so I started putting up a struggle with mass. At first they just fought and I would give in. But gradually I just dug my heels in and stopped caring what they said or thought on the subject.
As time went on, they grudgingly accepted that I would not go, and would stop asking. Or even would joke "ah sure you'll come tonight and see a few people from school" to which I'd politely decline.

In all likelyhood, it may never sit well with your folks, but just because they don't like your choice doesn't mean they don't like you. A few months ago, I told my folks I had defected from the church last year, and they actually flipped out. Went totally mental, even going so far as to say I was out of their will. I calmly replied that was fine. Again, time settled them down and it was fine the next day.

I would recommend just telling your folks, in a polite but firm manner, and make it clear you have no interest in attending church. Remind them that if they really are religious and good catholic people, they will respect your decision, and be patient and understanding. If they argue, lead by example and stay calm and insistant.
If they play the "what will the neighbours think?" card, just remind them that unless the neighbours are compete losers, they have bigger things to gossip about. And a bigger scandal is always around the corner.

I would echo what others have said, in that you should talk to your brother. Your folks will likely suspect him of corrupting you, so be sure to remind them that he did not.

Best of luck man, let us know what happens.

Malari

colmos wrote: »

Thanks Malty_T you've got your thinking cap on anyway!

CiaranMT, I have absolutely no doubt they will blame him for this even though it has nothing to do with him.

I just did the LC and I just told them during it I wasn't going to mass cause I was going to be studying... (great excuse!) but my brother told me later that after my mother freaked at me about not going, she went to him and said something along the lines of "look what you've done to him!", which I thought was appauling!!!

He told me that when he told her he was an atheist, while giving out etc etc, she told him to say nothing about it to me for fear I'd lose my faith (which I never had)

I was the only one who knew about his beliefs (or lack of belief) for ages anyway but this kind of "keep your younger brother in the dark about it" behaviour really pisses me off

This is what I'm dealing with like

Actually, that's very similar to what happened to me, when I announced I wasn't going to mass anymore. I was younger than you, but the eldest in my family and they wanted me to keep up the charade until my siblings had got the religious school stuff over with (2 more confirmations), because they were afraid I would influence them. They also admitted however, that they too were just going to mass for the charade of it :pac: so my parents would be different to yours.

I stood my ground though. They got over it. My sister was more upset than anyone that I refused to go to mass on christmas day (like that makes a difference!).

But we're all atheists now

I think tell them, but in a calm, firm way. Tell them it's a matter of respect for their views as much as yours. You don't want to take part in a ceremony that you don't believe in every week, but that means so much to them. You feel it would be disrespecting their beliefs by lying.

Dades

It doesn't sound like you're going to be disowned or anything like that - so I say go for it. You don't need to even use the word atheist which is probably the catalyst for kneejerk hysterics. Just say you don't believe and you never really have.

Also, be sure you let them know this isn't a choice - it's not that you don't want to believe -you've seen how your brother was treated - you just don't and can't believe.

They can't make you believe in something you can't make yourself do.

Always be the most calm and reasonable person in the room, and accept it won't be accepted immediately and you will have to work at it.

Best of luck.
(There's a free couch in Galvasean's if things don't go as planned ).

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

It doesn't sound like you're going to be disowned or anything like that - so I say go for it. You don't need to even use the word atheist which is probably the catalyst for kneejerk hysterics. Just say you don't believe and you never really have.

Oh yeah this one is key. You're an agnostic not atheist.:D
Also Malari's advice was excellent. Show that you're been selfless not selfish.:)
Finally, this a big decision, hope it works out well for you. I just hope you've gauged your parents and siblings correctly. If they're like mine then you've got no hope. So,well, yeah I very much hope they're not.

Malari

Dades wrote: »

It doesn't sound like you're going to be disowned or anything like that - so I say go for it. You don't need to even use the word atheist which is probably the catalyst for kneejerk hysterics. Just say you don't believe and you never really have.

Oh yes, I meant to say this too! I never referred to myself as atheist as a teenager. I didn't realise that's what I was until later! Just say you don't want to go to mass and you don't believe the teachings of the church. Just omit that you don't believe the teachings of any church!

Beruthiel

Dades wrote: »

Also, be sure you let them know this isn't a choice - it's not that you don't want to believe -you've seen how your brother was treated - you just don't and can't believe.

Put it simply to them, use Santa as as an analogy.
I can no more make myself believe in Santa then I can make myself believe in the teachings of the Catholic church.

Turtwig

Beruthiel wrote: »

Put it simply to them, use Santa as as an analogy.
I can no more make myself believe in Santa then I can make myself believe in the Catholic church.

No that would be deemed an insult. Be very careful! Religious folks are very sensitive at the idea of you equating things that are so obviously not true e.g FSM, santa, fairies. to their beliefs. This is why so many of them fail to understand the point behind the FSM. Don't mention it, when you're discussing someone's faith they often regard it as something very personal to them and are more likely to see your santa comparison as a belittlement of their beliefs. Yes, of course it wasn't belittling but that's how they will be perceive it. Leave santa out.

gbee

In your personal case, don't bother. You can do without their guilt at such a young age, it'll only torture you and in the long run it's just not worth it.

colmos

Sound advice people, I really appreciate it. To answer some questions aboit my brother, yeah I frequently talk to him about this stuff. He recommended I wait a few months after he told them and at keast wait til I'm an adult etc.

I have no real "fear" (not sure what to call it) of the rest of my family's reactions cause I can just tell them to fook off more or less but I know a bad reaction is coming my way from the mother in particular. Dad went all weird on my brother when he my brother told the parents. He was jeering him saying, "Well aren't you the enlightened one!!!"

Gotta tell ya, you learn a lot about how ugly your parents attitudes can be when things like this are being talked about.

I just know my mother will try to ban this and that or rules against this and that etc until I give in if I tell her but I really just want to get this off my chest.

She tried that with my brother too though but he just completely ignored her and just acted as if nothing happened but I don't know if it will go as sweetly for me

Beruthiel

colmos wrote: »

Gotta tell ya, you learn a lot about how ugly your parents attitudes can be when things like this are being talked about.

Your parents are your parents colmos. They are also human beings with flaws like the rest of us.

My parents are in their early 70's and very religious. I have never told them I am an atheist.
If they were to ask, I would tell the truth but i'm not going to go out of my way to bring up that particular can of worms.
I would be bursting their bubble and upsetting them.
I personally would not go out of my way to do that to them, I would consider it very selfish of me.

However, your parents must be round my age and I would consider them more robust and able for this sort of discussion.
Is it something you feel you absolutely most talk to them about?
I used to pretend to go to a later mass than my parents, really I was meeting up with my b/f.

magicbastarder

colmos wrote: »

My brother (21) told them he was an atheist a in February and they snapped and were raging for AGES and they were making all sorts of threats (which they never followed through with)

did they threaten to report him to god?

Beruthiel

magicbastarder wrote: »

did they threaten to report him to god?

They threatened to write to the Pope.
Big Bro would be in loadsa trouble then!

magicbastarder

i was lucky, i just told my mum i wasn't going to mass anymore.

maybe one way to approach it would be to start out in an easier way - tell her that you cannot continue to support the RCC after all the revelations of the last ten or twenty years, and you are not going to give implicit or explicit approval by attending mass. tell her you're going to follow your own version of spirituality.

Knasher

colmos wrote: »

To answer some questions aboit my brother, yeah I frequently talk to him about this stuff. He recommended I wait a few months after he told them and at keast wait til I'm an adult etc.

He might have a point. Back when I was first learning to drive my parents were very strict with me and what I was allowed to do with the car. However after seeing that I didn't turn into a hooligan or a dangerous driver they gradually started to give me a bit more leeway and extended the same automatically to my younger siblings. Same for a lot of other situations. If you wait until after your parents have realised your brother hasn't taken up baby eating or whatever else, then they would be a lot more relaxed about it for your turn.

Beruthiel

Knasher wrote: »

If you wait until after your parents have realised your brother hasn't taken up baby eating or whatever else, then they would be a lot more relaxed about it for your turn.

True that.
Being the eldest means being the trail blazer for all your younger siblings.
My younger sisters got away with murder compared to me!

MariaBlaah

i was the same.. about a year ago i said one sunday morning that i wasnt going to mass.. my dad actually literally dragged me out the door. my mom started crying during mass and then when we got home i just talked to them and went down to my room... few minutes later my dad came in and told me to get down to the kitchen.. my mom was knelling in the middle of the floor bawling o.O i hugged her telling her it was alright but that i wasnt changing my mind. it took a few weeks for them to stop asking me to go (i just stayed in bed until they left!) i have gone to mass a couple of times just to keep things..peaceful?.. on funerals, anniversaries, christmas (i kind of like christmas mass though - all the kids are brung up and they sing christmas songs (not religious ones!) and a few are asked what they asked santa for/what they got from santa). im 19 now and they have stopped saying anything but i think ill go just a couple of times a year just to keep them happy! its easier.
and i hate how people are saying "youre 18 like!!" o.O as my mom says.. "you may be 19 but until you move out of here you live by our rules and i dont care about what anybody else does!" it sounds like your parents are the same!
the only thing is is that after i refused to go to mass, mom refused to go to town on sunday.. and i cant drive so...! even if i could, i would have to use their car as there wouldnt be money to by a different one, insurance and tax..
i think you should tell them (but dont make a big cermony out of it, sitting them down and all that, just say it casually), yes they will freak, they will blame your brother, but eventually they will get over it!

Dades

Malari wrote: »

Oh yes, I meant to say this too! I never referred to myself as atheist as a teenager. I didn't realise that's what I was until later! Just say you don't want to go to mass and you don't believe the teachings of the church. Just omit that you don't believe the teachings of any church!

Not sure about mentioning mass or the teachings of the church. This is deeper than that. It's not about a rejection of catholicism as that's too obvious - a rejection of the God concept has more gravitas.

So do not let your parents think this is just an excuse to get out of mass. I wouldn't even mention it. This is about establishing what your personal beliefs, not about knock-on consequences like not going to mass.

(Accordingly, don't bring this up on Sunday morning when you want a lie in and everyone is getting on their finery - your motives will be questioned.)

If you want this to work you have too show you have no agenda other than the desire for honesty, and to get this burden off your back. Then come Sunday expect another showdown when mass is on cards.

Malari

Dades wrote: »

Not sure about mentioning mass or the teachings of the church. This is deeper than that. It's not about a rejection of catholicism as that's too obvious - a rejection of the God concept has more gravitas.

So do not let your parents think this is just an excuse to get out of mass. I wouldn't even mention it. This is about establishing what your personal beliefs, not about knock-on consequences like not going to mass.

(Accordingly, don't bring this up on Sunday morning when you want a lie in and everyone is getting on their finery - your motives will be questioned.)

If you want this to work you have too show you have no agenda other than the desire for honesty, and to get this burden off your back. Then come Sunday expect another showdown when mass is on cards.

Really? Because I think not wanting to go to mass is much more a realistic thing for a parent to understand in a teenager. And accept.

I mean I used to go from railing against mass, then all church activities, then catholicism in general to all religion. It just sort of became obvious as the months and years went on that I was an atheist. Now I can talk about it perfectly openly with them. And I do.

Dades

To my mind by declaring first "I don't want to go to mass" you risk being thought of as simply trying to get out of a tedious obligation, thereby threatening the credibility of any subsequent rejection of belief.

Is the OP going to confront his parents to get out of mass, or to come clean about his lack of belief in religion?

Mass is (or should) be a secondary issue to what the OP has to say for himself.

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

It doesn't sound like you're going to be disowned or anything like that - so I say go for it. You don't need to even use the word atheist which is probably the catalyst for kneejerk hysterics. Just say you don't believe and you never really have.

Also, be sure you let them know this isn't a choice - it's not that you don't want to believe -you've seen how your brother was treated - you just don't and can't believe.

They can't make you believe in something you can't make yourself do.

Always be the most calm and reasonable person in the room, and accept it won't be accepted immediately and you will have to work at it.

Best of luck.
(There's a free couch in Galvasean's if things don't go as planned ).

You sir, have just talked your way out of a thanks!

Turtwig

Galvasean wrote: »

You sir, have just talked your way out of a thanks!

Eh no he didn't. He offered your appartment instead of mine, that gains him a thanks.:p

Galvasean

Malty_T wrote: »

Eh no he didn't. He offered your appartment instead of mine, that gains him a thanks.:p

Yeah, but I'm the moderator of A&A so my thanks count for more.

CiaranMT

Galvasean wrote: »

Yeah, but I'm the moderator of A&A so my thanks count for more.

Since when? :P

Turtwig

Oh that avatar is just crying out for a photoshop job.:D

colmos

Dades you got it all right. They wouldn't mind as long as I'm part of a Christian denomination. The god concept is my problem though an letting them know that is my primary focus... not going to mass is just a secondary to it, but it definitely would be liked!

Dwaegon

OP, tell them you're thinking about joining some satan-worshipping cult because the more you learn about christianity, the more curious you get about the 'dark side', spark a huge argument, and pretend to meet them in the middle with being agnostic.

They'll think they've won, but you'll actually come out on top!

(I give this strategy a 10% chance of you being sent to bible camp for rehabilitation into the church)

Galvasean

Ease them into it. Start off not believing in the Catholic Church's teachings but you do like Jesus, then tell them you're not necessarily Christian but you do believe in God (of sorts), then become a deist, then an agnostic. By 2064 you shoud be safe enough telling them you're an atheist.

colmos

Dwaegon wrote: »

OP, tell them you're thinking about joining some satan-worshipping cult because the more you learn about christianity, the more curious you get about the 'dark side', spark a huge argument, and pretend to meet them in the middle with being agnostic.

They'll think they've won, but you'll actually come out on top!

(I give this strategy a 10% chance of you being sent to bible camp for rehabilitation into the church)

Yeah.... lets see how that goes... she'd try to have me exorcised!
She actually does believe in that weird shît though

Galvasean wrote: »

Ease them into it. Start off not believing in the Catholic Church's teachings but you do like Jesus, then tell them you're not necessarily Christian but you do believe in God (of sorts), then become a deist, then an agnostic. By 2064 you shoud be safe enough telling them you're an atheist.

Ehhhh... they'll be dead by then!!! :pac:

philologos

Beruthiel wrote: »

Put it simply to them, use Santa as as an analogy.
I can no more make myself believe in Santa then I can make myself believe in the teachings of the Catholic church.

LOL, that would really make it go down much better for the OP :rolleyes:

OP: I think you should tell them, but tell them that you simply don't believe in it. Don't get into the nonsense of comparing their beliefs to Santa or the FSM because that's just provocation. Just tell them that you don't believe and that you respect their right and liberty to be Catholics and as a result they should respect your liberty to be an atheist.

Turtwig

philologos wrote: »

LOL, that would really make it go down much better for the OP :rolleyes:

OP: I think you should tell them, but tell them that you simply don't believe in it. Don't get into the nonsense of comparing their beliefs to Santa or the FSM because that's just provocation. Just tell them that you don't believe and that you respect their right and liberty to be Catholics and as a result they should respect your liberty to be an atheist.

See I love this.

I know you'll laugh at the FSM suggestion but can you please explain the difference between the FSM and God.:D