Build a PC

jack888

Hi,

Was thinking about buying a desktop. Checked up some prices on sites like komplett.ie...then I thought why dont I just build one myself. Will this be much cheaper, can I get a much more powerful pc.

I have a budget of 1000, I dont need a monitor, mouse, keyboard or Windows license, I have all this already.

Just want it to be as fast as possible.

Help me out?

deconduo

Something like this:

Total build cost: €921.41 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €173.55
ASRock P67 Extreme4 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX €130.55
HIS HD 6950 Fan GDDR5 2048MB Native HDMI 2xDVI 2xMiniDP €204.99
XFX PRO750W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €75.21
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €54.98
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €44.09
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA €17.71
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B, CPU-Kühler, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.99
Crucial M4 64GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") €96.59

-Pretty much the best gaming CPU around, the i7-2600k is wasted money if you don't need hyperthreading. Amazing cooler as well so overclocking will be a breeze.
-A single 6950 will run pretty much any game out at the moment on max settings. Also the option to get a second one for crossfire later on down the line.
-Fast SSD. You could get a 128GB as well if you wanted, though that would push you over budget.
-Quiet, stylish case.

jack888

Thanks deconduo,

How difficult is this to put together?
Is it possible to buy the bits from an Irish site, not germany?
How noisy would this desktop be?

Im curious, how much would it cost to just buy a pc like this outright, and not put it together, how much savings are made?

Cheers for help.

PseudoFamous

jack888 wrote: »

How difficult is this to put together?

Slightly trickier than lego.

jack888 wrote: »

Is it possible to buy the bits from an Irish site, not germany?

While it is possible, it's not cost efficient. HWV is probably where you'll find the best prices for those parts, sans second hand

jack888 wrote: »

How noisy would this desktop be?

Not very. The Fractal case has noise insulation installed, and fan controls, so it won't fart out noise unless you have the fans cranked right up when gaming (and even then, it's not overly disruptive).

heid

The graphics card would be the noisiest.

This card for me tends to get noisy when you reach 40% fan speed.
The automatic fan speed is okay if you don't game too much but it never rises to above 33% fan speed which is rubbish as your graphics card just heats up.

The best option is to have a custom fan profile via trixx or afterburner.

jack888

I can increase the budget for this if necessary.

Could anyone tell me how much I save buy building my own desktop rather then just buy a similar spec one ready out of the box.

Im curious to know how much money can be saved?

PseudoFamous

jack888 wrote: »

Could anyone tell me how much I save buy building my own desktop rather then just buy a similar spec one ready out of the box.

You're looking at about €1800 for a similar spec PC out of box, using Dell as a benchmark.

Fluffy88

Yeah at a high end spec your looking at a few hundred euro saved by building. Not only is it cheaper, you get better parts, you know your computer better, have the ability to overclock and you can easily upgrade the computer in the future. Plus the enjoyment you get from building the computer yourself.

To me it's a no brainer, building is always better than buying.

jack888

PseudoFamous wrote: »

You're looking at about €1800 for a similar spec PC out of box, using Dell as a benchmark.

Ok,

i was curious, so I built a dell desktop on their webpage.
Price came to 1300, looks like very similar specs, with keyboard, mouse, office, operating system and 1 year warentee also thrown in, none of which I need, but prices look very similar considering.

http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=d00x8303&c=ie&l=en&s=dhs&cs=iedhs1&model_id=xps-8300

Included in your system:PROCESSORIntel® Core™ i5-2500 Processor (3.30GHz, 6MB)editOPERATING SYSTEMEnglish Genuine Windows®7 Home Premium (64 BIT)editSYSTEM RECOVERYOS Windows® Recovery Media Not includededitSERVICES AND SUPPORT1 year of coverage included with your PCeditDATASAFE ONLINE BACKUPDataSafe Online Backup 2GB - 1 year licenceeditOFFICE SOFTWAREMicrosoft® Office Starter: reduced-functionality Word & Excel w/ads. No PowerPoint or OutlookeditPROTECT YOUR NEW PCMcAfee® Security Centre - 15 Month Protection - EnglisheditMONITORDisplay Not IncludededitOPTICAL DRIVEDVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD) with Roxio and DVD Burn softwareeditMEMORY8192MB Dual Channel DDR3 1333MHz [4x2048] MemoryeditHARD DRIVE1.5TB (7,200rpm) Serial ATA Hard DriveeditGRAPHICS CARDAMD Radeon™ HD 6950 2GB DDR5 Graphics CardeditKEYBOARDDell™ USB Entry Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)editMOUSEDell Laser Mouse USB (6 buttons scroll) BlackeditSOUND SOFTWARESound : Integrated 7.1 with THX® TruStudioedit

deconduo

That system has:
-No SSD (+€100)
-Cheap case (+€60)
-Cheap PSU (+€40)
-Stock cooler (+€35)
-Non-K version CPU, so no overclocking (+€10)
-Cheap motherboard (+€80)

It does have
-Windows (-€75)
-Mouse/keyboard (-€10)

The warranty is only 1 year parts and service, whereas if you build your own each part will have anything from 3-5 years warranty up to a lifetime warranty for some components.

Tar.Aldarion

you could just get the german site to build your pc for you, they charge 20 euro, people on this forum will also do it for you for free. No point in getting a dell
and lots of those parts are ****ter

jack888

deconduo wrote: »

That system has:
-No SSD (+€100)
-Cheap case (+€60)
-Cheap PSU (+€40)
-Stock cooler (+€35)
-Non-K version CPU, so no overclocking (+€10)
-Cheap motherboard (+€80)

It does have
-Windows (-€75)
-Mouse/keyboard (-€10)

The warranty is only 1 year parts and service, whereas if you build your own each part will have anything from 3-5 years warranty up to a lifetime warranty for some components.

Thanks,
That helps a lot. I guess Ill have to do some research on the parts.

Mister Man

Whatever you do, just don't buy a PC out of the box! Build it, or get HWVS to build it if you don't want to.

hare05

While were at it... what will you use it for? Your budget may be a grand but there's no need to spend that much.
For instance, drop the SSD, it does increase performance in terms of decreased loading times, but your average 7200rpm drive will launch crysis 2 / battlefield bc2 in just over a second anyway. Windows 7 boots fairly quick as it is.

Also, although the rest mentioned are pretty optimal on price / performance, I could build a pc for 600 or less that would play everything on pretty close to max settings until DX12 comes out, and then the only reason for an upgrade would be incompatibility with newer games tech.

My current pc I build in 2005. Updated the graphics card once, to a GTX460 Cyclone, and it maxed out battlefield and crysis 1 and 2 on a 5 year old rig with an e6600 and 4gb of mismatched 667mhz ram!

jack888

Mister Man wrote: »

Whatever you do, just don't buy a PC out of the box! Build it, or get HWVS to build it if you don't want to.

Oh, why you say that, price?

Mister Man

jack888 wrote: »

Oh, why you say that, price?

Price & the fact they use the cheapest parts they can get away with to make the most profit. Building it yourself, is not only good fun, but is a lot easier then most people would think.
Knowing all your parts are top quality is great, and not some cheap PSU/MoBo/HDD etc that HP/Dell/Acer use.

M00lers

Mister Man wrote: »

Price & the fact they use the cheapest parts they can get away with to make the most profit. Building it yourself, is not only good fun, but is a lot easier then most people would think.
Knowing all your parts are top quality is great, and not some cheap PSU/MoBo/HDD etc that HP/Dell/Acer use.

Exactly, the build deconduo put together is nigh on perfect with quality components, OP, you would be mad to go with an off the shelf PC.

jack888

Guys forgive the stupid question,

But what exactly is the purpose of this, http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46113&agid=1145

I know what everything else does

Tar.Aldarion

it is a solid state hard drive, basically WAY faster than a normal hard drive, also has no moving parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

M00lers

jack888 wrote: »

Guys forgive the stupid question,

But what exactly is the purpose of this, http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46113&agid=1145

I know what everything else does

It's a solid state drive (like a hard drive with no moving parts) that you would install your OS onto as well as a few select programs/games that you might use regularly. Your system would be super snappy and responsive with it. I wouldn't leave it out of a system like you are planning.

Jonny7

jack888 wrote: »

Guys forgive the stupid question,

But what exactly is the purpose of this, http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46113&agid=1145

I know what everything else does

check out the ssd thread a few posts down

they are much faster than standard mechanical harddrives, but are more expensive

typically a 64 gb ssd will cost around 100 euros (1 terrabyte mechanical drive is about 50 euros)

However people are buying them in conjunction with the mechanical drives
Windows 7 plus common programs on the ssd (super fast startup and everything from firefox to itunes will open in a second)
Then larger files, games and films on the mechanical drive

Makes a great all round PC.

jack888

Guys, hope you can help with with a couple more questions about deconduos build.

Im prepared to splash out since I havent upgraded desktop for long time. I was thinking I may just get the i7 processor, to be as up to date as possible. http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41222&agid=1617
What you think, is it not worth it ?? its the next upgrade right?

Similarly I am open to other graphics cards, you think its worth paying more?. What is important to me is to have a quite graphics card because I will use tower for work as well as fun!.

I think I will just get the bigger Solid state disk, was thinking just going for this one, http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46110&agid=1145

One last question!, can I get any computer tower I choose or does it have to be compatible with motherboard or anything, I see some expensive ones, what do these bring extra?

Fluffy88

The 2600k is the upgrade of the 2500k but it's not going to show much of a performance increase unless your using it for things like video encoding. For the price the i5 is much better value and is pretty much on par with the i7.

I know nothing about graphics cards. I do know though that the 6970 is better than the 6950 but it's an extra €80.

In terms of the SSD it's up to you what you go for. Personally I would go with the larger one for the comfort of having plenty of space, but 64GB is enough to install Win7 with a lot of programs. Windows 7 will take up about 20GB so depending on what programs you need 64GB can hold the OS + programs with space.

On hwvs(and most other hardware sites) choosing a case that will fit your motherboard is pretty simple. Your motherboard is an ATX so on the left you choose,
PC-Components > Computer cases > w/o PSU > ATX
This will give you a listing of all their ATX motherboard compatible cases, you pick your fav.
There is alot more to consider when getting a case though. Airflow, Space, ease of build and cable management. In order of above.
To keep all your components nice & cool and to make them last as long as possible good airflow is very important. Depending on how heavily and how much you use your computer, obviously the more use the computer gets the hotter it will be, you need enough airflow to keep the computer cool, hotter computer needs more airflow. But in general you need a few different spots on the case for fans(front, back, top...). A bigger case will obviously allow for better airflow.
The more space in your case the better airflow you will have(sorry for repeating), you will have more space to add upgrades i.e. another GPU, extra HDD's. And finally the more space inside the case the easier it will be for you to build it.
Some cases come with some very handy tricks to help you build your computer. Things like Thumb screws instead of needing a screwdriver or having HDD bays that don't require you to screw the drives will all make it easier to build the computer.
And another important thing(again for airflow(it's very important)) is cable management. Some cases have some very clever things to help with cable management. Things like the ability to put some of the wires behind the motherboard tray to keep the out of the way really clean up your case.

Edit: I forgot to say that the Fractal R3 is one of the top cases on the market atm.

Monotype

The M4 128GB should be nice.

The 6950 is a pretty powerful card and you can unlock shaders to get close to 6970 speeds. I wouldn't bother with any more at the moment unless you are running multiple monitors. The prices increase very steeply from there.
If noise levels are very important, the twin frozr range are good. At over €40 dearer (also out of stock), I'm not sure that it justifies the cost. The fractal design R3 will keep much of the sound in anyway.

IMO the 2600K is not worth the marginal cost as pointed out by Fluffy.

jack888

Monotype wrote: »

The M4 128GB should be nice.

The 6950 is a pretty powerful card and you can unlock shaders to get close to 6970 speeds. I wouldn't bother with any more at the moment unless you are running multiple monitors. The prices increase very steeply from there.
If noise levels are very important, the twin frozr range are good. At over €40 dearer (also out of stock), I'm not sure that it justifies the cost. The fractal design R3 will keep much of the sound in anyway.

IMO the 2600K is not worth the marginal cost as pointed out by Fluffy.

Noise levels are important for me. Is the first sound card very noisy?, anyone with it know?

Will I also need to buy a sound card?

Fluffy88

You won't need a sound card, the motherboard has that built-in.

And I assume you meant is the graphics card noisy not the sound card. Hate when I type what I'm thinking about instead of what I meant :P but I couldn't tell ya.

jack888

Fluffy88 wrote: »

You won't need a sound card, the motherboard has that built-in.

And I assume you meant is the graphics card noisy not the sound card. Hate when I type what I'm thinking about instead of what I meant :P but I couldn't tell ya.

Yes, I meant graphics card!:D

Monotype

They're usually pretty quiet at idle, but can get noisy under stress. I haven't used one, so maybe someone else can help you. I've seen ones from the twin frozr range and they are very quiet.
It's a bit cheaper at scan - about €235 delivered. Out of stock there too though.

jack888

Okay,

Ive been reading up and parts recommended by decunduo all get great reviews and seem like good quality. Thanks for your advice.

Here is the spec Im gonna go for. Ill prob order this weekend, any extra thoughts are appreciated!. Only thing I am concerned about is if its too noisy. But reading about this tower, it seems to contain noise well.

Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €173.55
ASRock P67 Extreme4 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX €130.55
HIS HD 6950 Fan GDDR5 2048MB Native HDMI 2xDVI 2xMiniDP €204.99
XFX PRO750W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €75.21
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €54.98
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €44.09
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA €17.71
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B, CPU-Kühler, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.99
Crucial M4 128GB SSD - http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46110&agid=1145



I do also need a wireless card, any recommendations.

Monotype

That's a powerful PSU - are you adding a second card? The high end enermax PSUs are very quiet but are about €100 for a 500-600W.

jack888

Monotype wrote: »

That's a powerful PSU - are you adding a second card? The high end enermax PSUs are very quiet but are about €100 for a 500-600W.

Is it more than I need?, Im prepared to pay more for quiet. Was only planning on one graphics card for now.

deconduo

jack888 wrote: »

Is it more than I need?, Im prepared to pay more for quiet. Was only planning on one graphics card for now.

Its more than you need for a single card, but if you want to get a second 6950 to crossfire you'll need it.

It will never be on more than half load so it should be practically silent.

jack888

deconduo wrote: »

Its more than you need for a single card, but if you want to get a second 6950 to crossfire you'll need it.

It will never be on more than half load so it should be practically silent.

Oh,

Is there any negatives to having a power supply that provides more power then needed?

Fluffy88

PSU's are most efficient when operating at 40-60% so having a PSU that is more than you need will save money on electricity.

Tar.Aldarion

At low loads the energy efficiency of a psu drops a lot so you waste money.

jack888

Couple of more questions!!,

Does all the equipment come with German instructions, since its a German site, can this cause me problems.

Also what about the power supply, is there difference between Irish and German power:?

jack888

Ok, this hardwareversand.de site is a joke. I cant even create an account!>

Monotype

You can download manuals on the manufacturer's website but most items should come with booklets containing several languages.

PseudoFamous

jack888 wrote: »

Ok, this hardwareversand.de site is a joke. I cant even create an account!>

Any particular reason why?

jack888

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Any particular reason why?

Damn site comes up half in German even when I click English and it wont accept my address, keeps on saying invalid characters.

Ive signed up for Dabs, Komplett, amazon, never had any trouble. ARRRGGGG

Fluffy88

Yeah they don't take some characters like á, just drop things like that and you should have no issue.

jack888

Fluffy88 wrote: »

Yeah they don't take some characters like á, just drop things like that and you should have no issue.

Ive finally got in, but only way I could do it is to leave out my County?

Fluffy88

They don't ask for a County :P

Completely not related, but love how active this forum is right now

jack888

HIS HD 6950 Fan GDDR5 2048MB Native HDMI 2xDVI 2xMiniDP seems to be gone from the webpage?

Is model upgraded?

marco_polo

Fluffy88 wrote: »

PSU's are most efficient when operating at 40-60% so having a PSU that is more than you need will save money on electricity.

That is the sweet spot alright but a good 80+ PSU should be within a few percentage points of its peak effecency (4-5%) at any load above about 20%

So using a 600W PSU where a 400-450W on would be optimal is fairly ok, but a 1200W would be a different story entirely

jack888

Sorry to keep asking questions but could someone recommend a different power supply and graphic card from my build since the ones suggested dont seem to be in stock

Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €173.55
ASRock P67 Extreme4 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX €130.55
HIS HD 6950 Fan GDDR5 2048MB Native HDMI 2xDVI 2xMiniDP €204.99
XFX PRO750W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €75.21
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €54.98
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €44.09
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA €17.71
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B, CPU-Kühler, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.99
Crucial M4 128GB SSD - http://www1.hardwareversand.de/artic...6110&agid=1145


Also, can I just pay for these with paypal?, I dont want to be using my bank details?
Also, is there any electrical issues with using parts supplied from germany!!>

THANKS

Monotype

http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38017
or the 800W amazon for €10 cheaper. If you think that you won't do crossfire, you can get a lower rated one.

I think the powercolor 6950 was one of the modable ones.
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41890

The sapphire one has dirt 3 with it.
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=48530


There'll be no electrical issues. The only thing might be that you get a German plug, so you will need one of those ones that you find in all PCs to plug in. I don't know if HWV supply you with adapters because nobody answered me any time I asked.

Apparently you can use paypal, but get charged an extra 3% although there have been reports a few times that people couldn't use it.

If you are uncomfortable with it, you could try scan.co.uk - their prices are usually pretty good and not far from HWV's, depending on what you are buying.

jack888

I dont really understand...

Are all these 6950 cards the same?, or is there differences?

PseudoFamous

jack888 wrote: »

Are all these 6950 cards the same?, or is there differences?

In the actual GPU, no, there is no difference. Only differences are cosmetic and the cooling provided.

hare05

PseudoFamous wrote: »

In the actual GPU, no, there is no difference. Only differences are cosmetic and the cooling provided.

Pretty much this.

There may also be cases where the manufacturer provides the card under warranty with an overclock above it's base ratings but it's generally a small upgrade for more money.

General rule of thumb with graphics cards is to first decide on a model (ATI / Nvidia) and then look for the best cooler (All other manufacturer names). The model can usually be chosen easily as the tech specs give a decent idea of how each card performs, and they're all clearly designated.

Once you have to decide on the version of that card you want, Boards and Bit-tech.net are your friends. A double slot card is not always better than a single slot card, look for coolers with good airflow and low dB ratings if given, and if an average dB rating is given, whether in any official specs or on review sites, add 10 to it for giggles.

I've seen some fans rated at 16dB, where background ambient noise of nothing happening is generally accepted as 20dB. Madness.

jack888

hare05 wrote: »

Pretty much this.

There may also be cases where the manufacturer provides the card under warranty with an overclock above it's base ratings but it's generally a small upgrade for more money.

General rule of thumb with graphics cards is to first decide on a model (ATI / Nvidia) and then look for the best cooler (All other manufacturer names). The model can usually be chosen easily as the tech specs give a decent idea of how each card performs, and they're all clearly designated.

Once you have to decide on the version of that card you want, Boards and Bit-tech.net are your friends. A double slot card is not always better than a single slot card, look for coolers with good airflow and low dB ratings if given, and if an average dB rating is given, whether in any official specs or on review sites, add 10 to it for giggles.

I've seen some fans rated at 16dB, where background ambient noise of nothing happening is generally accepted as 20dB. Madness.

What?

So could anyone point me in the direction of a good cooling 6950