Would you get into a relationship with a girl who had pro-abortion views?

HellFireClub

Hope this can be rationally discussed here. I'm a bit of a family man and I have to say I couldn't start a relationship with a girl who had open ended views on abortion.

I acknowledge the right of a woman to have an abortion, I disagree with the act of abortion, but my way of dealing with this in terms of it ever having an affect on me, is to ensure that I'm in a relationship with a girl who shares my views on abortion, as someone who wants to have kids.

That's not to say that if some rare medical issue emerged in the future where my wifes health was at risk, I might support her if she made a decision to have an abortion, but as for, "I want to be able to have an abortion for any reason or for no particular reason at all", I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who harbours these views...

My mates seen to have the same view, in that we are all in our late 20's/early 30's and would like to have families, some already have.

parker kent

The long and short answers from me will be yes.

Jagle

i would never get into a relationship with a girl who was against abortion

HellFireClub

Jagle wrote: »

i would never get into a relationship with a girl who was against abortion

But would you get into a relationship with a girl who was pro abortion, and I mean advocating abortion on demand???

Kinetic^

HellFireClub wrote: »

But would you get into a relationship with a girl who was pro abortion, and I mean advocating abortion on demand???

As long as it didn't fester in to an obsession or start to affect the relationship then it wouldn't bother me either way.

Zombienosh

Yes.

HellFireClub

Kinetic^ wrote: »

As long as it didn't fester in to an obsession or start to affect the relationship then it wouldn't bother me either way.

But say if you were seeing each other a few months and it emerged that if she got pregnant, that she would automatically procure an abortion. There would be no discussion about this or you might not even be told about it, it would just happen...

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

But say if you were seeing each other a few months and it emerged that if she got pregnant, that she would automatically procure an abortion. There would be no discussion about this or you might not even be told about it, it would just happen...

That is a very specific situation and it is very different than somebody just being pro-choice.

Im Only 71Kg

no. i personally wouldn't go out with someone who would willingly terminate my child.

qz

Totally, having at kid at my age would fcuk things up for me royally. I assume the issue of abortion weighs less and less as you gain more years under your belt and both partners are actually ready to start a family and intentionally try to do so.

SugarHigh

HellFireClub wrote: »

Kinetic^ wrote: »

As long as it didn't fester in to an obsession or start to affect the relationship then it wouldn't bother me either way.

But say if you were seeing each other a few months and it emerged that if she got pregnant, that she would automatically procure an abortion. There would be no discussion about this or you might not even be told about it, it would just happen...

I'd rather she get an abortion than to have to support a kid neither of us wanted. Seriously I know it makes me sound like a dick to bring money into but if you have a kid that's basically €200,000 on something you don't want.

Jagle

HellFireClub wrote: »

But say if you were seeing each other a few months and it emerged that if she got pregnant, that she would automatically procure an abortion. There would be no discussion about this or you might not even be told about it, it would just happen...

cheaper then child support

in all seriousness i cant believe anyone in a loving healthy relationship regardless of their beliefs would run off to get an abortion asap.

but i fully support a change in laws, i know a girl who got pregnant(not by my hand) and as stressful and as difficult a time as it was, selling most of per possessions to be able to afford a trip to england was not something that she needs on top of everything, because a couple of people here listened to a church that destoryed generations

HellFireClub

qz wrote: »

Totally, having at kid at my age would fcuk things up for me royally. I assume the issue of abortion weighs less and less as you gain more years under your belt and both partners are actually ready to start a family and intentionally try to do so.

But does a girl who believes in her colllege years, "It's my body my choice, I'll do whatever the I want so butt out of it", really mellow out as she gets a bit older???

ThisRegard

to ensure that I'm in a relationship with a girl who shares my views on abortion, as someone who wants to have kids.

Having a family and being pro choice aren't mutually exclusive you know.

HellFireClub

parker kent wrote: »

That is a very specific situation and it is very different than somebody just being pro-choice.

How is it?

HellFireClub

ThisRegard wrote: »

Having a family and being pro choice aren't mutually exclusive you know.

Maybe not, but say your partner deciding that she is having an abortion, (as in she indicates that she is going to be pro-choice in relation to your future family), how can you say that such a scenario is independent of having a family?

Snowie

HellFireClub wrote: »

Hope this can be rationally discussed here. I'm a bit of a family man and I have to say I couldn't start a relationship with a girl who had open ended views on abortion.

I acknowledge the right of a woman to have an abortion, I disagree with the act of abortion, but my way of dealing with this in terms of it ever having an affect on me, is to ensure that I'm in a relationship with a girl who shares my views on abortion, as someone who wants to have kids.

That's not to say that if some rare medical issue emerged in the future where my wifes health was at risk, I might support her if she made a decision to have an abortion, but as for, "I want to be able to have an abortion for any reason or for no particular reason at all", I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who harbours these views...

My mates seen to have the same view, in that we are all in our late 20's/early 30's and would like to have families, some already have.

ok first off im an uncle (weird saying it and hes the most awesome little grommet to ever hit our fammilly )

But while there is always a struggle with children...

but if some one doesnt want to have a baby so be it its not up to you to push your views onto a girl just because you dont agree...

How does it effect you any way if some girl has an abortion and who your likely never to come into contact with....

People have the right to live there life the way they want to...

i couldnt give a toss what her views are on abortion hardly the pressing matter of the world and hardly a pressing matter to decide weather you enter a reletionship with for that matter either

also you dont have to deal with the pain of giving birth

the woman does think theyd have an idea weather they want to have kids or not and more of right to decide all you do is diliver a seed,..

sure nearly any man can do that!

qz

HellFireClub wrote: »

But does a girl who believes in her colllege years, "It's my body my choice, I'll do whatever the I want so butt out of it", really mellow out as she gets a bit older???

ThisRegard wrote: »

Having a family and being pro choice aren't mutually exclusive you know.

^This. I can only assume that the majority of women would like to settle down with a husband and kids at some stage, and the issue of abortion would not crop up if a women is impregnated by her husband and they both want to start a family.

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

How is it?

How do you not see that it is a very specific situation? You are referring to a hypothetical situation where somebody has an abortion without any discussion. That is clearly not the case in all situations.

Not everybody who is pro-choice will do that without discussion (I imagine the amount of people who will do exactly as you say in that example is extremely low). Being pro-choice is not the same as automatically terminating a pregnancy without discussion. The first is just being open to choice, the latter is what one specific person decided to do.

Kinski

Wouldn't bother me, since it reflects my own views - but it is preferable to describe the position as being pro-choice than pro-abortion. Though, I wouldn't be keen on someone who was fanatical about the issue, not matter which position they adopted.

Jagle wrote: »

i know a girl who got pregnant(not by my hand)

Sex Ed 101: It's not actually the man's hand that does it...:pac:

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

Maybe not, but say your partner deciding that she is having an abortion, (as in she indicates that she is going to be pro-choice in relation to your future family), how can you say that such a scenario is independent of having a family?

Again, that is a very specific situation. Somebody having an attitude that allows for a choice to be made is not the same as an attitude that all pregnancies must be terminated. Not all women who are pro-choice will have abortions. It entirely depends on the scenario at any given time. It is not a black and white case.

HellFireClub

qz wrote: »

^This. I can only assume that the majority of women would like to settle down with a husband and kids at some stage, and the issue of abortion would not crop up if a women is impregnated by her husband and they both want to start a family.

I genuinely don't get this... I've a load of lads/mates who are all dying to be family men, and most are with girls who are probably annoyed that they are not already married with kids, etc. Some already have kids, some are single but none are rampantly advocating abortion on demand.

But then it seems to me more and more a trait that women are demanding a right to abortion in Ireland, not for medical reasons, not for health reasons, but for any reason, or no particular reason at all.

I can't see how these women can end up in normal relationships, unless it is with men who do not want to have children, and I don't know any lads who fall into this category.

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

But then it seems to me more and more a trait that women are demanding a right to abortion in Ireland, not for medical reasons, not for health reasons, but for any reason, or no particular reason at all.

I can't see how these women can end up in normal relationships, unless it is with men who do not want to have children, and I don't know any lads who fall into this category.

You do understand that somebody who thinks Ireland should be pro-choice is not the same as somebody who will have an abortion any time they get pregnant? Just because they are pro-choice does not mean they will ever consider an abortion for themselves.

qz

Well, being 22 and about to start on a very challenging and demanding career, I certainly don't want kids now. If I had a girlfriend who was in and around the same age as me and I got her pregnant, I would totally want her to be pro-choice about it and consider an abortion.

But, at 32 or 35, once I get my priorities right re: work and finances and generally enjoying my youth, I would very much like to have children with a partner, and I would hope that that partner would deliver my sprogs! Tricky discussion whatever position you take.

HellFireClub

parker kent wrote: »

How do you not see that it is a very specific situation? You are referring to a hypothetical situation where somebody has an abortion without any discussion. That is clearly not the case in all situations.

Not everybody who is pro-choice will do that without discussion (I imagine the amount of people who will do exactly as you say in that example is extremely low). Being pro-choice is not the same as automatically terminating a pregnancy without discussion. The first is just being open to choice, the latter is what one specific person decided to do.

It seems to me thought that this is what a large number of Irish women are now demanding. Pro choice to my mind is tolerating whatever decision that another person might wish to come to regarding a pregnancy.

But a lot of women seem to be advocating this view that their body is their own (which I fully accept), and they can do with it what they wish (which I fully accept), my only point though is, if you were in a relationship and wanted to have kids, could you stay in a relationship if this was the mindset that was emerging in relation to abortion???

SWK

Clearly, HellFireClub, you equate being pro-choice with being pro-abortion. Most people who are pro-choice accept that abortions, in most situations, are regrettable. Anyone who get's one with a sense of glee and without any pause is either really stupid or mentally deranged. If your in a stable relationship with a woman and she gets pregnant and proceeds to get an abortion, without even considering your opinion, I'd be inclined to think that either she has a few screws loose or the relationship was in the sh1t.

G86

HellFireClub wrote: »

But then it seems to me more and more a trait that women are demanding a right to abortion in Ireland, not for medical reasons, not for health reasons, but for any reason, or no particular reason at all.

How do you know what their reasons are?? How do you know there's 'no particular reason at all'? The fact is - you don't.

HellFireClub wrote: »

I can't see how these women can end up in normal relationships, unless it is with men who do not want to have children, and I don't know any lads who fall into this category.

Not all women who are pro-choice and advocate abortion will decide to have an abortion themselves, they are simply advocating a womans right to choose.

HellFireClub

parker kent wrote: »

You do understand that somebody who thinks Ireland should be pro-choice is not the same as somebody who will have an abortion any time they get pregnant? Just because they are pro-choice does not mean they will ever consider an abortion for themselves.

I'm pro choice myself, do what you want with yourself says I. However I could not entertain a relationship with a girl who advocates abortion on demand. That's the thead topic, not pro-choice, but could you do a relationship with someone who believes in abortion as an absolute right, for them, even though they are in a relationship with you and you are the father if a pregnancy arose.

I'm asking could you trust your partner, given that views have been expressed that could result in your unborn child being aborted??? Or even if such views have been expressed, could you trust your partner to put those absolute views aside so that a discussion might be able to take place with you about what SHE should do???

HellFireClub

SWK wrote: »

Clearly, HellFireClub, you equate being pro-choice with being pro-abortion.

Could you quote me where I said that??? :rolleyes: As I said I'm pro choice myself...

Kinetic^

Just because someone has pro abortion views does not equate to her jumping on a plane once she gets pregnant.

G86

HellFireClub wrote: »

As I said I'm pro choice myself...

Nothing you have said indicates that. It appears to me, that you're pro-choice as long as it doesn't interfere with your own personal relationships. So you're basically saying any woman has the right to choose, apart from your partner.

That's not pro-choice.

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

It seems to me thought that this is what a large number of Irish women are now demanding. Pro choice to my mind is tolerating whatever decision that another person might wish to come to regarding a pregnancy.

But a lot of women seem to be advocating this view that their body is their own (which I fully accept), and they can do with it what they wish (which I fully accept), my only point though is, if you were in a relationship and wanted to have kids, could you stay in a relationship if this was the mindset that was emerging in relation to abortion???

Look there simply are not large amounts of the female population who will have abortions without consulting partners. You don't seem to understand that somebody can be pro-choice yet want to have a family.

I could be in a relationship with a woman who was pro-choice. It wouldn't even give me a moments thought that she was pro-choice. In fact, I imagine most people I'd ever be interested in would be pro-choice.

Wibbs

Pro choice =/= pro abortion. It's a common sleight of hand deceit of some in the pro life movement. I know men and women who would be personally very anti abortion for themselves who would be also be very pro choice for others.

OK OP and others who may agree, begging your indulgence further, answer me this if you would? Would you get into a relationship with a woman with pro hormonal contraception views? Would you consider new life starting at conception? If the answer to both is yes, then that answer is set at logical and moral odds. The pill(and others) doesn't just prevent conception, it can also prevent implantation. If life starts at conception and the contraceptive works to prevent implantation, you've been party to a very early stage "termination". If one agrees with the morning after pill this is even less of a grey area. Would you get into a relationship with a woman that has used the MAP in her past? This stuff isn't so black and white.

As for me? I'd be broadly pro choice, but with a time limit ceiling and the fathers input. I'm not too content that I as the potential father have no say or rights in the matter, but if the potential mother decides to keep the pregnancy I'm suddenly personally, financially and emotionally responsible for that choice? A choice I may not get to have input on? No thanks.

HellFireClub

G86 wrote: »

How do you know what their reasons are?? How do you know there's 'no particular reason at all'? The fact is - you don't.

OK, you're seeing a girl 8 months, one night out in the company of friends, the topic of abortion comes up and you discover that your girlfriend believes that it is her right to have an abortion at any time, for any reason, without reference to you as a potential father.

We all know that this is the absolute right of any woman.

Now there is no pregnancy yet, but this view above has been stated.

All I'm asking is, could you stay in a relationship with someone who has such a casual view of abortion??? Would you be happy enough going along with the relationship in the knowledge that if your girlfriend gets pregnant, that you could be the last to know about it, or that she could make a decision to terminate without even telling you???

I'm not talking about a pregnancy here, I'm asking about an opinion being expressed here, by a girl who happened to have a very casual view on abortion, in the context of a guy being in a relationship with this girl...

Hermione*

ThisRegard wrote: »

Having a family and being pro choice aren't mutually exclusive you know.

Beat me to it!

HellFireClub wrote: »

Maybe not, but say your partner deciding that she is having an abortion, (as in she indicates that she is going to be pro-choice in relation to your future family), how can you say that such a scenario is independent of having a family?

You don't sound very pro-choice, OP. Tell me, would you have a relationship with a girl who was pro-choice?

HellFireClub

G86 wrote: »

Nothing you have said indicates that. It appears to me, that you're pro-choice as long as it doesn't interfere with your own personal relationships. So you're basically saying any woman has the right to choose, apart from your partner.

That's not pro-choice.

No, I'm saying that pro-choice, logically extends to my right to choose a partner who puts some value on life as opposed to someone who will choose to have an abortion as a casual solution to something that they see as a problem.

I have no interest in being with a woman who could, without any reference to anyone or anything but herself, procure an abortion, if she was in a relationship with me. But being pro-choice, this is her absolute right. I just think it is also my right to not want to be in a relationship with such a person.

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

All I'm asking is, could you stay in a relationship with someone who has such a casual view of abortion??? Would you be happy enough going along with the relationship in the knowledge that if your girlfriend gets pregnant, that you could be the last to know about it, or that she could make a decision to terminate without even telling you??

Your question should be "Would you get into a relationship with this specific girl?"

G86

HellFireClub wrote: »

No, I'm saying that pro-choice, logically extends to my right to choose a partner who puts some value on life as opposed to someone who will choose to have an abortion as a casual solution to something that they see as a problem.

I have no interest in being with a woman who could, without any reference to anyone or anything but herself, procure an abortion, if she was in a relationship with me. But being pro-choice, this is her absolute right. I just think it is also my right to not want to be in a relationship with such a person.

Do me a favour and read through your posts.

You're a barrel of contradictions.

HellFireClub

Hermione* wrote: »

Beat me to it!You don't sound very pro-choice, OP. Tell me, would you have a relationship with a girl who was pro-choice?

So pro-choice now means that if your own wife or long term partner comes home and tells you that your child was aborted last weekend, that you have to be completely cool with that, as you are "pro-choice"???

Would I sit in a committed relationship, being a man who wants to have a family, where a girl says she advocates abortion on demand and would consider using a service if she got pregnant??? Not a hope.

Why would I waste my time in a relationship where I'd be thinking about starting a family, only for my partner to come in some day, sit me down and tell me she just had an abortion???

Do I not have the right to choose too???

HellFireClub

parker kent wrote: »

Your question should be "Would you get into a relationship with this specific girl?"

Whatever way you want to bundle it up, say you were together a day, a week, a month, a year, whatever the case may be, before this conversation came up. Clearly you don't go around asking people to fill in a questionaire about their opinions on these kind of things before you start dating them or pursue a relationship with them...

G86

HellFireClub wrote: »

So pro-choice now means that if your own wife or long term partner comes home and tells you that your child was aborted last weekend, that you have to be completely cool with that, as you are "pro-choice"???

Would I sit in a committed relationship, being a man who wants to have a family, where a girl says she advocates abortion on demand and would consider using a service if she got pregnant??? Not a hope.

Why would I waste my time in a relationship where I'd be thinking about starting a family, only for my partner to come in some day, sit me down and tell me she just had an abortion???

Do I not have the right to choose too???

Pro-choice means your wife has the right to make her own decision on abortion, whether it's relative to her own situation or others. Whether she would discuss it with you, should the situation arise, is a completely different matter and is specific to your own relationship.

You don't seem to be getting the point that Pro-choice does not mean those women are all going to have abortions if they get pregnant. And it does not mean that they don't want children. It simply means that they want the right to have a CHOICE.

parker kent

HellFireClub wrote: »

So pro-choice now means that if your own wife or long term partner comes home and tells you that your child was aborted last weekend, that you have to be completely cool with that, as you are "pro-choice"???

Where exactly are you getting that being pro-choice means that? Honestly where exactly has anybody ever said that what you have just said is being pro-choice. I doubt there is a person alive who would be "cool" in that situation. Ridiculous examples like that have no place in genuine discussions.

SugarHigh

G86 wrote: »

HellFireClub wrote: »

As I said I'm pro choice myself...

Nothing you have said indicates that. It appears to me, that you're pro-choice as long as it doesn't interfere with your own personal relationships. So you're basically saying any woman has the right to choose, apart from your partner.

That's not pro-choice.

That's not what he said. You can be pro-choice but not want to date someone who would have an abortion. They don't conflict at all. Just like has already been said the girl could also be prochoice and would never consider an abortion. She has the choice but he'd only date someone who would make the choice of not having the abortion

SugarHigh

G86 wrote: »

HellFireClub wrote: »

No, I'm saying that pro-choice, logically extends to my right to choose a partner who puts some value on life as opposed to someone who will choose to have an abortion as a casual solution to something that they see as a problem.

I have no interest in being with a woman who could, without any reference to anyone or anything but herself, procure an abortion, if she was in a relationship with me. But being pro-choice, this is her absolute right. I just think it is also my right to not want to be in a relationship with such a person.

Do me a favour and read through your posts.

You're a barrel of contradictions.

It's really not a contradiction to have 2 people who are pro choice but would never have an abortion. That's basically what he wants for himself.

HellFireClub

G86 wrote: »

Pro-choice means your wife has the right to make her own decision on abortion, whether it's relative to her own situation or others. Whether she would discuss it with you, should the situation arise, is a completely different matter and is specific to your own relationship.

You don't seem to be getting the point that Pro-choice does not mean those women are all going to have abortions if they get pregnant. And it does not mean that they don't want children. It simply means that they want the right to have a CHOICE.

WHERE DID I SAY THAT ALL WOMEN WHO ARE PRO CHOICE WILL WANT TO HAVE ABORTIONS THEMSELVES???

krudler

HellFireClub wrote: »

WHERE DID I SAY THAT ALL WOMEN WHO ARE PRO CHOICE WILL WANT TO HAVE ABORTIONS THEMSELVES???

so wheres the issue then? smells like you came in here looking to prove your "no man will want a woman who is pro-abortion" and its blown up in your face.

Hermione*

HellFireClub wrote: »

No, I'm saying that pro-choice, logically extends to my right to choose a partner who puts some value on life as opposed to someone who will choose to have an abortion as a casual solution to something that they see as a problem.

That's not what's generally meant by pro-choice. Pro-choice is generally understood to mean that a liberalisation of the abortion laws is required.

HellFireClub wrote: »

I have no interest in being with a woman who could, without any reference to anyone or anything but herself, procure an abortion, if she was in a relationship with me. But being pro-choice, this is her absolute right. I just think it is also my right to not want to be in a relationship with such a person.

Y'know, you seem to have a very poor opinion of people who are pro-choice. Most pro-choice women wouldn't do this. Many pro-choice people don't ever want to have an abortion themselves - they merely support the availability for other people. And whether you're pro or anti choice, the example you keep using is a pretty poor way to behave.

HellFireClub wrote: »

So pro-choice now means that if your own wife or long term partner comes home and tells you that your child was aborted last weekend, that you have to be completely cool with that, as you are "pro-choice"???

Would I sit in a committed relationship, being a man who wants to have a family, where a girl says she advocates abortion on demand and would consider using a service if she got pregnant??? Not a hope.

Why would I waste my time in a relationship where I'd be thinking about starting a family, only for my partner to come in some day, sit me down and tell me she just had an abortion???Do I not have the right to choose too???

While you failed to answer my question, the only conclusion I can draw is no, you wouldn't.

Hermione*

HellFireClub wrote: »

WHERE DID I SAY THAT ALL WOMEN WHO ARE PRO CHOICE WILL WANT TO HAVE ABORTIONS THEMSELVES???

Eh, just to remind you, here:

HellFireClub wrote: »

I have no interest in being with a woman who could, without any reference to anyone or anything but herself, procure an abortion, if she was in a relationship with me. But being pro-choice, this is her absolute right. I just think it is also my right to not want to be in a relationship with such a person.

NomdePlume

Well, HellFireClub, as a woman who is pro-choice and would support the availability of abortion-on-demand in Ireland, I can tell you I will be roaring crying into my Cheerios at this revelation that The Lads in your social circle will not be taking me out to the pictures.












*roars crying into cheerios*

tallaghtmick

HellFireClub wrote: »

But would you get into a relationship with a girl who was pro abortion, and I mean advocating abortion on demand???

if shes paying then yeh

SugarHigh

I believe people should have the choice to eat meat however I would not date someone who chooses to do so.

Those two statements do not contradict each other and that's basically his position on abortion.