Segregation on Irish Rail Trains?

foggy_lad

A thought struck me recently(without doing too much damage) that Irish Rail appear to be practicing a form of segregation at certain stations including Cork Kent station and Galway station and also

At these stations I have seen elderly people who were quite feeble with free travel purple tickets being directed towards the last carriage of a long 6 car train even though there are hundreds of free and unreserved seats further up the train. I have heard staff telling these people they are not allowed travel in the carriages in the train that you can reserve a seat in as "they are all reserved for online reservations".

I am almost 100% sure you can sit in any free unreserved seat on any train regardless of having free travel or not and that I or anyone without a reservation could sit at the front or 2nd carriage as long as I did not sit on a seat that had someone's name above it. You can also sit on any seat with "reserved from xxxxxx" where the seat is reserved from a particular station on the line as long as you give up the seat to the person who has reserved it when they board the train.

What are Irish rail playing at? This is not the deep south of America although Irish rail may still be operating in the 1950's, surely segregation is illegal on trains in Eire?

I have also seen someone being told they must show photo id when requested to verify their entitlement to free travel by a ticket clerk and an RPU inspector, the person argued there was no legal obligation to carry id and that they only had a right to ask for a sample of the persons signature but they then threatened to keep the persons pass leaving them stranded hundred of miles from home, there should be more education on the operation of the free travel scheme for these nazis before they are put into customer facing roles!

mikemac

Maybe there have been cases of elderly people using reserved seats and how exactly do you tell an elderly person to shift it?

You'd look a right **** if you did this. And the staff don't want to get involved in this either

goingnowhere

There is a legal obligation to have photo ID on a DSP pass if that pass holder has an address in the following city areas

Dublin
Galway
Waterford
Limerick
Cork

A docket with the pass provides for a free ID at the bus station in those cities.

People living in Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway or Waterford must exchange the free travel pass for a photo pass at the CIE office in the city - see 'Where to apply' below.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

No ID -> pass is not valid

All passengers without a reserved ticket sit in an unreserved coach, a DSP pass holder can sit in the reserved seats if they hold a reservation just like the rest of us

munchkin_utd

its understandable.

you know that the pensioner may very easily sit in a reserved seat. This may cause issues then later with them either refusing to move OR trying to travel the length of the train at a snails pace looking for a seat.

Really is best to direct them to the area which has unreserved seating.
If I were a full fare passenger I'd expect to also be directed to those carraiges to be honest.

EDIT: the "not allowed to travel in reserved coaches" is indeed somewhat false BUT with a queue of people waiting to board a train do you want the ticket checker to explain the ins and outs of the reservation system for 5 minutes to every pensioner looking to board. Best keep it simple and send them to where theres full carraiges of "empty" seats.

foggy_lad

mikemac wrote: »

Maybe there have been cases of elderly people using reserved seats and how exactly do you tell an elderly person to shift it?

You'd look a right **** if you did this. And the staff don't want to get involved in this either

Staff are involved as it is them telling people with free travel they are only allowed travel in the carriages that can't be reserved namely the last two on most trains especially on Dublin to cork and Dublin to Belfast. It looks very much like this is policy for some station managers as I have not seen such discrimination in all stations.

The practice also happens in Heuston station for the cork train afaik.

mikemac

The day it's a packed train and a full fare passenger tells a pensioner shift of their reserved seat will have Joe Duffy show in meltdown the next day. :eek:

Young pups and Irish rail moving our elderly and making them stand and search for a seat, what kind of nation are we??

If you direct people to the unreserved carraiges it solves all problems.
Yes the staff could explain the entire reservation system to everyone at the gates but just directing them is quicker.

Ok, they shouldn't be told they can only use certain carraiges, it's not correct.
But how does the man who gets on at Thurles move a pensioner from his seat without getting dirty looks from everyone? Can't be done.
And maybe foggy_lad you'd be here complaining if you saw such a thing

I'm young, able bodied but definitly not fit! :pac:
If I have no reservation I've zero issue with being directed to a carraige for passengers without reservations

foggy_lad

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is a legal obligation to have photo ID on a DSP pass if that pass holder has an address in the following city areas

Dublin
Galway
Waterford
Limerick
Cork

A docket with the pass provides for a free ID at the bus station in those cities.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

No ID -> pass is not valid

All passengers without a reserved ticket sit in an unreserved coach, a DSP pass holder can sit in the reserved seats if they hold a reservation just like the rest of us

But the person did not live in those places so was not obliged to possess a "photo pass" with their free travel pass!

On the other point, no coaches are reserved! Some coaches do have seats which may or may not have been reserved by passengers but those seats which have not been reserved should be open to any other passenger to use! If you have a reservatio your seat will be in one of the middle coaches usually c,d and e but there's is no exclusion on others without reservations from taking unreserved seats in these carriages!

munchkin_utd wrote: »

its understandable.

you know that the pensioner may very easily sit in a reserved seat. This may cause issues then later with them either refusing to move OR trying to travel the length of the train at a snails pace looking for a seat.

Really is best to direct them to the area which has unreserved seating.
If I were a full fare passenger I'd expect to also be directed to those carraiges to be honest.

EDIT: the "not allowed to travel in reserved coaches" is indeed somewhat false BUT with a queue of people waiting to board a train do you want the ticket checker to explain the ins and outs of the reservation system for 5 minutes to every pensioner looking to board. Best keep it simple and send them to where theres full carraiges of "empty" seats.

Again there are NO RESERVED COACHES! And I have no problem with asking some elderly person to move from a reserved seat or walking behind some elderly person or even helping them with a bag or case if I see them struggling, I don't expect anything from it as I could easily be in the same boat later in life.

foggy_lad

mikemac wrote: »

The day it's a packed train and a full fare passenger tells a pensioner shift of their reserved seat will have Joe Duffy show in meltdown the next day. :eek:

Young pups and Irish rail moving our elderly and making them stand and search for a seat, what kind of nation are we??

If you direct people to the unreserved carraiges it solves all problems.
Yes the staff could explain the entire reservation system to everyone at the gates but just directing them is quicker.

Ok, they shouldn't be told they can only use certain carraiges, it's not correct.
But how does the man who gets on at Thurles move a pensioner from his seat without getting dirty looks from everyone? Can't be done.
And maybe foggy_lad you'd be here complaining if you saw such a thing

I'm young, able bodied but definitly not fit! :pac:
If I have no reservation I've zero issue with being directed to a carraige for passengers without reservations

I would say then have the carriages with no reservations at the front of the train nearest the exits and entrances instead of at the very end of the train. And nobody will be onto Joe Duffy as the rules about seat reservations are there for all to see much like thedrupes on the free travel scheme and the checks the inspectors and staff have available. In the case I saw they had no right to insist on any form of identifacation from the person but could insist on them providing a sample of their signature to compare with the signiture on their pass!

schemingbohemia

CIE can't win with you foggy lad, you're complaining on other posts about IE not having a person on board the train enforcing the reservations system and now in this thread where the staff are doing a workaround by getting passengers who they know do not have a reserved seat to sit in carriages where they know there are no reserved seats you have a pop at them in the name of equality.

corktina

as far as Dublin or any other terminal is concerned, could they not just have two queues and let reservation holders on first? IE need to address reservations as its a joke. One of my daughters commentes what do you do if your reserved seat is occupied by a member of a family party? make them move and then sit next to their relatives for two hours or so?

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

CIE can't win with you foggy lad, you're complaining on other posts about IE not having a person on board the train enforcing the reservations system and now in this thread where the staff are doing a workaround by getting passengers who they know do not have a reserved seat to sit in carriages where they know there are no reserved seats you have a pop at them in the name of equality.

But you can't just discommode passengers and treat them as an unofficial third class passenger because they have free travel. Irish rail should be education people about the reserved seats at the stations and then passengers would know to check a seat before they sit in it, also have a Person on board when a train is filling up to make sure people are complying with the rules. It is not rocket science just providing a service!

Anyway this is not so much about the whole reservation system but about Irish rail staff and company appearing to operate a form of segregation on some services contrary to their own rules and conditions of travel. There are also issues with Irish rail staff either on their own or under instruction from management insisting on identification from people where they are only allowed ask for a sample of a pass holders signature! And threatening sometimes people with special needs with withholding their pass if they do not have this identification! Nazis is the only way to properly describe such actions!

mikemac

3rd class? Deep South? Nazi's?
Were the staff in white hoods and gowns at the gates? Chill foggy_lad

I thought there were staff checking the reservations on the train, they used to wear T-shirts. Are they gone? They were there where the reservation system launched. It's a good summer job for a student.

To check an ID with a signature is an outdated joke and I hope this new Leap system will sort that.
If that's some archaic rule that a person on the gates can't ask for photo ID at certain locations and only ask for a signature it's so easy to update with bylaws and inform Department of Social Protection.
Where's Leo V these days?

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would say then have the carriages with no reservations at the front of the train nearest the exits and entrances instead of at the very end of the train.

What difference does it make? The last carraige in Heuston is the first carraige when it gets to Galway. And vice versa

Hilly Bill

Nazis? bit over the top there foggy.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Nazis? bit over the top there foggy.

Not when they are deliberately overstepping their authority and threatening people who for whatever reason Posess a free travel pass, it is not their job to police the entitlement to free travel but to ensure that those who present free travel passes are doing so in accordance with the conditions so if you live in Dublin cork limerick etc you must have The photopass section of the pass, also you are obliged to give a sample of your signature if asked but do not have to provide photo or other id to travel using a free travel pass.

mikemac

What's your issue with fascism?

Mussolini got the trains to run on time

Losty Dublin

The only segregation that is going on here is the segregating of people who didn't reserve seats from those who did; if anything it's doing them a favour in pointing them to free seats on the train and as pointed out, it's showing them to be helping keep booked seats free from, what was that word you used to describe them the other day?;)

If, however, you think that this actually a bad practice to take on then you well and truly have little to worry about in your life if this is the best you can come up with.

Kensington

I have a reservation, I go to my reserved seat.
I do not have a reservation, I go to an unreserved seat.

Ergo:
I have a reservation, I go to a carriage containing reserved seats.
I do not have a reservation, I go to a carriage without reserved seats.

I doubt CIE are going to cram people into an "unreserved" carriage when there are unreserved seats in other carriages, just because they haven't a reservation. If the carriage which people without reservations are being directed towards has empty seats, what's the problem?

cast_iron

foggy_lad wrote: »

But you can't just discommode passengers and treat them as an unofficial third class passenger because they have free travel.

Since each carriage is the same, how does sitting in one as opposed to the other make you 3rd class?

Losty Dublin

cast_iron wrote: »

Since each carriage is the same, how does sitting in one as opposed to the other make you 3rd class?

Maybe Irish Rail Seat Stazi should make those passengers with free passes wear a distinguishing mark on their jackets so they can be directed to their segregated seats... Something like say a Star of David

foggy_lad

Kensington wrote: »

I have a reservation, I go to my reserved seat.
I do not have a reservation, I go to an unreserved seat.

Ergo:
I have a reservation, I go to a carriage containing reserved seats.
I do not have a reservation, I go to a carriage without reserved seats.

I doubt CIE are going to cram people into an "unreserved" carriage when there are unreserved seats in other carriages, just because they haven't a reservation. If the carriage which people without reservations are being directed towards has empty seats, what's the problem?

I have a ticket so I find an unreserved seat and sit on it, the easiest way of doing this is to get on the nearest carriage to the boarding gate which is usually carriage C so I walk through the first carriage with reservations till I find a seat or continue onto the next carriage!

cast_iron wrote: »

Since each carriage is the same, how does sitting in one as opposed to the other make you 3rd class?

the distance from the boarding gate and station exits is far less for the carriages with reserved seats because of the layout of the stations.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Maybe Irish Rail Seat Stazi should make those passengers with free passes wear a distinguishing mark on their jackets so they can be directed to their segregated seats... Something like say a Star of David

Tickets for people with free travel are different to other paid for tickets already.

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have a ticket so I find an unreserved seat and sit on it, the easiest way of doing this is to get on the nearest carriage to the boarding gate which is usually carriage C so I walk through the first carriage with reservations till I find a seat or continue onto the next carriage!

Taking into account, doubtlessly, those many times that you tell us about when the booking system doesn't work :rolleyes:

foggy_lad wrote: »

the distance from the boarding gate and station exits is far less for the carriages with reserved seats because of the layout of the stations.

And closer to the front of the train at Heuston which means less walking.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Tickets for people with free travel are different to other paid for tickets already.

And your point here is what exactly? Are you above your fellow free pass bearing passengers for some reason?

Tefral

3 times in the last few months ive moved elderly people outta my seat. Im ****ing sick of it being honest. They know fine well that my name is on it too as they say oh your Mr. Cronin and then look up at my name.

Elderly people arent as stupid as some people think. Id have no problem helping them lift bags and what not and did do that with an old couple but i wont let them sit in my seat.

(as you can tell this is a big gripe of mine)

If Irish Rail are moving them to unreserved carriages i say fair play to them.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Taking into account, doubtlessly, those many times that you tell us about when the booking system doesn't work :rolleyes:



And closer to the front of the train at Heuston which means less walking.



And your point here is what exactly? Are you above your fellow free pass bearing passengers for some reason?

What do you mean? I have answered your question about Irish rail placing some distinguishing marking on free travel pass holders but you seem to have forgotten asking it?

Also the distance is far less for the carriages with reserved seats which are not open apparently to those with free travel like the elderly and infirm.

And in answer to your first comment, I have not complained at any tome about the booking system I think it works well but the charge to reserve a seat should be kept unless you are paying for the seat by credit card when it should be free to pay and also to reserve your seat.

Ellis Dee

foggy_lad wrote: »

A thought struck me recently(without doing too much damage) that Irish Rail appear to be practicing a form of segregation at certain stations including Cork Kent station and Galway station and also

At these stations I have seen elderly people who were quite feeble with free travel purple tickets being directed towards the last carriage of a long 6 car train even though there are hundreds of free and unreserved seats further up the train. I have heard staff telling these people they are not allowed travel in the carriages in the train that you can reserve a seat in as "they are all reserved for online reservations".

I am almost 100% sure you can sit in any free unreserved seat on any train regardless of having free travel or not and that I or anyone without a reservation could sit at the front or 2nd carriage as long as I did not sit on a seat that had someone's name above it. You can also sit on any seat with "reserved from xxxxxx" where the seat is reserved from a particular station on the line as long as you give up the seat to the person who has reserved it when they board the train.

What are Irish rail playing at? This is not the deep south of America although Irish rail may still be operating in the 1950's, surely segregation is illegal on trains in Eire?

I have also seen someone being told they must show photo id when requested to verify their entitlement to free travel by a ticket clerk and an RPU inspector, the person argued there was no legal obligation to carry id and that they only had a right to ask for a sample of the persons signature but they then threatened to keep the persons pass leaving them stranded hundred of miles from home, there should be more education on the operation of the free travel scheme for these nazis before they are put into customer facing roles!

This sounds very disturbing, and I hope those people's arses are well and truly caught in a wringer if it is established that they are behaving so despicably.:D

That said, I have both a Free Travel Pass and a Senior Smart Pass (for the Six Counties) and have never been asked for ID (although I always carry a passport - not an Irish one, either) or directed to any particular part of the train. Maybe that's because I still look reasonably youthful. In fact, when I was using crutches for a few months after an operation last year, Iarnrod Eireann staff were always courteous and helpful to me, but they never tried to stop me choosing which carriage I wanted to use.

Maybe I'm a bit prejudiced, though, because my aul lad worked all his life for CIE, which he always said stood for "Crucified Irish Employees".:)

cast_iron

foggy_lad wrote: »

the distance from the boarding gate and station exits is far less for the carriages with reserved seats because of the layout of the stations.

So they are 3rd class because they have to walk an extra 20m?

(40m at one end, and say, 20m at the other end, giving a net extra walk of 20m or so).

Surely this is trolling? I'm aghast if not.

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

And in answer to your first comment, I have not complained at any tome about the booking system I think it works well but the charge to reserve a seat should be kept unless you are paying for the seat by credit card when it should be free to pay and also to reserve your seat.

Only a few days ago you were all too keen to tell us about how booked seats were unreliable and how they were forever taken up and how staff won't make an effort to hold them for those who booked them; do you want us to link to them for you

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Taking into account, doubtlessly, those many times that you tell us about when the booking system doesn't work :rolleyes:

On no occasion have I personally relayed any story or tale of personal experience of the booking system not working!

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

On no occasion have I personally relayed any story or tale of personal experience of the booking system not working!

So your posts about being on trains and knowing that staff never being around to move people from seats aren't true then

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So your posts about being on trains and knowing that staff never being around to move people from seats aren't true then

No, the staff are usually nowhere to be found if even on the trains but I have never on any occasion had any issue with the booking system or even the reservation system which is what you accused me of complaining about.

cast_iron

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, the staff are usually nowhere to be found if even on the trains but I have never on any occasion had any issue with the booking system or even the reservation system which is what you accused me of complaining about.

Lets not de-rail the thread anymore than we have to.

Do you consider making people walk an extra few metres to be classing them as 3rd class citizens or not?

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, the staff are usually nowhere to be found if even on the trains but I have never on any occasion had any issue with the booking system or even the reservation system which is what you accused me of complaining about.

Given your knowledge and fuss about free passes it's evident to us all that you travel with one so your use and awareness of the online booking/reservation service will be nil.

As for not seeing the train host much, their primary role is to attend to passengers in 1st Class so you won't see them much elsewhere on a train :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

On behalf of the Foggy_Lad appreciation society I hereby officially request that Boards.ie Management provide at their earliest convienience a Facepalm smiley...all those in favour, raise their eyebrows

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not when they are deliberately overstepping their authority and threatening people who for whatever reason Posess a free travel pass, it is not their job to police the entitlement to free travel but to ensure that those who present free travel passes are doing so in accordance with the conditions so if you live in Dublin cork limerick etc you must have The photopass section of the pass, also you are obliged to give a sample of your signature if asked but do not have to provide photo or other id to travel using a free travel pass.

Nazis who threaten people ? are you seriously comparing Irish rail to nazis who killed millions of jews?

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have also seen someone being told they must show photo id when requested to verify their entitlement to free travel by a ticket clerk and an RPU inspector, the person argued there was no legal obligation to carry id and that they only had a right to ask for a sample of the persons signature but they then threatened to keep the persons pass leaving them stranded hundred of miles from home, there should be more education on the operation of the free travel scheme for these nazis before they are put into customer facing roles!

I think maybe they overplayed their hand, but it is the job of the RPU to be, eh, direct, with people they suspect of travelling without the correct ticket.

foggy_lad wrote: »

On the other point, no coaches are reserved! .

Some coaches may have been sold out.

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have a ticket so I find an unreserved seat and sit on it, the easiest way of doing this is to get on the nearest carriage to the boarding gate which is usually carriage C so I walk through the first carriage with reservations till I find a seat or continue onto the next carriage!

I tried this recently, only to have to fight my way through three reservation carriages, busy with people sorting luggage, settling in, etc. only to find some perfectly empty unreserved carriages.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Given your knowledge and fuss about free passes it's evident to us all that you travel with one so your use and awareness of the online booking/reservation service will be nil.

People with travel passes are perfectly entltied to have "reservation only" tickets.

foggy_lad

cast_iron wrote: »

Lets not de-rail the thread anymore than we have to.

Do you consider making people walk an extra few metres to be classing them as 3rd class citizens or not?

Yes when there is nothing in the bye-laws stating that the other carriages are only for those who have reserved a seat.

Victor wrote: »

I think maybe they overplayed their hand, but it is the job of the RPU to be, eh, direct, with people they suspect of travelling without the correct ticket.

Well imagine the scene when a disabled young man walks up to get a ticket from cork to Dublin and is asked for id, he asks why he is being asked for id because he is mildly disabled but not stupid and knows the conditions of the free travel scheme. The clerk tells him he has to produce photo id if requested. The man knows this is not true and tells the clerk who as far as I saw did not like being questioned by someone with a free travel pass and immediately told the man he would not be traveling or get his pass back without producing photo id.

Another man who has been chatting with some other idle Irish rail staff then approaches the man and quickly flashes a badge and his own identification only it was done too quickly to be read to get his name but this RPU inspector tells the man he must produce some form of id or he won't get his pass back and won't be allowed travel. The ticket clerk again tells the man he must produce either photo Id or some other form of id before taking the mans travel pass off the counter and appeared to place it to one side as if he is not going to return it. The man luckily found some id to show this ticket clerk but All I could think was what a pair of spineless bastards ganging up on someone like this especially when they were completely in the wrong.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Given your knowledge and fuss about free passes it's evident to us all that you travel with one so your use and awareness of the online booking/reservation service will be nil.

As for not seeing the train host much, their primary role is to attend to passengers in 1st Class so you won't see them much elsewhere on a train :rolleyes:

Are you saying that I use a free travel pass and if so please explain how you know this? How I pay for my travel and how for or how often I travel is none of your business!

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

People with travel passes are perfectly entltied to have "reservation only" tickets.

I am well aware of that; I'd guess very very few free pass holders avail of this booking option.

foggy_lad

Most people whether paying or pass holders will not pay Irish rail for a system that does not work because there is never anyone on board when you find someone sitting in your seat. What I have said before is there should be someone in say cork Galway Sligo etc checking seats which are reserved and making sure other people do not sit in them but Irish rail can't do this unfortunately due to the costs involved.

How do other railways in the uk or Europe deal with people without reservations sitting in reserved seats?

dowlingm

I suppose foggy applauded when Seamus Brennan put DSP recipients into entitlement to peak time travel at a time when ridership was peaking and people were fainting on trains, since this was temporal segregation.

Free travel is farcical and should be abolished forthwith. It should be replaced by a system where seniors get DISCOUNTED travel including the right to reserve seats by telephone without charge. In no way can it be claimed that seniors "paid in" and are entitled to this benefit gratis since no trust exists to endow the resulting outgoings.

For others, they get a limited amount of travel allowance dependent on why they need travel - if a Killarney person needs to get to Tralee for medical treatment 5 days a month, they shouldn't have a pass which gets them to Dundalk the other 25 days for free should they so wish.

Aard

Getting offended on behalf of other people... Who knows, maybe it suits the OAPs to be all together in a carriage? Nobody is going to rush past them and bump into them, and they'll always have somebody willing to talk with them about old people stuff.

blackdog2

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes when there is nothing in the bye-laws stating that the other carriages are only for those who have reserved a seat.

Well imagine the scene when a disabled young man walks up to get a ticket from cork to Dublin and is asked for id, he asks why he is being asked for id because he is mildly disabled but not stupid and knows the conditions of the free travel scheme. The clerk tells him he has to produce photo id if requested. The man knows this is not true and tells the clerk who as far as I saw did not like being questioned by someone with a free travel pass and immediately told the man he would not be traveling or get his pass back without producing photo id.

Another man who has been chatting with some other idle Irish rail staff then approaches the man and quickly flashes a badge and his own identification only it was done too quickly to be read to get his name but this RPU inspector tells the man he must produce some form of id or he won't get his pass back and won't be allowed travel. The ticket clerk again tells the man he must produce either photo Id or some other form of id before taking the mans travel pass off the counter and appeared to place it to one side as if he is not going to return it. The man luckily found some id to show this ticket clerk but All I could think was what a pair of spineless bastards ganging up on someone like this especially when they were completely in the wrong.

um, maybe its not in the law, but would it be a terrible thing to bring a law like that in?

foggy_lad

blackdog2 wrote: »

um, maybe its not in the law, but would it be a terrible thing to bring a law like that in?

Where do you draw the line though? Do you then prohibit older people or those with certain medical conditions from traveling at all? Maybe it would be better to just stick them into institutions behind 12ft high walls like was done in the not too distant past?

-Chris-

foggy_lad wrote: »

Where do you draw the line though? Do you then prohibit older people or those with certain medical conditions from traveling at all? Maybe it would be better to just stick them into institutions behind 12ft high walls like was done in the not too distant past?

I presume he means a law that requires people to carry photo ID to prove they're the person the pass refers to.

foggy_lad

-Chris- wrote: »

I presume he means a law that requires people to carry photo ID to prove they're the person the pass refers to.

Why should people have to carry photo id when they have been issued with a travel pass though? Will it then be necessary for those on social welfare to carry photo id? Why not just introduce a national identity card for all citizens? We could also have checkpoints around the country and mobile checkpoints where id cards must be shown.

Ireland is not a police state like many of our European neighbors although many would like to see it that way.

-Chris-

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why shoul d people have to carry photo id when they have been issued with a travel pass though? Will it then be necessary for those on social welfare to carry photo id? Why not just introduce a national identity card for all citizens? We could also have checkpoints around the country and mobile checkpoints where id cards must be shown.

Ireland is not a police state like many of our European neighbors although many would like to see it that way.

They should carry photo ID to prove they are the person the pass refers to. It's a sensible measure to combat misuse.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why should people have to carry photo id when they have been issued with a travel pass though? Will it then be necessary for those on social welfare to carry photo id? Why not just introduce a national identity card for all citizens? We could also have checkpoints around the country and mobile checkpoints where id cards must be shown.

Ireland is not a police state like many of our European neighbors although many would like to see it that way.

It could come in handy when you are asked to move from a seat by a person who claims that they have a reservation for that seat.

In your postings on this thread Foggy, how much is actual hard facts and truth and how much is your spin on it? In your OP, where you part of the group that was asked to use a different carriage or did you just overhear part of what was being said and came up with your own version of events or did someone just tell you casually at later date as to what happened?

Is that just a scenario with the disabled chap being asked for ID or did you witness it yourself? If it is just an example the why havent you said so give the way people read the board and start giving out based on what you posted. Not being funny Foggy Lad but a lot of your postings seem like trolling to me just to get a negative feedback against Irish Rail.
Just a question regarding your OP, was the carriage the travel pass holders directed to close to the platform gate or further on down the platform?

-Chris-

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Not being funny Foggy Lad but a lot of your postings seem like trolling to me just to get a negative feedback against Irish Rail.

If you think a post, or poster, is trolling please report the post. It's not on to accuse people of trolling.

mikemac

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why should people have to carry photo id when they have been issued with a travel pass though?

Widespread fraud, Primetime Investigates interviewed a person making fakes for €100.
€100 for pass to travel around the country is great deal considering a taxsaver ticket can cost over €1000.
By pass I mean battered piece of cardboard.
Didn't Aleksmart post there were over 600,000 passes out there.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will it then be necessary for those on social welfare to carry photo id? .

If you are on Jobseekers, the post office already can ask for photo ID though if you're known and a local they don't.

But you seem to have an issue with photo ID but seem happy with verifying signature.
You realy think the checker at the gate should ask a pass holder to sign something and check the signature? It might be a rule but it needs to go.

Stark

mikemac wrote: »

The day it's a packed train and a full fare passenger tells a pensioner shift of their reserved seat will have Joe Duffy show in meltdown the next day. :eek:

Young pups and Irish rail moving our elderly and making them stand and search for a seat, what kind of nation are we??

If you direct people to the unreserved carraiges it solves all problems.
Yes the staff could explain the entire reservation system to everyone at the gates but just directing them is quicker.

Ok, they shouldn't be told they can only use certain carraiges, it's not correct.
But how does the man who gets on at Thurles move a pensioner from his seat without getting dirty looks from everyone? Can't be done.
And maybe foggy_lad you'd be here complaining if you saw such a thing

I'm young, able bodied but definitly not fit! :pac:
If I have no reservation I've zero issue with being directed to a carraige for passengers without reservations

I remember being on a train before where some wagon came on board with her elderly mother and sat down in seats that had been reserved for someone else. When her mother pointed out the fact to her and suggested they sit elsewhere, the response was "Just act stupid when they come round". Cue five minutes later: "How dare you suggest that we move? How were we to know the seats are reserved, I didn't see that sign when I came in. Can't you see my mother is sick and infirm?" etc.

xper

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why should people have to carry photo id when they have been issued with a travel pass though? Will it then be necessary for those on social welfare to carry photo id? Why not just introduce a national identity card for all citizens? We could also have checkpoints around the country and mobile checkpoints where id cards must be shown.

Ireland is not a police state like many of our European neighbors although many would like to see it that way.

I just came across this other post by you from just three days ago in another current C&T thread. Are you
a ) psychitzophrenic?
b ) making it up as you go along?
c ) the victim of online identity theft?
d ) posting counter arguments for the sake of arguing?
e ) other (please explain) ?

bazza1

Free passes?
Staff assisting the elderly to unreserved seating?
Asking for ID? The nerve? Papieren Bitte!