9% VAT name and shame thread

mike65

From revenue.ie
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/rates/rate-changes-jobs-initiative.html

Supplies of goods and services at the new 9% rate:

the supply of food and drink (excluding alcohol and soft drinks) in the course of catering or by means of a vending machine (See footnote 1)

hot take-away food and hot drinks

hotel lettings, including guest-houses, caravan parks, camping sites etc
admissions to cinemas, theatres, certain musical performances, museums, art gallery exhibitions

amusement services of the kind normally supplied in fairgrounds or amusement park services

the provision of facilities for taking part in sporting activities by a person other than a non-profit making organisation

printed matter e.g. newspapers, brochures, leaflets, programmes, maps, catalogues, printed music (excluding books)

hairdressing services

(Note: beauty treatments:- for example, facials, massages, nail treatments, tanning or sunbed services etc., remain liable at the 13.5% rate).

I imagine the main areas of interest will be hot take-away food, hotels, guest houses, haircuts, cinema tickets and concerts (though that area seems a bit vague).

booboo88

really stupid question, by services do they mean elec and phone as well?

stargazer 68

Was wondering if we would get a thread on this. I was at the cinema last night and am going again on Sunday - interesting to see if the prices will be reduced. So what happens if its not??

PCPhoto

nothing happens if its not cheaper .... the government have "Asked" businesses to pass on the VAT decrease they have not said its now law.

Businesses are still willing and able to charge whatever people will pay - if you find a cheaper cinema elsewhere...go there ...and maybe the cinema you are currently going to will eventually drop their prices....only way to get businesses to drop their prices is to refuse to go there and risk having them run out of business.

at the end of the day every business knows that if they lessen their margin of profit there is a chance of getting more customers and actually increased profit overall (does not work all the time however and some shops goto the wall with higher debts despite dropping their prices)

booboo88

but vat is paid to government anyway is it not?

Paulw

They must pass on the VAT changes, however, they may increase their base cost (ex vat) to bring it back to the same price.

There should be a price reduction, but many places will still charge the same final amount.

Name and shame is right.

booboo88

Paulw wrote: »

They must pass on the VAT changes, however, they may increase their base cost (ex vat) to bring it back to the same price.

There should be a price reduction, but many places will still charge the same final amount.

Name and shame is right.

wouldnt surprise me

Cabaal

Paulw wrote: »

They must pass on the VAT changes, however, they may increase their base cost (ex vat) to bring it back to the same price.

The Irish Times is reporting that they are not obliged to pass it on

bren2002

Insomnia in Spar Grand Canal Harbour. Yesterday an Americano was €2.35, and today an Americano is €2.35

Tippex

Daily Mirror is down from €1 to 95c
Herald is down from €1.20 to €1

Paulw

Cabaal wrote: »

The Irish Times is reporting that they are not obliged to pass it on

According to the Independent, they must.

People should check their receipts and query if there is no reduction in price.

lasno

Was in a branch off BB's this morning. I enquired about the VAT reduction and was told "we were going to increase the price this week but have decided not to because of the reduction in VAT". Rip off Ireland goes from strength to strength.

booboo88

lasno wrote: »

Was in a branch off BB's this morning. I enquired about the VAT reduction and was told "we were going to increase the price this week but have decided not to because of the reduction in VAT". Rip off Ireland goes from strength to strength.

if you feel you are being ripped off in bbs not do buy your coffee there, theres loads more places

mike65

I suspect there will be a lot of sudden cost increases that happen to magically cancel out the 4% difference

PCPhoto

lasno wrote: »

Was in a branch off BB's this morning. I enquired about the VAT reduction and was told "we were going to increase the price this week but have decided not to because of the reduction in VAT". Rip off Ireland goes from strength to strength.

I hope you tell them "thats ok" - you'll go somewhere where the VAT reduction is passed on.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

ScouseMouse

Paulw wrote: »

According to the Independent, they must.

People should check their receipts and query if there is no reduction in price.

I fully agree that the prices should go down BUT the indo is wrong. Its a free market and the shops can do what they like. (bad move though)

borderlinemeath

Just to balance it out..

Peter Mark hairdressers have been advertising the VAT reduction for a couple of weeks now, saying they were implementing ahead of time and also running a promo this week for 20% off all hairdressing plus the VAT reduction.

http://www.petermark.ie/

I haven't got my hair cut there for a couple of years, anybody know the current price? It used to start at about €40 ish for a ladies cut and blow dry.

Drumpot

Im sure if VAT went up most places would have it factored in before opening their doors again. Its just sad really.

Was at cinema last night. €10.90 per ticket then and same now in Movies at Swords.

Paulw

superscouse wrote: »

I fully agree that the prices should go down BUT the indo is wrong. Its a free market and the shops can do what they like. (bad move though)

Well, yes and no.

Yes, it's a free market, and they can charge what they like, but the VAT rate has reduced.

eg -

burger (in chipper) Net Price - €5 (€4.43 + 13% VAT)
Today Burger net price if kept the same - €5 (€4.59 + 9% VAT)
If they kept price the same - the net price to the customer, at 9% would be €4.83.

In this case, the cost to the consumer has not decreased, but the vat rate has. In effect, the store has increased their price on the item.

None of this is illegal. But, the retailer must only make returns to the Revenue based on the vat rate (9%).

ScouseMouse

Paulw wrote: »

Well, yes and no.

Yes, it's a free market, and they can charge what they like, but the VAT rate has reduced.

eg -

burger (in chipper) Net Price - €5 (€4.43 + 13% VAT)
Today Burger net price if kept the same - €5 (€4.59 + 9% VAT)
If they kept price the same - the net price to the customer, at 9% would be €4.83.

In this case, the cost to the consumer has not decreased, but the vat rate has. In effect, the store has increased their price on the item.

None of this is illegal. But, the retailer must only make returns to the Revenue based on the vat rate (9%).

Yep, the shop now returns the 9% to revenue, but has no legal obligation to lower its prices. However, they would be crackers not to.

Yakuza

superscouse wrote: »

I fully agree that the prices should go down BUT the indo is wrong. Its a free market and the shops can do what they like. (bad move though)

They will be charging 9% VAT now (instead of 13.5%), but they might not pass the reduction on.
To use numbers - some good/service that cost €10 yesterday consisted of €8.81 revenue to the shop and €1.19 VAT. Today, something that costs €10 is now made up of €9.17 revenue and €0.83 VAT, a difference of €0.36 extra revenue to the shop. I'm guessing that the folks in the retail trade would say that they've had to cut their prices so much in the last few years, that they will not be passing on the reduction.

For a €2 cup of coffee, I wouldn't be too bothered about the 7 cents that in theory I'd be entitled to, but I definitely would be looking for the €360 reduction if I'm spending 10k on a wedding.

That said, if someone has paid a deposit on a wedding before now, how can that have a VAT element (the good / service hasn't been delivered yet - it's just a deposit against the final bill due). When paying the final bill for the wedding etc, the new VAT rate should be applied against the total bill and any previous deposits paid should be netted off against the new total (at the lower rate). That's my layman's view of it, at any rate.

maxer68

Just remember that there are many products that have no change in the vat rate and many that have a zero rate. - Fo cafes & sandwich bars it is a mine field - so before anyone starts accusing places of not passing on reductions read the following from Revenue.ie

"The supply of certain items of food and drink to take away is liable to VAT at zero per cent. These include cold food such as sandwiches and yoghurts, and milk and certain milk based drinks. Where these items of food and drink are sold to 'eat in' in a coffee shop or snack bar, they become liable to VAT at the reduced rate. Hot food is also liable to VAT at the reduced rate, as are tea, coffee, and bakery products such as cakes and non-chocolate biscuits, whether sold to eat in or take out. Other beverages, confectionary and savoury snacks are generally liable to VAT at the standard rate"

so your standard takeaway sandwich won't change, your heated sandwich will change, your sit-down sandwich will change, your coke won't, neither will your crisps, milk or yogurt. :D who wants to be a sandwich bar owner today with the usual moaners out there??:D

faceman

Munchies in East Point, Movies @ Dundrum and Butlers Choc Cafe have not reduced their prices.

TheDriver

got the haircut this morning, Lithuanian girl didn't charge me any less than before as the cash disappeared into her arse pocket.....

CardBordWindow

After the newspaper reports about hotels in Waterford tripling their price for the Tall Ships, it'll be interesting to see will their prices drop to reflect the VAT change.

Drumpot

maxer68 wrote: »

Just remember that there are many products that have no change in the vat rate and many that have a zero rate. - Fo cafes & sandwich bars it is a mine field - so before anyone starts accusing places of not passing on reductions read the following from Revenue.ie

"The supply of certain items of food and drink to take away is liable to VAT at zero per cent. These include cold food such as sandwiches and yoghurts, and milk and certain milk based drinks. Where these items of food and drink are sold to 'eat in' in a coffee shop or snack bar, they become liable to VAT at the reduced rate. Hot food is also liable to VAT at the reduced rate, as are tea, coffee, and bakery products such as cakes and non-chocolate biscuits, whether sold to eat in or take out. Other beverages, confectionary and savoury snacks are generally liable to VAT at the standard rate"

so your standard takeaway sandwich won't change, your heated sandwich will change, your sit-down sandwich will change, your coke won't, neither will your crisps, milk or yogurt. :D who wants to be a sandwich bar owner today with the usual moaners out there??:D

I agree to a point. But you know that if the VAT rates were going up on specific goods/services, the owners wouldnt take the hit and would of done their homework to make sure that the consumer pays its dues and the owner doesnt take the hit.

Motivation of the pocket is what drives efficiency!

phill106

Be interesting to see if the multiples lower prices of magazines etc.
Bought a magazine week before last, ill compare against the next months issue!

dudara

Moved to Rip Off Ireland

dudara

cabrwab

CardBordWindow wrote: »

After the newspaper reports about hotels in Waterford tripling their price for the Tall Ships, it'll be interesting to see will their prices drop to reflect the VAT change.

I know of one hotel group in waterford that are not reducing, the group decided not to pass on this saving to help save jobs

bernard0368

KFC's receipt today shows the vat been charged at 15% :eek:

€7.99 inc 15% vat = €1.04

channelsurfer2

oirish daily mail.. price yesterday 1euro.. price today 50cent but price tomorrow 1.20.. no change.. so a nice profit on all those 50000 papers they sell each day.

maxer68

bernard0368 wrote: »

KFC's receipt today shows the vat been charged at 15% :eek:

€7.99 inc 15% vat = €1.04

This is a combination vat rate and is used for "meal deals"

The hot food portion is 13.5% and the drink portion is 21%

Overall, they would ahve come to agreement with revenue that 15% of the net price is a fair attributation to vat for the combined meal.

That should now drop to about 12.5% (9% food & still 21% drink) if they abide by the spirit of the vat reduction.

harr

UCI cimema still chargeing €9.80

channelsurfer2

irish independent... retail price now 1.85.. should be 1.83... if you calculate it out it means that independent newspapers will make an extra 830,000euro in profit by not passing on the extra 2 cent over a full year excluding the sunday independent edition.

DoesNotCompute

TheDriver wrote: »

got the haircut this morning, Lithuanian girl didn't charge me any less than before as the cash disappeared into her arse pocket.....

What has nationality got to do with businesses not passing on the VAT reduction?

phester28

Lunch time special and normal prices remain the same

Nanazolie

I thought the all purpose of the VAT reduction was to encourage consumers' spending? If the consumer doesn't see any reduction in the prices, the companies might make more money to help them stay afloat, but in the long run, they will not benefit from more custom, so it's their loss, really

Why is the VAT different on food and beverage when you eat a hot meal or a cold sandwich? It sounds very complicated, what drives it?

phester28

if the vat is printed separately on the bill at the incorrect rate then would this not break some law. otherwise we can all start making up our own vat rate or charge vat on vat free products and pocket the money

Yakuza

Nanazolie wrote: »

I thought the all purpose of the VAT reduction was to encourage consumers' spending?

It was part of the recent "jobs budget". I guess the logic somewhere was that if a company gets more revenue from the same products, then it can retain or perhaps increase its staff numbers. The reality is that folks just want to pay less for their services (which is totally reasonable) so that there is more in their pocket (to perhaps spend on other services that they mightn't have otherwise).

I'm getting the distinct image of deckchairs being re-arranged on the Titanic...

jett

A high rate of tax charged on the whole cost of a chocky biccky when a lower rate is charged on a plain biccky.
Surely the higher rate should only be paid on the chocky content which in realitiy is only about 20% by weight?
Now thats a rip off
And i ain't naming the shop:D

Yakuza

jett wrote: »

A high rate of tax charged on the whole cost of a chocky biccky when a lower rate is charged on a plain biccky.
Surely the higher rate should only be paid on the chocky content which in realitiy is only about 20% by weight?
Now thats a rip off
And i ain't naming the shop:D

By adding chocky, it is now deemed a "luxury":mad:

PARKHEAD67

Dovies wrote: »

Was wondering if we would get a thread on this. I was at the cinema last night and am going again on Sunday - interesting to see if the prices will be reduced. So what happens if its not??

Nothing.Its up to the company to drop their prices accordingly.They dont HAVE to, so they probably wont. Or might drop it by say 5 cent or something;)

pigeonbutler

Great quote here which explains some of the questions about why some things are some rates and other things are others:

In a gem of a judicial comment on the alleged simplicity of the modern
VAT system, Lord Justice Sedley sardonically remarked: “Beyond the
everyday world … lies the world of VAT, a kind of fiscal theme park in which
factual and legal realities are suspended or inverted. In this complex parallel
universe …relatively uncomplicated solutions are a snare and a delusion”

A lot of it is driven by EU Law. An EU directive sets the parameters for the VAT system throughout the Union. Member States can tweak their national system only within those parameters. That's complicated further by a lot of countries having various derogations from the standard rules which were effectively "grandfathered" in.

PARKHEAD67

harr wrote: »

UCI cimema still chargeing €9.80

Exactly. The saving wont be passed on to the consumer.The retailer will pocket the saving. Sad, but true.Theres no law forcing them to pass on the saving so basically the whole thing is a big waste of time.

PARKHEAD67

Yakuza wrote: »

By adding chocky, it is now deemed a "luxury":mad:

In the same way a steering wheel is a luxury on a car.:D

Dymo

Yakuza wrote: »

By adding chocky, it is now deemed a "luxury":mad:

Toilet paper a also deemed as a luxury.

Berty

McDonalds charged me 9% on 25% of the bill and 21% on the remainder.

Receipt to prove it.

gipi

Stopped into my local chipper on the way home for my usual order....and paid the usual price, nothing has been changed!

Sod'o swords

I'll try list the papers i remember from work.

Irish Indo - 1.90 to 1.85
Irish times - 1.90 to 1.85
Sun - 1.00 to .95
Irish Daily mail - 1(I think) to .50
Mirror 1 - to .95

I can't remember all the prices, but most papers have gone down, one or two haven't changed. All Magazines have dropped, well the ones that have an English price on them anyway.

fds

IMC cinemas in Dun Laoghaire have brought down all of their prices today. They were on around .40c - .90c more yesterday

http://www.imccinemas.ie/cinema_info.asp