Washing machine in upstairs bathroom?

CuppaCocoa

We are in the process of having plans drawn up to renovate an old house we've bought. It's a small house and the kitchen is tiny. The architect has suggested that we put the hot water tank in the bathroom upstairs (currently in back bedroom). It will be a new one to replace the old inefficient one. I'd like to have the washing machine in the bathroom as well to free up more space in the kitchen. Would this be advisable? There's enough room for it. Can't remember whether we asked the architect about this . Has anyone done this?

slavetothegrind

you are not allowed have the washing machine in the bathroom, you will have to squeeze it in elsewhere

did your architect have a look at a combi boiler to do away with the hot water storage tank and free up space?

paddy147

Big no no to washing machine in an upstairs bathroom.

Build a small outhouse/garage/utility room out back garden,,if you can,and put the washer and dryer in there.

colm ross

mother has one in upstairs bathroom for years. no problems yet

Solnskaya

slavetothegrind wrote: »

you are not allowed have the washing machine in the bathroom, you will have to squeeze it in elsewhere

did your architect have a look at a combi boiler to do away with the hot water storage tank and free up space?

Only according to the fashion police. For all the non-fashionable, you can have the washing machine in the attic if you like. I had mine in the bathroom upstairs for ages during our refurb and it was wonderful. Well, the missus liked it anyway.

paddy147

Solnskaya wrote: »

Only according to the fashion police. For all the non-fashionable, you can have the washing machine in the attic if you like. I had mine in the bathroom upstairs for ages during our refurb and it was wonderful. Well, the missus liked it anyway.

Nothing to do with the fashion police at all.:rolleyes:


Its to do with mains electricity in the bathroom and also trip hazzards with regards plumbing of the machine too.Did you ever stop to think of this?

Safety is what its about.

Solnskaya

paddy147 wrote: »

Nothing to do with the fashion police at all.:rolleyes:


Its to do with mains electricity in the bathroom and also trip hazzards with regards plumbing of the machine too.Did you ever stop to think of this?

Safety is what its about.

plumbings all behind, nothing to trip over, and ever checked out the regs on how far the leccy needs to be from the bath?, it's not that far. Last time I checked, a lot of showers are mains powered, fairly juicy auld supply going in too, and its about 4" from where the water comes out. Shaver sockets and hairdryers also tend to use juice, and they tend to be in bathrooms as well. I plumb up industrial washrooms and toilet blocks for a living, so your not going to tell me the regs and have me here all surprised now are you?? The number of washing machines in bathrooms might surprise you, it's bathrooms we're discussing, not wetrooms. I've also installed a rather large number of handdryers, mostly 2000 watts, and last time I looked, they were not wind-powered. IP65 sockets anybody?

knighted_1

wrong - the equipment you install in washrooms are ip rated along with domestic showers , extractor fans etc

washing machines do not have an ip rating so shouldn't be used in a bathroom

mattjack

bathrooms/shower rooms are regarded as "special locations" with regard to electrical installation....IP ratings for these areas will be differant for the rest of the house......anyone with a washing machine in a bathroom is just asking for trouble....and if you can find an electrician who will put a socket in a bathroom .............................enough said..

mattjack

colm ross wrote: »

mother has one in upstairs bathroom for years. no problems yet

yet.........

yoshytoshy

Funny replies from solnskaya ,ever bring a kettle into a bathroom or a hair dryer ?
Where do you suggest the shower be mounted ? in the kitchen maybe or the garden shed even.

spurious

The bathroom was the standard place for a washing machine in old Eastern bloc apartments, but that was probably because the kitchens were the size of a bath.

paddy147

Yeah,its all to do with the fashion police still,isnt it Solnskaya??

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Funny replies from solnskaya ,ever bring a kettle into a bathroom or a hair dryer ?
Where do you suggest the shower be mounted ? in the kitchen maybe or the garden shed even.

Ah sure stick the shower on the fireplace/chimney breast,so you get cleaned and wet,yet you get toasted dry at the same time too.

Who needs a hair dryer when you can just stick your head into the fireplace for a bit and dry your hair like that,or even better still,turn on the oven and stick your head into that for a few minutes.:D:D

colm ross

mattjack wrote: »

yet.........

15 years so far

Doom

There is a Darwin Award due here soon :rolleyes:

TheBody

Quoting from the latest edition of the electrical regs:

In zone 3: "Socket-outlets at SLEV only"

SELV stands for "seperated extra low voltage"


In other words, you can't have a REGULAR 230 volt socket in a bathroom.

mattjack

Doom wrote: »

There is a Darwin Award due here soon :rolleyes:

without doubt...

colm ross

Doom wrote: »

There is a Darwin Award due here soon :rolleyes:

its the third machine now.

mattjack

colm ross wrote: »

its the third machine now.

did a tradesman actually plumb this in and fit a socket..or was it your mother..?

colm ross

mattjack wrote: »

did a tradesman actually plumb this in and fit a socket..or was it your mother..?

it was a bedroom converted to a bathroom. socket was already there.:P

mattjack

colm ross wrote: »

it was a bedroom converted to a bathroom. socket was already there.:P

well..thats just fine then..

Solnskaya

Yeah, ours was there for 4 years, stuck it there when we renovated and it was so handy it just got left. Love all the smart ar5e comments from the unemployed plumbers association:p You would have to be careful that nobody picked up the washing machine and accidentally dropped it into the bath though, especially if someone was in the bath, and the lead was long enough not to unplug when you were lifting it, blah blah, blah..

colm ross

Solnskaya wrote: »

Yeah, ours was there for 4 years, stuck it there when we renovated and it was so handy it just got left. Love all the smart ar5e comments from the unemployed plumbers association:p You would have to be careful that nobody picked up the washing machine and accidentally dropped it into the bath though, especially if someone was in the bath, and the lead was long enough not to unplug when you were lifting it, blah blah, blah..

but then again. someone might p-ss in it.:(

yoshytoshy

You could always throw the kids in the washing machine while your up there ,maybe even stick it on dry afterwards.

At least it would save you some time:)

colm ross

yoshytoshy wrote: »

You could always throw the kids in the washing machine while your up there ,maybe even stick it on dry afterwards.

At least it would save you some time:)

and a few bob:D

Del2005

TheBody wrote: »

Quoting from the latest edition of the electrical regs:

In zone 3: "Socket-outlets at SLEV only"

SELV stands for "seperated extra low voltage"


In other words, you can't have a REGULAR 230 volt socket in a bathroom.

Quick someone please tell the rest of Europe that they are all going to die, there's only 2 countries I've never see mains electricity in the bathroom.

paddy147

Solnskaya wrote: »

Yeah, ours was there for 4 years, stuck it there when we renovated and it was so handy it just got left. Love all the smart ar5e comments from the unemployed plumbers association:p You would have to be careful that nobody picked up the washing machine and accidentally dropped it into the bath though, especially if someone was in the bath, and the lead was long enough not to unplug when you were lifting it, blah blah, blah..

So you have read all the up to date regs then (as you previously claimed) with regards electrics in a bathroom???

Because clearly you havent,when reading over all your posts and also your comments towards others.

Unemployed plumbers.......what the hell is that all about and what has that got to do with this thread/topic,apart from comming out of your brain????:rolleyes:

You havent a clue in fact,so I wouldnt be so cocky or arrogant in mocking others,when these people actually know more than you with regards electrical regs and bathrooms.


If this was in the "electrical" forum,then they would have had an absolute field day with you with regards this matter.

Try posting this in the electrical forum and see what happens,go on.

paddy147

Solnskaya wrote: »

plumbings all behind, nothing to trip over, and ever checked out the regs on how far the leccy needs to be from the bath?, it's not that far.

So you have done your homework with regards the electric regs and a bathroom??

Well then please post this post of yours in the electrical forum and see what replies you get back from all the electricians on there.

I wonder if you will then resort to mocking all of them too???:rolleyes:

knighted_1

unreal thread -
ok - anyone can do anything they want - this is Ireland , nobody here to stop you -

you can stick 230v up ur arse if it gets you kicks , doesnt mean it's right just nobody to correct you -

why I don't put a washing machine in my bathroom is I don't want to take a chance with my child's life - if they get out of shower/bath wet and touch a machine which is not double insulated and get fried I couldn't live with myself-might never happen but physics tells me it can - that's why they wrote the regs the eat they did -but that's just me -I don't stick 230 up my arse either

if you want a machine in the bathroom the regs say you can if it's rcd protected and at least 3 meters from a wet zone - not many bathrooms like that around even the Victorian houses wouldn't comply

Micky Dolenz

Solnskaya wrote: »

Yeah, ours was there for 4 years, stuck it there when we renovated and it was so handy it just got left. Love all the smart ar5e comments from the unemployed plumbers association:p You would have to be careful that nobody picked up the washing machine and accidentally dropped it into the bath though, especially if someone was in the bath, and the lead was long enough not to unplug when you were lifting it, blah blah, blah..

Infracted for that.Don't insult the tradespeople who give up their time and expertise to give free advice and Please don't give advise on a subject you clearly know very little on

OP, it's against the regs. No tradesperson with insurance would do it for you. There is a right and a wrong way to do everything. I'd like to think when people ask questions here, they are advised in the right way of doing things.

Solnskaya

actually, you are all wrong about the regs lads. Funnily enough, I carry €6.5m euro liability insurance, and would never do anything to risk a claim against that. There appears to be a bit of confusion here. Zone 1 is the area directly encompassed by the perimeter of the bath and the wash hand basin. Zone 2 is the area directly above this cube. Zone 0 is the area beneath this. All of these specific areas, Zone 0-3 require the use of SELV devices and sockets. Again, this is the area directly above and below the bath only. The REST of the bathroom is Zoned as Zone 3, and provided that the circuit is correctly wired to include a correctly rated and installed RCD, normal 13amp sockets May be installed in zone 3. There is NO requirement for IP65 sockets or fittings in Zone 3. So, and I await an apology from all those who had a lot to say to the contrary:rolleyes:, you can indeed, install a washing machine in a bathroom. By the way, washing machines are fully double earthed and insulated, because, funnily enough, THEY CONTAIN A LOT OF WATER and you will no doubt somtimes have the need to empty them with wet hands because the washing comes out WET. I might somtimes try and fail to be witty with my replies, but please don't give me the Bull about not knowing the regs, I spend my day advising people about the regs.

yoshytoshy

Solnskaya wrote: »

actually, you are all wrong about the regs lads. Funnily enough, I carry €6.5m euro liability insurance, and would never do anything to risk a claim against that. There appears to be a bit of confusion here. Zone 1 is the area directly encompassed by the perimeter of the bath and the wash hand basin. Zone 2 is the area directly above this cube. Zone 0 is the area beneath this. All of these specific areas, Zone 0-3 require the use of SELV devices and sockets. Again, this is the area directly above and below the bath only. The REST of the bathroom is Zoned as Zone 3, and provided that the circuit is correctly wired to include a correctly rated and installed RCD, normal 13amp sockets May be installed in zone 3. There is NO requirement for IP65 sockets or fittings in Zone 3. So, and I await an apology from all those who had a lot to say to the contrary:rolleyes:, you can indeed, install a washing machine in a bathroom. By the way, washing machines are fully double earthed and insulated, because, funnily enough, THEY CONTAIN A LOT OF WATER and you will no doubt somtimes have the need to empty them with wet hands because the washing comes out WET. I might somtimes try and fail to be witty with my replies, but please don't give me the Bull about not knowing the regs, I spend my day advising people about the regs.

Seriously ,give it a rest. You were told about the machine being a minimum of 3 meters from the bath. If the house has a bathroom that big ,there would be plenty of room eslewhere for the machine.

Who cares if you have insurance ,its not a licence to kill.

Micky Dolenz

See, you can be helpful and nearly civil when you try.

Solnskaya

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Seriously ,give it a rest. You were told about the machine being a minimum of 3 meters from the bath. If the house has a bathroom that big ,there would be plenty of room eslewhere for the machine.

Who cares if you have insurance ,its not a licence to kill.

The regs were recently revised to bring us in line with the UK, so, who exactly told me? I can actually quote you chapter and verse from the regs, I have to refer to them daily. There is absolutely no 3m requirement, so maybe it's not me who just likes to take guesses. No mention of the washing machine being totally water safe either Yoshy? What about of the feed pipe leaks when its downstairs and the machine(as they do every day)gets soaked, would that fry you?:rolleyes: I love the "who cares if you have insurance"bit-thats class. I've also written out method statements and procedural schedules for electrical installations that go a little beyond just where you can put a washing machine, and funnily enough, I do know what I'm talking about. So shout me down all you want, but I'm not wrong.:)

yoshytoshy

Solnskaya wrote: »

So shout me down all you want, but I'm not wrong.:)

I'm not unemployed.:rolleyes:

Micky Dolenz

Solnskaya wrote: »

The regs were recently revised to bring us in line with the UK, so, who exactly told me? I can actually quote you chapter and verse from the regs, I have to refer to them daily. There is absolutely no 3m requirement, so maybe it's not me who just likes to take guesses. No mention of the washing machine being totally water safe either Yoshy? What about of the feed pipe leaks when its downstairs and the machine(as they do every day)gets soaked, would that fry you?:rolleyes: I love the "who cares if you have insurance"bit-thats class. I've also written out method statements and procedural schedules for electrical installations that go a little beyond just where you can put a washing machine, and funnily enough, I do know what I'm talking about. So shout me down all you want, but I'm not wrong.:)

I would be interested in the quotes from the regs please.

mattjack

I,m just looking at an english 17th edition ...its saying zone three is no longer recognised

mattjack

sorry not recognised ..defined

Solnskaya

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I would be interested in the quotes from the regs please.

Mickey, I'd love to, but I'm an almost auld lad and I would have to go and get one of my kids to teach me a lot more about using a computer to do that-I'm usually stunned when I manage to quote someones post on here without making a mess of it! For a quick overview of the latest full regs without having to wade through page after page anybody interested can have a goo at wikipedia, its section on electricals in a bathroom is pretty up to date and is fairly concise. No idea how to link to the actual online regs tho. (i've a big book of them on my work desk but it won't fit down our fax machine.)
edit:Zone 3 was recently excluded from the SELV requirements because unlike in days gone by, we now have almost universal RCD protection.

mattjack

Solnskaya wrote: »

Mickey, I'd love to, but I'm an almost auld lad and I would have to go and get one of my kids to teach me a lot more about using a computer to do that-I'm usually stunned when I manage to quote someones post on here without making a mess of it! For a quick overview of the latest full regs without having to wade through page after page anybody interested can have a goo at wikipedia, its section on electricals in a bathroom is pretty up to date and is fairly concise. No idea how to link to the actual online regs tho. (i've a big book of them on my work desk but it won't fit down our fax machine.)
edit:Zone 3 was recently excluded from the SELV requirements because unlike in days gone by, we now have almost universal RCD protection.

I see what you are saying............greater than three metres from the edge of zones you are allowed normal skts protected by rcds

Micky Dolenz

Ok, fair enough.

So can we get the conclusive answer and then we'll all be on the same page.

DanWall

Solnskaya
In my experience, Zone 1, 2, & 3 refers to industrial hazardous areas for gas explosion risk, it hardly applies to a bathroom.
I am not familiar with domestic regulations, do they confuse things by using the same terminology for domestic use?

Personally, common sense tells me I would not put electrical equipment in the bathroom because the atmosphere can get very wet and cause the mains to track inside the appliance. The earth leakage trip is a belts and braces protection, you do not want an electric shock in the first place, especially from a metal washing machine.

mattjack

have a look at wikipedia..electrical wiring in bathrooms

Solnskaya

DanWall wrote: »

Solnskaya
In my experience, Zone 1, 2, & 3 refers to industrial hazardous areas for gas explosion risk, it hardly applies to a bathroom.
I am not familiar with domestic regulations, do they confuse things by using the same terminology for domestic use?

Hi Dan, yep, the industrial version of ZONE 1,2,3 is indeed different, the domestic regs break down the areas of a bathroom into zones 0-1-2-3, and there is a quite precise definition of these zones, the industrial version is more to do with explosive,corrosive and toxic gasses and the implementation of controls for these risks. Its just an overlap of terminology but they are unrelated. The actual regs pertaining to industrial electrical installations are far more stringent because they fall under the COHWP regs-the workplace being far more strictly controlled than domestic installations. Employers get very antsy when a socket is installed in an area of risk to the point now that in most of the pharma plants you will struggle to find a 13 amp 220V outlet, they are all 16 amp or 110v due to their higher safety rating. Edit-actually, if you want to do somthing dodgy, try installing a light switch INSIDE a bathroom-now thats lethal, I've actually seen a lot of domestic installations with the switch inside the bathroom door, and THAT IS a recipe for electrocuting someone. Light switches are waay more dangerous than socket outlets IMOHO

Joey the lips

Good morning folks. Interesting thread. I just have one issue thats of interest to me

Washing machine valves require mains pressure to open. You will not achieve that upstairs and if you tap into your mains in the attic(despite being allowed do this for an electric shower) you may not be covered by your insurence if you have a washing machine leak.

Additionally. Has anyone ever stayed in a house where a washing machine is mounted on a wooden floor...Not a prity site.

LLU

Joey the lips wrote: »

Good morning folks. Interesting thread. I just have one issue thats of interest to me

Washing machine valves require mains pressure to open. You will not achieve that upstairs and if you tap into your mains in the attic(despite being allowed do this for an electric shower) you may not be covered by your insurence if you have a washing machine leak.

Additionally. Has anyone ever stayed in a house where a washing machine is mounted on a wooden floor...Not a prity site.

interesting point alright. Although in a bungalow, the hot water valve will only have whatever pressure is delivered by the tank in the attic which is only one floor above. Or do washing machines even have a hot water input anymore?

Joey the lips

LLU wrote: »

interesting point alright. Although in a bungalow, the hot water valve will only have whatever pressure is delivered by the tank in the attic which is only one floor above. Or do washing machines even have a hot water input anymore?

Washing machines i am told only have one input now...Cold.

yoshytoshy

I like the way we went from ,anyone can install a washing machine in a bathroom because you can install a shower there to ,
the regs were changed lately and anyone with a certain RCD it's fine.

I've been in thousands of houses as I only work in domestic and I've never seen a light switch in a bathroom ,converted or otherwise.

Never seen a washing machine in a bathroom either ,nor would I install one in a bathroom. Would love to hear what an upstairs washing machine sounds like ,probably like an industrial work area :pac:

paddy147

Joey the lips wrote: »

Washing machines i am told only have one input now...Cold.

Yes,only 1 input,a cold mains input.

paddy147

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I like the way we went from ,anyone can install a washing machine in a bathroom because you can install a shower there to ,
the regs were changed lately and anyone with a certain RCD it's fine.

I've been in thousands of houses as I only work in domestic and I've never seen a light switch in a bathroom ,converted or otherwise.

Never seen a washing machine in a bathroom either ,nor would I install one in a bathroom. Would love to hear what an upstairs washing machine sounds like ,probably like an industrial work area :pac:

+1.

Not to mention the complete inpracticality of it,with regards going up and down the stairs all the time just to put the clothes out on the line to dry.