Electric Chair guy on the Oranmore Bypass

Berty

Every Thursday I work in the City and every Thursday I drive along the road between the Carowmoneash Roundabout(Maldron Hotel) and the Matin Roundabout(Galway Clinic)

and there is a guy driving this EVERY time in the hard shoulder doing no more than 15km/h



Anybody else think this is dangerous and/or stupid?

Yes I did eventually after seeing him 3 weeks in a row call the Gardai at Oranmore who asked ME what law he was breaking? :mad:

biko

Yes, what law is he breaking that made you ring the Gardai?
Or are you just guessing an electric chair isn't allowed on a road?
(it probably isn't but what law states it?)

Moved to Motors.

padi89

Beer Baron wrote: »

Yes I did eventually after seeing him 3 weeks in a row call the Gardai at Oranmore who asked ME what law he was breaking? :mad:

Well there is your answer.

Don't see the problem tbh would you do the same for a cyclist or pedestrian?

bijapos

He is perfectly entitled to be on the road, its not a motorway, the same law applies to pedestrians and cyclists. If its dark, it must be lit up, he does seem to have lights fitted to the vehicle. As to whether its dangerous thats another point, but its also up to other road users to be vigilant as to whats around them.

Incidentally when I read the thread title I thought of this:

As per the other posts, no law being broken, you can walk, jog and cycle on that road so why not use a wheelchair on it? It's no more stupid or dangerous than walking or cycling on it. Folks in mobility chairs are perfectly entitled to go about their business the same as everyone else is.

Big Nelly

Beer Baron wrote: »

Every Thursday I work in the City and every Thursday I drive along the road between the Carowmoneash Roundabout(Maldron Hotel) and the Matin Roundabout(Galway Clinic)

and there is a guy driving this EVERY time in the hard shoulder doing no more than 15km/h

Anybody else think this is dangerous and/or stupid?

Yes I did eventually after seeing him 3 weeks in a row call the Gardai at Oranmore who asked ME what law he was breaking? :mad:

He is on the hard shoulder! it is not a motorway! what is your problem?

Do you call the Garda when you see someone on a bike? or is the roads only meant for you and your car?

enda1

RoverJames wrote: »

As per the other posts, no law being broken, you can walk, jog and cycle on that road so why not use a wheelchair on it? It's no more stupid or dangerous than walking or cycling on it. Folks in mobility chairs are perfectly entitled to go about their business the same as everyone else is.

He was in the hard shoulder. That's the crime.

enda1

enda1 wrote: »

He was in the hard shoulder. That's the crime.

Ring the Gardai in Oranmore if you reckon that's the case.

bijapos

enda1 wrote: »

He was in the hard shoulder. That's the crime.

How the hell is it a crime to use the hard shoulder with a wheelchair?

bijapos

bijapos wrote: »

How the hell is it a crime to use the hard shoulder with a wheelchair?

Unless the Oranmore bypass is now a motorway it is most definitely not illegal, when I lived near Oranmore 18 months ago it wasn't a motorway.

Berty

For people to assume that because there is no law broken he can do what he likes irrespective of how dangerous or stupid it is is just incredible.

For the Gardai in Oranmore to fob off the question on the basis it breaks zero laws is also incredible and shows the neglect the person who answered the phone has in regard to road safety.

15km/h on a HQDC versus traffic doing 100km/h IS dangerous. Law or no law. I hate to think what would happen when he has to avoid an articulated lorry using the hard shoulder for its actual purpose.

ThisRegard

So are bikes also breaking the law by cycling on the hard shoulder ? You'd probably be the first person to say that's where they belong if you saw them on the main carriage way.

Iwannahurl

Does he have an alternative route or means of travelling to his destination?

Are there adequate footpaths, dished kerbs and safe/pedestrian-priority crossings?








.

Berty

ThisRegard wrote: »

So are bikes also breaking the law by cycling on the hard shoulder ? You'd probably be the first person to say that's where they belong if you saw them on the main carriage way.

Do you believe it is dangerous or not? That is the point of the OP.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Does he have an alternative route or means of travelling to his destination?

Are there adequate footpaths, dished kerbs and safe/pedestrian-priority crossings?
.

Yes he does have a perfectly safe alternative route. There are two roundabouts at either end of this Dual Carraigeway which are unsafe for a slow moving wheelchair/electric chair.

ThisRegard

Beer Baron wrote: »

Do you believe it is dangerous or not? That is the point of the OP.

No more dangerous than a cyclist being there. Would you have rang the gardai if it was a slow cyclist or someone on a trike that you saw ?

Iwannahurl

Beer Baron wrote: »

Do you believe it is dangerous or not? That is the point of the OP.

Yes he does have a perfectly safe alternative route. There are two roundabouts at either end of this Dual Carraigeway which are unsafe for a slow moving wheelchair/electric chair.

What is the perfectly safe alternative route?

sgthighway

I know they guy. He is a resident in Cheshire Homes in beside the Castlegar Hurling Complex. If he goes out the Coast Road and back in by the Dual Carriageway; that is about 5.5 miles. Sounds like a good distance for one of those chairs.

While I don't have a problem with him going on long trips I think if anybody thinks he is a danger to himself or others the Gardai should be informed. I will try and get word to his family and let them know.

Berty

ThisRegard wrote: »

While I don't have a problem with him going on long trips I think if anybody thinks he is a danger to himself or others the Gardai should be informed. I will try and get word to his family and let them know.

Hence the point of the thread. It is a danger to himself and other road users. He is NOT the same as a cyclist or a trike, he cannot react as fast and cannot negotiate the roundabouts safely.

If the Gardai fail to see him as a threat to his/others safety then I despair.

Iwannahurl

sgthighway wrote: »

I know they guy. He is a resident in Cheshire Homes in beside the Castlegar Hurling Complex. If he goes out the Coast Road and back in by the Dual Carriageway; that is about 5.5 miles. Sounds like a good distance for one of those chairs.

While I don't have a problem with him going on long trips I think if anybody thinks he is a danger to himself or others the Gardai should be informed. I will try and get word to his family and let them know.

So, he doesn't have a "perfectly safe alternative route" then?

How is this gentleman supposed to travel so?

Needler

Beer Baron wrote: »

15km/h on a HQDC versus traffic doing 100km/h IS dangerous. Law or no law. I hate to think what would happen when he has to avoid an articulated lorry using the hard shoulder for its actual purpose.

A Huck-Duck?

sentient_6

There's a old lady in a galway town i unfortunately have to call home that uses her motor driven wheelchair thing on the main road, cars, artics, all giving her a wide berth. This when there is a footpath as well. Maybe shes under the impression that the same as cyclist she's not supposed to go on them. I dunno, it's asking for trouble.

If this guy is on the hard shoulder what else he's supposed to do though? Does he stay well in to the left as much as possible? Maybe an luminus jacket & a few reflectors won't go astray, he's very dark in that photo. In broad daylight i mean even, someone pulling into the hard shoulder in a hurry mightn't see him.

Anan1

Beer Baron wrote: »

Hence the point of the thread. It is a danger to himself and other road users. He is NOT the same as a cyclist or a trike, he cannot react as fast and cannot negotiate the roundabouts safely.

If the Gardai fail to see him as a threat to his/others safety then I despair.

Given that he's pretty slow-moving, and is being constantly overtaken, isn't it more up to faster-moving traffic to react to him? I can see how he would slow traffic down on a roundabout, but i'm not seeing grounds for withdrawing his right to use it? To play devils advocate for a moment, if you're worried for his safety then why aren't you asking for a lowered speed limit on the road?

biko

Meh, I don't see an issue.
It's potentially dangerous but so is getting up in the morning, flying a plane and crossing the road to get to the other side.

Btw, photo is a stock photo it seems, not the actual guy.

Zubeneschamali

sentient_6 wrote: »

This when there is a footpath as well.

I've never had to use a wheelchair, but from years of pushing kids in buggies, I can tell you that the footpaths in Ireland are generally sh!te for anything on wheels.

Footpaths have cracks and holes, have steps without ramps (often forcing me to physically lift child and buggy), have poles, bins, postboxes and other street furniture making them too narrow to pass, and have a whole seperate thread's worth of obnoxiously parked cars blocking them.

[Edit] Special mention for the shopowners who stick big freestanding signs outside advertising special offers and blocking the fecking path!

sentient_6

biko wrote: »

Btw, photo is a stock photo it seems, not the actual guy.

Augh, :P, was thinking that didnt look like oranmore alright, english regs a bit of a give away!

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I've never had to use a wheelchair, but from years of pushing kids in buggies, I can tell you that the footpaths in Ireland are generally sh!te for anything on wheels.

Footpaths have cracks and holes, have steps without ramps (often forcing me to physically lift child and buggy), have poles, bins, postboxes and other street furniture making them too narrow to pass, and have a whole seperate thread's worth of obnoxiously parked cars blocking them.

Well i tell you for an absolute fact, the footpaths are in better condition that some of the sections of road where i'm on about. There is a good stretch about 2 k's long leading into the town with wide descent footpaths that no one parks on. I hear what your saying but in the instance i mentioned there is actually no reason for her to be on the road.

Cookie_Monster

I hope he's paying his road motor tax, there's a motor on that after all :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl

sentient_6 wrote: »

There's a old lady in a galway town i unfortunately have to call home that uses her motor driven wheelchair thing on the main road, cars, artics, all giving her a wide berth. This when there is a footpath as well. Maybe shes under the impression that the same as cyclist she's not supposed to go on them. I dunno, it's asking for trouble.

If this guy is on the hard shoulder what else he's supposed to do though? Does he stay well in to the left as much as possible? Maybe an luminus jacket & a few reflectors won't go astray, he's very dark in that photo. In broad daylight i mean even, someone pulling into the hard shoulder in a hurry mightn't see him.

Is there a continuous off-road route she can take, with dished kerbs where required at crossings etc?

Needler

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I hope he's paying his road motor tax, there's a motor on that after all :rolleyes:

and third party insurance. One of those yokes running into someone can cripple them for life

Iwannahurl

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I hope he's paying his road motor tax, there's a motor on that after all :rolleyes:

The lazy good-for-nothing sponger!

sentient_6

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is there a continuous off-road route she can take, with dished kerbs where required at crossings etc?

From about 2k' outside of town all the way in.

Iwannahurl

sentient_6 wrote: »

From about 2k' outside of town all the way in.

Gizza look on Google Maps...

Vertakill

bijapos wrote: »

How the hell is it a crime to use the hard shoulder with a wheelchair?

ThisRegard wrote: »

No more dangerous than a cyclist being there. Would you have rang the gardai if it was a slow cyclist or someone on a trike that you saw ?

It'd be illegal for a cyclist to be in the hard shoulder as well?

wikipedia wrote:

A hard shoulder, or simply shoulder, is a reserved area by the verge of a road or motorway. Generally it is kept clear of all traffic. In the event of an emergency or breakdown, a motorist can pull into the hard shoulder to get out of the flow of traffic and obtain an element of safety. A hard shoulder also allows some extra flexibility should a motorist need to take evasive action, as it is a buffer area between the main thoroughfare and the edge of the road.

Would be pretty messy having taken evasive action and running over a wheelchair user...


For the people who don't see a problem with it:
Would you also be ok to see joggers using the hard shoulder?

Technically, you're going the same speed. You'd also be fairly able bodied in the event a dangerous scenario occured... which is something a wheelchair stricken person clearly isn't.

justsomebloke

jsut thinking here but as this is technically a motorised vehicle using the road would it not need tax and insurance?

Cookie_Monster

As I cyclist I use hard shoulders purely for the convenience of other road users and my own safety. I should really be in the driving lane but that'd just slow everyone down and put me at more risk of being hit by a reckless over take or someone not paying attention. So common sense says use the hard should to keep out of everyone's way

Same situation with the elec chair I reckon.

sentient_6

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Gizza look on Google Maps...

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=ballinalsoe&hl=en&ll=53.328874,-8.189213&spn=0.008317,0.022724&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.328857,-8.189517&panoid=i63npcF-1QSd7HF_pI4FdA&cbp=12,247.95,,0,8.41

Starts on the left there behind the massive boot. :pac:

Mad thing is she comes from farther out of town & if you look behind you'll see its hard shoulder up to there, but she'll still be on the road!

bijapos

Vertakill wrote: »

It'd be illegal for a cyclist to be in the hard shoulder as well?

Would you also be ok to see joggers using the hard shoulder?

Its not illegal for a cyclist to use a hard shoulder, cyclists tend to avoid them on some roads beacause of the condition of the shoulder, potholes, debris etc.

It is also OK to walk/jog along the hard shoulder provided its not a motorway or otherwise restricted. There are loads of women out power walking all day on a hard shoulder on a stretch or road near where my father lives. I'd recommend a hi-viz though and they should walk facing oncoming traffic if possible. Its safer.

Cabaal

Beer Baron wrote: »

Every Thursday I work in the City and every Thursday I drive along the road between the Carowmoneash Roundabout(Maldron Hotel) and the Matin Roundabout(Galway Clinic)

and there is a guy driving this EVERY time in the hard shoulder doing no more than 15km/h



Anybody else think this is dangerous and/or stupid?

Yes I did eventually after seeing him 3 weeks in a row call the Gardai at Oranmore who asked ME what law he was breaking? :mad:

Curious, if it was somebody walking on the hard shoulder or cycling would you also be complaining?

He's in a wheel chair and in Ireland services and access is an issue for people in wheel chairs so cut him some slack he has things hard enough as it is without you trying to make things harder.

At the end of the day he's entitled to get around in his day to day life.

As for the Garda response to you, imho they just wanted you to go away and tbh I can't blame them as you were wasting their time.

coolbeans

It really wouldn't be fair or feasible to remove this guy from the road if pedestrians and cyclists are allowed to use it. Sure, practically it may be a little more dangerous for him given his slow reaction times but saying it's not OK for him exclusively encroaches on the rights of motorised wheelchair users and would relegate their road status relative to others; effectively curtailing their freedom to move.

Vertakill

bijapos wrote: »

Its not illegal for a cyclist to use a hard shoulder, cyclists tend to avoid them on some roads beacause of the condition of the shoulder, potholes, debris etc.

It is also OK to walk/jog along the hard shoulder provided its not a motorway or otherwise restricted. There are loads of women out power walking all day on a hard shoulder on a stretch or road near where my father lives. I'd recommend a hi-viz though and they should walk facing oncoming traffic if possible. Its safer.

It may be the safest option for this lad in his wheelchair, but it doesn't make it legal.

And I'm pretty sure cycling in the hard shoulder is illegal. It's not meant for traffic. It's meant for emergencies, emergency vehicles or breakdowns.

Zubeneschamali

Vertakill wrote: »

And I'm pretty sure cycling in the hard shoulder is illegal. It's not meant for traffic. It's meant for emergencies, emergency vehicles or breakdowns.

Rules of the Road (we know, it's not the law, blah blah):

A single broken yellow line along the side of the road: This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists.

coolbeans

Vertakill wrote: »

It may be the safest option for this lad in his wheelchair, but it doesn't make it legal.

And I'm pretty sure cycling in the hard shoulder is illegal. It's not meant for traffic. It's meant for emergencies, emergency vehicles or breakdowns.

Balderdash, cyclists are entitled by law to use the HS.

_Kaiser_

enda1 wrote: »

He was in the hard shoulder. That's the crime.

bijapos wrote: »

How the hell is it a crime to use the hard shoulder with a wheelchair?

ThisRegard wrote: »

So are bikes also breaking the law by cycling on the hard shoulder ? You'd probably be the first person to say that's where they belong if you saw them on the main carriage way.

Technically speaking Enda is correct, as it's an offence to DRIVE along in the hard shoulder of a R/N road (as opposed to moving into it briefly to allow faster traffic to pass.. yes, yes I know a lot of people here get confused with this one! )

On that basis then no, he shouldn't be in the hard shoulder - he should be in the driving lane! :eek:

coolbeans

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Technically speaking Enda is correct, as it's an offence to DRIVE along in the hard shoulder of a R/N road (as opposed to moving into it briefly to allow faster traffic to pass.. yes, yes I know a lot of people here get confused with this one! )

On that basis then no, he shouldn't be in the hard shoulder - he should be in the driving lane! :eek:

Nope, cyclists and pedestrians are entitled to use the HS.

ThisRegard

Vertakill wrote: »

For the people who don't see a problem with it:
Would you also be ok to see joggers using the hard shoulder?

You see it all over the country, and worse. Remember we're not talking about a motorway here. For those who seldom venture out of Dublin how do you expect locals to get around when not in a car or bus, there's no footpaths in vast swathes of the country and you'd be lucky to have a road wide enough to fit two cars side by side, never mind the safety of a hard shoulder to walk on.

_Kaiser_

coolbeans wrote: »

Nope, cyclists and pedestrians are entitled to use the HS.

Ah but he's neither of these - he's in a "mechanically propelled vehicle". The closest analogy would be a motorbike or a tractor surely, and while the latter do tend to rumble along in the HS a lot (which is convenient to other road users), technically speaking they should be moving in and out as cars pass..

dirtydiesel

That guy is zooming in and out of town totally unaware that his movements are been discussed on boards today, would be nice if someone who knows him spoke to him to get his side of the story.
I say fair play to him, that machine is is independce and I guess he would be lost without it.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

.........
At the end of the day he's entitled to get around in his day to day life.

As for the Garda response to you, imho they just wanted you to go away and tbh I can't blame them as you were wasting their time.

Indeed.

coolbeans

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ah but he's neither of these - he's in a "mechanically propelled vehicle". The closest analogy would be a motorbike or a tractor surely, and while the latter do tend to rumble along in the HS a lot (which is convenient to other road users), technically speaking they should be moving in and out as cars pass..

I am guessing that the law would view the vehicle as a wheelchair rather than a mech propelled vehicle.

Zubeneschamali

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ah but he's neither of these - he's in a "mechanically propelled vehicle".

The rules on cycle tracks say motorised wheelchairs can use them:

"A mandatory cycle track is bordered by a continuous white line on the righthand side. It is only for bicycles and motorised wheelchairs, so no other drivers may use it or park in it."

Needler

I wonder what Joe Duffy would have to say about this

Cookie_Monster

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

"A mandatory cycle track is bordered by a continuous white line on the righthand side. It is only for bicycles and motorised wheelchairs, so no other drivers may use it or park in it."

lol, if only...