Mother-in-law from hell??

Sala

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23965571-in-the-white-corner-the-bride-in-the-pink-the-mother-in-law-from-hell.do

The last thing any bride-to-be wants is to fall foul of her future mother-in-law - particularly when her damning criticism of your behaviour goes viral on the internet.

But that is what has happened to Heidi Withers, a PA working in the West End.

She received an email last month from Carolyn Bourne, the stepmother of her fiancé Freddie Bourne.

The 29-year-old forwarded the message to a select group of friends who were so surprised by its tone that they too forwarded it on to others...and then on to thousands.

Mrs Bourne, 60, who is married to Freddie's father Edward, wrote: "It is high time someone explained to you about good manners. Yours are obvious by their absence and I feel sorry for you."

She went on: "Unfortunately for Freddie, he has fallen in love with you and Freddie being Freddie, I gather it is not easy to reason with him or yet encourage him to consider how he might be able to help you. It may just be possible to get through to you though. I do hope so. Your behaviour on your visit to Devon during April was staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace.

"Unfortunately, this was not the first example of bad manners I have experienced from you. If you want to be accepted by the wider Bourne family I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste."
She even described her future daughter-in-law as "an ideal candidate for the Ladette to Lady television series".
Mrs Bourne, who lives near Dawlish in Devon and is a renowned breeder of pinks and dianthus flowers, went on to list numerous examples of Miss Withers's "lack of manners" - as detailed below.
She concluded by saying: "I pity Freddie."

Her stepson, who runs online bike shop Capital Cycles and lives in Putney, declined to comment. His father Edward Bourne, 63, said: "We have nothing to say."

Miss Withers and Mr Bourne are not the first to suffer acute embarrassment because of out-of-control email round robins. A derogatory email exchange between Harry Fildes, 25, and Sebastian Marsh, 24, about the latter's ex-girlfriend "went viral" in March after Mr Fildes accidentally copied her in. Mr Marsh was later sacked by his company, Miller Insurance.
Holly Leam-Taylor, a graduate trainee at consultants Deloitte quit in December 2009 after sending an email discussing attractive male staff. The email, entitled Deloitte First year analysts Christmas Awards, asked her female colleagues to vote on which men in the office they considered most attractive.
The nine categories included "boy most likely to sleep his way to the top".

An excerpt from their email exchange...

from: Carolyn Bourne
to: heidi withers

subject: your lack of manners
Here are a few examples of your lack of manners:

When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something.

You do not remark that you do not have enough food.

You do not start before everyone else.

You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms.

You should never ever insult the family you are about to join at any time and most definitely not in public. I gather you passed this off as a joke but the reaction in the pub was one of shock, not laughter.

You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why. No one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity style behaviour.

I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved over the years for their daughters' marriages.)

If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding as befits both your incomes.

One could be accused of thinking that Heidi Withers must be patting herself on the back for having caught a most eligible young man. I pity Freddie.

Biggins

The full email:

It is high time someone explained to you about good manners. Yours are obvious by their absence and I feel sorry for you.

I am being kept awake - or woken early - by Edward [Freddie's father] who is so profoundly upset by your behaviour on your recent visit that he is depressed and anxious.

Unfortunately for Freddie, he has fallen in love with you and Freddie being Freddie, I gather it is not easy to reason with him or yet encourage him to consider how he might be able to help you. It may just be possible to get through to you though. I do hope so. Your behaviour on your visit to Devon during April was staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace. Unfortunately, this was not the first example of bad manners I have experienced from you. If you want to be accepted by the wider Bourne family I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste. There are plenty of finishing schools around. You would be an ideal candidate for the Ladette to Lady television series. Please, for your own good, for Freddie's sake and for your future involvement with the Bourne family, do something as soon as possible.

Here are a few examples of your lack of manners:

When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something.

You do not remark that you do not have enough food.

You do not start before everyone else.

You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms.

You should never ever insult the family you are about to join at any time and most definitely not in public. I gather you passed this off as a joke but the reaction in the pub was one of shock, not laughter.

I have no idea whether you wrote to thank [your future sister-in-law] for the weekend but you should have hand-written a card to her.

You should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed at Houndspool.

[Your future sister-in-law] has quite the most exquisite manners of anyone I have ever come across. You would do well to follow her example.

You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.

It is tragic that you have diabetes. However, you aren't the only young person in the world who is a diabetic. I know quite a few young people who have this condition, one of whom is getting married in June. I have never heard her discuss her condition. She quietly gets on with it. She doesn't like being diabetic. Who would? You do not need to regale everyone with the details of your condition or use it as an excuse to draw attention to yourself. It is vulgar.

As a diabetic of long standing you must be acutely aware of the need to prepare yourself for extraordinary eventualities, the walk to Mothecombe beach being an example. You are experienced enough to have prepared yourself appropriately.

No-one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity style behaviour.

I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved over the years for their daughters' marriages.) If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding as befits both your incomes.

One could be accused of thinking that Carolyn must be patting herself on the back for having caught a most eligible young man. I pity Freddie.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009518/Bride-left-red-faced-email-criticising-future-mother-law-goes-viral.html#ixzz1Qk9yFPnm

I think the mother in law from hell, better go into hiding for a while.
If I was the parent of the girl she had a go at, I'd want to knock her off her feet too.
The insult about the money is not very nice either, towards the girls parents!

Edited to include Full version.

Seachmall

Stepmother sounds like a stuck up bitch (although she's right about having the wedding to fit their income).

Biggins

Seachmall wrote: »

Stepmother sounds like a stuck up bitch (although she's right about having the wedding to fit their income).

Who says they didn't have one to suit their income in fairness.
Its only the dragons opinion that we have, her saying it was too big.
If that was my mother in law, I'd be telling her bugger all about my finances too!

The real loser here is Freddie. He's stuck right in the middle of this mess.

The mother in law in some respects, seems to be living in the past about 'conventions'.

Happyzebra

OMG!!! I too have a MlL from hell. Thank God she can't work the internet!

Can't get link to work ... Fault is probably on my end though.

When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something.

You do not remark that you do not have enough food.

You do not start before everyone else.

You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms.

You should never ever insult the family you are about to join at any time and most definitely not in public. I gather you passed this off as a joke but the reaction in the pub was one of shock, not laughter.

She kinda has a point with these

Biggins

bluewolf wrote: »

She kinda has a point with these

I agree with all of your points except one.

"You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host."

If I invite someone around, I hope they will help themselves.
Tuck in, dive in and enjoy... Thats whats its there for.

Seachmall

bluewolf wrote: »

She kinda has a point with these

When people are staying in my house I don't act like king of the castle, I want them to feel at home not abide by some out dated BS conventions.

Seachmall

Seachmall wrote: »

When people are staying in my house I don't act like king of the castle, I want them to feel at home not abide by some out dated BS conventions.

I don't either, I think the mil was very rude in turn sending an email like that, so there's a pair of them in it.

jimthemental

I would love to be at one of her dinner parties with a crate of Stella, she thinks this young one is bad? I'd put her to shame.

Seachmall

jimthemental wrote: »

I would love to be at one of her dinner parties with a crate of Stella, she thinks this young one is bad? I'd put her to shame.

Sure we'll all pop over with a few cans of Dutch, I'd say she's fairly mental with a few scoops in her.

myflipflops

I'm just amazed this is considered news!!

A stuck up woman openly disliking her sons fiancee should not be a story in a national newspaper.

Pherekydes

Seachmall wrote: »

When people are staying in my house I don't act like king of the castle, I want them to feel at home not abide by some out dated BS conventions.

People have differing opinions on how visitors should act in their homes.

I would make myself at home in someone else's home only when invited to do so. I'd have thought that was basic manners.

who the fug

Since when have good manners become out dated BS conventions, I didn't get that memo.

cbyrne11

Biggins wrote: »

Who says they didn't have one to suit their income in fairness.
Its only the dragons opinion that we have, her saying it was too big.
If that was my mother in law, I'd be telling her bugger all about my finances too!

The real loser here is Freddie. He's stuck right in the middle of this mess.

The mother in law in some respects, seems to be living in the past about 'conventions'.

I could be wrong but maybe talking about the finances of another family and being critical of there failure to save for their Daughters wedding, I also presume she hasn't met them is ruder than any of the things that she claims the future daughter in law did! She's probably gutted that she isn't getting the fact that her views are from the 1800's!

Hate this social ethiquete stuff, my favourite complaint "I can't believe you didn't write to say thank you for staying" I'm sure the girl said it to her when she was leaving!

If my gf's family were like this I'd have got a few of these emails and ran a mile years ago!

Fratton Fred

Seachmall wrote: »

When people are staying in my house I don't act like king of the castle, I want them to feel at home not abide by some out dated BS conventions.

Same here, but I wouldn't expect guests to take the piss either.

MiL sounds like a Hyacinth Bucket type to be honest, but she does make a few reasonable points, though her delivery leaves a lot to be desired.

Sounds like her stepson is marrying a chavette.

Tipsy McSwagger

The Bourne Ultimatum:D

Biggins

Fratton Fred wrote: »

...Sounds like her stepson is marrying a chavette.

As a person that's been married twice, NEVER under-estimate a mother in law (or any other relative) who can see only what they want to see - and pass off as fact!

The mother in laws opinion/view might not be necessarily accurate or fully honest.

jester77

The best mans speech should be legendary.... he has some quality material to work with!

NomdePlume

Reminds me of Marney's Thanksgiving email.

The comment on the bride's parents not saving money was out of line, as well as "I pity Freddie", but otherwise she actually seems strict but fair(ish).

If it's a case of simply following a strict code of etiquette around the MIL, that doesn't seem so bad. It'd be far worse if she was one of those manipulative, passive-aggressive types -- who will let you know you've done something wrong, but won't tell you what, etc. At least this MIL is very direct in saying what she deems 'wrong'.

Fratton Fred

Biggins wrote: »

As a person that's been married twice, NEVER under-estimate a mother in law (or any other relative) who can see only what they want to see - and pass off as fact!

The mother in laws opinion/view might not be necessarily accurate or fully honest.

I've been married twice and both MiL thought the sun shone out of my Yaras.

They can be easy to deceive!

Biggins

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I've been married twice and both MiL thought the sun shone out of my Yaras.

They can be easy to deceive!

Thank gawd sometimes! :pac:

P.S. Your not Daniel O' Donnell are you?

MitchKoobski

You should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed.

I can't remember the last session I was at where I left a hand-written card in the morning.

Seachmall

Pherekydes wrote: »

People have differing opinions on how visitors should act in their homes.

I would make myself at home in someone else's home only when invited to do so. I'd have thought that was basic manners.

I appreciate that but I don't think arbitrary guidelines are a display of respect. Expecting someone to follow these rules just makes them feel awkward and unwelcome. Respect is shown through natural conversation and how they act whilst comfortable, anything else is pretentiousness in my opinion.

If you don't want people to feel at home don't invite them over, if you want someone to jump through hoops to show how grateful they are that you even let their humble selves into your manor by a dog and train it.

How Strange

Ok she's obviously a complete b1tch but she has a point regarding the sleeping in late, big wedding they can't afford (if it's true), insulting the family, saying what she would and wouldn't eat although you'd have to know the context of both and not sending a thank you card. In that situation I'd get up with everyone else and I'd always send a thankyou card. I'd also always eat anything that was served up to me in someone else's house even if I hated it. I hate pork but I've eaten it if I'm invited to dinner and it's on the menu. The same with pasta or cream in hot food which make me feel ill.

While she has a point surely her pointing it out in a mail shows a lack of manners on her part as a hostess.

Not the best start to their lives together. I'd imagine relations will be even more frosty since the email went viral and ended up in the newspapers.

Seachmall

Seachmall wrote: »

I appreciate that but I don't think arbitrary guidelines are a display of respect. Expecting someone to follow these rules just makes them feel awkward and unwelcome. Respect is shown through natural conversation and how they act whilst comfortable, anything else is pretentiousness in my opinion.

I think a lot of what she said was basic manners though.
The thank you card might be pushing it, I'd bring a gift with me instead as a thank you in advance

Apanachi

Biggins wrote: »

NEVER under-estimate a mother in law (or any other relative) who can see only what they want to see - and pass off as fact!

The mother in laws opinion/view might not be necessarily accurate or fully honest.

Have to agree there, my ex's mother (thankfully she never actually became my MiL - I ran before that could happen) was such a b**** she thinks the sun shines out of her son's behind, he can do absolutely nothing wrong in her eyes and she just cannot see him for the total w***** he is. My then almost Father-In-Law is more objective, he seems to be the only person in the family who actually sees what he is really like.

Thank God I copped on and left before it came to marriage, that woman would really have been a MiL from Hell

Biggins

How Strange wrote: »

...I'd imagine relations will be even more frosty since the email went viral and ended up in the newspapers.

I'd say any future family meet-ups are going to be quite eventful! :pac:

Seachmall

bluewolf wrote: »

I think a lot of what she said was basic manners though.

Basic manners from an older generation imo.

I get what you're saying, I do, but I'd feel much better if people were themselves in my house. I'd see that as a greater sign of respect than them following convention for the sake of it.

Of course I'd probably adhere by them in another person's house but if they didn't in my house I'd much prefer it. (And I'm sure the host of the other person's house would prefer I just relaxed).

Even if you expect these as manners sending them an email (particularly one written like this) is a clear sign of "I don't like you and here are my nit-picks and rationalizations as to why, but in reality I just don't think you're good enough for my son".

How Strange

^^ my past experiences of future in laws is the mother is a b1tch to the girlfriends and the dads are lovely and try very hard to compensate for the mothers bitchiness. Thankfully both my in laws are lovely!

Kevin Duffy

I wonder who made the STEPmother the arbiter of good behaviour and taste and defender of her STEPson's marriage standards, or gave her the right to mail anyone to look down her nose at them? Stuck up old bag.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Seachmall wrote: »

Basic manners from an older generation imo.

I get what you're saying, I do, but I'd feel much better if people were themselves in my house. I'd see that as a greater sign of respect than them following convention for the sake of it.

There is a limit to both sides though.

You would hardly appreciate if you cooked a meal for a guest only for them to announce that they don't like it.
Nor would you insult your hosts (as claimed). They're just simple signs of respect tbh

A hand written card is defo going too far though. And I'm not so sure about additional helping being a problem either

Seachmall

Seachmall wrote: »

Basic manners from an older generation imo.

I get what you're saying, I do, but I'd feel much better if people were themselves in my house. I'd see that as a greater sign of respect than them following convention for the sake of it.

Of course I'd probably adhere by them in another person's house but if they didn't in my house I'd much prefer it. (And I'm sure the host of the other person's house would prefer I just relaxed).

Oh yes, as a host you can say "make yourself comfortable", and I think we would all prefer that, but when you are the guest you need to follow their lead.

Even if you expect these as manners sending them an email (particularly one written like this) is a clear sign of "I don't like you and here are my nit-picks and rationalizations as to why, but in reality I don't think you're good enough for my son".

Already agreed for definite there!!

cbyrne11

Is it not contradictory to say that one must not criticise the family your about to join and then go on to criticise her family for not having saved for her wedding!

This finishing school and ethiquette crap is absolute rubbish, more just a way of deceiving people, underneath it all she could be a horrible person but noone would know, rather the girl be herself and it this is the worst that she does, then well done freddie, chances are if she went to one of these finishing schools then she's a gold digger!

who the fug

Seachmall wrote: »

Basic manners from an older generation imo.

I get what you're saying, I do, but I'd feel much better if people were themselves in my house. I'd see that as a greater sign of respect than them following convention for the sake of it.

Of course I'd probably adhere by them in another person's house but if they didn't in my house I'd much prefer it.

So somebody comes in to thine house gives you a list of things they won't eat, treats you like a domestic and the house like a hotel is a sign of respect.

Fratton Fred

Seachmall wrote: »

Basic manners from an older generation imo.

I get what you're saying, I do, but I'd feel much better if people were themselves in my house. I'd see that as a greater sign of respect than them following convention for the sake of it.

Of course I'd probably adhere by them in another person's house but if they didn't in my house I'd much prefer it. (And I'm sure the host of the other person's house would prefer I just relaxed).

Even if you expect these as manners sending them an email (particularly one written like this) is a clear sign of "I don't like you and here are my nit-picks and rationalizations as to why, but in reality I just don't think you're good enough for my son".

How far do you go though?

If a friends boyfriend was invited to dinner and the first thing he did was let out a dirty Guinness fart, scratch his nads and light a cigarette would you write that off as him just being himself?

When you are a guest you should show a certain degree of manners.

who the fug

cbyrne11 wrote: »

Is it not contradictory to say that one must not criticise the family your about to join and then go on to criticise her family for not having saved for her wedding!

This finishing school and ethiquette crap is absolute rubbish, more just a way of deceiving people, underneath it all she could be a horrible person but noone would know, rather the girl be herself and it this is the worst that she does, then well done freddie, chances are if she went to one of these finishing schools then she's a gold digger!

The MIL has gone too far, but basic manners are not crap they keep society moving, and it is amazing what a basic Please and Thank You (Not have a nice day) will achieve

who the fug

who the fug wrote: »

The MIL has gone too far, but basic manners are not crap they keep society moving, and it is amazing what a basic Please and Thank You (Not have a nice day) will achieve

Walks off into the sunset, trying to figure out when I became my father

Seachmall

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

You would hardly appreciate if you cooked a meal for a guest only for them to announce that they don't like it.

True, but if I knew they didn't like it I think it would be a bit ridiculous for them to eat it just to please me.

Nor would you insult your hosts (as claimed).

Ya, that one I'm a bit unsure about. The rest read a bit like "mountains out of molehills" but I'd love to hear what the insult was (possibly just bad humour).

It sounds to me like the DIL is quite relaxed in the house and the MIL doesn't like it (because she just doesn't like the DIL and so nit-picks everything).

cbyrne11

who the fug wrote: »

Walks off into the sunset, trying to figure out when I became my father

Ha love it, agree with you on manners, but just think that the last few lines of the mail and the tone of it in general, means that you can discount anything that was written by the mother in law before hand, and frankly think the mother in law could do with heeding some of her own advice!

Wonder if Paddy Power will take bets on this wedding not happening, don't think the odds would be worth it!

Sanjuro

Blast her with... kindness. It'll melt her heart and everyone will be happy

omahaid

How did this email manage to get circulated? Hardly great manners to forward on private emails.

Seachmall

who the fug wrote: »

So somebody comes in to thine house gives you a list of things they won't eat, treats you like a domestic and the house like a hotel is a sign of respect.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How far do you go though?

If a friends boyfriend was invited to dinner and the first thing he did was let out a dirty Guinness fart, scratch his nads and light a cigarette would you write that off as him just being himself?

When you are a guest you should show a certain degree of manners.

They are signs of lack of respect, my point is you can't tell if someone respects you just because they jump through hoops because that's their defacto reaction. It's not respect, it's robotic.

stovelid

Parent-in-laws can never get in your head like your own do.

Just take her aside and threaten to turn the grandchildren against her if you don;t get silence, your fry-up and lie-in.

I love my Mother-in-Law by the way. She constantly disapprovingly questions my wife to see if she is doing enough home baking for me.

katiebelle

Just because this is the MIL does things it does not make them the right way to do things. I have to be honest and say my mother spent a lot of time bating manners like that into us when we were growing up and I was very reserved when I first met my soon to be MIL . I waited to be invited and asked to do stuff. This absolutely did my MIL's head in. She could not understand why I would want to be so formal within a family setting. It frankly made everyone very uncomfortable. Its each to their own there is no right way of doing things unless you are a complete animal. My MIL hated throughout my marriage to her son and the best thing about divorce was never having to have contact with her EVER again woo hoo.

cbyrne11

Email was forwarded to a few friends who then sent it on, and the internet did the rest of the work, she probably is a little bit of a chav but what can you do!

The MIL sounds like an absolute b*tch. Any point she had about the girl not having great manners has been overshadowed by her nasty, poisonous e-mail. What on earth was she thinking? I'd be willing to bet she just doesn't like her girl and finds any excuse to have a go at her. Imagine being invited to someone's house and they spend the entire time hovering over you, making a list of reasons why you're ill mannered. It actually reminds me of the time I worked as a nanny in Spain and the woman I worked for was constantly telling me how rude and unfriendly I was (I'm neither) while being oblivious to the fact that pointing out someone else's flaws and making them uncomfortable is the height of rudeness in itself.

There is a longer version of the e-mail in which she refers to the bride-to-be as a diabetic. That's what makes all the criticism about asking for more/different food unforgivable. She's a fecking diabetic! She can't just eat what's put in front of her. This could also explain most of the other things, like staying in bed longer than usual or even being a bit crabby. But instead of being accommodating like a normal person, the MIL just uses it to take another dig at her, accusing her of wanting attention. What a vile woman.

Orando Broom

The MiL is just another trumped up Hyacinth Bucket who hoped her son would marry above himself so that she could vicariously live at a higher social strata than she already does.

My oul fella would describe that woman as a fly that rose from the shíte.

However, she may have a point about the boor of a DiL, however true manners would be to sit down and have a face to face with the girl if her behaviour is so offensive.

curlzy

Lucca Cold Smallpox wrote: »

There is a longer version of the e-mail in which she refers to the bride-to-be as a diabetic. That's what makes all the criticism about asking for more/different food unforgivable. She's a fecking diabetic! She can't just eat what's put in front of her. This could also explain most of the other things, like staying in bed longer than usual or even being a bit crabby. But instead of being accommodating like a normal person, the MIL just uses it to take another dig at her, accusing her of wanting attention. What a vile woman.

Please post a link!!! Hilarious stuff altogether! God help the DIL, she's marrying into the bucket family!!!

Biggins

curlzy wrote: »

Please post a link!!!

Post two.

The MIL refers that unless you have dietary requirements especially, you don't give food orders as such.
(She has a point on that to be fair)

ejmaztec

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I wonder who made the STEPmother the arbiter of good behaviour and taste and defender of her STEPson's marriage standards, or gave her the right to mail anyone to look down her nose at them? Stuck up old bag.

I wonder what the step-mother did to his birth-mother? She probably sent her packing as well, or worse:eek:

Some potential mothers-in-law prefer the direct approach. A friend of mine and his girlfriend of a few weeks were invited to dinner by his parents. An hour after they sat down for the meal, his mother looked the girlfriend dead in the eye and said "I don't like you."

After that girlfriend bit the dust soon afterwards, my friend told me that he would tell the next one that his parents were dead.:(