institute of education good for repeating or waste of 10 grand?

jenny18

planning to repeat next year and wondering if leeson streets worth the money worked out with accommodation school etc about 15,000 and want to know if its worth it? planning to do medicine got 179 in hpat.

spurious

15000 :eek: of someone's money is a hell of a lot of motivation.

At the end of the day it's up to you to do the work.

partyatmygaff

You can go to the world's most expensive school if you want but it won't make a bit of difference if you don't do any work yourself. Just keep that in mind.

Sunny!!

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You can go to the world's most expensive school if you want but it won't make a bit of difference if you don't do any work yourself. Just keep that in mind.

this is probarly the the most important respnse youll get here.

._.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You can go to the world's most expensive school if you want but it won't make a bit of difference if you don't do any work yourself. Just keep that in mind.

Obviously she's planning on doing the work if she's looking for medicine :rolleyes:

Having gone to a grind school myself (and from knowing people in IOE), I'd say that going there would be the best advantage you could give yourself. Great teachers, great notes, and the study hall is excellent. The free classes you get during the day make all the difference.

Sunny!!

._. wrote: »

Obviously she's planning on doing the work if she's looking for medicine :rolleyes:

Having gone to a grind school myself (and from knowing people in IOE), I'd say that going there would be the best advantage you could give yourself. Great teachers, great notes, and the study hall is excellent. The free classes you get during the day make all the difference.

oh damn haha didnt see she was applying for med:) id say go for it it will give you the best shot!!

randylonghorn

._. wrote: »

Obviously she's planning on doing the work if she's looking for medicine :rolleyes:

Not in any way aiming this at the OP, but you do meet people who think that because they go somewhere like the IoE and pay through the nose to do so, the knowledge will automagically filter into their brains without their having to exert themselves unduly.





That's a *hell* of a lot of money for your parents to find, OP, before they even tackle the costs of putting you through college.

Are there no good schools locally where you could repeat?

medsc

It was the best decision I ever made, I would highly recommend it! It is definately worth the money. I would even dare say that you're better off not repeating if you don't go there (but I might really get attacked for this comment :pac:)

LilMissCiara

To be honest, if you're able for medicine (ie. hardworking, dedicated etc.) then you should be capable of achieving the points anywhere. €15000 is a shocking amount of money and I would imagine that it would be much better spent on grinds, night study etc.

I know most cities/towns have places that offer evening and night study until around 9pm. (eg. The Galway Study Centre).

I would repeat locally if I were you, especially as you say you'd need accommodation. Another option is a grinds school nearer to you where you could commute daily (Yeats, Bruce etc.)

partyatmygaff

._. wrote: »

Obviously she's planning on doing the work if she's looking for medicine :rolleyes:

Why is it obvious? A lot of people seem to think that grind schools give their students magical notes that will somehow grant them effortless A1s across the board.

I had grinds this year in the IOE. The teachers are great and notes are indeed very good but it's a waste of both time and money if you don't work. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who went to the classes without their notes or just sat there and did nothing or played around with their phones e.t.c. I'd say it'd be a great place to repeat but paying €15,000 for it without being completely focused on your studies is a bad idea. I'm not saying the OP won't work hard but i'm warning them that simply paying €15,000 and going to a great school alone won't get them very far.

gaeilgegrinds1

My husband did medicine many years ago...in a community college...his brother got in last year...from a community college...I think sometimes people think they will automatically do better. 15000 will go along way once you start medicine as many students have huge loans at the end of it. I think, as a teacher, most students I've had who did medicine were well capable of getting those points on their own, teachers/notes/anything else don't really come into it as they're usually so driven.

gaeilgegrinds1

And obviously he didn't actually do medicine in the college, reads a bit like that, just got the points in one!

MagicMarker

Ridiculous amount of money and you'd be an absolute fool to piss away 10k.

If you don't have the intelligence, grit and determination to get enough points by going to a run of the mill school, then medicine isn't for you.

Sunny!!

id look around 2 10000 is a bit much. Other grind schools as im aware charge 3000 or 4000 less than that. You must be paying for the name of IOE.:P

Bbbbolger

I get that they have great teachers and notes etc. but I have a theory on the Institute. People that go there would tend to be driven. They're repeating and there's a lot of money being put into a year that they could have spent in a local school. Perhaps it's the fact that these students are so driven to succeed that they get such good results. Also take into account that a good amount of Institute students are already aiming for high points courses so they're probably naturally intelligent. I really dont think spending €15,000 is necessary. I didnt have a great Geography this year so I learned to work more independently and I'm now hoping for a good result. If you learn to work on your own you could do a brilliant Leaving Cert without having to spent thousands of your family's hard earned cash.

Why are people ****ting on about effort? The OP never once said anything about not putting in the required effort.

The question is: putting the maximum amount of effort in, would the OP do better in the Institute and if so is it worth the 15000?

Naikon

AdamD wrote: »

Why are people ****ting on about effort? The OP never once said anything about not putting in the required effort.

The question is: putting the maximum amount of effort in, would the OP do better in the Institute and if so is it worth the 15000?

They aren't so much about "Education" as they are about teaching you shortcuts to sidehand the Leaving Cert. If you want an Education, go anywhere but there. VERY grey area imo.

Fad

Naikon wrote: »

They aren't so much about "Education" as they are about teaching you shortcuts to sidehand the Leaving Cert. If you want an Education, go anywhere but there. VERY grey area imo.

To be fair, if you're finished your leaving cert and you have to repeat, you're probably going to be done with "Education" and just want to play the game...

spurious

AdamD wrote: »

Why are people ****ting on about effort? The OP never once said anything about not putting in the required effort.

The question is: putting the maximum amount of effort in, would the OP do better in the Institute and if so is it worth the 15000?

If that is the question, the answer is no, she would be wasting the money.

There is nothing special about the IOE and its ilk, except perhaps that it has classes full of people whose families have paid large amounts of money for them to be there. This tends to concentrate the mind. If the mind can be concentrated that much, it can be concentrated from anywhere.

Naikon

Fad wrote: »

To be fair, if you're finished your leaving cert and you have to repeat, you're probably going to be done with "Education" and just want to play the game...

Oh, the irony:P

"Institute of short cuts" tbh. They don't exactly try to hide this. Maybe they chose that name for the lulz. I have far more respect for a teacher that helps disadvantaged kids, over the ones that teach only to gloat about how many A1 students they nabbed.

randylonghorn

Naikon wrote: »

Oh, the irony:P

"Institute of short cuts" tbh. They don't exactly try to hide this. Maybe they chose that name for the lulz. I have far more respect for a teacher that helps disadvantaged kids, over the ones that teach only to gloat about how many A1 students they nabbed.

In fairness, I think most teachers teach to earn a living primarily, and luckily, many of them are genuinely interested in and committed to the job they do.

Though personally, I do know where you're coming from ... I too have tremendous respect for those teachers who go the extra mile working with children and young people who don't enjoy all the advantages which some of their peers seem to take for granted these days.

However, this thread isn't about any of those issues; it's a simple request for advice from someone who intends to repeat her LC with a view to maximising her points as she wants to do medicine.

If you wish to start a more general thread to discuss the current culture of the points race, grind schools, etc., please do. You might find a fair few willing to discuss it with you.

Please remember though that this forum expects a calmer, more civil and discursive tone than some others you may be used to.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

If that is the question, the answer is no, she would be wasting the money.

There is nothing special about the IOE and its ilk, except perhaps that it has classes full of people whose families have paid large amounts of money for them to be there. This tends to concentrate the mind. If the mind can be concentrated that much, it can be concentrated from anywhere.

Would you not agree that they have a better standard of teachers/notes etc than your standard school?

spurious

AdamD wrote: »

Would you not agree that they have a better standard of teachers/notes etc than your standard school?

No I would not.

partyatmygaff

AdamD wrote: »

The question is: putting the maximum amount of effort in, would the OP do better in the Institute and if so is it worth the 15000?

They may do better as the quality of teaching in the Institute is quite good but it's not €15,000 good.

Naikon wrote: »

They aren't so much about "Education" as they are about teaching you shortcuts to sidehand the Leaving Cert. If you want an Education, go anywhere but there. VERY grey area imo.

Have you ever actually been to the institute? I attended Saturday grinds there for French and Maths throughout the year and I found it to be excellent. I did have a look at the English and Chemistry notes though and at least for those two subjects i'd have to agree with you. The notes seemed to focus more on sample answers and worked exam questions rather than actual learning.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

No I would not.

That is very surprising tbh, have you been there? Never have myself but all my mates who went there said it was brilliant

Sunny!!

spurious wrote: »

No I would not.

this is only my opinion but i believe the notes and teachers are alot better than your normal school. I wont go into it. Maybe must public school are great, but from my experience and the others i know its not the case unfortunately

randylonghorn

I think the core of the argument here may be about the word "better", and spurious and I may have a different opinion from you two on that one (that's permissible, btw! :P)

Grinds schools in general are focused solely on exams / results / points. And unfortunately these days you have been socialised into believing that that is the be all and end all of education. It's not. It's important ofc, but it's only part of what an education should be about.

That's one issue.

The other is this: yes, the IoE and so on have good teachers, at least from the point of view of exam results, no-one is denying that. But so do many other schools. My own old school a couple of years graduated the candidate with the highest-scoring points in the LC in the country, and it's a very good but a very *normal* rural secondary school ... no fees, no entrance policy, no PR or ads, *lots* of extra-curricular activities, and lots of students who struggle and who need extra attention from teachers.

And there are many schools which will never get a student into the top 5 or even the top 50 in the country, but where marvellous teachers work their backsides off in very tough conditions to get students though the LC with creditable results.

Are they "better" teachers than the teachers in the IoE, or vice versa?

Rather than get into a big argument about it, let's just agree to disagree! :P

UrbanSea

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ridiculous amount of money and you'd be an absolute fool to piss away 10k.

If you don't have the intelligence, grit and determination to get enough points by going to a run of the mill school, then medicine isn't for you.

This is a ridiculous comment.

AdamD wrote: »

Would you not agree that they have a better standard of teachers/notes etc than your standard school?

spurious wrote: »

No I would not.

Frommmy experience youre wrong spurious.
I went to Yeats in Galway having being in my local secondary school. I basically pissed the years away there. That wasn't just me either. The teachers in the school were far superior to my old school,and I knew every course inside out,both the structure and notes.
Put it this way,when I went in for my junior cert Irish,I hadn't a clue that there was even a poetry section on the course.

I'll probably get eaten for this,but every time one of these threads comesnup there's such a sense of almost jealousy towards the OP,criticising their choice to go to a grinds school and they won't necessarily do better there,which is no doubt true.
However,the figures don't lie. You are more likely to get what you want in a grinds school.

GoldFour4

Get your parents to keep the 15 grand in the bank. Make an agreement, if you get medicine, you get the money. If your not gonna do the work in a public school with 15 grand on the line then your not gonna do the work when your paying an over the top fee. Save your parents some money. The teaching may be slightly better but its not 15 grand better.

@bold

[QUOTE=malachyscott;73067676]Get your parents to keep the 15 grand in the bank. Make an agreement, if you get medicine, you get the money. If your not gonna do the work in a public school with 15 grand on the line then your not gonna do the work when your paying an over the top fee. Save your parents some money. The teaching may be slightly better but its not 15 grand better.[/QUOTE]
@bold: Lets be realistic, that is never going to happen.

nicola09

I didn't go to the Institute and I don't personally know anyone who went there but my concern would be that the style of learning in these grinds schools isn't really compatible with how you learn in college. The leaving cert in general is nothing like third level and I wonder whether the IoE practice of giving you all these good notes and making predictions of what will be on the exam might be setting you up for a shock in a course like medicine, where you will have a lot of work to do on your own.

On the flipside, if you just want to play the leaving cert game and get all the A1s you need then the Institute can certainly help you with this, but you could achieve the same results in any school if you are determined, especially the second time round since you will have a knowledge of what the exams are like and where you think you went wrong. €10k plus is a lot of money these days so don't feel like you need to spend it to get high points, it's possible in any school, the institute just markets itself as the most hassle free way to do it I think!

Sunny!!

UrbanSea wrote: »

This is a ridiculous comment.




Frommmy experience youre wrong spurious.
I went to Yeats in Galway having being in my local secondary school. I basically pissed the years away there. That wasn't just me either. The teachers in the school were far superior to my old school,and I knew every course inside out,both the structure and notes.
Put it this way,when I went in for my junior cert Irish,I hadn't a clue that there was even a poetry section on the course.

I'll probably get eaten for this,but every time one of these threads comesnup there's such a sense of almost jealousy towards the OP,criticising their choice to go to a grinds school and they won't necessarily do better there,which is no doubt true.
However,the figures don't lie. You are more likely to get what you want in a grinds school.

totally agree with this, there is an awful lot of jealousy out there when private school come up in conversation, but i think there is a cruel reality that they are better, not by much maybe but better

UrbanSea

Sunny!! wrote: »

totally agree with this, there is an awful lot of jealousy out there when private school come up in conversation, but i think there is a cruel reality that they are better, not by much maybe but better

Certainly. Most of this comes from people who don't even know me. Most of my mates are on the dole and didn't go to college. They don't care where I went to school,they said fair play for actually workingnhard.
Then people I meet may say 'aw snobs go there' or 'rich ones go there'.
There are people who are up their own hole everywhere. Jealousy focuses people's gaze toward grind schools,though. Which is quite untrue.

Sunny!!

UrbanSea wrote: »

Certainly. Most of this comes from people who don't even know me. Most of my mates are on the dole and didn't go to college. They don't care where I went to school,they said fair play for actually workingnhard.
Then people I meet may say 'aw snobs go there' or 'rich ones go there'.
There are people who are up their own hole everywhere. Jealousy focuses people's gaze toward grind schools,though. Which is quite untrue.

thats an absolute replicate of my situation. From being to 3 grind schools, getting grinds in different subjects, not there for the actual year, ive found the teachers far superior, in a public school its accept what your given in regards to teachers, Teacher in grind schools are sought out for

randylonghorn

UrbanSea wrote: »

However,the figures don't lie. You are more likely to get what you want in a grinds school.

And if any good school in Dublin had the option to admit only bright and committed students intent on maximising points, do you think it would be much different?

As for jealousy, lol! I went to a terrific albeit unpretentious school; myself and three of my classmates had more than enough points for med (ironically, none of us had any interest); besides which, I had a ball! Why on earth would I be jealous?

I accept that the occasional sniping comment from the sidelines may have an element of pique, but please don't tar us all with the same brush or presume that people aren't capable of forming their own valid opinions based on a better foundation that that!

The institute dont admit people based on how intelligent they are...they admit whoever pays them

Bbbbolger

I dont have any jealousy towards the Institute or any other Grinds School for that matter. I even considered going there for a while. However most of the talk seems to be about teachers/notes. With regards to teachers I dont know any of the Institute teachers but from what I hear they are completely points focused i.e. pure rote learning of notes/essays etc. I dont have any real problems with that, it's what has to be done for the Leaving but I know of a lot of schools who have very good teachers, both exam-focused and just great at teaching in general.

With regards to their notes, I've seen notes from the Institute and while some were very impressive, others did have faults. Also, I've found that looking for the information using textbooks and exam papers makes you learn things a lot better as opposed to just being handed sheets of "good" notes to learn.

The Institute is clearly an excellent place to learn but you have to ask if it is worth €15,000? I just cant see it ever being worth that, especially when you can do everything they offer from home. I'd advise you to go to a local school but really focus for the entire year. Thats what grind schools do (among other things)...motivate you. You have fewer friends, fewer distractions and a greater desire to succeed due to not wanting to let your familys money go to waste.

Sunny!!

randylonghorn wrote: »

And if any good school in Dublin had the option to admit only bright and committed students intent on maximising points, do you think it would be much different?

As for jealousy, lol! I went to a terrific albeit unpretentious school; myself and three of my classmates had more than enough points for med (ironically, none of us had any interest); besides which, I had a ball! Why on earth would I be jealous?

I accept that the occasional sniping comment from the sidelines may have an element of pique, but please don't tar us all with the same brush or presume that people aren't capable of forming their own valid opinions based on a better foundation that that!

your speaking for your school and it may have been great like many others, but in citys and towns you will find some horrific schools. I dont think its nice to be told by three teachers i dont care what you do in life once i get my pay packet at the end of the week more or less. Grind schools dont suit everyone, you can do well without them no doubt

UrbanSea

randylonghorn wrote: »

And if any good school in Dublin had the option to admit only bright and committed students intent on maximising points, do you think it would be much different?

As for jealousy, lol! I went to a terrific albeit unpretentious school; myself and three of my classmates had more than enough points for med (ironically, none of us had any interest); besides which, I had a ball! Why on earth would I be jealous?

I accept that the occasional sniping comment from the sidelines may have an element of pique, but please don't tar us all with the same brush or presume that people aren't capable of forming their own valid opinions based on a better foundation that that!

A few issues here.
Your first point. My apologies,I wasn't aware of their admission policy. I was basing this on the admission policy in Yeats which I went too. As far as I'm aware they allowed all potential students to join,I merely assumed this was the same with the institute,which,upon reflection,may be incorrect.

Also my post was at no point directed toward you. Apologies if you interpreted the post as calling you jealous,nor did I intend to undermine your intelligence. Of course it is possible to obtain excellent points in a public school,at no point did I even imply otherwise.
However,there is nearly always a sense of jealousy in these threads. Not by everyone,I don't mean to paint people with the same brush,but when we're dealing with private bs. Public,it's inevitable,as not everybody is able to have the same opportunity as others,as unfair as that may be.

GoldFour4

Sunny!! wrote: »

your speaking for your school and it may have been great like many others, but in citys and towns you will find some horrific schools. I dont think its nice to be told by three teachers i dont care what you do in life once i get my pay packet at the end of the week more or less. Grind schools dont suit everyone, you can do well without them no doubt

I've no doubt that the grind school teachers care just as little about what you do for the rest of your life. The majority won't remember you 5 years down the line. I think the I don't care speech is a bit of motivation also, I've seen lads realise that its up to them to learn the material, not the teacher.

Sunny!!

malachyscott wrote: »

I've no doubt that the grind school teachers care just as little about what you do for the rest of your life. The majority won't remember you 5 years down the line. I think the I don't care speech is a bit of motivation also, I've seen lads realise that its up to them to learn the material, not the teacher.

yeah, i forgot to mention that these teachers barely knew the day of the week no mind there courses, it was highly insulting:(

Bbbbolger

Bad teachers are terrible to have to endure, but there are other options to going to a grind school. Ask around from people at other schools close to your area to see what teachers there are like. If good quality teachers is what you want, grind schools will probably have an advantage yes...but theres nothing to say there aren't very good teachers at other schools. And if there is you could save a lot of money

sdanseo

Funnily enough, when I did IOE grinds (having gone to a private school full time already) I found the teachers late, rude and bigoted, not to mention the fact that they would put you to sleep and made no effort to engage, as oposed to lecture.

To me, a good teacher is someone who discusses the subject with the students, not one who preaches to them , I find it a much better way of learning, but maybe that's just me. I don't like being made feel like a lesser being than a teacher who has no time for the idividual (which these guys invariably don't).

IOE is a glorified lecture theatre and you need to do 80% of the work yourself. I thought it was €5k, but three times that? Definately not worth it.

Sunny!!

Bbbbolger wrote: »

Bad teachers are terrible to have to endure, but there are other options to going to a grind school. Ask around from people at other schools close to your area to see what teachers there are like. If good quality teachers is what you want, grind schools will probably have an advantage yes...but theres nothing to say there aren't very good teachers at other schools. And if there is you could save a lot of money

i agree, and to go back to the point is it 15000 the ioe want? thats absolutely crazy and a total rip off comparing to other grind schools. The grind schools normal schools could go on untill we are on our deathbeds:P from my experience only grinds schools are better, it may not be true but thats only my opinion anyway:)

UrbanSea

sdeire wrote: »

Funnily enough, when I did IOE grinds (having gone to a private school full time already) I found the teachers late, rude and bigoted, not to mention the fact that they would put you to sleep and made no effort to engage, as oposed to lecture.

To me, a good teacher is someone who discusses the subject with the students, not one who preaches to them , I find it a much better way of learning, but maybe that's just me. I don't like being made feel like a lesser being than a teacher who has no time for the idividual (which these guys invariably don't).

IOE is a glorified lecture theatre and you need to do 80% of the work yourself. I thought it was €5k, but three times that? Definately not worth it.

I did hear the same,but didn't want to day in case I sounded biased.

randylonghorn

AdamD wrote: »

The institute dont admit people based on how intelligent they are...they admit whoever pays them

Oh, I know, I didn't mean they had an entrance exam ... but in general, it is only bright and committed students intent on maximising points who will go there and whose parents will spend that much.

Mind you, I guarantee they won't want to accept *too* many who they feel might bring their results down, even if they're able to pay.

Sunny!! wrote: »

your speaking for your school and it may have been great like many others, but in citys and towns you will find some horrific schools. I dont think its nice to be told by three teachers i dont care what you do in life once i get my pay packet at the end of the week more or less.

Oh, I know some schools are better than others, and some teachers are better than others; my point is that to be a good school you don't have to be a grind school. In fact, I would argue that grind schools, while they might be brilliant at being *grind schools*, aren't in general good schools as I understand the term. Put it this way ... if I ever have kids, I won't be sending them to one!

UrbanSea wrote: »

A few issues here.
Your first point. My apologies,I wasn't aware of their admission policy. I was basing this on the admission policy in Yeats which I went too. As far as I'm aware they allowed all potential students to join,I merely assumed this was the same with the institute,which,upon reflection,may be incorrect.

No, as covered above, I was referring more to the type of students who tend to go there, rather than a set admissions policy.

UrbanSea wrote: »

Also my post was at no point directed toward you. Apologies if you interpreted the post as calling you jealous,nor did I intend to undermine your intelligence. Of course it is possible to obtain excellent points in a public school,at no point did I even imply otherwise.
However,there is nearly always a sense of jealousy in these threads. Not by everyone,I don't mean to paint people with the same brush,but when we're dealing with private bs. Public,it's inevitable,as not everybody is able to have the same opportunity as others,as unfair as that may be.

Oh, I wasn't taking anything personally ... my point was more that many people, including myself, are not great admirers of grinds schools for many reasons that have nothing to do with jealousy, and it's unwise to just dismiss all critical comments as emanating from that.

As I say, you may get occasional comments with an element of that, but many of us have other reasons for our views.

Just a note for clarity, btw ... grinds schools are only one subset of those schools technically considered "private" in this country, which is why I avoid using that term in reference to them, as it often causes confusion.

I don't like grind schools, I think it almost defeats the purpose of education. But for what the OP wants, they are better, with better being in the points race sense.

Sunny!!

randylonghorn wrote: »

Oh, I know, I didn't mean they had an entrance exam ... but in general, it is only bright and committed students intent on maximising points who will go there and whose parents will spend that much.

Mind you, I guarantee they won't want to accept *too* many who they feel might bring their results down, even if they're able to pay.

Oh, I know some schools are better than others, and some teachers are better than others; my point is that to be a good school you don't have to be a grind school. In fact, I would argue that grind schools, while they might be brilliant at being *grind schools*, aren't in general good schools as I understand the term. Put it this way ... if I ever have kids, I won't be sending them to one!

No, as covered above, I was referring more to the type of students who tend to go there, rather than a set admissions policy.

Oh, I wasn't taking anything personally ... my point was more that many people, including myself, are not great admirers of grinds schools for many reasons that have nothing to do with jealousy, and it's unwise to just dismiss all critical comments as emanating from that.

As I say, you may get occasional comments with an element of that, but many of us have other reasons for our views.

Just a note for clarity, btw ... grinds schools are only one subset of those schools technically considered "private" in this country, which is why I avoid using that term in reference to them, as it often causes confusion.

i agree with all the bold except the last sentence:)

randylonghorn

Sunny!! wrote: »

i agree with all the bold except the last sentence:)

YOU'RE TELLING ME WHERE TO SEND MY KIDS TO SCHOOL?!!! :eek: :mad:








(I'm joking! ... I know what you mean.)

Sunny!!

randylonghorn wrote: »

YOU'RE TELLING ME WHERE TO SEND MY KIDS TO SCHOOL?!!! :eek: :mad:








(I'm joking! ... I know what you mean.)

i would send my kids there but i dont mind if you differ :P

UrbanSea

Thanks for clarifying randy,apologies for any misunderstandings.

Just out of curiousity,how do people generally differentiate between grind schools and private schools?