Driving contra-flow on a dual carriageway [renamed Exit 22 M7]

TippTopp

Yesterday I was driving on the one way entry road/ramp to adjoin the M7 northbound/Dublin bound at exit 22 when a car drove up towards me (obliviously on the wrong side of the road) to meet me head on. Thankfully no accident happened on this occasion, but this is my second time at exit 22 to experience a driver who is driving their car in wrong direction! Be it due to driver error or otherwise, this should not be happening – has anyone else had a similar experience at this exit? If so, you could post onto this tread would be most appreciated as then I can send this on to the local representatives in the area that either a Garda road safety audit or that something should be done with the NRA in order to avoid a serious collision in the future.

Many thanks

Cat Melodeon

I came off the motorway at exit 23 and back on again at 22for the first time recently and was appalled at the way these two junctions are laid out. They are absolutely lethal and I'm not surprised some people have ended up driving the wrong way through them. The 90 degree turn off and the shared on/off ramps are a fatality waiting to happen. I noticed that some of the signage at both junctions had been damaged - presumably by someone coming off the motorway at 120kph not realising that they were about to have to hang a sharp left to avoid crashing though the barrier and into oncoming traffic. Clearly these junctions were done on the cheap - I can't believe they meet safety regulations. Good luck with your campaign, I doubt you'll have much joy as it eventually will go back to the NRA who have feckall money for upgrades.

niloc1951

The NRA need to get their collective heads out of their collective arses on this issue. They would be better diverting money from presently unnecessary motorway type exit signs as recently appeared on the N25 to installing separation barriers to prevent further incidents of the type being discussed here.

There was a reported fatality on the M6 yesterday and also a double fatality on the N25 earlier this year, to mention two of the many, all because there are obviously insufficient preventative measures to stop disoriented drivers heading off the wrong way.
All the signs in the world will not do the job physically, barriers of some type are needed, armco, wire, bollards, concrete, whatever will do the job quickly and economically, before we have more bereaved families.
In human terms, the incident on the N25 took someones son and a person who was a mother of two children, a wife and daughter.

marmurr1916

Well said. The latest death caused by the NRA's lack of action was on the M6 in Co. Galway:

A woman in her 60s was killed in a collision after apparently driving the wrong way down the the Dublin- Galway motorway yesterday afternoon.

It is understood the woman had driven her car eastbound down the westbound carriageway of the M6. She was the only occupant of the car. The driver and sole occupant of the second car, a woman in her 30s, was seriously injured and taken to hospital in Tullamore. Last night, her condition was described as stable.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0629/1224299729529.html

It's about time the NRA put physical separation barriers at confusing junctions, along with VERY LARGE SIGNS telling people the correct way to proceed.

whyulittle

It was in Moate and there are no LILO or confusing junctions there.

Amtmann

I don't think it's remotely fair to blame the NRA when people stupidly (at worst) or negligently (at best) drive the wrong way down a dual carriageway. If someone is walking too close to the edge of a cliff and gets blown into the ocean, do we demand that the government put up fences along all cliffs?

Someone who drives the wrong way down a dual carriageway simply is not fit to be behind the wheel of a car.

Elsewhere, gardaí are investigating the death of a woman after what is being described as a tragic accident on the Dublin to Galway Road this afternoon.
It is understood the woman who died drove down an exit ramp from the westbound carriageway near Moate in Co Westmeath.
She proceeded to drive in an eastern direction meeting traffic travelling in the opposite direction.
A garda traffic car, which was on a motorway at the time, passed the vehicle and tried to warn traffic travelling in the opposite direction.
The gardaí then made an unsuccessful attempt to stop the vehicle. The motorist slowed down, but then continued to drive on in an eastern direction on the westbound carriageway of the M6.
Moments later the car was involved in a head-on collision with another car.
The driver of the car that was travelling in the wrong direction died.

Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0628/rta.html

RIP to the woman in question. But frankly, I hope to God I never encounter such a driver on our road network.

hi5

Not met anyone on the wrong side either but I've seen numerous cars circling the roundabout they presumably came off at trying to get back on again on their return journey.
Due to a lack of signage and road markings in the past I suspect alot of people are still using memory and sense of direction to get from a to b.
So they memorise one roundabout for the return journey.

L1011

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Well said. The latest death caused by the NRA's lack of action was on the M6 in Co. Galway:



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0629/1224299729529.html

It's about time the NRA put physical separation barriers at confusing junctions, along with VERY LARGE SIGNS telling people the correct way to proceed.

Moate has two full dumbell interchanges - there's no confusion there.

veryangryman

What the incident shows is that there is a reason theres speed limits there. Expect the unexpected.

That said, the junctions could be foolproofed in the same way the N6 J10 westbound is where the off-ramp is divided into two angled slips for leftr and right turns. It seems like nothing, but ive never seen anyone stupidly turning that way.

Ive little sympathy for the dead woman (although it is very sad). When i heard it, i was just enraged at the idea that it could have been me unfortunate enough to meet her. Its a shimmering reminder that people over 50 should be made to take a new driving test to stay on the road.

The Motorway network is still very new and there are still alot of innocents out there not used to it. I think this is the main reason for the lack of quality of driver. I know people who still prefer using the old roads I think that in time, this sort of thing will become a rarity

Sponge Bob

Everybody who was handed a driving licence without a test in 1979 is now over 50 so a mandatory retest for the lot of them would be a good idea.

AugustusMinimus

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Everybody who was handed a driving licence without a test in 1979 is now over 50 so a mandatory retest for the lot of them would be a good idea.

What about all the people who got licences before the test was even introduced ? The RSA's very own Gay Byrne for instance.

AugustusMinimus

It's a wonder that the media aren't waxing lyrical about the dangers of old people (and it's usually old people) driving contra flow on motorways.

Oh wait, silly me. The media is only allowed focus on young male speeders :rolleyes:

JupiterKid

I've said it before and I'll say it again, junctions 22 and 23 on the M7 are very poorly designed and are way below standard for a high quality dualler, let alone a major arterial motorway.

They are horrific accidents waiting to happen.:(:mad:

L1011

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It's a wonder that the media aren't waxing lyrical about the dangers of old people (and it's usually old people) driving contra flow on motorways.

Because old people are the main purchasers of INM and TCH's regional papers and listeners to local radio?

serfboard

OP, you're talking about LILOs on motorways. In fairness, we usually only have them on lighter-trafficked junctions. On the M18, junctions 9-12 are dumbbell junctions where you have proper slip-roads. Junctions 13, 14 and 15 are LILOs, which is fair enough, because not many people use them.

There was one of these incidents involving a 72-year old lady driving down the wrong side from junction 14. Since then, poles have been placed in the centre of the slip-road to avoid this, and it hasn't happened again.

The M6 crash was in a different category.

cml387

A lot of ageist nonsense in this thread which I can't let pass.
So I once saw a youg woman driving the wrong way down the M8 after the mitchelstown/Fermoy section opened.Does that mean that all women should do a yearly test?

I haven't driven that section of the M7,but looking at the junction layout it seems dangerous,just as the Ennis bypass had accidents when it first opened,for similar reasons.

veryangryman

cml387 wrote: »

A lot of ageist nonsense in this thread which I can't let pass.
So I once saw a youg woman driving the wrong way down the M8 after the mitchelstown/Fermoy section opened.Does that mean that all women should do a yearly test?

No - she should be put off the road if/when the cops catch her. Every other woman (and man) judged on their own merits.

What we are saying is far from ageist - its a fact that ones driving ability lessens with age. A basic test every 10 years for all (so for me, id be doing my next one at 35 etc) would quieten up the accusations of ageism.

I think prevention is better than cure. Id imagine that woman would still be alive if we had something like this.

Stark

cml387 wrote: »

A lot of ageist nonsense in this thread which I can't let pass.

You're right. We should go back to talking about young male drivers.

cml387

veryangryman wrote: »

No - she should be put off the road if/when the cops catch her. Every other woman (and man) judged on their own merits.

What we are saying is far from ageist - its a fact that ones driving ability lessens with age. A basic test every 10 years for all (so for me, id be doing my next one at 35 etc) would quieten up the accusations of ageism.

I think prevention is better than cure. Id imagine that woman would still be alive if we had something like this.

Actually you said "a shimmering reminder that people over 50 should be made to take a new driving test to stay on the road. "

Anyway,we are moving OT.The NRA have some more dangerous roads in their care,and the N4 between the end of the Mullingar bypass and Neads bridge is a lethal combination of local traffic being asked to move into the overtaking lane to turn right,and a positively suicidal interchange for Killucan at The Downs.
Plans are affoot to close these median-gap junctions,but they aren't moving quickly enough.

lucernarian

It's a little unfair to excuse the NRA on the basis that people would have to be stupid to drive down the wrong side of a motorway junction. The cliffs of moher aren't "badly designed", they have always been there and like that before any of us bumbling apes came along.

On the other hand, if a motorway exit is poorly signed or visibility is poor on an approaching bend then it's up to the people who designed that inadequate situation to remedy it. It's supposed to be built so that resposible drivers can use the road/junction safely. I already know people who had to bury their loved ones because the NRA fúcked up and ignored warnings on road junction issues on the old N1 in Louth. Even the warnings from Garda management in the then Louth/Meath division. Of course, the NRA suddenly decided after the tragedy that the issues warranted attention enough to remedy. Even though the M1 stretch was opened the same year the measures were implemented!

Stark

It's one thing to drive the wrong way down the junction, it's another to keep going when you've the hard shoulder and the central median on the wrong side of the road with two lanes of traffic coming straight against you and Gardaí signalling you to pull over. The people involved in these incidents simply aren't aware of their surroundings and I'm not sure what how many more "Wrong way turn back.". "No really, turn back", "Srsly, turn back" signs you can erect that would get their attention.

SeanW

cml387 wrote: »

Actually you said "a shimmering reminder that people over 50 should be made to take a new driving test to stay on the road. "

Actually, I believe the consensus was:

Everybody who was handed a driving licence without a test in 1979 is now over 50 so a mandatory retest for the lot of them would be a good idea.

Many older people, between the '79 amnesty and the pre '64 lack of a driving test, never had to pass the test that the rest of us had to. Yet these same people, like Gaybo (old enough to be Hugh Heffner's grandfather, and probably just waltzed into his local post office and walked out with a drivers license, back in the day) seem to have a problem with young people. He did say that people under 25 have a "disease" of youth ...

ardmacha

There is a lot of merit in a 10 year retest of road regulations at least. But these serious accidents go beyond the lack of a test in the past, there is a specific limitation on the people concerned at that time that is not shared by most people. And Gaybo might be hard on under 25s, the vast majority of whom are driving safely, but a significant minority in this age are deliberately driving dangerously.

Stark

Blind people have a specific limitation not shared by most people either. Is that an excuse for blind people to drive?

As for young people deliberately driving dangerously? A tiny minority might be deliberately setting out to cause carnage on the roads (same tiny minority who go out stabbing people on a Saturday night and other such unsavoury pursuits). Most I would say are simply inexperienced. I remember when I was a "young male driver", I would pedantically stick to the speed limits but often experience hairy moments on bends, in bad conditions and the like while thinking I was safe because "I was within the limit". Not much different to someone who is incompetent because they learnt to drive when all roads were deserted dirt tracks running through the countryside and never updated their skills to take into account new road types really.

whyulittle

It was in the paper this week that the other party in the Moate crash passed away from her injuries on July 1st.

ardmacha

Blind people have a specific limitation not shared by most people either. Is that an excuse for blind people to drive?

Of course not. However, a complete driving test may not be required to identify blindess.

I remember when I was a "young male driver", I would pedantically stick to the speed limits but often experience hairy moments on bends, in bad conditions and the like while thinking I was safe because "I was within the limit".

Since the speed limit is a legal restriction, not a certification of the proper speed to drive at in all conditions, you were speeding. Simple as that. You may have been incompetent, but you many others know they are speeding, but like the "buzz".

Not much different to someone who is incompetent because they learnt to drive when all roads were deserted dirt tracks running through the countryside and never updated their skills to take into account new road types really.

Driving on new roads is actually rather easy when compared to roads of the past.

popebenny16

serfboard wrote: »

OP, you're talking about LILOs on motorways. In fairness, we usually only have them on lighter-trafficked junctions. .

N62 is the main trunk road from Thurles to Mullingar and beyond and connects three motorways (M8,7,6) and that is far from a lightly used junction.

there are red poles down the middle of the slip roads to prevent traffic crossing from the up to the down side, and despite my problems with them, i cannot fathom how someone can be coming up the wrong side, unless they were going down and figured out that they were heading in the wong direction, did a 3-point turn on the slip and headed back up.

That can hardly be the NRA's fault. My main gripe is with the way the LILO's are sinaged on the N7 and N62, because of the counter-intuitive way in which you have to turn towards Limerick to go to Dublin and vice versa. That is causing confusion and may have been the initial problem here. However, the solution the driver came up with is nothing short of dangerous driving in my opinion and nothign to do with the NRA.

Stark

ardmarcha wrote: »

Since the speed limit is a legal restriction, not a certification of the proper speed to drive at in all conditions, you were speeding. Simple as that. You may have been incompetent, but you many others know they are speeding, but like the "buzz".

It's funny how the "s word" is never mentioned when it's a lone female who leaves the road in the middle of a bend. In those cases, it's a "tragic accident".

ardmacha wrote: »

Driving on new roads is actually rather easy when compared to roads of the past.

So how do you explain managing to drive the wrong way on them?

AugustusMinimus

Stark wrote: »

It's funny how the "s word" is never mentioned when it's a lone female who leaves the road in the middle of a bend. In those cases, it's a "tragic accident".

The worst I've ever read was the woman who was killed on the N7 when she drove into the back of a fire engine in thick fog.

She was going much too fast for the conditions.

Verdict of the court: Drivers in the overtaking lane were driving too fast, thereby not allowing the fire engine pull into the overtaking lane thereby causing the accident.

Mad.

cargo

cml387 wrote: »

A lot of ageist nonsense in this thread which I can't let pass.
So I once saw a youg woman driving the wrong way down the M8 after the mitchelstown/Fermoy section opened.Does that mean that all women should do a yearly test?

I haven't driven that section of the M7,but looking at the junction layout it seems dangerous,just as the Ennis bypass had accidents when it first opened,for similar reasons.

Well they shouldn't be driving in the first place but if they have to be let (sexism and all that) then it should be twice yearly test!!

ps I am joking b4 you all start calling for my b**ls (in a bad way)

ardmacha

So how do you explain managing to drive the wrong way on them?

Driver incompetance. I would have thought this was fairly obvious.

Graffogefarms

did end up passing - . A lovely young lady, my cousin. Who I babysat, many years ago, Due to be engaged, and an innocent in all this. No way can this be understood. It is something that the parents are never going to get over, nor her sister, her brother. It is heartbreaking. Why can't there be tire damage things on the ramps that are retractable under metal plates for authorities. But then again - its a case of cost versus life isn't. Its cheaper for a person to be killed than to fix things for the government. This is something that warrants further investigation. Even now - over a month later it is hard to not cry.

wildefalcon

JupiterKid wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, junctions 22 and 23 on the M7 are very poorly designed and are way below standard for a high quality dualler, let alone a major arterial motorway.

They are horrific accidents waiting to happen.:(:mad:

Having driven on numerous motorways/autobahns/freeways in my time I have to agree.

The design is extremely poor, and for those who have not seen the junction I can only describe it as a sharp 90 degree bend beside a short deceleration lane, immediately adjacent to the driving lane of the motorway.

In otherwords the traffic has to stop right beside the motorway in order to turn off.

Madness.

And I rather expect that this design will be challenged in the courts, successfully and soon, hopefully by someone who has survived the impact and only claiming for damages to their vehicle.

veryangryman

wildefalcon wrote: »

Having driven on numerous motorways/autobahns/freeways in my time I have to agree.

The design is extremely poor, and for those who have not seen the junction I can only describe it as a sharp 90 degree bend beside a short deceleration lane, immediately adjacent to the driving lane of the motorway.

In otherwords the traffic has to stop right beside the motorway in order to turn off.

Madness.

And I rather expect that this design will be challenged in the courts, successfully and soon, hopefully by someone who has survived the impact and only claiming for damages to their vehicle.

Why does nobody complain about the 2 similar juncitons on the M18? Why?

Graffogefarms

I honestly don't think that the family are going to let this go - . The rumour is also that the older woman who drove the wrong way and hit my cousin was suicidal, due to her son having taken his own life - but why take an innocent.

Then you hear that people driving the wrong way on this road on a regular basis. Signage, and something to stop people going the wrong way. If the tires are ripped out - your not going to go to far, - as someone said there was plenty of room to turn around and go the correct way. The NRA, the authorities - whoever - has got to be held accountable. Innocent people end up getting hurt.
I don't know about the other roads, but now having lost a family member - it makes it more personal. We can sit and whine, or we can do something about it.

whyulittle

Saw a car almost drive the wrong way onto the westbound carriageway at J10 on the Athlone BP today. Ended up on the wrong side of the bridge with traffic coming towards it.

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.43093,-7.925064&spn=0.000539,0.001725&t=k&z=19

CerebralCortex

veryangryman wrote: »

Why does nobody complain about the 2 similar juncitons on the M18? Why?

I was just going to mention those, absolutely stupid junctions isn't one of them on the more recent parts of the M18? Then again this is the same road that has house entrances facing onto it! That's a pet peeve of mine. Exhibit a. Imagine how easy it would be for a visiting relative to go the wrong way out of these houses!?

veryangryman

Graffogefarms wrote: »

Then you hear that people driving the wrong way on this road on a regular basis. Signage, and something to stop people going the wrong way. If the tires are ripped out - your not going to go to far, - as someone said there was plenty of room to turn around and go the correct way.

You do realise that people going the correct way will also run over these spikes?

This was a tragedy but blaming the NRA is misguided at best and foolish at worst in my opinion. There is absolutely nothing to stop anyone anywhere in the world driving the wrong way if they just go ahead and do it.

Signage is a prevention, not letting dopes on the road by making them sit driving tests every few years is another; Sadly clearly the second one is not being done.

NRA should be given great credit for the recent signage updates. You will still get these types of accidents as there is no accounting for muppetry on the road.

_Kaiser_

wildefalcon wrote: »

Having driven on numerous motorways/autobahns/freeways in my time I have to agree.

The design is extremely poor, and for those who have not seen the junction I can only describe it as a sharp 90 degree bend beside a short deceleration lane, immediately adjacent to the driving lane of the motorway.

In otherwords the traffic has to stop right beside the motorway in order to turn off.

Madness.

The Navan South exit on the M3 seems a bit like this.. splits off the main road into 2 lanes that then have a very sharp left turn at the end that loop up and over the main carriageway

Another accident waiting to happen I'd imagine if you weren't familiar with it

serfboard

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I was just going to mention those, absolutely stupid junctions isn't one of them on the more recent parts of the M18? Then again this is the same road that has house entrances facing onto it! That's a pet peeve of mine. Exhibit a.

In fairness, and to be a bit pedantic about it, that's on the part of the road that is not motorway. And in fact, it was for this reason (houses directly onto the road) and others that this section was not designated motorway.

Still, I agree with you about how dangerous it is. I'd hate to live there myself.