Sub 2:50 DCM '11

seanynova

im really setting myself up for a fall with the title but...

its 18weeks to DCM '11, and i have started my official marathon training with a rest day today...i started my unofficial marathon training around 9-10 weeks ago when i first started running again after a 4month injury lay off. the 9-10weeks consisted of base building from 4x 30sec jog, 6x 1min jog up to a week of around 43miles incl 16m easy. the last few weeks have had a few interval sessions thrown in for good measure but i can safely say im way off my target pace at the moment.

im going to follow a hybrid Daniels plan, using Plan A Q1 sessions and improvised Q2 sessions from the Elite plan.

i also have planned 2 races within the training schedule, a 10m at the end of july, 5weeks time and a 10k in mid september. i might give the 10m a miss as its in july, and temps will be high! i dont think ill be in a position to get a good time there either but ill see how it goes over the next few weeks.
as for the 10k, i wouldnt be a huge fan of 10k racing for a marathon but its the most competitive race in the area around that time, there will likely be a few 30ish min finishers or under? its the provincial 10k championships so i figure ill have a lot running support in my time bracket so that will help.

temps will begin to cool down here hopefully at the end of august so ill hopefully get 8weeks of qood quality runs in then..until then im hoping i can work around the weather on the Q1 sessions and do what i can on the mid week Q2 sessions...its hot here!

kicking it off tomorrow with an improvised Q2 session, a tempo interval session....3 or 4x 10mins, or 7x 5min each interval.

if i dont make sub 2:50, i wont be too disappointed, ill know after my training what the real goal is and what im capable of running...either way ill be running for the fastest time i can achieve based on my ability/training.

Sosa

Best of lucky with the goals and training Seany...good to see your back
sub 2:50 is doable for you...just about staying healthy and positive

Speedy44

Great to see you back Seany with the bit between your teeth. I've no doubt you can do it.
Will be following with interest as I would like to do the same next April in Boston, as long as I have the wind at my back!!

seanynova

got the training off to a good start i think, nowhere near a sub2:50 tempo pace but still better than i expected and will hopefully get better as time goes on.

10m, 1:12:23mins @7:14m/m HR(av/max)167/182, 16deg sunny!

4x 10min Tempo Splits (avHR) off 2mins rec:
6:18(175)
6:20(175)
6:14(176)
6:14(175)

total weekly mileage 10m

misty floyd

Nice one Sean. Best of luck with training. I'll be following with interest. Injury? what injury....good start!

RacoonQueen

Best of luck with the training. Still mulling over whether to do an 18 week or a 12 week plan myself.

seanynova

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Best of luck with the training. Still mulling over whether to do an 18 week or a 12 week plan myself.

cheers, have you made up your mind? you could always do a 17week plan?

a lot of debate these days regarding the lenght of training though, hard to know

seanynova

wed 5m easy 8:03m/m 25deg and sunny

thurs 6m easy 8:05m/m 28deg and humid.
was supposed to be 9m but it was just too hot, was 34 today with a feel like factor of 44 degs! ran at 8pm and still 28degs....so cut the run back to 6m and was dripping in sweat after!

total weekly mileage: 21m

long run planned for the weekend and another recovery run

Caprica

Best of luck with the training. Will sub 2:50 take much time of your PB? Don't envy you having to train in that heat, I'm finding Dublin warm but it's nowhere the high 20's

seanynova

Caprica wrote: »

Best of luck with the training. Will sub 2:50 take much time of your PB? Don't envy you having to train in that heat, I'm finding Dublin warm but it's nowhere the high 20's

will take 6+ mins off my pb, which should be do-able but im just not there with fitness, so depends on how quickly that comes back...as i say ill know more regarding marathon pace closer to the date.
i see you will be giving dcm a go yourself, 14/15week plan? any time in mind yet?

seanynova

fri; 4m easy 7:52m/m warm out

sat; 5m easy incl 6x 15-20sec strides 7:40m/m again warm

1st long run on the traing plan:
sun; 18.0m, 2:24:03mins @8:00m/m HR 151/162 17-21deg sunny/cloud

had to stop around 6/7 times to take on water at the watre fountains dotted around the park but if i didnt i have been screwed....feel ok afterwards, might go for a swim(splash around) later though and do some more stretching

total weekly mileage 48m

aero2k

Best of luck Seany,

2:50 is well within your reach. Don't worry about the slow tempos for now, give yourself a few weeks at that pace and suddenly you'll be able to take a big step up.

tunguska

seanynova wrote: »

im going to follow a hybrid Daniels plan, using Plan A Q1 sessions and improvised Q2 sessions from the Elite plan.

Sounds good Seany. Myself and the guy Im training with are following daniels elite program. Where are you based? If you're in dublin why not jump in with us? What kind of mileage are you planning on peaking at?

Gringo78

Best of luck Seany - going for Dublin myself with a similar time target so might see you on the start line. The Daniels Elite plan just looked too scary to me so will be sticking to something easier but may progress to some of those Q1/Q2 sessions if things are going well.

smmoore79

Best of luck Seany. i cant believe that you've done an 18 miler already!!!!

Gringo78

smmoore79 wrote: »

Best of luck Seany. i cant believe that you've done an 18 miler already!!!!

Well spotted smmoore.

Seany, I'm assuming you are doing the full mileage as per the daniels Q1/Q2 sessions as opposed to his recommended 1 mile or 6min whichever is shorter? i.e when Daniels writes 18m Easy he means 18m if your easy pace is 6min miling, otherwise 18x6min which in your case would have been only 15 miles??

Probably ok to do this on the long easy runs, but be careful on the Q1/Q2 sessions which have a lot of PMP miles thrown in, the session might be too 'superhero this early on after coming back from injury. For mere mortals running >2:30 1 daniels mile easy is 6min & 1 daniels mile MP is 5min & 1 daniels mile tempo is 4:45.

seanynova

tunguska wrote: »

Sounds good Seany. Myself and the guy Im training with are following daniels elite program. Where are you based? If you're in dublin why not jump in with us? What kind of mileage are you planning on peaking at?

thanks for the offer but im in canada now, and i dont think im near sub2:50 pace yet so id be slowing you down anyway...
hoping to peak at 65m but ill be using the % scale to adjust the weekly mileage.

Gringo78 wrote: »

Best of luck Seany - going for Dublin myself with a similar time target so might see you on the start line. The Daniels Elite plan just looked too scary to me so will be sticking to something easier but may progress to some of those Q1/Q2 sessions if things are going well.

the elite plan would be hard going, the long PMP runs with tempo miles to break up the pace would be tough. thats why im using plan A for Q1 sessions. otherwise the Elite plan Q2 sessions, when time based(see below) are do-able, i hope!
hopefully we will make it to the line, i may have work issues but we will see how it pans out at this stage.

Gringo78 wrote: »

Well spotted smmoore.

Seany, I'm assuming you are doing the full mileage as per the daniels Q1/Q2 sessions as opposed to his recommended 1 mile or 6min whichever is shorter? i.e when Daniels writes 18m Easy he means 18m if your easy pace is 6min miling, otherwise 18x6min which in your case would have been only 15 miles??

Probably ok to do this on the long easy runs, but be careful on the Q1/Q2 sessions which have a lot of PMP miles thrown in, the session might be too 'superhero this early on after coming back from injury. For mere mortals running >2:30 1 daniels mile easy is 6min & 1 daniels mile MP is 5min & 1 daniels mile tempo is 4:45.

so as i say, im working off time for the faster stuff, like 10mins tempo instead of 2m, or 20mins tempo instead of 4m kind of thing. but for the long runs im happy to tip away and do high mileage. but the plan is also rearranged to suit a few things.

seanynova

tuesday; 10m, 1:19:50mins @7:59m/m HR 155/165 23degs and sunny!

total weekly mileage; 10m

my midweek runs will be based around a med-long run, recovery runs and a daniels Q session. kicked off the med-longs today with 10m, will ramp it up to 14m at some stage.
going okay so far, but weather would take it out of ya!

seanynova

wed; 4.5m Easy

thurs; 9.0m, 1:16:05mins @8:27m/m HR 153/186
24degs, evening

5x 0.62m Splits:
3:29(177)
3:21(186)
3:30(181)
3:33(183)
3:31(184)

did 5x 50-60secs reps after this also but they were only around 5:15m/m pace, feeling the heat big time and had no liquids on this run, was running dry!

total weekly mileage: 23.5m

Speedy44

seanynova wrote: »

wed; 4.5m Easy

thurs; 9.0m, 1:16:05mins @8:27m/m HR 153/186
24degs, evening

5x 0.62m Splits:
3:29(177)
3:21(186)
3:30(181)
3:33(183)
3:31(184)

did 5x 50-60secs reps after this also but they were only around 5:15m/m pace, feeling the heat big time and had no liquids on this run, was running dry!

total weekly mileage: 23.5m

Nice going Seany, you'll be back in the thick of it again before you know it.
Have to say I'm jealous of you running in that lovely hot Canadian weather

theboyblunder

best of luck seany! will be following with interest

PS I'll be doing dublin now and not lucerne. At this stage im aiming for the same time as yourself, hopefully both of us can stay healthy and head out together.

seanynova

Speedy44 wrote: »

Nice going Seany, you'll be back in the thick of it again before you know it.
Have to say I'm jealous of you running in that lovely hot Canadian weather

i think its ok to be jealous of the weather, but NOT to be running in it...lol. im getting used to it but i have to wear SPF 60 everyday...so usually in the summer its +30 and in winter its -30!! have to take the bad with the good

theboyblunder wrote: »

best of luck seany! will be following with interest

PS I'll be doing dublin now and not lucerne. At this stage im aiming for the same time as yourself, hopefully both of us can stay healthy and head out together.

i think sub2:50 is the new sub3! lol
at the mo you are well ahead of me on pace but i hope to improove quickly, otherwise it will be good to help motivate each other...although, i wount be using you as a taget or anything, ill run my own pace but you know what i mean. ill keep following your log anyhow, nice 1200s yeaterday, that was the pace i was at before i got injured, hard to see myself getting there but im hopeful....with 17weeks to go, you will have no bother with your target!

Caprica

seanynova wrote: »

will take 6+ mins off my pb, which should be do-able but im just not there with fitness, so depends on how quickly that comes back...as i say ill know more regarding marathon pace closer to the date.
i see you will be giving dcm a go yourself, 14/15week plan? any time in mind yet?

We must have fairly close PB's so, I have a 2:56 from Berlin last year. Had hoped for sub 2:55 in Paris this year but a sore calf and the heat meant it didn't happen. Have been carrying the injury since then so have only got back to light training in the last 3/4 weeks. Plan to kick of the proper training next week to give me a 14 week programme and hopefully go under 2:55.

seanynova

Caprica wrote: »

We must have fairly close PB's so, I have a 2:56 from Berlin last year. Had hoped for sub 2:55 in Paris this year but a sore calf and the heat meant it didn't happen. Have been carrying the injury since then so have only got back to light training in the last 3/4 weeks. Plan to kick of the proper training next week to give me a 14 week programme and hopefully go under 2:55.

ya, 2:56 here from dcm last year so it theroy 2:50 should be close enough to my reach...but like you i had injuries so its just a case of seeing how well i get back to fitness and build on it.
14weeks would be enough time i think to get into good amrathon shape, id say one of the more important things is consistancy and injury free training. good luck with it anyway mate, will keep an eye on your log as usual

seanynova

fri: rest day

sat: 6.5m easy 8:14m/m

sun: 16m, 2:03:20mins @7:42m/m HR 156/181
21degs morning

2x 10min Tempo Splits(HR):
6:08(170/178)
6:06(173/181)

was a good Q session to get done, i think i can prob increase the pace of my easy runs a little, was at a low HR for a lot of the easy miles.
the 2x 10min tempo pace was prob a little faster than it should have been but the HR's are in line with my half pace HR so its prob ok.

total weekly mileage: 46m

seanynova

mon: rest

tues: 5m easy incl strides

Wed: 10m, 1:16:20mins @7:38m/m HR 159/177
24degs evening

18/9/5/5mins Tempo Splits(HR):
6:12(172/177)
6:23(170/177)
6:14(167/174)
6:17(168/176)

was supposed to be 20/15/10/5mins but was just too tired to go on...got a few stitches also which caused me to end the 1st and 3rd intervals. not sure what was up tonight, max HR was less than my half marathon avHR and avHR was less than my marathon pace avHR so i wasnt working too hard aerobically but i was just jaded...will do another tempo session on sunday and see how things go then.

total weekly mileage: 15m

seanynova

thurs: 6m Easy

Fri: Rest

Sat: 4m Easy in 33degs with a feels like factor of 39!

Sun: 18m, 2:22:54mins @7:56m/m HR 166/182
25degs

5x Tempo Splits(HR):
6min 6:09(168/176)
3x 5min:
6:10(172/182)
6:12(172/181)
6:12(174/187)
2min Tempo:
6:12(172/180)

it was hot out there, at 6:30am it was 20degs, prob at the start of my run it was only about 21 but morning heat is different to afternoon heat, and it was worse!
havent had to endure anything like that since last year but i think today was the worst...prob cos of the tempo stuff but 11+ miles after was just too hard to be called easy

total weekly mileage: 43m

seanynova

mon: 5m Easy 33degs

Tues: 8m Easy 32degs and humid! (was 36-37degs earlier that day)

wed: rest

thurs: 10.5m, 1:18:39mins @7:29m/m HR159/184 25deg

3x 10min Tempo Splits (HR):
6:19(170/174)
6:15(170/181)
6:16(174/181)
1x 7:30min Tempo Split (HR):
6:18(169/184)

have had a few bad tempos lately so eased back on the pace a bit in an effort to get this done in one piece, done, except i had to cut the last one short but could have gone on. HRs seam low for tempo pace, that said, not sure i could have gone much faster and still say it was comfortably hard....little cooler tonight than last few days helped, sorry for always going on about the weather but it really does make it harder...in a few months ill be putting a - sign before those temps!
anyway ill keep going with those tempo paces for another few weeks and hopefully take in to single figures then(6:08/6:09) but i would like to be running tempos at 177bpm ave over 10mins...


total weekly mileage: 23.5m

seanynova

fri: 6.5m Easy

Sat: 20.5m, 2:43:42mins @7:59m/m HR 152/163 19-20deg sun/cloud

checked the weather forcast last night and with rain and 15-18degs forcast i though sat would be the best day to do my 20miler....had a little lie-in bed this morning and at 10am it sure enough was overcast but no rain...had a few things to get done this morning but didnt really mind as the forcast still said 80% chance of rain and overcast for the day...by 1pm, the sun was out and temps at 19degs, crap, had committed to run today as dim sum in on the cards for tomorrow morning so off i went....was sunny for the 1st 10 and more or less cloudy for the last 10 and just as i turned the corner to my apt, it started to rain, typical! would have loved a run in the rain....

anyway got it done an in good enough time i think, HR was very low, maybe aerobically im am fitter than i think, but my leg strength is not there yet.

total weekly mileage: 50.5m

seanynova

finished last week with another 5.5m to make it 56m for the week.

this week i did:
mon: 5m easy
tues: 12m easy
wed:4m easy
thurs: 9holes of golf (shot 37 )
fri: 7.5m, 58:46mins @7:50m/m HR 158/186
26degs, evening

6x 0.62m Splits:
3:27(179)-5:34m/m
3:24(183)-5:30m/m
3:28(186)-5:36m/m
3:28(181)-5:36m/m
3:27(18X)-5:34m/m
3:26(18X)-5:32m/m

was rushed to get this done so the warm up/down was short by a mile each, but happy i got 6reps done, all about the same effort and prob could have done another 1 or 2, only i had no fluids on the run so mouth was very dry. happy with the even enough times also, typically 2-3secs faster and more even than last time i did this sesssion(2/3weeks ago)...only thing is im short on mileage this week now, might double up tomorrow.

total weekly mileage: 28.5m

theboyblunder

seanynova wrote: »

finished last week with another 5.5m to make it 56m for the week.

this week i did:
mon: 5m easy
tues: 12m easy
wed:4m easy
thurs: 9holes of golf (shot 37 )
fri: 7.5m, 58:46mins @7:50m/m HR 158/186
26degs, evening

6x 0.62m Splits:
3:27(179)-5:34m/m
3:24(183)-5:30m/m
3:28(186)-5:36m/m
3:28(181)-5:36m/m
3:27(18X)-5:34m/m
3:26(18X)-5:32m/m

was rushed to get this done so the warm up/down was short by a mile each, but happy i got 6reps done, all about the same effort and prob could have done another 1 or 2, only i had no fluids on the run so mouth was very dry. happy with the even enough times also, typically 2-3secs faster and more even than last time i did this sesssion(2/3weeks ago)...only thing is im short on mileage this week now, might double up tomorrow.

total weekly mileage: 28.5m

Hey good stuff seany, especially in 26C! Were at the same paces now - I think the reps early in the programme are starting to kick in now....

seanynova

theboyblunder wrote: »

Hey good stuff seany, especially in 26C! Were at the same paces now - I think the reps early in the programme are starting to kick in now....

i like that about the plan A, get the faster stuff in early and when the tempos come on week in week out they are a lot more comfortable(?)....was one thing i struggled with when deciding on a programme.

i went with elite Q2 session though, wanted to mix up the tempo stuff with faster stuff later on and see how i react....next two weeks for me are tempo now and then intervals again..kindo of a 3week cycle....ill see how it goes

seanynova

sat: 5m easy am; 5.5m easy pm (about 5hours apart)

sun: 21m, 2:48:28mins @8:01m/m HR 149/1XX 22deg sunny!

total weekly mileage 59m

had to cut a run short friday so to catch up on mileage i did a double session yesterday, but were in hot weather but ran easy.
this mornings run was harder, was hot and sunny and i was just tired from lack of sleep. got through it anyway although i stopped a few times to take on extra water, and get hosed down by someone watering their garden lol

seanynova

mon: 4m easy

tues: 5m easy

wed: 9m incl 4x 1m tempo, 1min rest, 5min rest and 2x 1m tempo again.

didnt go to plan, ran this earlier in the day for some stupid last min reason and was just after eating some crap food so really wasnt in the mood for this run, in fact dreading it all day...

did a 2mile warm up and after that took a break, wasnt feeling good, stomach was irritated, but after a bit got under way, as usual the 1st rep was easy, second started off too fast but i slowed it down but may have been my downfall, 3rd was hard but doable, and 4th was short by half mile ish, stoped at a water fountain and also to go to the jacks...took an extra recovery after that. convinced myself to do reps until i got to the highway, which was 1x 1mile and about 0.7m for the second....pace was way off again, cant get to grips with my tempo pace, i have no stats yet as my garmin wont upload but from memory they were 6:12-6:18ish, thats pretty slow for when i should be. it was 28degs though with a feels like factor of 34degs incl humidity...could the heat really be impeeding my runs? anybody with experience trying to do long hard sessions in the heat that much? is it worth 2, 4, 6, 8sec etc per mile?
it was ok on the intervals session last week though.

anyway, im wrecked all week so will cut the mileage short a bit, its a recovery week so an extra few less wont hurt

total weekly mileage: 18m

just found this calculator, anyone with ideas or it? i entered 10m in 1hour at 16degs, equivalent time at 29degs is 62:15, which is around 13secs/mile slower. ok, im doing 6x 1mile and not 10 straight but you get the picture.
http://www.runworks.com/calculator.html

theboyblunder

I wouldnt be able to put a figure on it but its got to be worth a decent chunk of time alright. 28 deg with high humidity would wreck any session for me.

Why not get out early? Ive recently done intervals in the morning before breakfast. Its probably not ideal training-wise, but I found I was close enough to my usual pace on them. Might be an idea for quality sessions under 10 miles or so.

seanynova

theboyblunder wrote: »

I wouldnt be able to put a figure on it but its got to be worth a decent chunk of time alright. 28 deg with high humidity would wreck any session for me.

Why not get out early? Ive recently done intervals in the morning before breakfast. Its probably not ideal training-wise, but I found I was close enough to my usual pace on them. Might be an idea for quality sessions under 10 miles or so.

couldnt get up that early mid week id say, work at 8 so by the time i shower etc id have to get up too early, although you are onto something, if i did it 1 day a week and shower at work then it might be worth it-ill think about it.
until then i will get up early at the weekends for the long run.

thinking about the temp after, it would slow thing down alright but prob not much over the 6min intervals, HR was also closer to PMP that tempo pace....just have to keep plugging away i suppose.

misty floyd

Hey Sean, going well man. When does the temperature start to ease off there? Sounds like hard work.

seanynova

misty floyd wrote: »

Hey Sean, going well man. When does the temperature start to ease off there? Sounds like hard work.

its hard work alright, im getting negative about it now too but ill keep plugging away...

not sure when it starts to get cooler, sept is supposed to be cool(ave high 18deg). Aug is usually cooler than july, by 1deg statistically. july this year was hotter and dryer than usual too though....safe bet is to say end of aug/early sept and ill be in a more comfortable temp range id say...approx 9weeks training.

how are you getting on these days? you training?

Killerz

seanynova wrote: »

just found this calculator, anyone with ideas or it? i entered 10m in 1hour at 16degs, equivalent time at 29degs is 62:15, which is around 13secs/mile slower. ok, im doing 6x 1mile and not 10 straight but you get the picture.
http://www.runworks.com/calculator.html

Quite an interesting calculator alright, seany. Makes a lot of sense. I think i get a bit hard on myself here in toronto with the crazy heat and humidity. But i think training throught the stifling heat of summer pays dividends in an autumn marathon when things cool down by c.20 degrees in some cases.

seanynova

Killerz wrote: »

Quite an interesting calculator alright, seany. Makes a lot of sense. I think i get a bit hard on myself here in toronto with the crazy heat and humidity. But i think training throught the stifling heat of summer pays dividends in an autumn marathon when things cool down by c.20 degrees in some cases.

hey killerz, sorry dude, im very bad for checking out peoples logs, didnt know you were in TO. ill keep an eye on your log from now on. whats the plan for chicago? how are you finding the going in TO?
i think the calculator is onto something alright but im wondering if it is accurate for training intervals like what i did..in saying that when like in TO is high 20s its fairly impossible to go as fast as you would in weather in the teens or something.

im *hoping* for a bit change in my training once the end of august comes around and the temps drop to los 20s and more....hopefully we will see better things when it comes to long runs and paced runs where dyhydration etc are big factors....live in hope.

hey, i actually got a message for a lad in TO doing the 10miler next week...ill pass on your details if you dont mind. he is training for the waterfront marathon i think in oct.

good luck with your training, as i say ill keep an eye on it.

seanynova

wed:9.0m, 1:10:29mins @7:49m/m avHR161 28degs early evening!

4x 1m Tempo Splits:
6:15(167/174)
6:12(171/177)
6:14(174/178)
6:10(174/183) - 0.56m
2x 1m Tempo Splits:
6:25(175)
6:18(???)

thurs: rest

fri: 5m easy
sat: 3m easy - misty, im not obsessed but got this in between a wedding cermony and reception...lol. in my defence there was a 4hour break

sun:16m, 1:59:41mins @7:28m/m HR 161/178
25degs evening

5x 6min Tempo(HR):
6:10(169/173)
6:10(170/175)
6:09(172/176)
6:11(173/177)
6:13(174/178)
3min Tempo:
6:08(171/178)

total weekly mileage: 42m
phase 2 complete - 6weeks ave mileage 49/wk.

todays long run was the day after a wedding, and to point out it was a chineese wedding cermony with a 12course meal, it was unreal! anyway, long story short, there was no way i was getting up early to do this run today so left it off until the evening..which wasnt so bad luckily. temp was at 25degs but prob dropped to 22degs by the end of the run. tempo pace seems so hard without the HR backing it up....my HR stats for DCM last year were averaging 177/178 ish for training tempos at 6min tempos so in that sense i should have more in the tank, but i dont!
cut the last 6min tempo short as i stopped at the water fountain, was gasping and my mouth was really dry, had ran 8miles at that stage and 33min at tempo pace so a drop of water was well needed.

back to higher mileage next week but going away for the weekend so not sure what ill end up doing.

misty floyd

seanynova wrote: »

its hard work alright, im getting negative about it now too but ill keep plugging away...

not sure when it starts to get cooler, sept is supposed to be cool(ave high 18deg). Aug is usually cooler than july, by 1deg statistically. july this year was hotter and dryer than usual too though....safe bet is to say end of aug/early sept and ill be in a more comfortable temp range id say...approx 9weeks training.

how are you getting on these days? you training?

Not obsessed at all Sean That chinese wedding sounds interesting, well fuelled for the next days run I suppose.
Yeah I'm training. Had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday after weeks of not feeling it. 18m with last 5m in 32.30. I was listening to Led Zeppelin for the last 5m, hence the faster than marathon pace effort. I'd been struggling to finish 16m easy. Its funny how one run can totally change your attitude.

Gringo78

seanynova wrote: »

i have no stats yet as my garmin wont upload but from memory they were 6:12-6:18ish, thats pretty slow for when i should be. it was 28degs though with a feels like factor of 34degs incl humidity...could the heat really be impeeding my runs? anybody with experience trying to do long hard sessions in the heat that much? is it worth 2, 4, 6, 8sec etc per mile?
it was ok on the intervals session last week though.

anyway, im wrecked all week so will cut the mileage short a bit, its a recovery week so an extra few less wont hurt

total weekly mileage: 18m

just found this calculator, anyone with ideas or it? i entered 10m in 1hour at 16degs, equivalent time at 29degs is 62:15, which is around 13secs/mile slower. ok, im doing 6x 1mile and not 10 straight but you get the picture.
http://www.runworks.com/calculator.html

In Daniels Running Formula 1st Edition he had a table which suggested a slowdown of 1sec/mile/deg above 16degC. He did not include this in current 2nd edition of book but that would back up the calculator above you quoted which says 13sec/mile difference over 16-29degC temperature rise.

I ran in the past in Carribean & hottest part of south eastern turkey (>40degC) and the heat definetly takes it out of you but it'll stand to you. Just make sure you don't get dehydrated as I left myself drift a bit too close to the edge in the past and its not a good idea - you seem to be doing good so far though.

Killerz

Hey seany, ya, i'm pretty bad at following logs myself.... Try to catch up on them when i'm not too crazy busy. I didnt catch exactly where in canada you're based?

Hoping to get down to just under the 3 hour mark in chicago all going well. I trained through the lovely toronto summer last year for the waterfront marathon, where i got my BQ, then trained through the winter here for Boston and a 3:01 odd here in toronto in horrendous wind and rain. So, a solid few weeks now and a decent day in chicago is what i'm hoping for.

The guy doing the 10 miler got in touch alright- seems to be located quite close to me here downtown toronto.

seanynova

misty floyd wrote: »

Not obsessed at all Sean That chinese wedding sounds interesting, well fuelled for the next days run I suppose.
Yeah I'm training. Had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday after weeks of not feeling it. 18m with last 5m in 32.30. I was listening to Led Zeppelin for the last 5m, hence the faster than marathon pace effort. I'd been struggling to finish 16m easy. Its funny how one run can totally change your attitude.

good stuff, that nice and lively for the last few miles....you doing much tempo stuff? 4x 10mins kind of thing? they work well for you last year.

the wedding was very good, when the vietnameese bride was walking upto the alter, the chineese groom was playing a little tune on his guitar.......falling slowly - glen hansard of all people!!!
i had to be roled out of the venue from all the food after, kind of services buffet style with lasy susan table (rotating centre peice)...happy days!

seanynova

Gringo78 wrote: »

In Daniels Running Formula 1st Edition he had a table which suggested a slowdown of 1sec/mile/deg above 16degC. He did not include this in current 2nd edition of book but that would back up the calculator above you quoted which says 13sec/mile difference over 16-29degC temperature rise.

I ran in the past in Carribean & hottest part of south eastern turkey (>40degC) and the heat definetly takes it out of you but it'll stand to you. Just make sure you don't get dehydrated as I left myself drift a bit too close to the edge in the past and its not a good idea - you seem to be doing good so far though.

if defo costs something but hard to know how much on the shorter intervals....to be honest it could be me more that the weather as it wasn't 'too' warm sunday night and i was still struggling....although, i was getting a little dehyrdated (thirsty!)

you will be trying to avoid the carribean and trukey this summer i take it! be a nice break in november all the same!!

how is you training going? any good sessions completed lately? how is your tempo pace looking these days? i recokon for myself i need to be at least as low as 6:06m/m to be in with a shot of 2:50 marathon, differrent for other people though.

seanynova

Killerz wrote: »

Hey seany, ya, i'm pretty bad at following logs myself.... Try to catch up on them when i'm not too crazy busy. I didnt catch exactly where in canada you're based?

Hoping to get down to just under the 3 hour mark in chicago all going well. I trained through the lovely toronto summer last year for the waterfront marathon, where i got my BQ, then trained through the winter here for Boston and a 3:01 odd here in toronto in horrendous wind and rain. So, a solid few weeks now and a decent day in chicago is what i'm hoping for.

The guy doing the 10 miler got in touch alright- seems to be located quite close to me here downtown toronto.

if i told you where i am in canada you might not have heard of it lol....na, im in the peg, its not exactly top of the list for many people but when your dating a canadian girl, sometimes you just dont have a choice...lol.
have you been? the sun here is VERY strong, strongest i felt in canada, its not known for humidity but this year has been a bit humid, not much rain and like TO temps regularly in the 30s (40s with humidex).
i also ran a lot in montreal, a lot more hmid there but sun not as strong, even with same temps if you know what i mean.

ive been to TO a few times too, good spot, used to run along king/queen st out to the park, small kind of loop.
seems like you are well prepared for an assault on sub3, obviously been close and with a good day weather wise you should be ok.

how are you finding paces compared to your winter paces?

seanynova

mon: had a cool day with a drizzle of rain....murphys law though as it came on a recovery run....lol

6.0m, 48:32mins @8:05m/m HR 143/156
19degs wet!

to compare, HR for last year for similar pace...9 weeks out from marathon(above is 12 weeks out)
5m, 40:15mins @8:03m/m avHR149 18degs ish.

so looking ok on the aerobic capacity side of things if thats the right way to put it, although i kind of knew that as all my runs are ran with low HR, im just running lazy, maybe i should run faster on easy runs?

got a new pair of shoes today, after putting 400m+ on my waveriders, which may have been a bad idea as i prob should be wearing support shoes(?), i got a pair of brooks ravenna2....for a staggering $170!!! be cheaper to ship them from home! but that folks is the going rate here in the land of oppertunity! but the shoes feel good and a feel a lot better than the old mizuno's...1st impression good.

total weekly mileage: 6m

Gringo78

seanynova wrote: »

if defo costs something but hard to know how much on the shorter intervals....to be honest it could be me more that the weather as it wasn't 'too' warm sunday night and i was still struggling....although, i was getting a little dehyrdated (thirsty!)

you will be trying to avoid the carribean and trukey this summer i take it! be a nice break in november all the same!!

how is you training going? any good sessions completed lately? how is your tempo pace looking these days? i recokon for myself i need to be at least as low as 6:06m/m to be in with a shot of 2:50 marathon, differrent for other people though.

Training was going good but stomach problems took me out for a few weeks and only back into things in the last few days but I'm still in good shape and am a lot better prepared further out than I have been in other years so not too worried about 2 poor weeks training with 12 weeks still to go.

I'm doing things in reverse to you - training in the cold and then racing a half marathon in september in southern Spain in what is likely to be 30degC.

2 sessions a week is all I'm doing - one 18 miler with reps of PMP miles thrown in ( like 5,4,3,2,1 or 4x3miles) and one 14-16miler with tempo miles (last one was 14min-12min-10min-8min). Their B*stardised Daniels sessions which I find great. I have a concern that I am changing the way I trained before which was long runs slow & then PMP miles in seperate sessions but due to fitting everything in I am forced to go this way so hopefully it works out - I'm getting lots more miles in though and generally have seen dramatic improvement when I have a sustained few weeks of >40mpw.

Pace wise I am training to HR so the paces do vary week to week but I am hitting around 2:47 pace for PMP miles and average 6:00 pace for tempo minutes around now although to be honest they are dropping fast with improvement week by week so they haven't plateaued yet which is a good sign.

Killerz

Havent had the pleasure of visiting the peg yet i'm afraid! Liking toronto a lot- plenty to do, and plenty to distract me from running!

I would say my paces in training are at their best from march-may and in sep and oct, which are perfect running months usually. While the humidity does slow me down, its more vs springtime than winter, as i have to change my running style in winter so as to cope with snow.

seanynova

Gringo78 wrote: »

Training was going good but stomach problems took me out for a few weeks and only back into things in the last few days but I'm still in good shape and am a lot better prepared further out than I have been in other years so not too worried about 2 poor weeks training with 12 weeks still to go.

I'm doing things in reverse to you - training in the cold and then racing a half marathon in september in southern Spain in what is likely to be 30degC.

2 sessions a week is all I'm doing - one 18 miler with reps of PMP miles thrown in ( like 5,4,3,2,1 or 4x3miles) and one 14-16miler with tempo miles (last one was 14min-12min-10min-8min). Their B*stardised Daniels sessions which I find great. I have a concern that I am changing the way I trained before which was long runs slow & then PMP miles in seperate sessions but due to fitting everything in I am forced to go this way so hopefully it works out - I'm getting lots more miles in though and generally have seen dramatic improvement when I have a sustained few weeks of >40mpw.

Pace wise I am training to HR so the paces do vary week to week but I am hitting around 2:47 pace for PMP miles and average 6:00 pace for tempo minutes around now although to be honest they are dropping fast with improvement week by week so they haven't plateaued yet which is a good sign.

good going gringo, paces are well above where you need to be at this stage, looking good for the race. your right not to worry about the missed training this far out as 12 weeks training on top of a good build up seams to be enough for most people....are you going to race any other race in the build up? hope you get good conditions and will give you a good indicator at least of where your are race pace wise. but if you know your on HR/paces then you should have a fair idea of PMP anwyay.
with regards to your session, i have recently being referred to renato canavo, the long sessions apparantly have a lot of PMP stuff....

anyway, keep it going gringo...check in with an update in a few weeks or something