Isolateral vs Bilateral Exercises

Banks

What are trainers opinions on the use of isolateral movements rather than bilateral exercises when developing hypertrophy,strength or power in field sport athletes (GAA,soccer, rugby,hockey etc). Do you think isolateral movements are safer and more applicable than bilateral movements for these athletes?

bubbleking

you mean unilateral?

Banks

Isolateral/unilateral

Brian?

Banks wrote: »

What are trainers opinions on the use of isolateral movements rather than bilateral exercises when developing hypertrophy,strength or power in field sport athletes (GAA,soccer, rugby,hockey etc). Do you think isolateral movements are safer and more applicable than bilateral movements for these athletes?

I don't really understand this question to be honest. Surely athletes need to do both uni and bilateral excercises.

Banks

briankeating wrote: »

Banks wrote: »

What are trainers opinions on the use of isolateral movements rather than bilateral exercises when developing hypertrophy,strength or power in field sport athletes (GAA,soccer, rugby,hockey etc). Do you think isolateral movements are safer and more applicable than bilateral movements for these athletes?

I don't really understand this question to be honest. Surely athletes need to do both uni and bilateral excercises.

Yeah but why do field sport athletes need to do a back squat/front squat for example, do coaches think a split squat would be more applicable in this case? Just want people's opinions, throwing around ideas for an msc in this area!

Brian?

Banks wrote: »

Yeah but why do field sport athletes need to do a back squat/front squat for example, do coaches think a split squat would be more applicable in this case? Just want people's opinions, throwing around ideas for an msc in this area!

Ahh, I sees. Unfortunatly there are not many coaches posting on the forum anymore. Haven't a clue myself.

Hanley

Banks wrote: »

Yeah but why do field sport athletes need to do a back squat/front squat for example, do coaches think a split squat would be more applicable in this case? Just want people's opinions, throwing around ideas for an msc in this area!

Are you aware of Mike Boyle's writing and beliefs on the topic? That'd be a good starting point against the squat.

Not saying that I agree with it tho.

d'Oracle

OP.

Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson have written a lot about this topic.
They both have done online articles and Robertson has written a full book on unilateral leg stuff....I think.

Banks

Oh I know well about his thoughts on the topic, Just wondering what Irish coaches thoughts were on the subject?

mushykeogh

Both have a place. Most field/court sports obviously have a huge single leg component. Wouldnt be ditching squats and deadlifts anytime soon.
Single leg stuff great for improving hip mobility of the tight/lazy feicers that either wont stretch or clue in to their warm up properly.

Whats the msc idea?

cmyk

Banks wrote: »

What are trainers opinions on the use of isolateral movements rather than bilateral exercises when developing hypertrophy,strength or power in field sport athletes (GAA,soccer, rugby,hockey etc). Do you think isolateral movements are safer and more applicable than bilateral movements for these athletes?

I don't train athletes, but I do read quite a bit on the subject, as there's plenty to be learnt from this area. My personal opinion is that it should very much depend on the individual, and their abilities/ strengths/ weaknesses/sport/position within that sport etc, too many variables to give a yes or no answer.

Banks wrote: »

Yeah but why do field sport athletes need to do a back squat/front squat for example, do coaches think a split squat would be more applicable in this case? Just want people's opinions, throwing around ideas for an msc in this area!

Interesting idea for an msc. Best of luck with it and keep us updated with progress. If you're serious, why not track down some S&C coaches around the country?

Banks wrote: »

Oh I know well about his thoughts on the topic, Just wondering what Irish coaches thoughts were on the subject?

I'd imagine most Irish coaches would be well read with regard to those guys, and would think along similar lines. We don't have those sorts of facilities here that can measure the level and volume of athletic data they've amounted over the years, nor do people seem to; unfortunately put much of a value on such facilities.

My own personal opinion is that unilateral exercise such as sled pushing/pulling is probably the most applicable training to field sports, rather than split squats etc, as well as actually practicing/playing their sport.

Banks

mushykeogh wrote: »

Both have a place. Most field/court sports obviously have a huge single leg component. Wouldnt be ditching squats and deadlifts anytime soon.
Single leg stuff great for improving hip mobility of the tight/lazy feicers that either wont stretch or clue in to their warm up properly.

Whats the msc idea?

I do believe that both have a place in any S&C program. Im a S&C coach myself and my belief is that it is safer and 90% more applicable to prescribe single leg RDL/split squats over front/back squats, and deadlifts. My reason for this is that when a squat/deadlift fails, it generally fails at the lifters back/core as opposed to the targeted primary muscles. Secondly, A person who can squat 200kg, should be able to split squat 100kg each leg. From what I have seen over the years, most people cant do that, thus meaning there could be an asymmetry, possibly leading to an injury. This is only my opinion, open to constructive criticism.

Hanley

Banks wrote: »

Secondly, A person who can squat 200kg, should be able to split squat 100kg each leg. From what I have seen over the years, most people cant do that, thus meaning there could be an asymmetry, possibly leading to an injury. This is only my opinion, open to constructive criticism.

No it just means they haven't done the lift before and never acquired the necessary skill/neural control to do it!

cmyk

Banks wrote: »

I do believe that both have a place in any S&C program. Im a S&C coach myself and my belief is that it is safer and 90% more applicable to prescribe single leg RDL/split squats over front/back squats, and deadlifts. My reason for this is that when a squat/deadlift fails, it generally fails at the lifters back/core as opposed to the targeted primary muscles.

That's fine, but do you not think that single leg work puts more stress on other joints instead? Hips/Knees/Ankles?

Banks wrote: »

Secondly, A person who can squat 200kg, should be able to split squat 100kg each leg. From what I have seen over the years, most people cant do that, thus meaning there could be an asymmetry, possibly leading to an injury. This is only my opinion, open to constructive criticism.

I'm surprised to hear this. If I can do 50 air squats, does that mean I should be able to do 25 pistols on each leg? There's too many factors to be able to state that, I'd also suggest that if you're chasing those sort of numbers with your athletes it could possible be injurious. That's also not my understanding of an asymmetry. An asymmetry is an imbalance from one side or plane to the other, either in strength or movement.

mushykeogh

Banks wrote: »

My reason for this is that when a squat/deadlift fails, it generally fails at the lifters back/core as opposed to the targeted primary muscles. Secondly, A person who can squat 200kg, should be able to split squat 100kg each leg.

I thought the relationship between bilateral/unilateral lifts has been explained in the literature, cant remember where tho. Its not an applicable formula as mentioned previously, 10 pull ups do not correlate to 5 one arm pull ups and so on. Will single leg strength have a greater impact on power output/ VJ compared with bilateral stuff could be a good path to head down.

Hanley wrote: »

No it just means they haven't done the lift before and never acquired the necessary skill/neural control to do it!

And this will be a crucial thing to sort out for a study, ideally you will need people experienced with bi and unilateral work to negate the learning effects that will occur if someone starts doing 1leg stuff. Their 1rm will improve massively from the start, depending on what your measuring it could skew your results.

Mellor

cmyk wrote: »

I'm surprised to hear this. If I can do 50 air squats, does that mean I should be able to do 25 pistols on each leg?

That's not what he said. He said they should be able to do half the load.
Your sugestting the same load for half the reps. Which is totally different, I don't think anybody would suggest that.

(i'm not sayign he is right btw, just pointing out that your lookign at it wrong)

cmyk

Mellor wrote: »

Your sugestting the same load for half the reps. Which is totally different, I don't think anybody would suggest that.

You're entirely correct Mellor, I was up all that night sick and genuinely don't even remember making that post...and looking back I'm not even sure of the point I was trying to make.

Mellor

That pistols are pretty goddamn hard? :D:D

mushykeogh

Mellor wrote: »

That's not what he said. He said they should be able to do half the load.
Your sugestting the same load for half the reps. Which is totally different, I don't think anybody would suggest that.

(i'm not sayign he is right btw, just pointing out that your looking at it wrong)

Yea, we slightly misread that! point is bilateral load doesnt translate directly to 50% load for uni stuff.

Banks, would you consider doing a thesis on fatigue? Profile your players( get a rough idea of fibre type, are they speed players, endurance types) use a fitrodyne or vert jump mat to monitor their timecourse to recovery after different training loads. HRV would be great to include if you could access a team that uses it.