New subforum in Athletics/Running/Triathlon

RayCun

Hi everyone,

Following some discussion among the moderators, we've decided to create a new subforum - Triathlon/Duathlon/Adventure Racing

The reasoning is simple. Although there is a substantial overlap of interests between triathletes/duathletes/adventure racers and runners, there are a lot of threads that don't overlap. This is a substantial subject area, with 40-50 active threads in the last week or so, so there is more than enough activity to sustain a subforum. And it's an area that could use the attention of a moderator who knows the subject.

When this subforum is created (it will take a few days) all multisport threads will be moved to the subforum, including events, gear, and training logs. The subforum will have a dedicated moderator, though the existing mods will also be responsible for the subforum.

Any thoughts?

tunney

And we go full circle.

Perhaps we should just bite the bullet and change back to AR and have a completely separate T as it was before.

TheRoadRunner

tunney wrote: »

And we go full circle.

Perhaps we should just bite the bullet and change back to AR and have a completely separate T as it was before.

Jesus I must have had a personality change recently as I'm agreeing with tunney a lot these days. I've a pain in my hole as it is with sub forums. I've no interest in triathlon and a separate forum makes sense to me. Are any of the current mods triathletes?

catweazle

RayCun wrote: »

The subforum will have a dedicated moderator

Any thoughts?

Psalm 37:30
The mouth of the righteous man utters wisdom, and his tongue speaks what is just.

Step forward Tunny to a higher calling

RayCun

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Jesus I must have had a personality change recently as I'm agreeing with tunney a lot these days. I've a pain in my hole as it is with sub forums. I've no interest in triathlon and a separate forum makes sense to me. Are any of the current mods triathletes?

I think woddle has done one or two, but it's not his focus.

Whenever this was discussed before, some people said that they liked the linkage between running and triathlon, and there is some obvious overlap. (Though there's the same overlap with swimming and cycling) A subforum keeps that linkage, but means the triathletes who aren't interested in running and the runners who aren't interested in triathlon can avoid each other.

Creating a completely new forum would be a much bigger deal, I think you'd need a vote to demonstrate to the admins that there is sufficient interest in the idea. But if the separatists want to agitate for a split they can do so in the new subforum.

griffin100

What makes you think triathletes are interested in adventure racing and vice versa? Lumping all multisport events together shows little understanding of the different sports concerned. Anyway, why do runners and triathletes need to 'avoid' each other?

Like Tunney I'm here long enough to remember when running / athletics was a separate forum to marathon / triathlon. One of the arguments against merging the tri / mara forum with athletics was that the athletics guys were a lot more elitist and wouldn't take kindly to triathlon in their forum...................and it would seem it has come full circle.

ThisRegard

Will triathletes want to share a forum with us non-clothing coordinated scruffs ! There may be turf war to decide who roles the roost

Nwm2

griffin100 wrote: »

What makes you think triathletes are interested in adventure racing and vice versa? Lumping all multisport events together shows little understanding of the different sports concerned. Anyway, why do runners and triathletes need to 'avoid' each other?

Like Tunney I'm here long enough to remember when running / athletics was a separate forum to marathon / triathlon. One of the arguments against merging the tri / mara forum with athletics was that the athletics guys were a lot more elitist and wouldn't take kindly to triathlon in their forum...................and it would seem it has come full circle.

Running was separate to Marathon???? And together with Triathlon??? Holy crap, that was nuts.

I see the benefit of Triathlon being separate (although with 4000 TI members, is it big enough for a forum of its own?). And if Adventure Racing gets a mention, it does look to be a better fit with triathlon than running.

Oryx

Triathlon = multisport event. Adventure race = multisport event. You do get Triathletes doing ARs (just to keep the IMRA guys on their toes. ) I see a fair overlap.

tunney

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Jesus I must have had a personality change recently as I'm agreeing with tunney a lot these days. I've a pain in my hole as it is with sub forums. I've no interest in triathlon and a separate forum makes sense to me. Are any of the current mods triathletes?

Sub forums and mega threads kill things. I've learnt so much about garmin 310xts and I'm fvcked if I am posting for it all to be merged into a mega thread and for it to hurt my head trying to read them.

I don't think any of the mods are triathletes. Somtimes I question if some of them are athletes at all

mloc123

I have no interest in adventure races, in fact I kinda dislike then... I doubt as a 'triathlete' I am alone on that. Duathlons in Ireland have a 2 month season. So basically we will have another dead subforum on here.

Oryx

tunney, you mostly doubt that ANY of us are athletes so that don't count. .

tunney

RayCun wrote: »

Whenever this was discussed before, some people said that they liked the linkage between running and triathlon, and there is some obvious overlap. (Though there's the same overlap with swimming and cycling) A subforum keeps that linkage, but means the triathletes who aren't interested in running and the runners who aren't interested in triathlon can avoid each other.

Break the link completely - maybe this would be the kick in the hole ART needs.

griffin100 wrote: »

What makes you think triathletes are interested in adventure racing and vice versa? Lumping all multisport events together shows little understanding of the different sports concerned. Anyway, why do runners and triathletes need to 'avoid' each other?

I know very few triathletes interested in adventure racing. In fact the more I read the less I see Adventure Racers being interested in what passes for an Adventure Race these days. I know nothing about AR nor do I have an opnion on AR other than I'm not fussed.

griffin100 wrote: »

Like Tunney I'm here long enough to remember when running / athletics was a separate forum to marathon / triathlon. One of the arguments against merging the tri / mara forum with athletics was that the athletics guys were a lot more elitist and wouldn't take kindly to triathlon in their forum...................and it would seem it has come full circle.

Nope that was why the marathon people didn't want the merge.

Nwm2 wrote: »

Running was separate to Marathon???? And together with Triathlon??? Holy crap, that was nuts.

Running was the pointy end of things. If you ran >35 for a 10km you posted on the marathon board.

Nwm2 wrote: »

I see the benefit of Triathlon being separate (although with 4000 TI members, is it big enough for a forum of its own?). And if Adventure Racing gets a mention, it does look to be a better fit with triathlon than running.

AR - stick it in fads?

Oryx wrote: »

Triathlon = multisport event. Adventure race = multisport event. You do get Triathletes doing ARs (just to keep the IMRA guys on their toes. ) I see a fair overlap.

Alot of triathletes drive. Should Triathlon be a sub forum of motoring?

Oryx

@tunney. Not unless most of em race Mondello at the weekends.

RayCun

tunney wrote: »

Break the link [between running and triathlon] completely - maybe this would be the kick in the hole ART needs.

That is always an option, but as I said, it's a larger decision. Creating a new subforum is fairly easy to get done, because it's internal to A/R/T. Splitting the forum would require a different level of approval, it would be a longer process and I think you'd need to demonstrate that there is enough interest to sustain a forum. (There probably is, but you'd have to show it)

Or you could just request a Real Athletes forum - only sub10 Ironman athletes, sub 3 marathoners, sub60 10 milers or sub 5 milers need apply :rolleyes:

griffin100
What makes you think triathletes are interested in adventure racing and vice versa? Lumping all multisport events together shows little understanding of the different sports concerned.

Swimming/cycling/running, cycling/running and cycling/kayaking/running do have areas in common, and I'd imagine a fair amount of participant overlap. And Adventure Racing and Duathlon aren't busy enough subjects to sustain their own fora.

You might as well ask why Triathlon is lumped together with running.

G-Money

No interest in triathlon or adventure stuff myself so from a selfish point of view, I wouldn't miss it if the forum was moved.

As for it being a lot of extra work to create a new forum for it, I'm not sure that's totally the case. Surely it's just a case of quickly creating a new forum on the backend of the system and setting up any links. Fairly quick to do I would imagine. From the sounds of it a new mod is going to be needed anyway so there's no extra effort there.

RayCun

G-Money wrote: »

As for it being a lot of extra work to create a new forum for it, I'm not sure that's totally the case.

More red tape

G-Money

RayCun wrote: »

More red tape

That sounds a bit more like it alright

griffin100

Given that triathlon has as much in common with cycling or swimming as it does with running perhaps it should be a sub forum of the cycling or swimming forums? Maybe a standalone triathlon forum is now due?

IMO the current arrangement works well and doesn't need change. The 3 subfora cover the key areas and apart from the equipment one are busy with a reasonable turnover of threads.

TheRoadRunner

RayCun wrote: »

Or you could just request a Real Athletes forum - only sub10 Ironman athletes, sub 3 marathoners, sub60 10 milers or sub 5 milers need

As homer Simpson would say

"I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter"

gombeen99

A triathlon sub-forum in either running, swimming or cycling would work IMO. Most triathletes are interested in the above 3 sports anyway but a separate sub-forum would be good to keep more control on threads & posts. Ideally a separate tri forum altogether, I don't see how this would be such a big deal to setup!

Pherekydes

RayCun wrote: »

Or you could just request a Real Athletes forum - only sub10 Ironman athletes, sub 3 marathoners, sub60 10 milers or sub 5 milers need apply :rolleyes:

Real athletes jump, throw, hurdle and sprint. :rolleyes:

couerdelion

The problem with Triathlon is that it is 3 sports all that currently have their own forum. I dip in and out of them all but as runningis the easiest to train for (least equipment needed) then I am probably in here the most.

There aren't that many of us really who post in here regulalry (20 ish?) and if were put in a sub-forum they're be less to posts so less reason to visit and we'll get lost especially for those new to the sport looking for us.

Now if you could somehow do it so we become a sub-forum of all three then that would be ideal.

PatientBear

Oryx wrote: »

Triathlon = multisport event. Adventure race = multisport event. You do get Triathletes doing ARs (just to keep the IMRA guys on their toes. ) I see a fair overlap.

I'd agree with this. I think the tri and the AR would go well together as the AR's typically share some disciplines (even if it is mountain biking rather than road racing) and a lot of the long-course guys will dabble in the AR to shake things up a bit.

Marathons should just go under running as it's still the same discipline.

copacetic

Seems a bit random to put adventure races in with tri. Would fit better with a hill/Mtn running forum. Just separate out tri if something needs to be.

(which I'm not suggesting)

We had it this way before, so meh either way.

thirtyfoot

Pherekydes wrote: »

Real athletes jump, throw, hurdle and sprint. :rolleyes:

Don't forget the ones that putt and vault and even 'chase.

thirtyfoot

It was crazy before as you had Athletics and then Marathon/Tri (I think). I pushed before to get Marathon brought under Athletics (or athletics/running) as that made most sense as regards replicating the way the sport functions in the real world. To me it was logical for Tri to have its own forum.

Pherekydes

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Don't forget the ones that putt and vault and even 'chase.

Putting is throwing in a pushing motion. Vaulting is definitely jumping, with the aid of a pole. Steeplechasing: no comment.

I never liked Triathlon as part of Athletics. I consider it a separate sport to Athletics, Swimming or Cycling, even though these guys are swimmers, cyclists and athletes runners.

Also, the comment that Adventure Running/Racing is better categorised with Mountain running/outdoor pursuits is correct, IMO.

tunney

couerdelion wrote: »

The problem with Triathlon is that it is 3 sports all that currently have their own forum. I dip in and out of them all but as runningis the easiest to train for (least equipment needed) then I am probably in here the most.

There aren't that many of us really who post in here regulalry (20 ish?) and if were put in a sub-forum they're be less to posts so less reason to visit and we'll get lost especially for those new to the sport looking for us.

Now if you could somehow do it so we become a sub-forum of all three then that would be ideal.

There used to be alot more active triathletes on boards.ie. Alot more.

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

There used to be alot more active triathletes on boards.ie. Alot more.

So where are they now? Retired? You seem to be making a point that they left in protest or something.

No forum on boards remains static. Membership changes all the time. Maybe a sub forum will create a stronger core group of tri posters. Maybe it will actually draw more traffic as tri related threads won't get lost in threads on marathon running and track. (At the moment it can be hard to see what threads are about till you look at them as titles can be cryptic).

The mods are trying this in an effort to improve the forum. I don't see a hell of a lot to be lost by giving it a shot.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

tunney wrote: »

There used to be alot more active triathletes on boards.ie. Alot more.

So where are they now? Retired? You seem to be making a point that they left in protest or something.

No forum on boards remains static. Membership changes all the time. Maybe a sub forum will create a stronger core group of tri posters. Maybe it will actually draw more traffic as tri related threads won't get lost in threads on marathon running and track. (At the moment it can be hard to see what threads are about till you look at them as titles can be cryptic).

The mods are trying this in an effort to improve the forum. I don't see a hell of a lot to be lost by giving it a shot.

Some retired.
Some left in protest over various things.
More no longer post much.
More have moved on places with a different atmosphere.

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

Some retired.
Some left in protest over various things.
More no longer post much.
More have moved on places with a different atmosphere.

All the more reason to shake things up then.

Zuppy

Let's just re open the marathon / triathlon forum. I presume it is still there but just hidden (and yes I have no grasp of the electronic arts).

It was a great mix. Despite the separate athletics forum. At the time, ironman was all the rage (funny but it still is and there is limited threads on it here)

As for sub 3 hr marathon threads, we need more of them. And sub 10 ironman threads. I probably won't ever do either but I find the posts extreme informative.

Too many sub forum are just clutter.

--amadeus--

FWIW I think it's a good idea. And it should be possible to have it showing as a linked sub forum in the Swimming and Cycling sub forums as well as long as teh local Mods were ok with that.

I read somewhere that Tri is the fastest growing sport in Ireland, should easily have enough volume to support a forum

Enduro

Not being a triathlete I've no opinion either way on where it belongs.

But I am one of the more experienced Adventure Racers in Ireland. I'm not sure that combining it in a sub-forum with Triathalon is an approprite home for it. There is little or no overlap between Triathletes and Adventure Racers. The multi-sports challenge type races (GFs, WARs, ROARs etc etc) do have an overlap with both worlds though (And in spirit the multisport challenge races are much closer to triathalon than to Adventure Racing).

Kayaking is a key sport of AR, so if there are subforum links then that's another one to include. Also Navigation is is the most important aspect of AR, so a link to Outdoor pursuits might also be worthwhile (A few AR related threads have shown up there over the years)

Out of interest, what name would be used for the sub-forum? "Multisports Races"?

RayCun

Enduro wrote: »

Out of interest, what name would be used for the sub-forum? "Multisports Races"?

Triathlon/Duathlon/Adventure Races
just to make it completely obvious what it contains.

Links from Cycling, Swiming, Kayaking and Outdoor Pursuits are good ideas, I'll chase them up when the subforum has been created. (or maybe the new mod will )

TFBubendorfer

Am I alone in that I quite liked tris in here? I'm a runner and I very much doubt I would ever have done a tri if I had not read so much about them in this forum, but I'm glad I did.

Macanri

I'm happy the way things are now. Leave it be I say.

shotgunmcos

I think 'Triathlon' is a meaty enough sport to have a home of its own. For several reasons.
- Its growing fast.
- The Tri training logs are most populated relative for their number amongst all the running logs (correct me if I'm wrong).
- It will reduce the rather annoying recurrence of the triathlete vs runner muck that goes on.
- It will no doubt have a bunch of sub-fora itself, logs, IM, Gear etc..
- It could have links to the cycling forum bringing them nosing in, and to the swim forum injecting more life to that. - The first time triathlete thread could be a sticky with FAQs to limit the recurrence of common novice threads.
- There will be less digging amongst the bits and bobs to find something worth more than a glance, again relatively speaking.
-There is no decent Irish Tri related Forum at the moment

Personally, although the initial idea of the current sub fora was good,I feel that the Forum as a whole is cluttered. This is not a bad thing in one sense. On the contrary the increased interest in Tri, Adventure stuff and Running has created a busy environment but with so much going on you barely have time to read it let alone post it. Also the DCM just takes over the whole shop in September/October

Marathon belongs to Running and Running belongs to Athletics **runs for cover...**

Adventure Racing deserves more than to be lumped in with running or Tri IMO. From what I know of this world AR folk on the whole are a bunch of hill adrenalin junkies runner/kayaker/mountain bikers...

While a 'multi sport' forum seems like a good idea, I personally think its too vague and will end up being just as cluttered if not more than the room as is.

So, take Tri out and give it a new home. Do whatever makes the AR lads n lassies happy then squabble about the order of the room with Don Chorleone, D'Pop and his new Consigliore Raycun

Oryx

Does AR have enough activity to warrant its own zone? Surely it would need to have connections to mountain running then. Which is a whole other can o worms. I was under the impression that if you train in more than one discipline, as both tri and AR do, then you would have some common ground?

Zuppy

RayCun wrote: »

Triathlon/Duathlon/Adventure Races
just to make it completely obvious what it contains.

Links from Cycling, Swiming, Kayaking and Outdoor Pursuits are good ideas, I'll chase them up when the subforum has been created. (or maybe the new mod will )

Should we not wait for more people to weigh in with opinions before creating sub fora? I see a trend of either leave it be or create new fora.

Pisco Sour

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

Should we not wait for more people to weigh in with opinions before creating sub fora? I see a trend of either leave it be or create new fora.

Agreed. Put it to the people. Democracy please

ThisRegard

Oryx wrote: »

Does AR have enough activity to warrant its own zone?

I wouldn't have thought so, you get a glut of posts at the end of spring peaking at the end of Summer around Gaelforce and then it will be a pretty vacant place until the next season as there aren't a whole of races going on past Achill in the middle of September. (multisport races of course, I'm sure there's lot of hardcore races still going on around the world but not many around here partake in those)

RayCun

04072511 wrote: »

Put it to the people.

But put what to the people? This is like that old thread about a Boards top where everyone had lots of great ideas for added features :rolleyes: There aren't many people objecting to a subforum per se, but there are people who want a whole new forum, or don't want to include adventure racers, or would like links to other related fora, or would like to go back to marathon/triathlon...

Starting a new subforum can be the start of the discussion, not the end of it. It would make sense (to me) to let it run for a few weeks, see what is working and what isn't, and move on from there. Maybe the adventure racers will keep fighting with the triathletes, or maybe they'll become best of friends. Maybe we'll all realise how much we miss each other and want to merge everything back into a single forum. Maybe someone will come up with a completely different folder structure that is so beautifully simple and perfect that everyone will want to sign up to it immediately. In the meantime, this is something we can do without a three month lead time for admin approval, and this is what we're trying.

griffin100

Following some discussion among the moderators, we've decided to create a new subforum - Triathlon/Duathlon/Adventure Racing

In the meantime, this is something we can do without a three month lead time for admin approval, and this is what we're trying.

Why? I still cant see any valid reason for yet more subfora.......and then why ask for opinions when this was / is a fait accompli

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

But put what to the people?

If I remeber correctly there was a public vote among boardsies when the mods proposed to move the marathon to a sub forum.

Triathlon deserves the same respect and treatment IMO.

EDIT: There was indeed a vote: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056083256

RayCun

griffin100 wrote: »

why ask for opinions when this was / is a fait accompli

If there were a large number of people saying "no, things are perfect as they are", that would have to be taken into consideration.
But the major response so far is 'meh', with a few comments each for "leave things alone", "yeah, go ahead", "no, go further", and "while you're at it..."

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

If there were a large number of people saying "no, things are perfect as they are", that would have to be taken into consideration.
But the major response so far is 'meh', with a few comments each for "leave things alone", "yeah, go ahead", "no, go further", and "while you're at it..."

Ok then.

"no, things are perfect as they are"

But that's just me, of course.

zico10

I like the way the Soccer and Religion and Spirituality forums are organised. If you log into either you are not immediately bombarded, with a lot of infromation on tickets for Man Utd matches, or the literal truth of the Bible. If you want to ask about these things, it is obvious where you should post. The main page of each is divided into seperate forums (I wouldn't call them sub-forums, as each is given equal prominence), much the same way the Sports forum, is divided into American Football, Angling, Archery, etc.

Could A/R/T not be split along similar lines? Any number of forums/sub-forums could be created. Road Running, Cross Country, Track, Field, Triathlon, Adventure Racing, etc. These are just my not very well thought out, nor extensive suggestions. My primary interest would be triathlon, but I would still frequently check in on the road running forum. And if I ever had a notion to take up the pole vault, it'd be obvious where I should post. The forums could be listed alphabetically, so nobody's feelings are hurt.
The sticky for the A/R/T charter could be kept for each forum. Sub-sub-forums could be created for gear, events, training logs, etc, that are specific to each sport.

Under a layout like this, it wouldn't bother me if 'Egg and Spoon Racing' had its own forum. It simply wouldn't interest me and I'd never check it out. But as things stand at the moment, a lot of good posts slip off the first page, to be replaced by, what I would consider, not so good posts.

I don't know how much approval would be required, from the head honchos of Boards, for this to happen. And maybe it would require more mods, but I think it would be better than relegating triathlon alone to a subforum.

catweazle

No solutions from me, just my own experience:

I logged in here to get more information on Triathlons and have since become interested in many aspects of the running since, I ended up running a marathon last year which I had no intention of doing when I first logged in.

I am ashamed to admit even though the swimming is my most favorite aspect of triathlon I have never visited the swimming section in boards and the only time i go into the cycling is to check on a sportive coming up or if I am looking for a bit of gear

I can see the reverse happening with a few of the runners on in here, TF Bubendorfer, Ronanmac, Woddle, Macanri possibly Racoonqueen :rolleyes: originally runners all having a go at triathlons

If you could marry the swimming and cycling better into the ART as much as the running there could be a lot more crossover for all 4 sports

NB: No idea how to do that

Oryx

I like the idea of copying the spirituality forum model, but it does come with its own set of problems. You could end up with a lot of ghost forums if you subdivide too much. I assume thats why tri is being separated out along with the other multisports, so that it still has a large base of posters. That would also be a big change, this is a much smaller one.

I dont know if swimming and cycling even WANT to be married to Triathlon. Maybe they consider us jack of all trades!