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Which WW2 battle was more instrumental in defeating Germany?

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    #152
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    Russia were the main victors over Germany but saying they won the War is much too simplistic. If Midway had gone badly the Japanese would have retaken control of the Pacific. With the US pinned back they would have been unable to prevent the Japanese from squeezing the Russians from the East.
    It was a sheer slice of luck that the US Navy recon planes located the IJN carrier fleet approaching Midway when they did given they were running on fumes.


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    #153
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It was a sheer slice of luck that the US Navy recon planes located the IJN carrier fleet approaching Midway when they did given they were running on fumes.

    The intel they were working off of was excellent, the spot was to the end of the search pattern. There was more chance that the aircraft would have spotted the targets when they had full tanks than that they would RTB empty-handed.

    NTM


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    #154
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    KerranJast wrote: »
    With the US pinned back they would have been unable to prevent the Japanese from squeezing the Russians from the East
    The very existence of a Japanese thrust to the south was evidence that Tokyo had no intention of invading Russia. The Japanese learnt their lessons in the border battles of '39 (when their forces were annihilated by the Red Army) and after this decisively turned towards creating the 'Co-Prosperity Sphere' in SE Asia. Regardless of events in the Pacific, I don't see Japan turning back to Siberia for at least a decade. Particularly not when huge resources were still being tied down in China


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    #155
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,863 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    KerranJast wrote: »
    Russia were the main victors over Germany but saying they won the War is much too simplistic. If Midway had gone badly the Japanese would have retaken control of the Pacific. With the US pinned back they would have been unable to prevent the Japanese from squeezing the Russians from the East.
    It was a sheer slice of luck that the US Navy recon planes located the IJN carrier fleet approaching Midway when they did given they were running on fumes.
    "I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success".
    Isoroku Yamamoto - 6 months before Midway.

    Coral Sea had already happened so Japanese expansion had been stopped

    The US got lucky at Midway but as Pasteur said "chance favours the prepared mind" , it was going to happen sooner or later. The Japanese codes had been broken regurarly, they didn't use convoys and the US was churning out Aircraft Carriers.


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    #156
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    Japanese strategy focussed on building up a strong defensive perimeter while the US Pacific Fleet was licking its wounds after Pearl Harbour.
    The idea was that the US would agree to a negotiated peace once losses became unacceptable to the American public.

    Yamamoto famously said '' if like me , you have seen the oil fields of Texas , the steel mills of Pennsylvania and the factories of Detroit you will know that we cannot hope to secure victory '' , in my opinion Japanese defeat was more of a foregone conclusion than was German defeat.

    Midway was a turning point to be sure and it is true that minor bits of luck did play their part - the Japanese cruiser Tone was a crucial 30 minutes late launching its spotter plane , pure good fortune that saw a single Japanese destroyer ' guide ' the US dive bombers to the main carrier targets. That said , I still believe that had Midway been a defeat for the US the war would have continued with US industrial muscle winning out in the end.
    Americans were willing to endure a long pacific war , a 1943 letter written by a young John F Kennedy to his mother ends with the cheery note '' Here's to the Golden Gate in '48 '' .


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    #157
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    Reekwind wrote: »
    The very existence of a Japanese thrust to the south was evidence that Tokyo had no intention of invading Russia. The Japanese learnt their lessons in the border battles of '39 (when their forces were annihilated by the Red Army) and after this decisively turned towards creating the 'Co-Prosperity Sphere' in SE Asia. Regardless of events in the Pacific, I don't see Japan turning back to Siberia for at least a decade. Particularly not when huge resources were still being tied down in China

    Spot on - the Japanese had attempted a northwards expansion but 2 crushing defeats at the hands of the Red Army ( under the command of the then relatively unknown General Georgi Zhukov ) taught them that maybe it was better to look to the South.
    War in Europe served to encourage the expansion southwards , Tokyo was keen to exploit the difficulties of Britain , France and Holland and seize their respective colonies.
    Problem was that the US would never stand idly by and let this happen......


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