Hide your kids, hide your...

TristanPeter

Just a quick heads-up to everyone in the Renmore area. Yesterday on Ballyloughane beach my 12 year old neice and my 5 year old nephew were approached by a middle-aged man who wanted to take their photos. He asked them to strike poses of them jumping for him (my neice had her school uniform on, hence the "jumping" part). They were with their grandmother and uncle to begin with but the kids decided to play in the sand whilst the adults went for a walk with the dogs. This was in broad daylight, approximately 5pm. The gardai were informed but just be careful. My neice described him as about 5'8" - 5'10" with grey hair. He had a car but she didn't recall the colour. No harm in being vigilant. It's very very unusual for anyone to be asking children to have their photo taken let alone strike poses. What kind of sicko does that Actually, I already know the answer to that.

wet-paint

Don't bother us with this, you need to get on to this guy:

Mars Bar

Stopping by the Galway Advertiser Facebook page would probably be a good idea too OP.

http://www.facebook.com/GalwayAdvertiser

Black_Knight

Jumping to conclusions are ya? (no pun intended).

So what, a picture of kids having fun jumping in the air. Im no kid, but once or twice when we're kicking ball or whatever we've been asked could we have our picture taken. Twas some guy doing it for his photography class..... or so he said! :eek:

TristanPeter

Black_Knight wrote: »

Jumping to conclusions are ya? (no pun intended).

So what, a picture of kids having fun jumping in the air.

You've got to be kidding? So you would have no problem with a stranger taking photos of your young daughter whilst you're not about? Would you take photos of kids without their parent's permission or at least them being present? Even if it was harmless you don't do that kind of thing without the parent's/guardian's consent...well I certainly wouldn't even if I was a "photographer."

doubleglaze

TristanPeter wrote: »

What kind of sicko does that

It could be someone utterly naive and completely out-of-touch with modern day etiquette, as opposed to a paedophile.

TristanPeter

I hope that's the case DoubleGlaze. The gardai seemed to take it very seriously though based on the specifics of what happened. As I said earlier there's no harm in being vigilant.

LadyMayBelle

It could be completly innocent, and about a guy wanting to test out his new camera and some setting, but why take that risk?
Almost every social group/school now has to (or should have) have consent for their children's images to be used in advertising the said group/school... so a stranger asking for photos should be regarded with a degree fo caution

Owen

I hate this modern world where we assume everyone who likes kids, or has a camera is a Pedophile.

LadyMayBelle

Wihtout jumping to paedo conclusions, it's not right for a man to approach two young children on a beach, while they are not being supervised (I know the relatives were having a walk)

Black_Knight

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

Wihtout jumping to paedo conclusions, it's not right for a man to approach two young children on a beach, while they are not being supervised (I know the relatives were having a walk)

Perhaps he would of asked permission from parents if there were any about. Suppose it would of been better if he hid in the trees taking snaps. All im trying to say is, you could easily be jumping to conclusions, and imo it all looks fairly innocuous.

TristanPeter

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I hate this modern world where we assume everyone who likes kids, or has a camera is a Pedophile.

Having a camera does not make you a paedo.
There's nothing wrong with liking kids but approaching kids you don't know and asking them to pose for the camera is creepy, especially when the kid is approaching teenage years and is no longer a child. I wouldn't care if the guy just asked first or explained why he wanted to do it. It's called being responsible for your actions. If it's innocent the guy should know better. It's simply not right to do what he did and if he really wanted to take pics, he should have waited for the grandmother to return first.

Owen

It's only creepy because society's conditioning us to think it's creepy. I was asked to pose for a photo as a kid eating an ice cream on the beach, and it ended up in the Examiner afterwards. Parents got a huge, but nice surprise. Times were simpler then, and pedo's still existed. People are just gone mental these days.

AG2R

Lets be honest a pedo wouldn't stroll around what I'm guessing was a public enough beach and walk up to two kids with a camera. And the jumping pose is something that definitly would turn me off from the whole pedo route tbh. Could have been from a newspaper trying to get a "end of school" article photo for all we know. All well and good saying that no harm in being vigilante but now this bloke (innocent or not we don't know) is now being looked out for because you went to the police? Country is far too closed minded imo

TristanPeter

It's creepy because a middle-aged man was asking a young girl in her school uniform to jump around so he could take photos of her without any adult supervision. That's why it's creepy. It could be innocent but it's still weird. Having a camera does not give you a licence to do stuff like that regardless of who you are or what you do.

If it was for a newspaper then the "photographer" should be way more clued-in regarding etiquette.

LadyMayBelle

I still agree with Tristan Peter on this; having a camera does not instantly made you a paedo, that's nuts. I didn't suggest that and obviously Black Night, I acknowledge it is SO easy to jump to conclusions..however, if it was a newspaper reporter, that's really bad etiquette as stated already, and I do think it is not right for a stanger to approach children who are alone and ask for a photographs.

I am NOT stating that this incident involved a paedo or am I jumping to conclusions here

AG2R; I am surprised that you think paedophilies would not 'stroll around what I'm guessing was a public enough beach and walk up to two kids with a camera'... they don't necessarily all operate from bushes and secluded areas..

I can see my point make me look like I am being supersensitive, but we need to be vigilant because this stuff happens and whilst it was probably totally innocent, there's every chance it may not have been. I would not be happy if a stranger approached my children aged 12 and 5 while they were alone and asked for photos from them.

Edit: the fact the police seemed interested gives rise to the possibility this isn't an isolated incident

Wompa1

Hmmmm...wonder if it's the same guy I've noticed there twice. Usually at night, I'd pull up there with my g/f. We wouldn't be making the face of each other or anything, just sometimes go for a drive and sit there and talk. Twice a grey haired guy has pulled up beside us in a car and pretty much leered over at us until we left.

Mars Bar

It could have been completely innocent but in todays cruel world, you have to be better safe than sorry.

I think the OP is right in reporting him and if he gets called up on it then the OP will have either been proven correct or this man will be made aware that what he did is not a good idea in today's society.

softmee

TristanPeter wrote: »

Having a camera does not make you a paedo.
There's nothing wrong with liking kids but approaching kids you don't know and asking them to pose for the camera is creepy, especially when the kid is approaching teenage years and is no longer a child. I wouldn't care if the guy just asked first or explained why he wanted to do it. It's called being responsible for your actions. If it's innocent the guy should know better. It's simply not right to do what he did and if he really wanted to take pics, he should have waited for the grandmother to return first.

Did they say 'no thank you ' and left? If kids are big enough to know whats right and whats wrong I dont think there is need for grandmother or parents to speak for them. Did they talk to adults about it in a way 'there was this strange man..' or rather 'oh we've had photo taken by this nice man.. ' ?

mikom

Saw the same guy the other day pull up to the parking area by the prom.
Got a shot of the vehicle, but not of him.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27035115@N07/3070133859/

inisboffin

Of course it may have been completely innocent, I hope it was, but in this day and age and given common sense that adults supposedly have, it was pretty dumb.

Go find kids with adults nearby and ask permission.

And on the note of the responsibility being with the kids??? All kids are different, and not all are immediately in 'don't talk to strangers' mode, particularly in Galway. I'd assume that no matter what the kids said, the adults formed their own conclusions, either scenario the kids said would read the same to me tbh.

Sadly, *actual* pedophiles are often known for their ability to appear non-threatening and walk up to kids in broad daylight.

I hope this was innocent, but if the adults were spooked enough to report it, and the police were interested enough to follow up, then they were absolutely right to do so. As marsbar said, the guy, even if only taking snaps innocently, needs to be aware that this scenario may cross people's mind, and take steps to avoid unnecessary worry for all next time.

ben.schlomo

Wompa1 wrote: »

Hmmmm...wonder if it's the same guy I've noticed there twice. Usually at night, I'd pull up there with my g/f. We wouldn't be making the face of each other or anything, just sometimes go for a drive and sit there and talk. Twice a grey haired guy has pulled up beside us in a car and pretty much leered over at us until we left.

An adultophile aswell i see

Head The Wall

Thread title reminds me of Antoine Dodson, I hope its an intentional reference OP as it cracks me up. For those not in the know here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXvZeJSUDPM

JJayoo

Best song ever :pac:

Wompa1

ben.schlomo wrote: »

An adultophile aswell i see

He molested me with his eyes....

he likes his bread buttered on both sides. PERVERT!!

Also I do have child like qualities, my baby face, short stature and inability to grow proper facial hair atest to that

Xiney

Photography has a tendency of attracting certain people. I'm not saying perverts, I'm saying people who are not comfortable in social situations and so have started to use a camera as a kind of sheild.

Some of these people are not comfortable in social situations because they are not aware of ettiquette, social rules, body language, nuances in speech, etc.


What I'm trying to say is, it's quite possible the guy was just a harmless amateur photographer... because there are a lot of people into photography that just don't "fit in". I mean, even the photography board here can't get along with one another.



(This is all based on my own observations in camera clubs and the like)



That said, good to inform the gardai and to get the word out... harmless or not, beyond creepy!

WesternNight

I pity anyone who goes near a child these days, lest they get accused of all sorts of things.

I'm not a middle-aged man, but even I have been in situations where I see a child looking like they're lost or something and I actually think twice before approaching them to see if they're ok in case someone assumes something monstrous.

Be vigilant but be reasonable.

Miss Informed

I don't understand why some of you are actually giving the OP hassle here. Is it solely because you enjoy belittling other peoples opinions and concerns? Or are you actually offended by the fact that this guy has decided to err on the side of caution with regard to his children's safety, and has gone out of his way to bring our attention (thank you OP) to a potential threat within our community?

If say, seven or eight people had replied reporting similar stories, and a darker picture were painted through collective experience, would you all still be whinging here? Do you think that these types of posts should be disallowed or discouraged?

Is this what you would have done?:

'I saw a man speaking with my children at the beach the other day.. I think that his behavior was inappropriate, but maybe he didn't mean any harm. Maybe he's just 'out of touch' with modern etiquette. I might be overreacting. Perhaps he's just artistic and wanted to take a photograph. Those artsy types can be a bit odd, as we all rightly know. Har har har.

Or maybe he's not so innocent. Maybe he could have caused serious harm to my children. Maybe he will cause serious harm to somebody else's children. The guards seem to be taking this very seriously. The guards are people who actually have to deal with deviants, and are more qualified to recognise threatening behavior than I am. Hmmmm. Perhaps I should respect their opinion. Maybe I should raise the alert to others, even if the probability of harm is slim, I think that it would be better to be safe than sorry.........

Hang on second! What was I thinking? If I warned others I might offend the unidentified man. Good lord, I must never cause offense to anybody ever no matter what. People might call me stupid and bureaucratic. Nah, I'll just leave it. I am sure that everything will be just fine.' (fingers in ears, la-la-la-la-la)

gbee

TristanPeter wrote: »

Actually, I already know the answer to that.

Funny thing is this could describe me. As part of my work I am asked to go to beaches and get happy snaps for local papers.

The jumping for joy shot is the most requested shot by everyone ~ it's lame in my book but if it puts a tenner in the kitty I'll get it.

We {I'm usually accompanied by my wife} will always look for parents either before or after taking the photo, show them the images and get the usual clearance.

katiebelle

Are some of you people for real ?? No one but no one takes pictures of my children without my permission. Its part of the whole parenting deal of protecting my children. I don't care how "innocent" or "out of touch" this guy is you dont photograph random kids on a beach without their parents permission. Photographs can be manipulated and shared on the internet. I dont want to see my kids faces being used for any untoward purpose. When you are talking about kids you HAVE to err on the side of caution. Any genuine photographer would have gone through an adult for permission to photograph these kids. Years ago my daughter was approached by a man in a car and she knew enough to get away from him fast. It was in a tiny village in county Clare , the kind of place you would think would be safe. The gardai took it very seriously and told me they interviewed the THREE residents of this village who were on the sex offenders register. Three in one tiny village. You never know where there are weirdos like this lurking, they dont wear signs. You just cant be too careful

milehip1

as i was told once (rather snottlingy) by a photographer you don't need permission to take someones photo in a public place,
wonder if there is a loophole in that "rule" for kids?

Discodog

I know someone who was leap on by the Guards for birdwatching near a beach. He was hiding in some reads filming a nesting bird & someone reported him.

ger vallely

No-one seems to have mentioned that a 12 year old should not be left in charge of a 5 year old.It may have been innocent enough but it is not reasonable to expect a 12 year old to assume responsibility of a young child. Whatever about in the familiar safety of their own home but definitely not on a beach. also any intelligent adult should know not to approach unattended children to ask to take thier photo. Times change, sometiomes for the better sometimes not. These days you cannot go asking unattended children to pose for photos..

mikom

ger vallely wrote: »

No-one seems to have mentioned that a 12 year old should not be left in charge of a 5 year old.It may have been innocent enough but it is not reasonable to expect a 12 year old to assume responsibility of a young child.

Surely you are not saying that many children are more at risk from lax parenting than those so called sexual predators...............

Mrs OBumble

ger vallely wrote: »

No-one seems to have mentioned that a 12 year old should not be left in charge of a 5 year old.

Well I was just about to.

Among other things, a child of five should not be anywhere near the water without an adult within-sight-within-reach.

Agree that gardai being interested does make it sound as thought it could be more sinister. And agree that the man asking the kids to pose is odd.

But to believe that no one takes photos of kids in public places without the parents explicit permission is just nuts. Every CCTV camera in the country does it. Lots of happy-snappers do it too. Hell, even I do it every St Patricks day parade etc.

katiebelle

JustMary wrote: »

Well I was just about to.

Among other things, a child of five should not be anywhere near the water without an adult within-sight-within-reach.

Agree that gardai being interested does make it sound as thought it could be more sinister. And agree that the man asking the kids to pose is odd.

But to believe that no one takes photos of kids in public places without the parents explicit permission is just nuts. Every CCTV camera in the country does it. Lots of happy-snappers do it too. Hell, even I do it every St Patricks day parade etc.

Perhaps Justmary but its a bit odd when you think you have to get written permission from the parents to photograph a child in a school or creche and in schools kids are not allowed camera phones in school for the same reason.

xo.mary

It may or may not have been innocent, but no one knows atm.


I've worked in the gaeltacht for the last few years and one time, a middle aged man approached one of the students while on the beach (there were 300+ students and 20+ supervisors/teachers/management present) asking to take her photo. Before he approached her he'd sit up on the rocks and watch down on us all the time. It was quite weird and unnerving, but the guards were called (after the student told her parents, we didn't know until then) and they took it pretty seriously.

Xiney

ger vallely wrote: »

No-one seems to have mentioned that a 12 year old should not be left in charge of a 5 year old.

Wow, things sure have changed since I was a (paid!) 12 year old babysitter...

mikemac

OP, did he have a white van?
Every hysterical adult know that the dodgy people have white vans.

katiebelle wrote: »

Are some of you people for real ?? No one but no one takes pictures of my children without my permission.

What if your children are playing a camogie or football match. If you see an amateur photographer or even the man from the local paper are you going to storm over and confront them?

As there have been threads over in photography forum about this

Pity the man who does anything with kids these days.
When I was a GAA coach I was warned never ever to be in the changing rooms without another adult. Mud sticks and if I grab a child to break up messing or someone passes a comment on a look or touch my name could be ruined.

Any wonder hardly any men go into primary school teaching with hysteria everywhere

The Scientician

PaintDoctor wrote: »

It's only creepy because society's conditioning us to think it's creepy. I was asked to pose for a photo as a kid eating an ice cream on the beach, and it ended up in the Examiner afterwards.

Ban this filth!

mikemac

Cork Examiner, all kinds of filth in Cork

Would never happen in Galway

connemara man

milehip1 wrote: »

as i was told once (rather snottlingy) by a photographer you don't need permission to take someones photo in a public place,
wonder if there is a loophole in that "rule" for kids?

In Ireland we don't own our own copyright so your picture can be taken.

I think erring the side of caution is a good thing, I know i wouldn't want anyone taking pictures of my youonger cousins without my consent. It is better to be safe then sorry

Fuinseog

mars bar wrote: »

Stopping by the Galway Advertiser Facebook page would probably be a good idea too OP.

http://www.facebook.com/GalwayAdvertiser

he could have been a photographer for one of the papers looking for a good summer photo.
every guy is a suspect paedo and we have become very sick.

Fuinseog

milehip1 wrote: »

as i was told once (rather snottlingy) by a photographer you don't need permission to take someones photo in a public place,
wonder if there is a loophole in that "rule" for kids?

in the north they signs up saying not to take pictures of kids.

Fuinseog

ger vallely wrote: »

No-one seems to have mentioned that a 12 year old should not be left in charge of a 5 year old.It may have been innocent enough but it is not reasonable to expect a 12 year old to assume responsibility of a young child. Whatever about in the familiar safety of their own home but definitely not on a beach. also any intelligent adult should know not to approach unattended children to ask to take thier photo. Times change, sometiomes for the better sometimes not. These days you cannot go asking unattended children to pose for photos..

especially if the twelve year old has not been Garda vetted. its not just creepy old men that are child abusers. look at the Jamie Bulger case.

syklops

TristanPeter wrote: »

It's creepy because a middle-aged man was asking a young girl in her school uniform to jump around so he could take photos of her without any adult supervision.

I have to chuckle at this a bit. You would swear it was his responsibility that the kids were unsupervised. If it was my kids, I would be going mental at whoever was minding the kids, and why they left to take the dogs for a walk. Can kids and dogs not mix?

schools kids are not allowed camera phones in school for the same reason.

School kids are not allowed them, because a picture of the innocent "Ill show you mine if you show me yours" which we all did at some point in our youth, can be spread around the whole class and maybe even the whole county in a matter of hours. Its nothing to do with getting permission to record children.

Robbo

I've come late to this thread, but I heard there's an entire paediatrics building somewhere in Newcastle that we can torch the perverts out of.

TristanPeter

syklops wrote: »

I have to chuckle at this a bit. You would swear it was his responsibility that the kids were unsupervised. If it was my kids, I would be going mental at whoever was minding the kids, and why they left to take the dogs for a walk. Can kids and dogs not mix?

When I was 12 I was walking my younger brothers and sister to and from school in Mervue via Castlepark. The kid's grandmother was never out of sight when she went walking but this is besides the point. The point of my original post was just to warn people to be careful. Two of my neighbours were convicted of pedophilia some years back. One of them was connected to a certain Eyre Square public toilet paedophile ring. So if I'm being overly-cautious I have good reason to be. I had a VERY lucky escape once myself when I was about 13 when a well-known wino came at me lad in hand as I was locking up a boat shed in Woodquay on my own. Thank God for good timing because my two older brothers just showed up in the car to collect me and scared the guy off. That might sound a bit crazy but these wierdos are out there. Maybe the guy on the beach was completely innocent, and hopefully he was, but he should know better. There wouldn't be much point in posting, God forbid, after something happened to a kid.

AngeGal

Fuinseog wrote: »

he could have been a photographer for one of the papers looking for a good summer photo.
every guy is a suspect paedo and we have become very sick.

We have become more aware of possible dangers. Being alert to risks is not very sick. Perhaps he was a photographer, perhaps not. The OP was simply suggesting being vigilant, which is never any harm. The OP was seeking to ensure his community was on guard, yet now users have begun to almost make fun of him for it. It's crazy.

syklops

TristanPeter wrote: »

When I was 12 I was walking my younger brothers and sister to and from school in Mervue via Castlepark. The kid's grandmother was never out of sight when she went walking but this is besides the point. The point of my original post was just to warn people to be careful. Two of my neighbours were convicted of pedophilia some years back. One of them was connected to a certain Eyre Square public toilet paedophile ring. So if I'm being overly-cautious I have good reason to be. I had a VERY lucky escape once myself when I was about 13 when a well-known wino came at me lad in hand as I was locking up a boat shed in Woodquay on my own. Thank God for good timing because my two older brothers just showed up in the car to collect me and scared the guy off. That might sound a bit crazy but these wierdos are out there. Maybe the guy on the beach was completely innocent, and hopefully he was, but he should know better. There wouldn't be much point in posting, God forbid, after something happened to a kid.

You rang the police, they are aware, well done. Telling people to be extra vigilant, rarely actually works. In fact in this case, had the childrens Grandmother and uncle been a little bit vigilant, it probably would not have happened as it did. Or the individual might have introduced himself as a photographer or whatever to the adult nearby and the mystery would have been at an end.

All you manage in doing by posting here is put the people of Renmore, and Galway, in general, on the look out for an average height man with grey hair and a camera. The positive gains from a community being extra vigilant are hard to quantify, but the negative ones can have very serious repercussions.

Yes some people are making jokes, but thats because if you took every single threat to your life and to that of your kids, we would all be living in underground shelters watching Fox News.

Tonight on Prime Time Investigates: "Granddad: Friend? Or Foe?......

Fuinseog

AngeGal wrote: »

We have become more aware of possible dangers. Being alert to risks is not very sick. Perhaps he was a photographer, perhaps not. The OP was simply suggesting being vigilant, which is never any harm. The OP was seeking to ensure his community was on guard, yet now users have begun to almost make fun of him for it. It's crazy.

there is a certain a paranoia about the whole thing, sometimes unjustified. Every male is a suspect paedophile and that is a most unsettling feeling. Its maybe a backlash from when "unusual" behaviour was tolerated. There was a school in Galway, which will go unnamed, and a teacher used to go into the showers to have a look. he has since been sentenced for child abuse.

I work in a school (not in Galway) myself and every now and then this ould lad of about 80 is outside the gates talking to and laughing with the young boys, just the boys. when he saw me he cleared off and I was told later who he was. people have complained yet he is not barred from the property. his behaviour is regarded as unusual but a s such he has committed no crime.