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Grace O' Malley
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23-06-2011 4:04pm#1
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Of course interesting thing about the ruling families of the Umhail is that they claimed to be part of wider Uí Briúin eg. that they make up the "Uí Briúin Umhail", however there is folklore that puts them as descended form "Orbsen". This been "Orbsiu Mac Alloid" another name/aspect for the god Manannán mac Lir.
Given there connections to sea-faring this would be a fitting ancestry myth.
Loch Corrib in Galway is actually a corruption of Loch nOrbsen.0 -
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pedroeibar1 wrote: »I agree that her boats would have been galleys; sleek, manoeuvrable & fast, and manned by a large number of rowers; ideally used for ‘hit & run’ tactics. Similar boats were used by the Barbary States, Algerines and Sundra Straits pirates for hundreds of years. Galleys are nothing like Galway Bay hookers (per post by somebody above.) But it makes me wonder about claims/lore that she raided as far south as West Cork; a galley is not suitable for that distance, particularly in Irish weather conditions.
In early 1577 she was captured raiding the Earl of Desmond's lands- the records don't say exactly where, but it does put her on the South-West coast. Desmond handed her over to Lord Justice Drury as a demonstration of his loyalty.
In 1578, a Captain Martin was dispatched from Galway to arrest her for attacks on Galway ships - but this could have referred her extracting tolls with menaces. Captain Martin attacked Carrigahowley and had his ass handed to him. He declared he was lucky to escape with his life. Mind, she had just been released having spent over a year in Dublin Castle so I'd say she wasn't in the best of moods at the time.
In the 1590s, she herself admitted she was forced to spend 3 months re-fitting her fleet in Tyrconnell after a severe storm - so that puts her as far north as Donegal.
She also sailed to London in 1593 and 1595.Grainne’s piracy is not as subtle as that. Drake and Raleigh were not pirates, they were ‘privateers’– they commanded private vessels operating under a ‘letter of marquee & reprisal’* i.e. a licence from the monarch to wage a private war against specific targets only. That licence (internationally recognized & legal) stipulated the nationalities of the vessels that could be attacked and often the area of operation. What they could do was clearly defined. Letters of Marque were commonly used by French, British and American governments during the Napoleonic Wars. What Grainne did was plain ‘opportunistic’ piracy and against the law. I agree in that era there was nothing particularly unusual or uncommon about that, apart from her sex.
There is only one recorded instance of attempted 'piracy' by a vessel belonging to her. In 1601, a galley identified as hers but captained by her son halted an English galleon in Clew Bay and demanded a toll be paid or they would seize the ship.
Given that Gaelic Ireland had no central authority there was no mechanism for her to be issued with letters of marque by an Irish authority. There is evidence (ye'll have to wait for the book) to suggest that she was issued some by Elizabeth in 1593 - having pledged to use her forces against her majesties enemies on land and sea and to place her fleet at the service of the Queen. Her ships were used to supply Conyers Clifford at Sligo during the Nine Years War.
As for Drake etc - to the Spanish, whose ships they were seizing, they were pirates. Hawkins was attacking Spanish ships as far back as the 1560s - when there was no official declaration of war between England and Spain.I know wiki is disliked as a source but their piece on letters of marque is quite good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque
A letter of Marque was nothing but legalised piracy where the State took a cut of the profits.Looking forward to the book, but you need a more international title;)
Titlewise - more concerned with historical accuracy then international sales figures. I am writing about people who fought and died to remain culturally Gaelic - so the least I can do is respect that and use their battle cry as they did. I refuse to Anglicise it. For the same reasons I use the Irish versions of their names unless they have Anglicised (i.e Hugh O Neill is referred to as Hugh O Neill but I use Áodh Ruadh Ua Domhnaill instead of Red Hugh O Donnell). Won't be changing that to suit an international audience either
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Bannasidhe wrote: »
As for Drake etc - to the Spanish, whose ships they were seizing, they were pirates. Hawkins was attacking Spanish ships as far back as the 1560s - when there was no official declaration of war between England and Spain.
A letter of Marque was nothing but legalised piracy where the State took a cut of the profits.
Thanks Bannasidhe,
I don't want to get bogged down in a debate on LoM/piracy - anyone (Revenue, download sites, etc.) who grabs anything is regarded as a pirate by the victim. However, one of the specific purposes of a LoM is that war does not have to be declared. As recently as 2001 the US congress looked at a bill, (H.R.3076) -- September 11 Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001 specifically targeting al Queda (see http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.+3076:_blank)
The history article to which you linked says that her fleet estimates vary from five to twenty vessels at any one time. It also states that Dubhdara ferried Scottish mercenaries and traded raw materials.
I don’t go with the idea that Grainne had ships based on the Viking longship (knarr or drakkar) – I would be more inclined to the idea of galleys and a smallish sized sailing vessel known as a cog. My guess is based on the carvel type of construction used in the West – Galway Bay hookers ( a much later design) are carvel built – i.e. the planks are butted together, rather than clinker built (overlapped). Cogs are of a much more sturdy construction, better for Atlantic seas and cargo-carrying, which is why they replaced the lnongship type vessels. The carvel construction is said to have been developed in Spain/Portugal, so it would have been quite familiar on the Western seaboard in the 16th century. There is a nice image of a cog here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bremen_Hansekogge_RolandvonBremen.JPGBannasidhe wrote: »Titlewise - more concerned with historical accuracy then international sales figures. I am writing about people who fought and died to remain culturally Gaelic - so the least I can do is respect that and use their battle cry as they did. I refuse to Anglicise it. For the same reasons I use the Irish versions of their names unless they have Anglicised (i.e Hugh O Neill is referred to as Hugh O Neill but I use Áodh Ruadh Ua Domhnaill instead of Red Hugh O Donnell). Won't be changing that to suit an international audience either.
Ah, the true academic, no interest in filthy lucre! My sister, Grainne (complete with fada) works internationally and is known as Grace outside of Ireland, even has separate business cards, as her name was a barrier. I'm not going to stand between you and your publisher.;)0 -
Will there be a Boards discount?Bannasidhe wrote: »Working on a publishable version, working title MacUilliam Abú. 0 -
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