Dublin Bus driver smoking ban exemption?

Atlantic Dawn

For the 2nd time this week this morning I noticed a Dublin Bus driver smoking inside his Out Of Service bus in the set down area outside Leinster House, do they have an exemption because they are the only employees on the bus and it is not carrying passengers at the time? Reg of todays bus was noted, will see if its the same tomorrow.

Cookie_Monster

No, there is just zero enforcement of the ban.

Have a look around and you'll notice truckers, taxi drivers and bus drivers doing it.

Taxi drivers I can kind of understand to a point, they'll most likely own their own vehicle but bus drivers and truckers, who generally are driving a company vehicle, I have no sympathy for at all, they're showing disrespect the their employers property as well as flouting the law

schemingbohemia

I don't really have a problem with this, if the bus is out of service and parked with the window open it's not really going to leave a lingering smell (in my experience).

Run_to_da_hills

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with this, if the bus is out of service and parked with the window open it's not really going to leave a lingering smell (in my experience).

The driver would want to have his head out the window not to have any smell, It may have been OK in the days of the separated cabs of the Leyland Titans but not in today's buses.

schemingbohemia

well, have you experience of that? my experience with the driver of the 7d who arrives early for the 735 bus from Dalkey is that he might have a smoke with the doors and window open and that there is no smell of smoke in the bus.

Cookie_Monster

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with this, if the bus is out of service and parked with the window open it's not really going to leave a lingering smell (in my experience).

would you walk into someone's home or car and start smoking in it without asking permission?

oisindoyle

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

For the 2nd time this week this morning I noticed a Dublin Bus driver smoking inside his Out Of Service bus in the set down area outside Leinster House, do they have an exemption because they are the only employees on the bus and it is not carrying passengers at the time? Reg of todays bus was noted, will see if its the same tomorrow.

I fail to see how this has impacted on your life?..the phrase "get a life", springs to mind

Atlantic Dawn

oisindoyle wrote: »

I fail to see how this has impacted on your life?..the phrase "get a life", springs to mind

As a taxpayer and citizen of this country it would be my reasonable expectation that I would be able to make the decision to use state owned public transport without having to worry about my clothing and lungs being contaminated by the the drivers smoke.

mgmt

Put a smoke alarm in the drivers cabin. Health and Safety and all :P

mikemac

Happens all the time on Aston Quay

Two or three drivers sit in an empty bus smoking away.

They prefer their dry bus to standing outside in the rain with the rest of us.
It's their own little smoking hut

dazed+confused

oisindoyle wrote: »

I fail to see how this has impacted on your life?..the phrase "get a life", springs to mind

That's a bit harsh, its either a law or its not, I would be dismissed on the spot for smoking outside a designated area.

Fattes

Aston Quay is rife with it and then to add insult to injury the cigarette ends are tossed on the side of the road or out the window.

Try complaining to Dublin Bus! :D:D They will note your complain and file it in the sphreyical filing cabinet under their desk!

A fine example of the waste of taxpayers money that is Dublin Bus.

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with this, if the bus is out of service and parked with the window open it's not really going to leave a lingering smell (in my experience).

Regardless of other busses and trucks and taxis my big problem with these state employees is that they are making a concious descision to break the rules and should be severely disciplined for this! They are saying to us the paople who pay their salaries and possibly their mortgages that they will smoke if they want to and F@£k us and F@£k their employer and F@£k the government and laws and constitution.

oisindoyle wrote: »

I fail to see how this has impacted on your life?..the phrase "get a life", springs to mind

As a former smoker i know now how bad the smell of smoke can be especially for anyone with breathing difficulties, when you smoke the fumes stick to you as the nearest thing to the cigarette and having windows and doors open helps but not much. I would get over this by reporting the individuals concerned and let the public travel in some kind of comfort without the stink of the drivers smoke riddled clothes and skin wafting through the bus!

Peanut2011

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

As a taxpayer and citizen of this country it would be my reasonable expectation that I would be able to make the decision to use state owned public transport without having to worry about my clothing and lungs being contaminated by the the drivers smoke.

Ah c'mon!!! I would love to see you do something on the bus when you have few members of our "deprived areas" up at the back smoking while the bus is full.

At the same time do you ever complain to the pubs or other places when they have the people smoking right outside the door and you have to walk trough the wall of smoke to bet in or out??

As someone said "get a life"!

foggy_lad

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Ah c'mon!!! I would love to see you do something on the bus when you have few members of our "deprived areas" up at the back smoking while the bus is full.

At the same time do you ever complain to the pubs or other places when they have the people smoking right outside the door and you have to walk trough the wall of smoke to bet in or out??

As someone said "get a life"!

I would complain about the smokers outside the pub if i intended sitting outside at the door but with the pints and comfort being inside that is unlikely. and if smokers are found on the bus the driver usually stops until they get off or put the cigarettes out. we are far from the days of the Bombardiers when drivers didnt bother due to their own safety but they are practically bulletproof now in the cab of a bus.

Losty Dublin

I must say, some of the proposed bravery of the posters here standing up to people smoking on buses would shed a tear from a glass eye. Civil Ireland is safe in their hands once they follow up on their words :rolleyes:

Seriously guys, get a grip. A few people smoke where and when they ought not to and while it is illegal, it's not the onset of decay of moral society. Report them by all means but it won't make fares any cheaper, it won't get a driver sacked nor will the bus get there quicker, smoother or in a safer manner. If anything, it may even put him in a better mood for 5 minutes

And lest you begin to think otherwise, I am a non smoker who hates the smell of the stuff; I just have a better sense of perspective than others on minor things like this.

IrishWhite

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

No, there is just zero enforcement of the ban.

Have a look around and you'll notice truckers, taxi drivers and bus drivers doing it.

Taxi drivers I can kind of understand to a point, they'll most likely own their own vehicle but bus drivers and truckers, who generally are driving a company vehicle, I have no sympathy for at all, they're showing disrespect the their employers property as well as flouting the law

Hi Atlantic

Whats the deal on trawlers with no one to enforce the law apart from the skipper. I was at sea for 10 years and never met a skipper that didnt smoke. So if you take watch after the captain and you walk into a cloudy wheelhouse do you complain.

Just curious

Atlantic Dawn

IrishWhite wrote: »

Hi Atlantic

Whats the deal on trawlers with no one to enforce the law apart from the skipper. I was at sea for 10 years and never met a skipper that didnt smoke. So if you take watch after the captain and you walk into a cloudy wheelhouse do you complain.

Just curious

Trawlers where the crew live aboard are exempt as it's classed as a home and workplace in one.

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I must say, some of the proposed bravery of the posters here standing up to people smoking on buses would shed a tear from a glass eye. Civil Ireland is safe in their hands once they follow up on their words :rolleyes:

Seriously guys, get a grip. A few people smoke where and when they ought not to and while it is illegal, it's not the onset of decay of moral society. Report them by all means but it won't make fares any cheaper, it won't get a driver sacked nor will the bus get there quicker, smoother or in a safer manner. If anything, it may even put him in a better mood for 5 minutes

And lest you begin to think otherwise, I am a non smoker who hates the smell of the stuff; I just have a better sense of perspective than others on minor things like this.

Lets all just ignore all the little laws we dont like!

BenShermin

foggy_lad wrote: »

and if smokers are found on the bus the driver usually stops until they get off or put the cigarettes out. we are far from the days of the Bombardiers when drivers didnt bother due to their own safety but they are practically bulletproof now in the cab of a bus.

Have you ever actually been on a Dublin Bus in a working class area:rolleyes:?

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Regardless of other busses and trucks and taxis my big problem with these state employees is that they are making a concious descision to break the rules and should be severely disciplined for this! They are saying to us the paople who pay their salaries and possibly their mortgages that they will smoke if they want to and F@£k us and F@£k their employer and F@£k the government and laws and constitution.

Instead of ranting and raving on a public forum why not report these people to the Health Protection Unit and have the full force of law come down on them ?

However from anecdotal evidence on these boards a lot of skangers tend to smoke on certain bus routes and woe-betide anyone of us (who pay their dole and their travel and their medical fees ) who tries to stop them.

foggy_lad

BenShermin wrote: »

Have you ever actually been on a Dublin Bus in a working class area:rolleyes:?

By working class do you mean areas where people live who are mostly gainfully employed? Maynooth, Celbridge, Palmerstown, Rialto, Inchicore and Crumlin are all "working class" areas in which I have lived and rarely saw people smoking or drinking on several busses which I used to get daily.

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

By working class do you mean areas where people live who are mostly gainfully employed? Maynooth, Celbridge, Palmerstown, Rialto, Inchicore and Crumlin are all "working class" areas in which I have lived and rarely saw people smoking or drinking on several busses which I used to get daily.

If you lived in these areas you'd have traveled on the 19, 50, 51's, 56A, 77, 77A, 78A and 79. There is absolutely no way you can have traveled on any of these routes and not seen people smoke or drink on a regular basis and this comes from somebody who has used then all over the years.

foggy_lad

There were smokers and drinkers bit not on a regular basis and most of the smokers were on the bus heading out for the night in town with mates or girlfriend and appeared to be pretty normal except for a complete disregard for any authority Much like those with illegal number plates or illegally tinted windscreens.

parsi

Ya know Foggy many moons ago as a lad (getting the bus to/from college on a student ticket) I used be driven demented by the drivers on my local route smoking. It got on my wick and I used regularly write to HQ giving out. This was in the days before the ability for folk to just moan on an internet forum.

Anyways one evening I was got on the bus and the driver asked " are you that f****er who's always writing in about me". I said yeah and he told me that he had got reprimanded as a result.

We got on fine after that and regularly exchanged smalltalk.

AlekSmart

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

For the 2nd time this week this morning I noticed a Dublin Bus driver smoking inside his Out Of Service bus in the set down area outside Leinster House, do they have an exemption because they are the only employees on the bus and it is not carrying passengers at the time? Reg of todays bus was noted, will see if its the same tomorrow.

As a Busdriver,who does not smoke himself and who has absolutely no time whatever for smoking,I can only advise Atlantic Dawn to appraise him/herself of the law and see about getting it enforced.

I would imagine that Leinster House would have at least one member of an Garda Siochana nearby who could assist in this ?

If the action of the smoker is causing you this level of angst then take direct action and report it,in fact why not advise the driver of this course of action and perhaps you might be surprised at the response.

On the broader topic,I'm driven demented by having to listen to that woman warning customers of the risk of a €3,000 fine for smoking on Dublin Bus,despite the remarkable scarcity of such punishment thus far in proceedings.

Like much of Irelands bulging statute book,the Smoking laws are in fact less than wieldy in their implementation.

In the case of Dublin Bus,and in fact most similar operators,the business of takling serial smokers to task is full of codology.

It has to involve both plain-clothes and uniformed Inspectors to detect,witness and confront the miscreant.
It must also then involve an environmental health Inspector to instigate proceedings as well as,of course,the trusty Gardai.....all this to bring one transgressor to court with absolutely no guarantee of a guilty verdict,never mind any €3,000 fines ....:rolleyes:

By far and away the biggest problem on Dublin's Buses these days is drinking.
This is now a day long affair and on a wide variety of routes,but yet again is almost impossible for a Driver to detect until the empty cans start rolling around the upper saloon floor or the stink of spilled gargle wafts downstairs.

parsi

I think Mr Smart has identified a significant issue The gut reaction to problems is to enact laws banning or restricting them It is a case of "someone please think of the children".

This however doesn't work in the absence of enforcement

The_Wrecker

From another drivers point.
I hate the cab area and controls either smelling of smoke or filled with fag ash. Once you turn on the demisters it all lifts and flies everywhere. Report the loon on his CCTV'ed bus.

droidus

In my experience, if your stop is near the terminus, you can always tell if a driver has been smoking as the bus stinks when he pulls up at the first stop.

Bandana boy

Are we really concerned about an off duty Bus ,Taxi or truck driver having a sneaky fag out the window ?

Surely on any list of behaviors that we would like these professions to change ,the sneaky fag does not rate in the top 100 issues ?

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

There were smokers and drinkers bit not on a regular basis and most of the smokers were on the bus heading out for the night in town with mates or girlfriend and appeared to be pretty normal except for a complete disregard for any authority Much like those with illegal number plates or illegally tinted windscreens.

Exactly what have tinted windows and number plates got to do with smoking on buses? I think it's you who has been smoking too much...

The_Wrecker

Bandana boy wrote: »

Are we really concerned about an off duty Bus ,Taxi or truck driver having a sneaky fag out the window ?

Surely on any list of behaviors that we would like these professions to change ,the sneaky fag does not rate in the top 100 issues ?

True it would be in the top 20 in Dublin Bus. Most of this has been stamped out, but there are a few that smoke in service and while sat at the terminus. Which is pushing your luck if a handful of passengers are waiting to board. Load the bus and get off and have your smoke.
Mechanics also smoke while carrying out repairs, the stale smell is gone but the ash remains everywhere.
.

bmaxi

Bandana boy wrote: »

Are we really concerned about an off duty Bus ,Taxi or truck driver having a sneaky fag out the window ?

Surely on any list of behaviors that we would like these professions to change ,the sneaky fag does not rate in the top 100 issues ?

The problem is, it starts small and then as the lack of enforcement becomes apparent, it mushrooms. Pretty soon we'll be back where we were 20 years ago.

-Chris-

Questions:

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Taxi drivers I can kind of understand to a point, they'll most likely own their own vehicle but bus drivers and truckers, who generally are driving a company vehicle, I have no sympathy for at all, they're showing disrespect the their employers property as well as flouting the law

Why is there a difference between taxi drivers and Bus drivers? This logic doesn't hold up.
The smoking ban was brought in to protect employees and customers from second hand smoke. That's why it was banned from workplaces, and why places like buses and taxis are both included - both carry passengers/customers.
Why have you made a distinction?

foggy_lad wrote: »

Regardless of other busses and trucks and taxis my big problem with these state employees is that they are making a concious descision to break the rules and should be severely disciplined for this! They are saying to us the paople who pay their salaries and possibly their mortgages that they will smoke if they want to and F@£k us and F@£k their employer and F@£k the government and laws and constitution.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Are you suggesting that they should be punished more severely because they're employees of the state?

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Seriously guys, get a grip. A few people smoke where and when they ought not to and while it is illegal, it's not the onset of decay of moral society. Report them by all means but it won't make fares any cheaper, it won't get a driver sacked nor will the bus get there quicker, smoother or in a safer manner. If anything, it may even put him in a better mood for 5 minutes

Would you be as lenient if an employee was smoking in a hospital or school? Are Microsoft employees allowed to smoke in their offices because they're not customer facing? Are they allowed to smoke if they feel it'll make them do their job better?



It seems from this thread that only the people we "dislike" are to be punished for smoking in the workplace, whereas the people we identify with are "just letting off some steam" and a blind eye should be turned.

Or maybe I'm reading WAY too much into this... :cool::D

Losty Dublin

-Chris- wrote: »

Would you be as lenient if an employee was smoking in a hospital or school? Are Microsoft employees allowed to smoke in their offices because they're not customer facing? Are they allowed to smoke if they feel it'll make them do their job better?

With respect, you are taking my point just a little bit too literally here

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Exactly what have tinted windows and number plates got to do with smoking on buses? I think it's you who has been smoking too much...

As with having a sly smoke while pulled in waiting to board passengers this type of illegal activity starts small but can very easily spiral out of control. As for me, I haven't smoked in over 5years and feel so much better for it but will happily sit in a car or room with any number of smokers as long as they are not breaking any laws.

Originally Posted by -Chris-

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Are you suggesting that they should be punished more severely because they're employees of the state?

No they should have the same punishment but should also have a bit more pride in their positions as state employees imho and be less inclined to break the law by smoking or reading the paper or using their mobiles while driving etc. They should become the best in their field by having the best driving records and reputations and lead by example.

Cookie_Monster

-Chris- wrote: »

Why is there a difference between taxi drivers and Bus drivers? This logic doesn't hold up.
The smoking ban was brought in to protect employees and customers from second hand smoke. That's why it was banned from workplaces, and why places like buses and taxis are both included - both carry passengers/customers.
Why have you made a distinction?

my point was only that taxi drivers generally own their own equipment, whereas bus drivers do not, making it more disrespectful to their employers as well as their customers is all. I don't condone taxi drivers doing it any more than any others

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

As with having a sly smoke while pulled in waiting to board passengers this type of illegal activity starts small but can very easily spiral out of control.

In another thread you have said that bus drivers should carry a person who doesn't have a valid free travel pass for free because he hasn't bothered to get it replaced.

So on the one hand you want bus drivers to show discretion but on the other hand you want them to be hung, drawn and quartered for not adhering to the rules that _you_ deem important.

Wow, a sneaky fag will lead to selling the passengers to white slavers ? I can see the headline in the Indo now:

" Dublin Bus drivers puffs on his Rothmans whilst the passengers supposedly in his care were herded like cattle onto a white slaver ship destined for a foreign country."

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

No they should have the same punishment but should also have a bit more pride in their positions as state employees imho and be less inclined to break the law by smoking or reading the paper or using their mobiles while driving etc. They should become the best in their field by having the best driving records and reputations and lead by example.

Maybe their customers could behave. Especially the skangers who are getting to travel for nothing but have no problem with smoking, drinking and generally abusing their fellow customers and Bus staff.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

Maybe their customers could behave. Especially the skangers who are getting to travel for nothing but have no problem with smoking, drinking and generally abusing their fellow customers and Bus staff.

Maybe if all their staff behaved it would set a good enough example for the next generation of hash smoking idiots who like to smoke and drink on the bus that they stop misbehaving.

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe if all their staff behaved it would set a good enough example for the next generation of hash smoking idiots who like to smoke and drink on the bus that they stop misbehaving.

I somehow doubt that, but maybe if AGS did their job and dealt with this kind of scum then it wouldn't be a problem that bus drivers would have to face in the first place.

-Chris-

foggy_lad wrote: »

No they should have the same punishment but should also have a bit more pride in their positions as state employees imho and be less inclined to break the law by smoking or reading the paper or using their mobiles while driving etc. They should become the best in their field by having the best driving records and reputations and lead by example.

They should have more pride in their positions, and less inclined to break the law, than the equivalent private sector worker?

Why?

foggy_lad

-Chris- wrote: »

They should have more pride in their positions, and less inclined to break the law, than the equivalent private sector worker?

Why?

They are representative of the state and should behave accordingly, private sector taxis truck drivers etc can and sometimes do look like slobs in their work and people just shrug their shoulders as they are only private sector but public sector are seen differently and if they can't behave while at work then people will form the opinion that all hope is lost for the state as it's employees can't obey a few very simple rules and laws and also that the states institutions are failing to uphold their own rules and laws regarding smoking in the workplace or using mobile devices while driving etc.

parsi

I suppose they should dress up and have crisp white shirts ready for when the skangers spit at them.

SC024

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

would you walk into someone's home or car and start smoking in it without asking permission?

Ah here we're, Thats comparing chalk & cheese like

SC024

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

No, there is just zero enforcement of the ban.

Have a look around and you'll notice truckers, taxi drivers and bus drivers doing it.

Taxi drivers I can kind of understand to a point, they'll most likely own their own vehicle but bus drivers and truckers, who generally are driving a company vehicle, I have no sympathy for at all, they're showing disrespect the their employers property as well as flouting the law

An awful lot of truck drivers are driving their own wagon with company logo's on it, take roadstone as an example...

SC024

foggy_lad wrote: »

Lets all just ignore all the little laws we dont like!

Do you obey every single law?

SC024

foggy_lad wrote: »

They are representative of the state and should behave accordingly, private sector taxis truck drivers etc can and sometimes do look like slobs in their work and people just shrug their shoulders as they are only private sector but public sector are seen differently and if they can't behave while at work then people will form the opinion that all hope is lost for the state as it's employees can't obey a few very simple rules and laws and also that the states institutions are failing to uphold their own rules and laws regarding smoking in the workplace or using mobile devices while driving etc.

Would you like a pulpit with that ? Reverend

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

I suppose they should dress up and have crisp white shirts ready for when the skangers spit at them.

Yes! Why not? Is it not a lot better then breaking the law? Should they let themselves slide down to the scumbags level? They know the job comes with risks just like most jobs but that is no reason to join in with the very people they would be using as an excuse for their illegal Behavior.

Do Dublin busses not have security screens anymore? How exactly is anyone going to spit at any driver as they are in a little fortress at the front of the bus! If a driver is operating with the screen lowered afaik it is not in accordance with operating rules/policy and as such the company could not support an employee who was not looking out for themselves by using the measures put in place at great expense by Dublin bus.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

They are representative of the state and should behave accordingly, private sector taxis truck drivers etc can and sometimes do look like slobs in their work and people just shrug their shoulders as they are only private sector but public sector are seen differently and if they can't behave while at work then people will form the opinion that all hope is lost for the state as it's employees can't obey a few very simple rules and laws and also that the states institutions are failing to uphold their own rules and laws regarding smoking in the workplace or using mobile devices while driving etc.

Cool. So if the bus drivers insist on your 92year-old neighbour producing his free travel pass you won't have a problem with it ?

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

Cool. So if the bus drivers insist on your 92year-old neighbour producing his free travel pass you won't have a problem with it ?

As I stated in that post "common sense should prevail"something that is lacking in a lot of posts as well as on a lot of busses where drivers smoke or use their mobile phones whilst driving, putting their jobs at risk!

With smoking in busses the common sense approach should be to give drivers a formal written warning and if caught again within 12 months instant dismissal. If they are so stressed out they need to smoke a cigarette illegally they should not be driving a 14 ton city bus!