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A quick'n'dirty guide to welding and finishing
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23-06-2011 1:13am#1So, my brother has a 71 beetle that through the magic of an expanding family went from the shed to become suddenly his daily driver to the train station every day.
Being that, it can't be off the road except for a day or two over a weekend.
He has gone on a weeks holidays and I am tasked with doing as much as I can to retard the 10 or so years it has lived outside, unloved in his one week holiday. So many rotten panels, so little choice.
I present to you a week in the life of doing a job right, but doing it fast and not to showroom condition, a frantic week of shaping, welding, panel beating and rough finishing to have a car that's not pissing water inside it every journey.
I am taking pics, (not enough!), and on my phone but I intend to show some of the craft I knew some years ago which I am now relearning after a kinda serious illness.
If this belongs in the classics section, feel free to move it mod.
No pics or progress right now but I will upload them and some explanation in a day or so. (If anyone is actually interested
)
Edit, she's a 67 Beetle not a 71!7
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OK, so I have been beavering away all day so I am having a well deserved cuppa and have transferred the pictures from my phone.
Apologies in advance for any blurry/crappy shots.
So to begin, I removed the back seat and the back left wing, here is what it looked like:
And from outside:
So time to do a little cutting and grinding.
Due to time restraints, I've ordered the above cross-member instead of making it, but I am making everything else myself. First on the agenda is the lower outside piece. I am including on it the side of the heater channel as it's gone and is just as easy to make it in one piece.
Unfortunately I didn't take a lot of pictures while making this but its basic folding. It isn't finished yet, still a lot of fettling to do, so I will try to take more of it (hard to hold the phone steady with one hand tho).
And after a little fettling:
That's one piece, in my next post (coming right up) I will show you how to make a curved flange.0 -
There is a nasty bit of rot here:
As you can see it is curved and has a flange/lip on the bottom. How do you make it I hear you say. Read on!
Start off by cutting a square of metal slightly larger than we need (easier to make em big and trim later than to go too small! Then between 2 bits of angle iron, hammer out your flange.
To obtain the curve we use a technique called stretching. This expands the outer radius, curving the panel. For this you need a hammer like this one:
Hammer the lip, making liner dents in it against the bench, then keep going back over the areas you want to curve, changing the angle of the hammer to create a 'crosshatch' pattern.
It takes some time, but it starts curving
and curving...
Now it is time to start offering it up to the body and comparing our curve
Needs more! HAMMER-HAMMER-HAMMER!
Ooh that's it
Now to chop out the old piece, I would usually trim up my piece, scribe around it and then cut, but as you will see there's a big lump of crap on the inside that I have to get out now too.
Yuck. Now I have a chance to see how close I got to the shape:
Pretty close! That's it for now, more to come.0 -
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Fingers McGee wrote: »Excellent post. Keep the pics coming, its very interesting reading.
Fingers, I just went through your camper conversion thread and was mightily impressed at your ingenuity! You are a lot like me, suck it and see, learn and move on to the next job. Afterwards see where you could have improved and stick it in the brain bankThe old man is in the middle of doing a 74 but has kinda got stuck in a rut.
I must show him your pics, see if it kicks him into gear!
Slidey, I restored a beetle when I was 17-19 and that was late eighties early nineties. How much later it is now and I haven't done a huge amount since then on that scale.
Tell your Da to do as I am doing. Pretend there is a deadline one ONE job. Forget the rest and just concentrate on that one thing. He will find that his list will slowly reduce.
I took a couple of post cutting pictures and I am much clearer now on where I need to connect the inside and outside, here they are..
Hello world?
A little view of forming a curve on the bench with my limited equipment.
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Fingers, I just went through your camper conversion thread and was mightily impressed at your ingenuity! You are a lot like me, suck it and see, learn and move on to the next job. Afterwards see where you could have improved and stick it in the brain bank
Cheers Spunj.
The build itself is almost finished now, more or less but I'm having some troubles with the aul tin worm myself. It's starting to look like I have some chopping out and welding in plates on the bodywork like you're doing here. Could do with more tips on shaping a curve in the metalwork though, as I don't quite get it from what you've said above.0 -
Fingers McGee wrote: »Could do with more tips on shaping a curve in the metalwork though, as I don't quite get it from what you've said above.
You have to mark your curve out and then get a dolly or block with a reasonably similar edge, then hold your line along it and 'flip' the edge over while moving the piece along the dolly. You keep going till you get the angle you want.
Like this:
So today this arrived, going to make things a little easier.
The bottom of the heater channel is worse than I thought and I am going to have to make a section
To get it in I have to lift the body up off the floorpan a bit. I took out a few bolts along the pan and came to this bastard of a bolt.
It eventually came out with the help of oxy-acetylene. Then I broke out my ever handy porta-power and jacked her up a bit.
And from the inside
Even more extra work, I am going to have to make something up for the inner heater channel curve too. As you can see to the left of where that red wire is running, its pretty nasty.
Well, I gotta get back out and start making progress!0 -
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So I am just back in from the garage and man am I wrecked. I have no idea if I can get this watertight by Sunday, my bro might need to call over and borrow a car for a couple of days
I ploughed on regardless. I wanted to get a look-see inside the back of the heater channel, so I decided I'd cut out the lower section and trial fit my replacement panel.
I found some alien metal tree formation. [David Attenborough voice] See how the limbs reach heavenward, almost as if they can smell their prey [/DAV]
The inside of the channel needs some repair, so that's the job for tomorrow, finally some welding
Here's the trial fit of my panel, not looking too bad...
Now, time for beer......................0 -
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Heh I have no clue what they are called, I call them "iron filings, loose washers and various crap from the ground pickup devices" :P
Seriously though, I got a bunch of them in LIDL I think, still have a couple of unopened boxes so I will let you know tomorrow
Edit: Oh and no clue what they cost, maybe a fiver?0 -
It's late, I spent all day in the garage. I haven't been able to move since I sat down. I am not used to all this physical labour any more, it's been a few years since I was up and about and any way active due to my illness.
This car really needs a complete heater channel, but it is not getting it until I can have more than a week at a time at it so I have to repair and make watertight what I have. Anything will be better than the mess that I have uncovered since I started cutting.
Before I start, Fingers here's a pic of the magnetic things, pretty sure they are LIDL.
So to the inside of the channel, I need to make a bit that follows these lines:
You can see there my trial fit of the cross-member (the black metal), more on that later.
There is a graduated bend with some curving and I will demonstrate how I replicated it. Now for the embarrassing bit. I spent ages measuring, scribing, bending and then discovered I made a bend the wrong way, lost me 2 hours fixing that
I will go ahead and do the pics for how I made it wrong, then the flattening out and re-bending after.
First, a paper/card template, I fold it into the contours, then transfer it to the piece and use a punch to mark out the lines.
Then I scribe the lines onto the metal.
Start forming the lines in the vice.
My trusty dolly:
Sometime here, I bent along a line the wrong way and kept going, the pressure to get it done has made me sloppy.
So I had to take the piece back and basically flatten out all those lovely bends.
Now, time to bend at the proper side. I was so annoyed that I did it without any pics, but the process is the same.
Here's it offered up.
I have more pics of a lot of cutting out of bad metal and offering various of my panels all together, but it was getting late and I never thought to take any pics (edit of the remaking of the bends).
Tomorrow, I swear I am going to weld the crap out of something!0 -
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Today was all about fettling, measuring, trimming and generally getting an idea of how it all fits together at the back.
First job was the inside of the heater channel. The bottom of this needs a hole for the running board to be bolted to. First I gave it a coat of weld-through zinc primer.
Then I drilled a hole and tightened in a nut and bolt of appropriate size.
A few blobs of weld (I still haven't set the welder up right yet).
Testing that it goes in and out after cooling.
Welding the panel in.
Starting to grind weld smooth.
Next I put the cross-member back in to see where I needed to adjust the flanges at the end of the panel.
The outer panel I made was offered up next.
The rest of the time I spent adjusting angles of lips till I got it mostly to where I am happy with the fit. Next I will be removing the old cross-member to half-way across the car.
That's all for now.0 -
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Spunj - excellent thread!
If you made some vid's of this as you were going id say you'd have some very interested customers!!!
Kind of like a car is born!!
Haha that would be something alright. I'd have to wear a paper bag on my head and get someone to overdub my cultie accent though
What is that weld-through zinc primer stuff? Is it stuff you paint on? Where can it be got, how much?
It's something like this (I just did a quick search on Halfords)0 -
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What equipment have you got Spun?
How expensive is it to get started into this type of welding? Thanks..
Hmm that's a kinda hard question to answer. I have a MIG welder, 'tis a cheap enough one bur works OK, think it was around 200+ but not sure. You also need a bottle of Argoshield, a big one is around 100.
As for other equipment, you need a mask (I use a self-dimming one, so handy), gloves, assorted hammers, welding grips, snips, angle grinders with cutting and grinding disks of all types, dollies, a vice and I could go on and on
Back to the project. Yesterday I was so exhausted that I only got about an hour's work done. Today I was back in action. Time to take out the whole half of the cross-member.
Drilling spot welds:
Out, but not without a lot of swearing as the metal was very weak and ripped as I was trying to work the bit off.
Next step was to make up a reinforcing strip for it
I hadn't set the welder up yet, so now time to experiment on a piece of scrap. You can see from top to bottom as I adjusted power, wire speed etc. getting closer to a nice weld, then going too far and burning through, along with a few plug welds.
Here's the rear side penetration:
A pic of my welder in its groovy wheelie bench.
Welding in the reinforcement:
Trial fitting the Cross-member.
A couple of my favourite tools. First the joddler/hole-punch. So handy for making holes to plug weld through.
My drill operated nibbler, cuts nice and clean and FAST with no burr.
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Main job for today is making a 1/3 or so section for the bottom of the heater channel. This has the captive nuts for holding the body to the floor and a strengthening angled depression in it.
First cut a strip of slightly oversize (nibbler!)
Next, mark the shape out, scribe and trim with snips.
Starting on the reinforcement rib.
The more or less finished piece.
Welding on captive nuts.
And nearly there, good penetration. Need to re-flatten a couple of spots from heat distortion.
That's it for now 0 -
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Today was tedious, lying on my back for hours pointing a drill upward is not fun, and doesn't seem like progress but it has to be done. I swear, VW made spot welds that you could find on the Titanic. Drill them out and you still have to smack a chisel again and again and they still won't break.
The bit you want to save weakens and the bit you want to disappear stays solid.
I have one picture,just offering my new channel bottom to the indestructible bit you want to cut, but it's boring.
I am half-way through the 50 or so welds, trying to keep the main lip intact.
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I am almost done with preparations for starting to weld it all together.
Today I finished cleaning up the heater channel bottom. Looking up from below, the tube thing is what carries hot air up the car.
Outside-in view of the piece that I need to make to be ready to go.
Bending/beating
Side view of shape
Looking down from above, checking the fit.
This piece needs to be welded in before I can close the heater channel and finish all the other bits.0 -
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Today's update. I have the heater channel almost ready to close up.
Lots and lots of offering various panels together, trimming, grinding etc.
Clamping the heater-channel bottom on.
The inside piece.
Channel from below.
Now I can start working on welding the inside piece on.
But NOOO! the rot here is way worse that I thought, I need to make a patch panel for it
Found a scrap piece of metal roughly the right size and pounded it into a curve.
Starting to tack it in. I am seam welding it from the outside-in, that's penetration there.
Further along.
Offering my side piece up.
Welding it in.
I'll post a few more later once I have done some grinding off of welds.0 -
A couple of maybe clearer shots after grinding
Under the area where door closes.
Toward the back of the car.
Tomorrow, it will all come together now that the channel top is secure and aligned properly.
Lots of welding and fitting of panels!0 -
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Today's update. Finished with the heater channel bottom, yay.
There are a couple of pieces needed on the side, where the running board bolts go in, not surprised that that's where they rotted out really.
To show another method of making (small pieces) I am cutting these out first, then copying them. The lines going in are to help me locate where to drill for my captive nut.
Chopped out:
To the bench!
Roughly drawn around. Then cut out.
After a bit of bending and fettling.
Next is to let the body back down and finally install the cross-member that was the original job 0 -
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Today I welded in those pieces and bolted the floor back to the channel.
All the captive nuts I made lined up! What a relief
Here's a few pics of the welding.
Spot, then short seams.
Starting to grind smooth.
Nearly there.
And the other side.
Tomorrow, welding in the cross-member and closing up.0 -
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you are an absolute genius it seems you could build a complete car from the most basic of tools
Lol, far from it. I am learning as I go and I have a long way to go yet. Thanks though
Today I welded in the outside panel I made.
Lining it up.
Start tacking.
Slowly (letting it cool between), short seams starting off a tack, "eating it up", then stopping away from a tack.
Close up of this.
Starting to grind off top of weld.
A little more.
Sin é for now, more soon.0 -
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Over the last couple of days I have been prepping some other areas and working out what to do next. My bro has borrowed a car and time is less of the essence.
Nevertheless this is still a quick'n'dirty guide so I will show you how I closed up and made watertight the rear section I have been working on.
This is the hole that is left. Note all the silver paint. That is 2 coats of Zinc-rich and 2 coats of Rustmaster/Rustbullet (expensive stuff).
All the repairs have had this treatment before or after or both depending on access and closeness to a weld.
I made a piece up in about 5 minutes by simply cutting it to the right size and hammering it in to the area to get a rough shape then finishing it on the bench.
This area is under the back seat and a clean finish is not a priority, so I just got it close and ran a seam the whole way round. Not bothered with grinding or smoothing here.
Quick, and dirty That's her watertight at that corner. I got underneath after and applied Rustmaster or whatever it is and tomorrow I will seam seal it and give it a coat of schutz.
Last pic is just a wider shot
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no1beemerfan wrote: »Was this car being driven as it was? Have you any full picture of the car before hand? Some brilliant work you have done.
Yeah, it was called back into service after my brother's wife went back to work. The only pictures I have of it are what I posted at the beginning of the thread. It didn't look too bad until as you saw, I started cutting into it.wow is all i can say looking at what you cut off it !
Haha yeah, I shoved them into a pile and went "WTF!" myself There's still a lot of little bits all over the floor too. 0 -
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