Petition - More locally produced music on Irish media

shayleon

Please spread the word and sign. More locally produced music and less mainstream American junk.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mlpmoir/

guitarzero

How about 'more good music regardless of nationality and culture'? If the best Ireland can brag about is Oh Emperor and Riptide Movement then god save us.

shayleon

That's the best you hear on mainstream media. There is an endless amount of HUGE talent in Ireland.

guitarzero

I'm not doing the Sugar Club, Whelans and The Village as much as I use to then but last I heard they all sounded the same. The same ol' folk and indie. The difference is one is somewhat louder than the other.
Either way, its not a question of national bands. These very bands that are Irish are plaguerizing these British and American bands.

NIMAN

If it means more Villagers, Mary Byrne or James Vincent McMorrow on the radio, no way I'm signing it.

guitarzero

Its a pet peev of mine is the Irish music scene. I got fed up of heading out to see my mates bands, the supporting acts or just ending up at a gig. It was just the same ol' crap. Checkshirt, sad eyes, safe, safe, safe generic rubbish. Or the indie lads with the designer beards and Top Man hat somehow scrounging out 4 songs using 3 chords. How these people cant see how crap they are is beyond me.

PaulBrewer

I'm in two minds about this kind of things myself.

My gut says most stuff doesn't deserve to be on the radio (and I'm including some of my own work here ) because it's just not good enough.

No matter how hard a band works it doesn't mean their work is worth anything - sad but true.

Alternatively countries like France have a healthy enough local scene part driven, I would guess, by the amount of radio play they get.

Spain seems to have a similar attitude but , having listened to Spanish radio a good bit while I was there - a lot of the stuff was shyt musically and technically.

As was clear by the repost I posted by Jenny Huston - the door to radio is open, provided the quality is there. From a personal experience the couple of tracks we did with J90 and Fox Avenue proved that (musical taste being an entirely different argument)

I'm inclined to leave things to market forces ..... no one DESERVES to be on the radio.

studiorat

if there was a law passed like in france we'd still only get Lizzy and U2 at four o'clock in the morning to make up the 40 percent.

I don't go to see bands anymore, but there's always been rubbish and always been good bands around. 80's, 90's 00's been the same...
The rubbish usually in the majority, they have always copied UK and US bands and always dressed like twats.

dav nagle

The rock scene in Dublin died when the bars taught it was a good idea to put bands on at 8PM instead of the way it used to be where the headliner wouldn't play until 11:30 PM and there was a BUZZ about it, I see country bars occasionally rocking it out better than here in Dublin for local acts, probably paid better too.

All the bars in the city sold out to the DJ's and bands were put in second place. What made Dublin so cool and has always made Ireland so cool is our rock heros but the pub scene sold out and opened the dance floors too early and pushed the late night rock vibe back into outter space.


Thats why the industry here is dead. Thats why I gave up trying.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'm in two minds about this kind of things myself.

Schizophrenia.

My gut says most stuff doesn't deserve to be on the radio (and I'm including some of my own work here ) because it's just not good enough.

I think you have to ask yourself (you probably already are) some philosophical questions, on why the stuff is not worth getting radio play. The bands need to ask themselves too. In my opinion, people have funny ideas about themselves and what they're doing. These days, a Take That record is more credible and out there than a typical rock/indie recording.

Radio play isn't everything. There's a lot of music that's not really suitable for radio that people like to listen to. But most bands are not making that music either.

No matter how hard a band works it doesn't mean their work is worth anything - sad but true.

Well. They didn't work hard enough. And often there's a workman like/ jobsworth attitude to music production.

One big problem music in Ireland has, most of it apes music from other countries without adding enough to it to really justify it.

If you look at someone like The High Kings, who play a rehashed Irish agricultural music, they've broken the million plays on Youtube. Bell X1 have barely gone over 100,000. It put the High Kings in a completely different league.

A lot of Irish musicians don't like, trad music, as it's often an embarrassing celebration of backwardness.

I know this would sound horrible - and will make you cringe - but if you threw in a fiddle solo - a bit of diddly idle ay - onto a typical Irish indie rock record. There are people both inside and outside of Ireland who would go for it.

No Irish band, that's a piss poor copy of Oasis is going to get anywhere - a piss poor copy of Oasis with some fiddles has a chance.

Alternatively countries like France have a healthy enough local scene part driven, I would guess, by the amount of radio play they get.

France has a quota system. This serves locals very well. But it rarely produces anything above the level of mediocrity. There's also the language thing. There will always be a market in France for songs in French. Germany, German. etc. If everyone in Ireland spoke Gaelic, and only had a smattering of English, there would a decent market that international acts couldn't compete in.

Ireland once had a quota system in the 80s. But the result was Do you want your auld lobby washed down sunshine,

Spain seems to have a similar attitude but , having listened to Spanish radio a good bit while I was there - a lot of the stuff was shyt musically and technically.

I think the last international hit the Spanish had was the Tomato song.

I'm inclined to leave things to market forces ..... no one DESERVES to be on the radio.

The High Kings deserve to be put up against a wall and shot.

But there is a moral in their success - Irish agricultural music sells. And it doesn't even have to have an ounce of originality. The High Kings are the equivalent of an English band starting up and playing the hits of the Beatles and the Stones and making a career out of it.

dav nagle

studiorat wrote: »

if there was a law passed like in france we'd still only get Lizzy and U2 at four o'clock in the morning to make up the 40 percent.

I don't go to see bands anymore, but there's always been rubbish and always been good bands around. 80's, 90's 00's been the same...
The rubbish usually in the majority, they have always copied UK and US bands and always dressed like twats.

Are you talking about the brown shoe rumple stilt skin look with wooden shoe?

krd

dav nagle wrote: »

Are you talking about the brown shoe rumple stilt skin look with wooden shoe?

That "look" is so fff'ing terrible.

It's actually funny - when Irish people do it, they look like smelly little Leprechauns.

Obi-Jim

Hmm, this thread seems to have gone too deep. (edit: sorry for the essay lads. But also, I believe Ireland has a higher percentage of musical talent than most countries, don't get down on the stuff you hate so much because even if 100% of music was good, you'd still hate 99% of it. Wading to get through to the cream of the crop is always going to be there, it's what makes the good stuff good)

Yes, we all think 99% of bands everywhere are ****. Everyone thinks this, yet we all like different things. (Lets just wipe out the bottom portion that are musically inept and are kidding themselves)

I don't think anyone has the right to say what "deserves" radio play. Even if it is utter tripe, people will think it's utter tripe and it will dissappear.

If anyone agrees with any radio stations anywhere playing ALL kinds of music, regardless of genre/origin/etc.... then you agree that they should play precisely the music that you utterly despise, because, of course we're all for freedom of expression for the things we already like.
So the choices are 1)it's good that anyone can play ANY type of music and be allowed the chance to prove themselves (which is idealistic i know and not real world applicable, but bare with me) or, to the point, 2) you're against it and believe radio play should be limited to what the bigwigs put in the charts for you.

If people like 1% of what they hear, then great. If they only hear 10% of all Irish music produced, they will like 1% of that 10% probably. If they hear 40% of all Irish music produced, they will like 1% of 40%. So, maybe even people already like 1% of all Irish music produced, they just don't know it yet. That's not a whole lot of music, but it's more than the tiny amount that gets heard now.

Regardless of **** bands, the more Irish music that gets heard, the better. Most of the time bands don't even get a fair chance to be heard by enough people, that is a problem. By the laws of human nature, if enough people hear something regular enough, there will always be a proportion of people that will like it. This is meaningless at the lower end of music because mostly the crowd is the bands regular friends and others. The others may not have heard the band before and might not again for another 6 months or so. Regularity is key. House bands are non-existant. Radio is the only way.

Having seen many more gigs than most, I've seen some absolutely brilliant bands around the country, good honest talent. Now, it does make it easier to see, having the musical and live production knowledge that I do. Most people could never compare a main stage festival act to a band in whelans (I hope most of us here can). There's so many production variables in there that anyone can sound awesome after 6 months hard production work.
For instance, came across Cast of Cheers' live show recently and they rocked the place. I had done a band a couple before so knew the tent, they sounded really amazing. Not a fan of their songs really, but they sounded great, way better than the local bands earlier in the day. I watched their whole set. Now, the only difference was, they arrived prepared, knew what was needed for amp sounds, drum setup, monitor mixes, they had an engineer equipped with a couple of unique effects and a set of backing tracks (and his previous work and pre production with the band), off they went to a fullish tent that made them appear on a different level to "the local lads", but in reality there wasn't much in it.




But anyway, I only thought all that because of what's above. But my simple thought before I clicked the thread was "Of course Irish bands need more radio play", it helps the music industry, it helps us, it helps bands.
I suppose I could have chosen the alternative answer: "No, the current amount of Irish music being played is fine", lets continue on our merry way. But really, we all think radio stations are fine?

It's not really as complicated as all that above. It's simple, more radioplay for irish bands is good for everyone, except those addicted to the charts. I bet a lot of people here don't even listen to much radio, or enough variety of radio, that an increase in irish music is going to have a zero impact on your pleasures. So, what I say is this: Sign the petition, stop the negativity about "industry", one tiny change will fix no industry. Smile and hope for more talent to come through your door, then go get it played on radio.

krd

Obi-Jim wrote: »

By the laws of human nature, if enough people hear something regular enough, there will always be a proportion of people that will like it.

I know what you mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y2uIhbzxO4

If I ever become a psychotic Irish gangster, this is tune I'm going to play to people who are tied up in a chair, with a gag in their mouths. Singing along, dancing around and then cutting off their ear with a razor.

Do you want your auld lobby washed down........sunshine?

guitarzero

krd wrote: »

It's actually funny - when Irish people do it, they look like smelly little Leprechauns.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!I know, stupid, smelly, potatoe eating ugly paddy, so ridiculous being Irish!!!

Anyway. I think all radio stations have their own intentions with the music they play conditional to ratings, profits, etc. So if the promotion of Irish bands were to benefit their ratings then they'd be doing it over night. Frankly, if Brian McFadden and Lady Gaga can get air play then, well, anything could.
Obi Jim, could you provide us with any links to these Irish bands worth listening to? Other than maybe 2 bands, I've never heard anything inspiring on the Irish music scene, its all been a mimicing show. I dont think the recording or live quality of the sound can make a huge difference to be honest, maybe more presentable, but musically, it can only do so very little much.
I may sound negative but I guess it boils down to taste. I remember booing a few bands one night in The Village, a Libertines ripp off and a kinda Mumford and Sons ripp off, interestingly a bunch of other folks started booing them too. I say let the crowd decide both radio and live.

krd

guitarzero wrote: »

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!I know, stupid, smelly, potatoe eating ugly paddy, so ridiculous being Irish!!!
.

Don't fight it. You're an agricultural person, from an agricultural country. There's no escaping who you are. No matter how many showers you take you will still stink of cow sheit, child abuse, and smug culchie ignorance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siscp-uvgrs

Obi-Jim

Anyway. I think all radio stations have their own intentions with the music they play conditional to ratings, profits, etc.

Yes, of course they do, they are a private business. This is why countries have cultural laws and whatnot. This is why marketing, money and power control the music industry, not music. France forces the radio stations to play french music so the business's do not choose the future musical development of the country, the country gets to decide that. Basic politics.

So if the promotion of Irish bands were to benefit their ratings then they'd be doing it over night.

It won't benefit their ratings. This is why France has a law to tell them to do it, because that is for the greater good.

Frankly, if Brian McFadden and Lady Gaga can get air play then, well, anything could.

You would think that, wouldn't you. Anything can get radio play with the same promotion budgets that these guys have/had, but if you're "better" with a lower budget, you won't.

Obi Jim, could you provide us with any links to these Irish bands worth listening to?

I think you might have missed my point. I judged that I liked the bands, not that you would. And no, i couldn't provide any links. Anybody that i've seen and bothered to follow up on, had below par recordings. I'm not about to go promote bands i may have worked with who I like, either.

I dont think the recording or live quality of the sound can make a huge difference to be honest

I'm a sound engineer and I disagree. I've done it/seen it/worked it. I'd be hard pressed to find a musician/producer/engineer/manager who i know that would agree either. Silly point. (oh and backing tracks are very musical)

Going to whelans, the village and the sugar club every now and then and hoping that there's a great band is rediculous. This is not "the irish music scene". It's a hungover epilogue of a scene that existed in the 90's and people still cling to because it's a base/centre, if you will

I say let the crowd decide both radio and live.

You've hit the nail on the head there. That's the whole point of it all. Let the crowd decide. If it's not on the radio, nobody hears it. Give them the oppurtunity to listen to it, then they can decide for better or worse, it doesn't matter, at least they are the ones making the decision.

I remember booing a few bands one night

You should be ashamed of yourself. Lowest of the low.

Every night you go out to a gig, be aware that of all the gigs on everywhere in the country, 99% will be crap. It's a shot in the dark, for sure, if you just go somewhere randomly. Bit of research, open mindedness and proper understanding of what a muisical production is, go a long way. But then again over 99% (everyone minus a few hundred/thousand) of people in the country will never see or hear of any good band, before they are "biggish".
Everytime you pay into a random gig, there is a 99% chance that you won't the music. Save your money if you're going to be bitter about that.



Oh and krd, I agree, it's a pile of cabbage. I'm not going to defend any music, but I will defend it's right to be heard. This allows us as humans to have freedom of expression and freedom of choice. Without that, it's just a corporate world of McMusic, the mainstream majority wins out and all other entities of the industry are destroyed.

the_syco

krd wrote: »

I know this would sound horrible - and will make you cringe - but if you threw in a fiddle solo - a bit of diddly idle ay - onto a typical Irish indie rock record. There are people both inside and outside of Ireland who would go for it.

Well, maybe a tin whistle instead of a fiddle, and you get Waylander or Mael Mórdha

Or you could just leave out the diddly, and listen to Two Tales of Woe...

=-=

Oh, and there's always diddly music such as Ding Dong Denny O'Reilly (NSFW)

flyswatter

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'm in two minds about this kind of things myself.

My gut says most stuff doesn't deserve to be on the radio (and I'm including some of my own work here ) because it's just not good enough.

No matter how hard a band works it doesn't mean their work is worth anything - sad but true.

Alternatively countries like France have a healthy enough local scene part driven, I would guess, by the amount of radio play they get.

Spain seems to have a similar attitude but , having listened to Spanish radio a good bit while I was there - a lot of the stuff was shyt musically and technically.

As was clear by the repost I posted by Jenny Huston - the door to radio is open, provided the quality is there. From a personal experience the couple of tracks we did with J90 and Fox Avenue proved that (musical taste being an entirely different argument)

I'm inclined to leave things to market forces ..... no one DESERVES to be on the radio.

As regards the radio play in France, I remember going on holidays there for 10 years straight or so for a good few weeks, max was 5.

They seemed to play a lot of American artists on the commercial stations and French language translations of those songs, there were French artists played yeah, not music of great quality by any means, catchy summer hits.

I was expecting to hear more of Air, M83, Daft Punk, Seb Tellier and other great French artists on the radio.

Would any talented Irish bands not be better off basing themselves in London/New York etc where there is a much bigger scene and a better chance to make it?

Are any Irish bands doing this?

Another thing I remember about France was in the supermarkets, they had French selections and International selections of CD's. Complete opposite of Irish stores where it would be mostly foreign artists. Then again, I noticed a serious lack of record stores in France.

shayleon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

My gut says most stuff doesn't deserve to be on the radio (and I'm including some of my own work here ) because it's just not good enough.
...
As was clear by the repost I posted by Jenny Huston - the door to radio is open, provided the quality is there.
...
I'm inclined to leave things to market forces ..... no one DESERVES to be on the radio.

Paul, I have to say that I totally disagree with you. I think that usually it's main stream rubbish that gets to the radio and usually if it's good - the radio DJs wouldn't recognize it.

From my personal experience - if you know someone from the radio - they will play your CD - otherwise - perhaps if you make some mainstream imitation of American rubbish you maybe have a chance, but if you do quality stuff, something unique with character - forget about it.

IMO there is TONS of talent in this country, but the really good things will never be heard. My only hope (though still very small) is that if the radio will be forced to play a LOT of local stuff, maybe then they will diversify a little bit more.

PaulBrewer

Show me some recorded evidence Shay ?

Mainstream radio, by definition, is always for the people who don't really like music, but enjoy tapping there foot to it, and that's fine.

Specialist Shows/Stations, again by definition, will always have a small audience as it represents the listenership. BBC 6 is my favourite and the UK can support suchlike.

Music, no matter how serious it's intent, is ALWAYS entertainment first.
Here's an example.
My friend does sound for the Tindersticks, a dour serious bunch if ever there was one - they're planning gigs/tour where they will play their music to accompany a silent film being projected behind them.
I thought it was an interesting idea- because it's entertaining.

Thems the rules - I don't expect they'll be changing anytime soon.

shayleon wrote: »

Paul, I have to say that I totally disagree with you. I think that usually it's main stream rubbish that gets to the radio and usually if it's good - the radio DJs wouldn't recognize it.

From my personal experience - if you know someone from the radio - they will play your CD - otherwise - perhaps if you make some mainstream imitation of American rubbish you maybe have a chance, but if you do quality stuff, something unique with character - forget about it.

IMO there is TONS of talent in this country, but the really good things will never be heard. My only hope (though still very small) is that if the radio will be forced to play a LOT of local stuff, maybe then they will diversify a little bit more.

shayleon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Show me some recorded evidence Shay ?

well, here's one from this week. we recorded 5 songs in 3 hours, including the video editing. IMO even in this little production it's 10 times better than most radio stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Aub_HWzsJU

PaulBrewer

Come on !

It's a very basic demo ... pleasant, underdeveloped, but hardly worth clearing the airwaves for now is it ?

Give me something ready for international public consumption or I hereby do declare you a waffler...

Show me this talent - and I'll sign the petition.

It's hardly KT Tunstall on Jools now is it ? This was her first TV appearance ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYEU91d8ngc


While someone may or may not care about the music - they certainly couldn't give a phuck how long, or otherwise, it took to make ..

shayleon

Paul, you may call me as you wish, and you can feel free not to sign the petition, but I sincerely think that the track I put shows a much better talent than KT. I actually got bored after less than a minute of KT while I love the other one.

dav nagle

shayleon wrote: »

Paul, you may call me as you wish, and you can feel free not to sign the petition, but I sincerely think that the track I put shows a much better talent than KT. I actually got bored after less than a minute of KT while I love the other one.

Shay your right that there is an abundance of unaired Irish talent out there, that girl you put up is a fine example of that, but it's not record quality, it's a live studio take right?

Most artists just wanna play music but not put the time and money into creating a full on production, it's their own fault.

PaulBrewer

shayleon wrote: »

Paul, you may call me as you wish, and you can feel free not to sign the petition, but I sincerely think that the track I put shows a much better talent than KT. I actually got bored after less than a minute of KT while I love the other one.

I'm only slaggin! No offence intended,we're all grown ups.

If you really believe that your one is on par with KT , or is ready for the public, then you're going to be pissed off with the music biz forever. I swear to you that is the case.

I just give KT as an example of the development needed of whatever talent is there - or it will be ignored, and rightly so in my estimation. Building a backing track live in front of such esteemed peers took balls as well as talent ... Not to be underestimated. I remember seeing her on the night and thinking she was going to do very well. I wasn't wrong.

To my mind a long away from 'pain o chocolates' ....

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

shayleon wrote: »

Paul, you may call me as you wish, and you can feel free not to sign the petition, but I sincerely think that the track I put shows a much better talent than KT. I actually got bored after less than a minute of KT while I love the other one.

Shay your right that there is an abundance of unaired Irish talent out there, that girl you put up is a fine example of that, but it's not record quality, it's a live studio take right?

Most artists just wanna play music but not put the time and money into creating a full on production, it's their own fault.

Dav - shown me the shyt ? I bet you can't ...

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Dav - shown me the shyt ? I bet you can't ...

What exactly are you on about 'shown me the shyt'? have no idea what you mean?

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Dav - shown me the shyt ? I bet you can't ...

What exactly are you on about 'shown me the shyt'? have no idea what you mean?

'abundance of unaired Irish talent out there,'

Show me 3 examples please ...

dav nagle

The industry is closed to people who are broke, because they need money to fund a band, image, music videos, marketing, which they don't have, so it all comes down to money not a lack of talent. Pump millions into anyone and eventually the sheep will believe in them. Your highly pessimistic towards Irish bands.

I should rephrase

''abundance of undeveloped Irish talent out there due to lack of support''

http://www.myspace.com/gypsiesontheautobahn

http://www.myspace.com/problematicmusic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FflFP8whmVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kYp2e3jrz4&feature=related

All these people are working hard and with the right production and marketing and SUPPORT FROM RADIO could be very good bands that could stand their own against any international record out there.

MilanPan!c

dav nagle wrote: »

The industry is closed to people who are broke, because they need money to fund a band, image, music videos, marketing, which they don't have, so it all comes down to money not a lack of talent. Pump millions into anyone and eventually the sheep will believe in them. Your highly pessimistic towards Irish bands.

I should rephrase

''abundance of undeveloped Irish talent out there due to lack of support''

http://www.myspace.com/gypsiesontheautobahn

http://www.myspace.com/problematicmusic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FflFP8whmVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kYp2e3jrz4&feature=related

All these people are working hard and with the right production and marketing and SUPPORT FROM RADIO could be very good bands that could stand their own against any international record out there.

The only one of those that I'd rate as being good enough to compete globally (IMO of course) is GOTA.

The singers in the others aren't good/special enough IMO. IMO. IMO.

MilanPan!c

shayleon wrote: »

well, here's one from this week. we recorded 5 songs in 3 hours, including the video editing. IMO even in this little production it's 10 times better than most radio stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Aub_HWzsJU

This is pretty ok... I think there's not a huge memorable melody in it... and unfortunately that dooms a lot of stuff to being just ok... IMO IMO IMO. Nice voice though... if kinda unmemorable.

shayleon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

If you really believe that your one is on par with KT , or is ready for the public, then you're going to be pissed off with the music biz forever. I swear to you that is the case.

I really believe 'my one' is actually better than KT and Paul - I'll bet our CD collection is very different. Perhaps indeed I will never hear what I like on main stream radio. My 'battle' with the music industry is this petition and so far it doesn't seem like even the artists themselves can be bothered...

shayleon

dav nagle wrote: »

it's a live studio take right?

Indeed a live take, but I do think there is a place for this too. One of my favourite albums is by Gyra and it's only himself and a guitar, one live take.

Perhaps different musical taste, we can leave it at that.

MilanPan!c

shayleon wrote: »

PaulBrewer wrote: »

If you really believe that your one is on par with KT , or is ready for the public, then you're going to be pissed off with the music biz forever. I swear to you that is the case.

I really believe 'my one' is actually better than KT and Paul - I'll bet our CD collection is very different. Perhaps indeed I will never hear what I like on main stream radio. My 'battle' with the music industry is this petition and so far it doesn't seem like even the artists themselves can be bothered...

It's tough, because as an artist I've run into the frustration of having very little support in Dublin, but then getting lots of support up north... And having radio folks choose extremely niche material that won't ever compete globally over us, and other more commercial bands.... But... At the same time, I keep waiting to see all these jaw-droppinly-amazing local bands, and they don't seem to really exist in the numbers some would have you believe.

IMO the irish music scene would much better serve the irish people and it's own long term interests by focusing more on mainstream, but unknown artists and less time on weird niche stuff.

IMO. IMO. IMO.

PaulBrewer

shayleon wrote: »

PaulBrewer wrote: »

If you really believe that your one is on par with KT , or is ready for the public, then you're going to be pissed off with the music biz forever. I swear to you that is the case.

I really believe 'my one' is actually better than KT and Paul - I'll bet our CD collection is very different. Perhaps indeed I will never hear what I like on main stream radio. My 'battle' with the music industry is this petition and so far it doesn't seem like even the artists themselves can be bothered...

It's no surprise to me at all Shay - an out of tune guitar and a song featuring buns can never compete with a skilled song writer presented with technical originality and a feisty performance.

If that isn't clear to you then I feel for you.

Milan , who's on a scene, can see that clearly too .

In my professional opinion , yer one is an undeveloped artist not ready at all for the public.

If this is your best example of 'Talent' you'll convince no one .

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

The industry is closed to people who are broke, because they need money to fund a band, image, music videos, marketing, which they don't have, so it all comes down to money not a lack of talent. Pump millions into anyone and eventually the sheep will believe in them. Your highly pessimistic towards Irish bands.

I should rephrase

''abundance of undeveloped Irish talent out there due to lack of support''

http://www.myspace.com/gypsiesontheautobahn

http://www.myspace.com/problematicmusic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FflFP8whmVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kYp2e3jrz4&feature=related

All these people are working hard and with the right production and marketing and SUPPORT FROM RADIO could be very good bands that could stand their own against any international record out there.

Dav,

I'll have a listen when I'm on an OS that will run Flash.

PaulBrewer

PaulBrewer wrote: »

dav nagle wrote: »

The industry is closed to people who are broke, because they need money to fund a band, image, music videos, marketing, which they don't have, so it all comes down to money not a lack of talent. Pump millions into anyone and eventually the sheep will believe in them. Your highly pessimistic towards Irish bands.

I should rephrase

''abundance of undeveloped Irish talent out there due to lack of support''

http://www.myspace.com/gypsiesontheautobahn

http://www.myspace.com/problematicmusic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FflFP8whmVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kYp2e3jrz4&feature=related

All these people are working hard and with the right production and marketing and SUPPORT FROM RADIO could be very good bands that could stand their own against any international record out there.

Dav,

I'll have a listen when I'm on an OS that will run Flash.

Actually I can watch the vids - the piano chap is interesting

krd

shayleon wrote: »

I really believe 'my one' is actually better than KT and Paul - I'll bet our CD collection is very different. Perhaps indeed I will never hear what I like on main stream radio. My 'battle' with the music industry is this petition and so far it doesn't seem like even the artists themselves can be bothered...

No.

What you've got there is a nice piece or pre-pre-production. She's out of tune a few times, the songs is without any real structure or depth to it, she sings it too evenly. The tinkle tinkle of her little finger plucking might be cute but it doesn't cut the mustard. There's no rhythm in there. Nothing grabs ya. And the lyrics - I would hope the trampoline is some kind of dirty metaphor - but then it probably isn't and she means it in a sincere and childish sense. Which for me, even young adults doing twee and childish is creepy. Pedophiles love that sheit but I don't.

I actually remember the first time I heard KT Tunstall's Black Horse. It wasn't on Jules Holland. I was walking along the street in Swords, and a girl with her car window rolled down was coming out of a side street, KT Tunstall was on the radio and I had a real what the fffff was that moment.

Now let's talk about Adele. Over the years, I've come across countless fat girls who could sing note perfect and soulfully. Even with their own songs. Bluesy with decent lyrics. And they might accompany themselves on guitar. There is a saying about the guitar: It's the easiest instrument in the world to play.......... badly. Imagine if you had an Adele, clueless about production, arrangements, and not such a hot guitar player - but she knows how to play tinkle tinkle simple basic chord arpeggios. So instead of using a chugging guitar rhythm, like KT Tunstall would, she decides to back herself singing rolling in the deep to her limited tinkle tinkle basic chord arps - she'll fit her singing around it even. Can you see where the problem is?

Seziertisch

krd wrote: »

No.

What you've got there is a nice piece or pre-pre-production

+1

Shay, sure she is obviously not without talent and has a certain whimsy going on, but the song has as much wrong with it as it has right with it at the moment.

If you want radio friendly it needs to be structured/restructured and it needs a hook (or hooks).

If you want to take it in a less commercial direction (like Joanna Newsom or something) it still needs both of the above, though you would possibly have more freedom in where it could be taken. And the whimsy would need some serious toughening up; mainstream radio can be pretty indifferent to lyrics good or bad if all the other stuff about a track is right, but for that kind of indie credibility/critics' choice thing you need edge, and although unusual, the lyrics of that song seriously lack edge.

And as for your CD collection being different from Pauls, I would go so far as to say that your CD collection might well indeed be different from the CD collections of the vast majority of radio listeners in Ireland.

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Actually I can watch the vids - the piano chap is interesting

Yep, there's some potential there. If he could put a little more swagger into his thang, we're in Morrisey country.

Forget radio play. Here I'm about to conceptualise something. What that guy doesn't need is to have what he's got there glitzed up. The radio is not going to want to play miserable songs. Radio, specialises in smug C.U.N.T.S playing music for other smug C.U.N.T.S......... listen to the radio. Songs about driving around in your new car, with your new branded trainers, picking up your smug girlfriend. There isn't any place on the radio for celebrating the outsiders and the miserable. It's mostly music for smug arses to shop to.

I think Kevin would be worth seeing live. And the production he needs is to keep mining that personal despair of his - to go as low as he possibly can go. Add a little swagger. A half decent band (one where the mediocre drummer isn't trying to swamp him - with his pointless para-diddles and hi-hat 16ths )

That is of course if Kevin has it in him. He may just be a Columbine school shooter type.

krd

Seziertisch wrote: »

+1

And the whimsy would need some serious toughening up; mainstream radio can be pretty indifferent to lyrics good or bad

The thing about lyrics. There are people who listen to lyrics and there are those who don't (or at least say they don't)*. BUT. Everyone hears the lyrics. They don't have to be that meaningful or be meaningful at all - but there needs to be something there for the singer to get behind. The Revellions "Sigh's" is typical Irish indie - of the variety, the singer has just done some filler lyrics and hasn't bothered to do the real ones. The chorus is "yahahaa, that's all I ever hear." <-- see he hasn't bothered to write a lyric. I'm surprised he didn't even try a Nietzschean aphorism. As hundreds of other Irish indie bands have. A bad lyric is as bad as a dragging drum beat. And they don't need to meaningful - Michael Stipe has written loads of songs with absolute gibberish lyrics. Same with Talking Heads - their best songs don't really make any sense. Another asterix for the sake of an asterix *


*For all the people who say they don't listen to the lyrics. It's very funny to be at something like Oxygen and hear the crowd sing word perfect along to tunes. Funny how they seem to know all the bloody words


* I really like the idea of the way Tudor Cinema write their songs... They have hour long jams where they try to find riffs and stuff - the singer improvises lyrics. If you keep doing it, you'll stumble across gems - keep going until you have enough gems. We don't hear the embarrassing stuff that doesn't work - that's been cut out. Bono has always done the same - I've heard the stuff that doesn't get used is absolutely dreadful - but he'll keep chipping away and mutating lyrics until they work.


* "Sing into dis mic, and don't make any mistakes" is not producing.

Seziertisch

krd wrote: »

* "Sing into dis mic, and don't make any mistakes" is not producing.

+1

dav nagle

I know people so good and yet so far removed from the opportunity to record a demo let alone an album. To be honest from where I am standing at the moment and I am surprised that it hasn't been mentioned how integral the role of a manager can be.. You put a savy manager with one of these acts and they will do better. Perhaps Irish bands suffer from cabin fever, always inside the box. The role of a manager is underrated with Irish people, all bands need one once they need the big push. Someone has to come in and whip the group into shape and get them where they deserve to be with a strategic no nonsense approach. I rarely ever see bands with managers? Why is that? An outside opinion like the role of a producer is so important so why do us Irish forget about management..

dav nagle

shayleon wrote: »

Indeed a live take, but I do think there is a place for this too. One of my favourite albums is by Gyra and it's only himself and a guitar, one live take.

Perhaps different musical taste, we can leave it at that.

No I love songwriters, from my own experience I can say that allot of them write one or two good songs and thats it! Thats what separates Paul Simon from everyone else or James Taylor. One great song is what most people write.

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Actually I can watch the vids - the piano chap is interesting

This is a fab track

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kevin-Harry-Hoban/116628298378088?v=app_178091127385

Seziertisch

dav nagle wrote: »

I know people so good and yet so far removed from the opportunity to record a demo let alone an album.

Dav, you have a studio, you are a producer, if these people are so good why aren't you getting involved?

I don't know many producers but the few I know that are doing it seriously have the attitude that recording good music is the most important thing, even if it means doing it in the evening after another session or on a day when there is nobody booked, or doing it for cut price or indeed nothing. If they are as good as you say these are these sacrifices from your side which should be worth making, particularly considering that in the recording industry reputation is the most important thing and the better the acts you record the better the end results will be, and the better the results you achieve the more work you will have in future. So even if you don't get paid today it is not without long term benefits.

A manager can shop an act to record labels etc. but can do nothing about the quality of what it is he or she is shopping. A producer can do something. There is no point in having someone to give the big push if there is nothing to push. Also, act that doesn't have money to pay for recording is not going to be able to pay for management.

dav nagle

Perhaps I will...Paul said I couldn't name 3 talented acts and I did thats why I posted it. Don't get me wrong I will and do help people when the opportunity arises. I would love to work with them and progress at least one of them to be honest.

krd

dav nagle wrote: »

I know people so good and yet so far removed from the opportunity to record a demo let alone an album.

To be honest from where I am standing at the moment and I am surprised that it hasn't been mentioned how integral the role of a manager can be.. You put a savy manager with one of these acts and they will do better. .

U2's biggest stroke of luck was Paul McGuinness. Before he came along, all the Edge had was a homemade guitar and a dodgy amp. He didn't even have an echo pedal. McGuinness got him the strat and the Vox amp.

Without McGuiness they would never have got near a demo studio. They couldn't even play when McGuiness picked them up but there was something special about them.

Without McGuiness, U2 would have been lost to history. Bono would have become a brick layer. The Edge a vicar. Adam would have died young, an alcoholic. Larry Mullen would have ended up in Brendan Shine's band - playing I'm a savage for bacon and cabbage - wishing he was ffffing dead.

krd

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's tough, because as an artist I've run into the frustration of having very little support in Dublin, but then getting lots of support up north...

I think there are few reasons for that. I have a feeling you've got a few peoples backs up - and there can be lots of reasons for that. You may have made a lot of the little urine stinking Rumplestiltskins jealous and upset. One thing I think is terrible about Irish people and the Irish scene - it's full of little bolloxes who think if they sabotage other people it gives them the edge - if there were a few exciting bands it would lift everyone's boat.

There is something really special about your band - but you've missed the nail as many times as you've hit it on the head.

And having radio folks choose extremely niche material that won't ever compete globally over us, and other more commercial bands.... But... At the same time,

No, I think that's largely mad theories you've got in your head. You've got nearly (and I emphasise the nearly) nearly great songs. But there's things wrong with them, like a having a bit of something stuck in your teeth. You have a lot of talent - but you're just not fully in command of it yet. If you could get it right - you'd be on the radio non stop.

I keep waiting to see all these jaw-droppinly-amazing local bands, and they don't seem to really exist in the numbers some would have you believe.

Pity you can't go see your own band. They can be pretty amazing - but they can also miss the mark.

Chris it's fun watching you do your thing. It's like a blindfolded kid trying to hit the piñata. So close. You land some blows - but as of the moment, no candy. And yet so so so close.

IMO the irish music scene would much better serve the irish people and it's own long term interests by focusing more on mainstream, but unknown artists and less time on weird niche stuff.

IMO. IMO. IMO.

Your opinion? ---- Who died and left you an opinion?

I think you maybe a little hamstrung by your theories. Are Kings of Leon weird niche stuff - or are they "mainstream"?

Chris, you've got to hit the piñata, or no candy, my amigo. Hit the fffing thing and it will rain down.

PaulBrewer

Get a room you two ...