Irish income "third highest in EU"

RHunce

Source

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0621/breaking48.html?via=mr

Average income per head in Ireland was joint third highest among the 27 member countries of the EU in 2010, according to new figures.
Eurostat, the EU statistics agency, found the gross domestic product (GDP) per capita last year was 25 per cent higher than the average - on a par with Austria and Denmark. Only in Luxembourg and the Netherlands had higher average incomes in 2010.

Ireland has suffered by far the largest decline in average income of any EU member in recent years. In 2007, per capita GDP was 47 per cent above the average for the 27 member union.

The figures are adjusted for price levels so that the purchasing power of incomes is more accurately expressed.

The figures may overstate the Irish position as most economists believe that another measure of income – gross national product – gives a truer reflection of wealth creation. GNP in Ireland is around one fifth than GDP. The former measure excludes the profits of foreign companies operating in the country which are unusually large.

GDP per capita in the member countries varied from 43 per cent of the EU27 average in the poorest - Bulgaria - to 283 per cent of the average in Luxembourg.

The nine poorest EU members were all former communist countries. Portugal is the lowest income country without a communist past. Average incomes in the Iberian state are 81 per cent of the EU average.

The figures include 10 non-EU European countries. Albania is the continent’s poorest country, with average per head income just 29 per cent of the EU27 average.

Strange one. Didn't think we would be this highly ranked if I'm being honest.

At least we're not in the same state as Portugal. :eek:

Sanjuro

Not really that surprising. Since we're intent on ripping ourselves off with incredibly expensive food, utilities, public transport, etc, we need high wages to pay for it. Add to that the Irish mentality of entitlement, and that'll drive wages up too. Sometimes this country really pisses me off.

emeraldstar

RHunce wrote: »

Source

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0621/breaking48.html?via=mr

Strange one. Didn't think we would be this highly ranked if I'm being honest.

At least we're not in the same state as Portugal. :eek:

Largest decline in income too though :eek:

Yahew

GDP per capita != wages.

miss no stars

we aren't that rich, there's just a lot of money passing through Ireland.

GDP = amount of money that comes through the economy
GNP = amount of money that STAYS in the economy (i.e. is available to people living in Ireland).


It says that our GNP is only 20% the GDP. That means that 80% of the wealth generated in Ireland on an annual basis is leaving the country. It is not available for us to spend.

Our GNP certainly would not rank us as highly as the GDP does.

Darksaga87

I'm so broke....

number10a

miss no stars wrote: »

we aren't that rich, there's just a lot of money passing through Ireland.

GDP = amount of money that comes through the economy
GNP = amount of money that STAYS in the economy (i.e. is available to people living in Ireland).


It says that our GNP is only 20% the GDP. That means that 80% of the wealth generated in Ireland on an annual basis is leaving the country. It is not available for us to spend.

Our GNP certainly would not rank us as highly as the GDP does.

Yeah. That's true. We were 11th in the EU in 2009, and it's only going to go down from there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_%28PPP%29_per_capita

martineatworld

Sanjuro wrote: »

Not really that surprising. Since we're intent on ripping ourselves off with incredibly expensive food, utilities, public transport, etc, we need high wages to pay for it. Add to that the Irish mentality of entitlement, and that'll drive wages up too. Sometimes this country really pisses me off.

"The figures are adjusted for price levels so that the purchasing power of incomes is more accurately expressed."

So I don't think your first point is valid. But I do agree with the sense of entitlement that seems to infest most of our nation. People seem to believe that quality of life is only on an upward slope, ignoring the need for tightening the belt, and blaming everyone but themselves for ignoring the fact the celtic tiger could not continue forever.

highgiant1985

just had a skim through as in work and they mention

"gross domestic product (GDP) per capita last year was 25 per cent higher than the average"

do they say what the average is? I didn't see any mention of figures would have thought figures would make it more interesting.

iamwhoiam

During the good times our incomes where higher than Germans income on average .So was our rent , our food , our bills , our cars, our clothes and our outlay .Its all reletive in my opinion ,.

dpe

miss no stars wrote: »

we aren't that rich, there's just a lot of money passing through Ireland.

GDP = amount of money that comes through the economy
GNP = amount of money that STAYS in the economy (i.e. is available to people living in Ireland).


It says that our GNP is only 20% the GDP. That means that 80% of the wealth generated in Ireland on an annual basis is leaving the country. It is not available for us to spend.

Our GNP certainly would not rank us as highly as the GDP does.

There's a typo in the Irish Times article; GNP is 20% less than GDP, not 20% of GDP. GNP for most EU countries runs between 80-90% of GDP. Ireland is at the high end ratio-wise but nothing like the IT article.

Daegerty

We're also still a low tax country among a select group of high tax countries that includes Denmark and the Netherlands not too much higher on the list.

So run to the nearest post office to pay your property, water & septic tank tax before the debt collectors show up

Anyone who doesn't want to pay these new taxes and those to pay up is a miserable sponger who should be executed

We're a low tax country, we make loads of money, things are fooking brilliant here!

Soups123

3rd highest??? I'll have one of them jobs please

Shenshen

Sanjuro wrote: »

Not really that surprising. Since we're intent on ripping ourselves off with incredibly expensive food, utilities, public transport, etc, we need high wages to pay for it. Add to that the Irish mentality of entitlement, and that'll drive wages up too. Sometimes this country really pisses me off.

The figures are adjusted for price levels so that the purchasing power of incomes is more accurately expressed.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Shenshen

Soups123 wrote: »

3rd highest??? I'll have one of them jobs please

Came here from Germany some 8 years ago, and yes, wages here are higher.
Even taking into account the higher cost of living, wages here still are noticeably better than any other country I've lived in so far.

R P McMurphy

miss no stars wrote: »

we aren't that rich, there's just a lot of money passing through Ireland.

GDP = amount of money that comes through the economy
GNP = amount of money that STAYS in the economy (i.e. is available to people living in Ireland).


It says that our GNP is only 20% the GDP. That means that 80% of the wealth generated in Ireland on an annual basis is leaving the country. It is not available for us to spend.

Our GNP certainly would not rank us as highly as the GDP does.

I can imagine that segment will be left out of the reporting when it comes time for out next bail out, will make better reading for us to be portrayed as living like extravagant kings

Naikon

I take it people that think this is a good thing don't understand the concept of proportionality? Granted, it's not that simple in economic terms, but you can be sure our increased wages are not a result of lower living costs.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Average wage is a next to pointless figure. Its like 45K in ireland

Most people aren't on that. The solicitors/executives etc earning 200K skew the average figure

gonedrinking

Our high dole and high minimum wage rate are the 2 factors that drove up the cost of living here. This in turn had the knock on effect of driving up salaries for everyone else and reducing Irelands competitiveness. When Kenny reversed the minimum wage cut I knew that was the final nail in Irelands coffin.

Cutting minimum wage and dole to reasonable levels was our only hope of kick starting our domestic economy, and now its clear that is not going to happen we can therefore look forward to defaulting in 2 or 3 years time.

Soups123

Shenshen wrote: »

Came here from Germany some 8 years ago, and yes, wages here are higher.
Even taking into account the higher cost of living, wages here still are noticeably better than any other country I've lived in so far.

Kinda always thougth that but always imagined cost of living meant it weighed itself out.

Zebra3

RHunce wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0621/breaking48.html?via=mr

Nice propaganda from Europe to try and guilt us into continuing to foot the bill of private speculators. :rolleyes:

mikom

Tubridy earns 1,000000.
Paddy earns 20,000

Their average wage is 510,000.

"510,000!"
"Bad Paddy, you are living beyond your means"

Morrisseeee

^^ Mikon has hit the nail on the head, ie. I was just imagining going into (another) yearly review and getting the same responce/excuse, whereas the person giving the review has a nice litlle 'top-up' (......again) !!!

enda1

mikom wrote: »

Tubridy earns 1,000000.
Paddy earns 20,000

Their average wage is 510,000.

"510,000!"
"Bad Paddy, you are living beyond your means"

I'd strongly expect it to be the opposite actually with our average been pushed up by the low end.

ejmaztec

It's irrelevant really, as there are only about ten people in Ireland with jobs, and the rest have either fecked off or are getting unemployment benefit.

Tar.Aldarion

the countries above and around us have very high tax as well dont they? Denmark etc

Cill Dara Abu

enda1 wrote: »

I'd strongly expect it to be the opposite actually with our average been pushed up by the low end.

What a ridiculous comment to make, so you think Paddy should reduced to 10,000 and Tubridy still on 1,000,000????

Tar.Aldarion

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

What a ridiculous comment to make, so you think Paddy should reduced to 10,000 and Tubridy still on 1,000,000????

what you smoking? He is saying our lower paid people will be better paid than other counties lower paid people, which will push us up the rankings.

Solair

gonedrinking wrote: »

Our high dole and high minimum wage rate are the 2 factors that drove up the cost of living here. This in turn had the knock on effect of driving up salaries for everyone else and reducing Irelands competitiveness. When Kenny reversed the minimum wage cut I knew that was the final nail in Irelands coffin.

Cutting minimum wage and dole to reasonable levels was our only hope of kick starting our domestic economy, and now its clear that is not going to happen we can therefore look forward to defaulting in 2 or 3 years time.

Actually, our high middle-of the road wages are what drive the costs up. The vast majority of Irish people are not paid the minimum wage.

From what I can see a very vocal lobby which seems to be mostly in the hotel/catering industry is desperately trying to make totally economically unviable hotels and restaurants which were built at the peak of the boom work by driving down input costs and are erroneously focusing on wages.

The problems in the hotel / catering business are being caused by the property bubble not the wage rates i.e. massive over supply in all the wrong places and market distortion by propping up zombie-hotels with NAMA.

The catering / restaurant industry is largely being crippled by insanely high rents that don't reflect market reality, all so that the banks don't suffer any losses on their crazy mortgages.

But, of course, right wing commentators and the various lobbyists seem to think that the best solution is to drive down wages so low that people can't actually afford to live / feed themselves.

Almost all of the problems in this economy come down to a single problem : PROPERTY BUBBLE.

House prices were too high so wages had to go up so that people could afford accommodation.

Commercial rents are too high, and many companies are caught up in legacy upwards-only reviews on the leases which is driving costs through the roof and all fo that feeds into high prices.

And because of our ridiculous way of funding local authorities i.e. via commercial rates mostly, local authorities are charging disproportionate rates to businesses also driving costs through the roof.

We need a take a holistic approach to analyzing the problems facing Ireland's economic growth.

There's far too much weird jumping on the bandwagon about "we must slash minimum wages" etc etc

Can we at least, get a bit realistic and actually look at cutting the things that are damaging business even if that means upsetting middle-ranking and high-ranking management, lawyers, accountants, doctors, politicians, civil servants, teachers, and many other powerful vested interests all of whom need to take maybe a 10-20% pay cut and probably consider paying some form of local tax to their local authority.

We also have to stop propping up the completely insane property pyramid that is choking the economy. The longer it goes on the worse it gets.

We cannot go on with all these high input costs and vested interests leeching money out of the economy.

That includes insane telecommunications charges, energy costs, professional service costs (law/accounting/medicine/dental) in particular and quite a few others.

No more market distortions or sacred cows!

careca11

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

what you smoking? He is saying our lower paid people will be better paid than other counties lower paid people, which will push us up the rankings.

higher paid people are much , much better paid here than other countries higher paid ...............thus pushing us up the rankings


the whole average wages thing is a joke tho it really distorts the whole picture

average wages in my company are €100,000
yet I earn €31,000 , thats 3 times less the average wage

Cill Dara Abu

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

what you smoking? He is saying our lower paid people will be better paid than other counties lower paid people, which will push us up the rankings.

What am I smoking????

Get real will you, I work in a company where Directors are earning €100,000+ and I can assure you the real workers get nothing like that, it's high time these people are targeted.

IMO anyone earning €70,000+ should be paying 50% income tax!!

Tar.Aldarion

Your reply to his post had nothing got to do with his post whatsoever is what I am saying, you misunderstood it.

Cill Dara Abu

I think you have misunderstood not me, he quoted the Tubridy-Paddy case, and was saying that if Paddy's wages was lowered the average would come down, nothing about Tubridy's coming down.

Tar.Aldarion

No he thanked me because I understand it, which you seem to still not.

mikom

God damn that Tubridy...... always causing arguments.

Cill Dara Abu

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

No he thanked me because I understand it, which you seem to still not.

Who said anything about "thanking" anyone?

Tar.Aldarion

careca11 wrote: »

higher paid people are much , much better paid here than other countries higher paid ...............thus pushing us up the rankings


the whole average wages thing is a joke tho it really distorts the whole picture

average wages in my company are €100,000
yet I earn €31,000 , thats 3 times less the average wage

I'm pretty sure it is both the higher paid people and low income earners pushing it up, and there are much more lower end income earners

enda1

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

What am I smoking????

Get real will you, I work in a company where Directors are earning €100,000+ and I can assure you the real workers get nothing like that, it's high time these people are targeted.

IMO anyone earning €70,000+ should be paying 50% income tax!!

Linky

Here's a little game for you to maybe assuage your irrational sense of entitlement and jealousy towards those who support you.

If you tax the rich - the most financially mobile and aware in society, you will start very quickly to bring in less money than you were with the lower tax rate. It is people like you and me who need to increase our contribution through taxation rather than those who really generate the wealth.

Its probably true that wages need to come down in public sector posts such as in particular the medical professions, but also god forbid, for teachers, gardaí etc. too.

Already caps are coming into place at the top end of the civil service and state/semi-state companies.

Why, morally, do you think they should give more money to the country (percentage wise) than you? Perhaps they can afford to, but what justifies it?

Tar.Aldarion

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Who said anything about "thanking" anyone?

You were saying I did not understand his post when clearly he agrees with me, is what I am saying.

Cill Dara Abu

enda1 wrote: »

Linky

Here's a little game for you to maybe assuage your irrational sense of entitlement and jealousy towards those who support you.

If you tax the rich - the most financially mobile and aware in society, you will start very quickly to bring in less money than you were with the lower tax rate. It is people like you and me who need to increase our contribution through taxation rather than those who really generate the wealth.

Its probably true that wages need to come down in public sector posts such as in particular the medical professions, but also god forbid, for teachers, gardaí etc. too.

Already caps are coming into place at the top end of the civil service and state/semi-state companies.

Why, morally, do you think they should give more money to the country (percentage wise) than you? Perhaps they can afford to, but what justifies it?

You answered your own question there.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

You were saying I did not understand his post when clearly he agrees with me, is what I am saying.

Oh so if he agrees with your post that means everyone else is aswell?

Tar.Aldarion

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

You answered your own question there.


Oh so if he agrees with your post that means everyone else is aswell?

That sentence does not make sense. What does it matter what other people think?
I said what he meant, he agrees that is what he meant, therefore what you thought he meant is wrong.

enda1

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

You answered your own question there.


Oh so if he agrees with your post that means everyone else is aswell?

I could afford it for you to come into my home and rob my television, laptop and iPod. It wouldn't morally justify it though. Again, what justifies it?

And do you think it would work? Don't you think that the majority of people, those coasting by paying very little towards the society they live in, rather, need to start paying their way a bit more?

Augmerson

miss no stars wrote: »

we aren't that rich, there's just a lot of money passing through Ireland.

GDP = amount of money that comes through the economy
GNP = amount of money that STAYS in the economy (i.e. is available to people living in Ireland).


It says that our GNP is only 20% the GDP. That means that 80% of the wealth generated in Ireland on an annual basis is leaving the country. It is not available for us to spend.

Our GNP certainly would not rank us as highly as the GDP does.

Serious?!

Cill Dara Abu

enda1 wrote: »

I could afford it for you to come into my home and rob my television, laptop and iPod. It wouldn't morally justify it though. Again, what justifies it?

And do you think it would work? Don't you think that the majority of people, those coasting by paying very little towards the society they live in, rather, need to start paying their way a bit more?

Who do you mean by "those coasting by paying very little towards society"?

Suryavarman

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

What am I smoking????

Get real will you, I work in a company where Directors are earning €100,000+ and I can assure you the real workers get nothing like that, it's high time these people are targeted.

IMO anyone earning €70,000+ should be paying 50% income tax!!

Why should they have to pay such a disgusting rate of tax on their income? Whats your reasoning for telling people that the harder they work and more productive they are, the less of their money they deserve to keep?

Cill Dara Abu

Suryavarman wrote: »

Why should they have to pay such a disgusting rate of tax on their income? Whats your reasoning for telling people that the harder they work and more productive they are, the less of their money they deserve to keep?

So you think Tubridy works harder than Paddy?

dpe

While I'm sure it won't stop people foaming at the mouth at the injustice of it all, blah, blah, Ireland is a more "equal" society than the EU average. Look up the "gini coefficient" (its an index of the distribution of income in a country) and you'll see Ireland isn't too bad (its about 21st in the world), ahead of the UK, France, Italy and Spain, behind Germany, Sweden and Denmark.

There does seem to be a deeply-ingrained antipathy towards wealthy people in this country. I wonder why that is?

Cill Dara Abu

What justified Bertie Ahern, Brian Cowen or Enda Kenny earning more than Barack Obama?

RachaelVO

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

What justified Bertie Ahern, Brian Cowen or Enda Kenny earning more than Barack Obama?

Isn't that the winning question, answers on a post card to...

Seriously though, there is nothing to justify the comparison as far as I can see.

Suryavarman

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

So you think Tubridy works harder than Paddy?

Seen as i don't know who Tubridy or Paddy are and i don't know what they do for a living it's a bit hard to tell who works harder. Considering Tubridy earns 50 times as much as Paddy I think it's fair to say that Tubridy's work is far more productive and deserves to be paid more than Paddy and probably many times more than him.

zeusnero

time to head to Amsterdam methinks! (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-21062011-AP/EN/2-21062011-AP-EN.PDF)

Yes, I know Luxembourg is no.1 but there's feck all there