Sinn Féin introduces bill to reduce salaries.

dlofnep

A Bill in the Oireacthas was today introduced by Sinn Féin that would reduce the salary and allowances payable to TD's, Senators and Ministers. The Bill proposes to cut the pay of senior politicians by 30% and abolish a whole raft of allowances.

I would like to see this bill passed, if anything to lead by example and demonstrate to the common working man that the burden is truly being shared across the board.

Something tells me however that it will not pass, as good intentioned as it is.

Jelle1880

I was about to come in here, '****ING BASTARDS STAY OFF MY PAYCHECK'.

But I tend to agree, the wages these people earn compared with the low amount of work some of them do (Sometimes limited to just showing up every few days) is an absolute joke.

RMD

If anything I'd say this is a publicity stunt. IMO They've done it to gain support knowing full well it wont be passed and they wont be effected by it at all.

That said, I would love the see the system for most allowances gone.

bobbysands81

RMD wrote: »

If anything I'd say this is a publicity stunt. IMO They've done it to gain support knowing full well it wont be passed and they wont be effected by it at all.

That said, I would love the see the system for most allowances gone.

But no Sinn Féin TD will be affected by it as they only take the Average Industrial wage as it is. The rest of their wages go into the party coffers.

Granted I would prefer if they gave the rest of the money back to the Exchequer instead but at least Sinn Féin TDs struggle to make ends meet just like the rest of us do and this has the added benefit of keeping "career politician" out of SF as folks joining SF know they'll never make money.

So if this Bill passes then Sinn Féin will suffer but their TDs won't.

Nijmegen

This is a welcome bill, with no chance of success. Pay for politicians and senior management in the public sector needs to be managed by independent and outside people with a public mission to deliver the best value for money.

A look at any salary survey, freely available, tells you that the starting pay of a TD, just over €90,000 PA, is a ridiculous amount. A quality control manager in a pharmaceutical company is worth €60,000 - There's an example of a really important job that requires years of training and involves much individual responsibility.

Just an example.

A public representative shouldn't get wages at director level in businesses. A minister maybe!

And let's not even get started on expenses with no receipts...

dlofnep

RMD wrote: »

If anything I'd say this is a publicity stunt. IMO They've done it to gain support knowing full well it wont be passed and they wont be effected by it at all.

That said, I would love the see the system for most allowances gone.

There's always one, isn't there?

How exactly is it a publicity stunt. Should they not take advantage of their new found ability to introduce bills, and just sit back and be 'nice quiet opposition'?

Hootanany

Please let this pass and then I would consider trusting are elite again.

Wolfe Tone

It wont pass unfortunately. Of course they will have no problem passing bills cutting wages of low level public servants or putting in water charges etc. Hypocrites.

Sure we had Stephen Donnelly(an independent I know) on here basically admitting his wages should be cut but saying that he wouldn't take a voluntary cut, typical attitude of politicians unfortunately.

Good move by SF, watch how the powers that be shoot this down but pass bills that attack the most vulnerable in society.

Patser

Why do so many people think this is a welcome bill? Everyone seems to have this idea that TDs sit around all day doing nothing, yet whenever you hear any TD talk or being interviewed they'll tell you they're pretty much on 18 hour days, dealing with Dail Duties and Commitees, answering and dealing with constituency issues, meeting with issue groups as wel as the more mundane getting out and meeting locals, so as to try get re-elected.

When Brain Lenihan died last week, every-one was at pains to point out how he'd worked himself to near exhaustion in his role as Minister for Finance.

But now Sinn Fein want to pay TDs the same as bus driver (I'm one) or a mechanic or a retail manager. Wow! Which job would you prefer for €30,000k after tax a year. Bus Driver that gets to knock off and head home after 10 hours odd work or TD that gets to head home and then deal with e-mails from 'Concerned Tax Payer' or rush off to meet the local Boy Scouts (knowing it'll be remebered for years if he doesn't show up).

One of Enda Kenny's 1st acts in pwer was to lower his own wages to below €200,000 - which means he takes home €95,000 odd. For the most important job in the country at a time of crisis, under intense and continuous pressure. How does that compare to Bank Managers? Semi State Managers? Micheal O'Leary? (Who every election we hear people bleating about how he should be put in charge!)

So to me this seems a lot of populist nonsense, designed to appeal to Sinn Fein's core vote.

Wolfe Tone

SF TDs seem to manage perfectly fine on the wage they take home.

Hannibal

Patser wrote: »

Why do so many people think this is a welcome bill? Everyone seems to have this idea that TDs sit around all day doing nothing, yet whenever you hear any TD talk or being interviewed they'll tell you they're pretty much on 18 hour days, dealing with Dail Duties and Commitees, answering and dealing with constituency issues, meeting with issue groups as wel as the more mundane getting out and meeting locals, so as to try get re-elected.

When Brain Lenihan died last week, every-one was at pains to point out how he'd worked himself to near exhaustion in his role as Minister for Finance.

But now Sinn Fein want to pay TDs the same as bus driver (I'm one) or a mechanic or a retail manager. Wow! Which job would you prefer for €30,000k after tax a year. Bus Driver that gets to knock off and head home after 10 hours odd work or TD that gets to head home and then deal with e-mails from 'Concerned Tax Payer' or rush off to meet the local Boy Scouts (knowing it'll be remebered for years if he doesn't show up).

One of Enda Kenny's 1st acts in pwer was to lower his own wages to below €200,000 - which means he takes home €95,000 odd. For the most important job in the country at a time of crisis, under intense and continuous pressure. How does that compare to Bank Managers? Semi State Managers? Micheal O'Leary? (Who every election we hear people bleating about how he should be put in charge!)

So to me this seems a lot of populist nonsense, designed to appeal to Sinn Fein's core vote.

No politician should be in the job purely for earning a fortune, yes they need a wage but not an astronomical fund. I know three SF Dublin TD's personally and they live in their constituencies amongst their voters and know the core local issues whereas FF and FG TD's are living in mansions detached from their people and relying on second hand information to inform them of what's going on around them.
SF TD's take the average industrial wage plus their expenses. The remaining amount goes to party coffers and is used to help pay for constituency offices etc..

Patser

Dotsey wrote: »

No politician should be in the job purely for earning a fortune, yes they need a wage but not an astronomical fund. I know three SF Dublin TD's personally and they live in their constituencies amongst their voters and know the core local issues whereas FF and FG TD's are living in mansions detached from their people and relying on second hand information to inform them of what's going on around them.
SF TD's take the average industrial wage plus their expenses. The remaining amount goes to party coffers and is used to help pay for constituency offices etc..

So what, politicians should only be people that are issue driven and happy to work at a minimum wage? Would that not severely limit the variety and experience of those willing to run? How many accountants or business men would say 'Shag this, I'll take a pay cut and limit my career, so as to serve my local area better!'. You will get a few but only the most issue driven - think Declan Ganly and Shane Ross - but at the same time there will still be compaints that no-one in a position of authority is in a positon they understand. Remember how the last Dail was often criticised for the amount of teachers were sitting TDs, while there were few trained accountants around to deal with the unfolding economic crisis.

So if you limit wages IMO you'll end up with mostly ideology driven candidates (mostly from the left) with a few Declan Ganly's thrown in - while succesful business minded people will run a mile and take their input and views with them

Samba

Patser wrote: »

So to me this seems a lot of populist nonsense, designed to appeal to Sinn Fein's core vote.

It's a blatant PR exercise and everyone can see through it but you'll find that most of the Irish people, the IMF, ECB, and a plethora of European ministers and officials would strongly disagree with you.

dlofnep

Patser wrote: »

But now Sinn Fein want to pay TDs the same as bus driver (I'm one) or a mechanic or a retail manager. Wow! Which job would you prefer for €30,000k after tax a year.

But of honesty please - they are not asking for reductions in wages to bus-driver levels. Where did you get that figure?

The current rate for MP's in Britain equates to €74,000 a year. The current salary of TD's before expenses & allowances is €92,671, from the latest figures I could find. That's almost €20,000 more than their British counterparts.

I don't care what you say, but when our economy is in deep trouble - our politicians need to lead by example and take a proper hit. A 30% reduction would give TD's a salary of about €65,000 before expenses. Even a 20% reduction would put them on par with their British counterparts.

bobbysands81

Patser wrote: »

So what, politicians should only be people that are issue driven and happy to work at a minimum wage?

Who said pay them minimum wage? Stop being facetious. ...and yes a politician driven by "issues" and a desire to do better for all the people of this State would be far better than a politician who is in it for the money.

Patser wrote: »

Would that not severely limit the variety and experience of those willing to run? How many accountants or business men would say 'Shag this, I'll take a pay cut and limit my career, so as to serve my local area better!'.

Who got us into this mess? The highest paid politicians in the history of the State, people who were (evidently) driven by power and greed. Hopefully we'll see the end of these career politicians as absolute power corrupted them absolutely.

Patser wrote: »

So if you limit wages IMO you'll end up with mostly ideology driven candidates (mostly from the left) with a few Declan Ganly's thrown in - while succesful business minded people will run a mile and take their input and views with them

Businessmen and accountants are the last people that should be running this country.

Callan57

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SF TDs seem to manage perfectly fine on the wage they take home.

Mary Lou's clothes shopping doesn't seem to be suffering anyway

Chucky the tree

I hope Sinn Fein actually vote for a reduction in salary this time, unlike last time where they voted to give themselves a nice pay raise.

Dannyboy83

I fully support this bill.
I don't know much about Pearse Doherty, but I do like what I have seen so far.
I think he lends some badly needed credibility to Sinn Fein.

The problem with a bill like this is that, even if it were successful, ministers would simply vote for an increase somewhere else.
e.g.
decrease ministerial pay, award ministerial 'hardship' grant, lol

Nijmegen

Patser wrote: »

Why do so many people think this is a welcome bill? Everyone seems to have this idea that TDs sit around all day doing nothing, yet whenever you hear any TD talk or being interviewed they'll tell you they're pretty much on 18 hour days, dealing with Dail Duties and Commitees, answering and dealing with constituency issues, meeting with issue groups as wel as the more mundane getting out and meeting locals, so as to try get re-elected.

When Brain Lenihan died last week, every-one was at pains to point out how he'd worked himself to near exhaustion in his role as Minister for Finance.

But now Sinn Fein want to pay TDs the same as bus driver (I'm one) or a mechanic or a retail manager. Wow! Which job would you prefer for €30,000k after tax a year. Bus Driver that gets to knock off and head home after 10 hours odd work or TD that gets to head home and then deal with e-mails from 'Concerned Tax Payer' or rush off to meet the local Boy Scouts (knowing it'll be remebered for years if he doesn't show up).

One of Enda Kenny's 1st acts in pwer was to lower his own wages to below €200,000 - which means he takes home €95,000 odd. For the most important job in the country at a time of crisis, under intense and continuous pressure. How does that compare to Bank Managers? Semi State Managers? Micheal O'Leary? (Who every election we hear people bleating about how he should be put in charge!)

So to me this seems a lot of populist nonsense, designed to appeal to Sinn Fein's core vote.

What about the idea that we should have patriots willing to work for reasonable money?

Tell me what a TD does that justifies earning more than a quality control manager in a pharmaceutical, a logistics manager in a retail company... Etc etc etc.

The argument 'the salary gets the talent' doesn't wash with me when you're justifying a starting salary of €90k with, lets face it, expenses top ups on that. I don't see the talent, and most of the talent I see are folks who genuinely want to make a difference.

The either/or argument on €90k vs minimum wage is a false argument. The demand is that they get paid less, more reasonable rates, and ministers get the €90k which is director level salaries for the private sector. I'd even give them bonuses if they met defined targets. Let's say, their manifesto...!

And what of expenses with no receipts?

Utter bull.

Patser

dlofnep wrote: »

But of honesty please - they are not asking for reductions in wages to bus-driver levels. Where did you get that figure

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Who said pay them minimum wage? Stop being facetious. ...and yes a politician driven by "issues" and a desire to do better for all the people of this State would be far better than a politician who is in it for the money.

Sorry but when Sinn Fein say thay'd like to see drastic reductions in TDs pay and how they take Average Industrial Wages themselves, it seems logical to assume that was the level they were proposing.

And as for Nijmegen's point about wouldn't it be lovely to have PAtriots willing to work for reasonable money. Yes it would be lovely. Highly qualified, competent, dedicated Patriots willing to work for reasonable wages would be fantastic. Willing to work for free would even better. Willing to donate millions of their own cash just out of love for the country would be inspiring. At what point do we start to get unrealistic.

It's easy to say things like 'Business men and Accountants should not be in Govt', that every-one should just be there purely out of pride but seriously do you really want a Govt run purely on idealism and dreams without anyone there with real, practical experience of high finance and managing a company. Who do you want talking to the IMF - Joan Burton and Richard Bruton, 2 highly qualified accountants with differing approaches working together for the country's good. Or Richard Boyd Barrett, Ming Flanagan and Gerry Adams. Seriously. Think about it, don;t just shout 'At least they're not FF/FG/Elite/Corrupt whatever!'. Who do you think the ECB/IMF will listen to more? Who'll make a reasonable request better?

Anyway I notice that in the North where Sinn Fein are one of the largest parties, they've set up a panel to judge on MLA's wages with it looking likely to lead to an increase. Sinn Fein's Pat Doherty is in this piece defending it all.

http://www.equalitylaw.co.uk/news/1221/66/100-000-panel-to-decide-on-Northern-Ireland-MLAs-pay/

STG£43,000 in a cheaper economy than down South doesn't sound chickenfeed either, why isn't this proposal for drastic cuts carrying up North?

Nijmegen

And as for Nijmegen's point about wouldn't it be lovely to have PAtriots willing to work for reasonable money. Yes it would be lovely. Highly qualified, competent, dedicated Patriots willing to work for reasonable wages would be fantastic. Willing to work for free would even better. Willing to donate millions of their own cash just out of love for the country would be inspiring. At what point do we start to get unrealistic.

I've suggested you look in salary surveys. Again you are making a false argument. Why not reduce their salaries by 33%, to the level of the aforementioned jobs I listed?

dlofnep

Patser wrote: »

Sorry but when Sinn Fein say thay'd like to see drastic reductions in TDs pay and how they take Average Industrial Wages themselves, it seems logical to assume that was the level they were proposing.

No, it's not logical to assume anything. The logical thing to do would be to actually READ what they were proposing instead of going off on a rant, with absolutely nothing to base it on.

Congrats.

Patser wrote: »

Anyway I notice that in the North where Sinn Fein are one of the largest parties, they've set up a panel to judge on MLA's wages with it looking likely to lead to an increase. Sinn Fein's Pat Doherty is in this piece defending it all.

http://www.equalitylaw.co.uk/news/1221/66/100-000-panel-to-decide-on-Northern-Ireland-MLAs-pay/

STG£43,000 in a cheaper economy than down South doesn't sound chickenfeed either, why isn't this proposal for drastic cuts carrying up North?

It might help you to read your actual own articles.. :rolleyes:

MLAs' basic pay is about £43,000, well below their counterparts in Scotland, £57,000 and Wales, £54,000.

43k for a full time politician is a reasonable wage for an MLA, if not a little shy. They are not requesting cuts in the north because northern politicians don't have over-inflated wages like southern politicians. If anything, as echoed in your article - they are paid less than Welsh and Scottish counterparts. 14,000 less infact.

BlaasForRafa

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SF TDs seem to manage perfectly fine on the wage they take home.

<Insert Northern Bank comment here>

In fairness to SF I do agree with the intent of the bill....but.....if they had any political courage SF would put forward a bill to reduce civil service wages....that would have an actual effect on the country's deficit whereas reducing politicians pay will save relatively little.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

dsmythy

dlofnep wrote: »

I would like to see this bill passed, if anything to lead by example and demonstrate to the common working man that the burden is truly being shared across the board.

Something tells me however that it will not pass, as good intentioned as it is.

Can they not just take home a certain amount of salary and give the rest to the party like Sinn Féin do?

dlofnep

dsmythy wrote: »

Can they not just take home a certain amount of salary and give the rest to the party like Sinn Féin do?

Well, if they implemented the 30% cut - then it would be of benefit by default to the tax-payer. Not that it will actually save the state a great amount, but it would certainly be a strong example that was set.

dsmythy

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, if they implemented the 30% cut - then it would be of benefit by default to the tax-payer. Not that it will actually save the state a great amount, but it would certainly be a strong example that was set.

I'm not against the idea. So presumably Sinn Féin TD's will have less excess salary to hand into the party?

bobbysands81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Granted I would prefer if they gave the rest of the money back to the Exchequer instead but at least Sinn Féin TDs struggle to make ends meet just like the rest of us do and this has the added benefit of keeping "career politician" out of SF as folks joining SF know they'll never make money.

So if this Bill passes then Sinn Féin will suffer but their TDs won't.

Ah thats just nonsense.
So SF T.D's get the aiw gross ? if they do they earn considerably more than the average punter.

Mary Lou ,their vice president certainly isn't struggling to make ends meet...theres a thread in the politics café about her house and it certainly isn't average for her constituency.

By the way,I hope the Bill passes.
€40k plus legitimate vouched expenses is enough for any T.D or minister.

It won't pass though because you need a strong salary to attract adequately qualified people to become T.D's and to compensate for the fact the job isn't certain beyond 5 years.

There should be a filter mechanism too for to set a basic standard for a T.D in terms of their ability do the job,scrutinise in opposition and legislate fairly in government.

/oh for the perfect world.

thebman

I think the current wages aren't that far out when you consider the jobs done. Maybe a little on the high side for the lower down members of the parties but otherwise, not so over the top.

The real problem is the expenses are ridiculous.

Hannibal

Patser wrote: »

So if you limit wages IMO you'll end up with mostly ideology driven candidates (mostly from the left) with a few Declan Ganly's thrown in - while succesful business minded people will run a mile and take their input and views with them

Politics is about ideology not about who has the biggest warchest to fund elections.
A few years ago successful business minded people would have been the likes of Michael Fingleton, Sean Fitzpatrick, Sean Quinn etc.. Are these the people you would like to see running the country??

Patser

dlofnep wrote: »

No, it's not logical to assume anything. The logical thing to do would be to actually READ what they were proposing instead of going off on a rant, with absolutely nothing to base it on.

Congrats.

It might help you to read your actual own articles..

43k for a full time politician is a reasonable wage for an MLA, if not a little shy. They are not requesting cuts in the north because northern politicians don't have over-inflated wages like southern politicians. If anything, as echoed in your article - they are paid less than Welsh and Scottish counterparts. 14,000 less infact.

Rant, what rant. I started off by saying sorry I made an assumption. If disagreeing with you is ranting, fair enough. I'm surprised you made it to a second paragraph before throwing in a 'roll eyes'.

And maybe it's you that should read the article. £43K is a reasonable wage for politician to take home, so why are they setting up a commision to benchmark their wages and get a pay increase. That's what it is, benchmarking because they don't get the same wages as in Scotland. So while down South they are doing press releases about how they only take home the average industrial wage as an example to all others, up North where they are in power they are taking home £16K more than average and looking for an increase. Read the article:

'But past attempts to give themselves a pay boost have proved controversial, which is why the independent panel has been set up.'

So since it was hard/unpopular to give themselves a rise, lets get independent benchmarkers to do it for us.

Dotsey wrote: »

Politics is about ideology not about who has the biggest warchest to fund elections.
A few years ago successful business minded people would have been the likes of Michael Fingleton, Sean Fitzpatrick, Sean Quinn etc.. Are these the people you would like to see running the country??

It's not about the warchest but about attracting people with different ideas and viewpoints but also with different expectations of a career. Would Fingers, Quinn or Fitzpatrick have got elected if they ran, No! But in the exact same vein as them Mick Wallace did, happy to see him in there? What about Shane Ross, who's a succesful business man and did a lot of great work as a senator to expose what was happening with Anglo, Fas and the M50 debacle. A few more like him would be great.

And Nijmegan, I wasn't suggesting a €90k or minimum alternative. Your ideas of €60/€70k ish are good ones too, and given that TDs have taken a few reductions over the last few terms I can see it dropping to around that level. My issue is with the idea TDs should take an average industrial wage or minimum wage. It smacks too much of popularism. But with Joe Higgins having done this for years (and now Claire Daly I assume) and also Ming Flanagan , I suppose Sinn Fein wanted to show they also could do it.

PatsytheNazi

Patser wrote: »

But now Sinn Fein want to pay TDs the same as bus driver (I'm one) or a mechanic or a retail manager. Wow! Which job would you prefer for €30,000k after tax a year. Bus Driver that gets to knock off and head home after 10 hours odd work or TD that gets to head home and then deal with e-mails from 'Concerned Tax Payer' or rush off to meet the local Boy Scouts (knowing it'll be remebered for years if he doesn't show up).

Maybe if we had in the past 15 years bus drivers or mechanics etc elected to run the country it wouldn't be in the mess it is in :mad:

Chucky the tree

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Maybe if we had in the past 15 years bus drivers or mechanics etc elected to run the country it wouldn't be in the mess it is in :mad:

lol, looking at the state of Dublin Bus I doubt it.

the groutch

Patser wrote: »

Why do so many people think this is a welcome bill? Everyone seems to have this idea that TDs sit around all day doing nothing, yet whenever you hear any TD talk or being interviewed they'll tell you they're pretty much on 18 hour days, dealing with Dail Duties and Commitees, answering and dealing with constituency issues, meeting with issue groups as wel as the more mundane getting out and meeting locals, so as to try get re-elected.

When Brain Lenihan died last week, every-one was at pains to point out how he'd worked himself to near exhaustion in his role as Minister for Finance.

But now Sinn Fein want to pay TDs the same as bus driver (I'm one) or a mechanic or a retail manager. Wow! Which job would you prefer for €30,000k after tax a year. Bus Driver that gets to knock off and head home after 10 hours odd work or TD that gets to head home and then deal with e-mails from 'Concerned Tax Payer' or rush off to meet the local Boy Scouts (knowing it'll be remebered for years if he doesn't show up).

One of Enda Kenny's 1st acts in pwer was to lower his own wages to below €200,000 - which means he takes home €95,000 odd. For the most important job in the country at a time of crisis, under intense and continuous pressure. How does that compare to Bank Managers? Semi State Managers? Micheal O'Leary? (Who every election we hear people bleating about how he should be put in charge!)

So to me this seems a lot of populist nonsense, designed to appeal to Sinn Fein's core vote.

this attitude is the problem with politics in this country.
TDs should fell privilaged to represent their constituents at national/international level.
it shouldnt be about pulling in massive salaries, all manner of allowances, golden handshakes and big fat pension pots.
If they want they can go work in the private sector, because there are other honest hard-working folk out there who would give their right arm to be a TD.

jimmycrackcorm

Typical of SF's whacky approach to finance. First we had Burn all the bondholders and damn the possible consequences and now we have a bill to cut TD salaries but ignore the fact that public sector pay in general was hiked up in line with Boom-time tax revenue increases and needs to come back down to a sustainable level.

We only need to glance across at SF in power in the north implementing cuts to see what they are really like, which is actually no different than any other party in power that has to deal with reality.

caseyann

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Typical of SF's whacky approach to finance. First we had Burn all the bondholders and damn the possible consequences and now we have a bill to cut TD salaries but ignore the fact that public sector pay in general was hiked up in line with Boom-time tax revenue increases and needs to come back down to a sustainable level.

We only need to glance across at SF in power in the north implementing cuts to see what they are really like, which is actually no different than any other party in power that has to deal with reality.

So them keeping their high wages is dealing with a reality ?


These things should be put to vote of the people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As always SF on side of people.

blahfckingblah

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We only need to glance across at SF in power in the north implementing cuts to see what they are really like, which is actually no different than any other party in power that has to deal with reality.

do i actually have to explain to you why these cuts are being implemented? its been repeated and repeated here and im sick of it to be honest. people should look at the situation from time to time before criticising it. first of its sf and the dup, and they are basicly allocated an amount of money to spend for any given year so enevitably there is going to be cutbacks.

imme

I thought SF was against the race to the bottom.

Pearse Doherty is SF Finance Spokesman since the election,
Is this the best response that SF can come up with even given their strengthened number in the Oireachtas, cut the pay of the legislators?

I don't think it will send a message to anyone if TD's pay is cut.

Is SF advocating that businesses should follow on from the proposed example and cut the pay of their staff.

If SF sees itself as the main opposition in place of FF they'll have to get a greater understanding of the world.

Pat D. Almighty

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Typical of SF's whacky approach to finance. First we had Burn all the bondholders and damn the possible consequences and now we have a bill to cut TD salaries but ignore the fact that public sector pay in general was hiked up in line with Boom-time tax revenue increases and needs to come back down to a sustainable level.

We only need to glance across at SF in power in the north implementing cuts to see what they are really like, which is actually no different than any other party in power that has to deal with reality.

What's the other option? Refuse to implement the cuts, pull out of government and then revert back to an armed struggle?

BOHtox

In the OP,
Should that not be politician's pay? I saw the same mistake while reading a Fine Gael leaflet that came into my house.

mistermouse

Sinn Fein need to set the example and return the excess over their average wage to the state, that would be seen as the true higher ground on this matter

Besides that, the expenses issue is another major problem, as is the value of decision making, corruption etc etc.

Everytime a Minister goes somewhere they stay in the best hotels, eat well etc. Rarely do politicians have to put their hand in their pocket to even buy a drink at a function. Then theres the crazy thing of naming roads, housing estates etc after politicians, not a financial thing but hardly something that should happen

A bill that put corrrupt politicians in jail, one that doesn't require a costly tribunal would be another start.

anymore

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Typical of SF's whacky approach to finance. First we had Burn all the bondholders and damn the possible consequences and now we have a bill to cut TD salaries but ignore the fact that public sector pay in general was hiked up in line with Boom-time tax revenue increases and needs to come back down to a sustainable level.

We only need to glance across at SF in power in the north implementing cuts to see what they are really like, which is actually no different than any other party in power that has to deal with reality.

Its a joke isnt it ?
Remember when they used to want to nationalise the Banks ? Hilarious..............

dlofnep

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

First we had Burn all the bondholders and damn the possible consequences

Nothing wacky about burning non-guaranteed debt or indeed non-sovereign debt. It has been done in Britain and the US in the past, and in Iceland - which have recently returned to the markets. The only thing wacky was asking the Irish tax payer to cough up for private debt. Next.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

and now we have a bill to cut TD salaries but ignore the fact that public sector pay in general was hiked up in line with Boom-time tax revenue increases and needs to come back down to a sustainable level.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You agree that the pay needs to come down to sustainable levels - but at the same time disagree.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We only need to glance across at SF in power in the north implementing cuts to see what they are really like, which is actually no different than any other party in power that has to deal with reality.

Your ignorance is amusing. You make it seem as if the north is like any other state, which actually have control over their own taxation to accommodate budget corrections, and don't have the risk of an entire political system collapsing if agreements between a coalition assembly government cannot be made.

The cuts made in the north were already implemented when the budget for the assembly was slashed in Westminster. As Stormont has no control over taxation - how exactly does one account for a pre-determined, slashed budget? Educate yourself, before you attempt to post any further nonsense. Thank you.

anymore

dlofnep wrote: »

Nothing wacky about burning non-guaranteed debt or indeed non-sovereign debt. It has been done in Britain and the US in the past, and in Iceland - which have recently returned to the markets. The only thing wacky was asking the Irish tax payer to cough up for private debt. Next.



This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You agree that the pay needs to come down to sustainable levels - but at the same time disagree.



Your ignorance is amusing. You make it seem as if the north is like any other state, which actually have control over their own taxation to accommodate budget corrections, and don't have the risk of an entire political system collapsing if agreements between a coalition assembly government cannot be made.

The cuts made in the north were already implemented when the budget for the assembly was slashed in Westminster. As Stormont has no control over taxation - how exactly does one account for a pre-determined, slashed budget? Educate yourself, before you attempt to post any further nonsense. Thank you.

How could pointing out the difference between a particular case and the general case not make sense ??

Let me try to make it even more plain - TDs are public servants. ipso facto, if there is a call for a reduction in the salaries of one category of public servant, then how can it make sense not to look at all categories of public servants who have received the same unsustainable wage salaries regime over the years. In fact the significant increases in TD's salaries have come about as a result of them being linked to public sector salaries in general.
Is that clear now ?
As for the lack of control over revenues, the 30 year Republican War is partly responsible for this. And of course the taxation raised in NI doesnt even remotely come near the Government spending in NI. In other words the entire political class in NI is living in cloud cuckoo land if it thinks that if it had control over revenue raising, things would be different - it wouldn't - in fact NI would then sink faster than the Titanic.....built in NI !

astrofool

How about the SF TD's take 30% off their supposed wage (the 30% of the "average" income), they can set up a charity for the rest.

They're putting forward a proposal that won't touch their wages at all.

maccored

why not have all TDs on an average industrial wage? Are you giving out that SF tds can already live on such a wage? Granted the extra money wont find its way into SF coffers, but you cant knock the TDs for already living what they are proposing.

blahfckingblah

astrofool wrote: »

How about the SF TD's take 30% off their supposed wage (the 30% of the "average" income), they can set up a charity for the rest.

They're putting forward a proposal that won't touch their wages at all.

so what your suggesting is you are against this proposal based on the fact that sf already do take a lower salary than their dail counterparts and therefore it wont affect them.... even though the politicians already arent getting the money. if anything id imagine you would be criticizing the party for taking the remainder of the money, which wouldn't be there if the proposal was accepted. blatant anti sf post there imo

anymore

blahfckingblah wrote: »

so what your suggesting is you are against this proposal based on the fact that sf already do take a lower salary than their dail counterparts and therefore it wont affect them.... even though the politicians already arent getting the money. if anything id imagine you would be criticizing the party for taking the remainder of the money, which wouldn't be there if the proposal was accepted. blatant anti sf post there imo

Just for the record SF Tds take exactly the same salary as all the other TDs - what they choose to do with their money is utterly irrelevant, isnt it ?
After all, their Dail pensions will be based on their Gross Dail salary and not the theoritical ' reduced salary', will it not ?

astrofool

maccored wrote: »

why not have all TDs on an average industrial wage? Are you giving out that SF tds can already live on such a wage? Granted the extra money wont find its way into SF coffers, but you cant knock the TDs for already living what they are proposing.

Because then the only people who run for TD are already loaded (due to the cost of running in the first place) and increases the level of elitism in the ruling class, rather than reduce it.

blahfckingblah

anymore wrote: »

Just for the record SF Tds take exactly the same salary as all the other TDs - what they choose to do with their money is utterly irrelevant, isnt it ?
After all, their Dail pensions will be based on their Gross Dail salary and not the theoritical ' reduced salary', will it not ?

yes its their own business where their money goes.

presumbly why?

Exile 1798

anymore wrote: »

Just for the record SF Tds take exactly the same salary as all the other TDs - what they choose to do with their money is utterly irrelevant, isnt it ?
After all, their Dail pensions will be based on their Gross Dail salary and not the theoritical ' reduced salary', will it not ?

And so will the tax they pay.