Sectarian violence ongoing in East Belfast

Wolfe Tone

Hundreds of masked loyalists are attacking a nationalist area in East Belfast at the minute. This is clearly orchestrated loyalist violence aimed at a small nationalist area. (Short strand is a small enough nationalist area surrounded by unionist areas)

Rocks, pipebombs and petrol bombs have been thrown. The PSNI have been attacked, petrol bombs thrown at landrovers. Unconfirmed reports of shots fired too.(probably fireworks imo)

It looks like the beginning of a loooong summer.


What political measures can be taken to try and prevent sectarian violence like this? It happens quite frequently around this time of year. I expect a lot more, many loyalists are angry at the decisions made by the parades commission, and when violence like this starts communities sometimes feel obliged to respond in kind, things escalate.

While SF and the DUP may play happy families in Stormont sectarianism is still a huge issue on the ground, the number of peacewalls has in fact INCREASED since the Good Friday agreement. Sectarianism is a problem which has not gone away.

A number of people have been taken to hospital as hundreds riot in east Belfast.

Petrol bombs, bricks, and bottles were thrown close to the Short Stand interface on Monday evening, after men in balaclavas and camouflage gathered in the lower Newtownards Road area.

UTV understands a number of homes on both sides have been attacked, and that a PSNI landrover is on fire.

There are unconfirmed reports that up to five shots have been fired from the direction of St Matthew's Church, and that one man is being treated at a nearby ambulance station for bullet wounds to his ankle.

Sinn Fein councilor for the area Niall Ó'Donnghaile is at the scene. He says the violence was deliberately organised by loyalists.

"We've had upwards of 60 to 100 masked men in army fatigues and balaclavas coming down the Castlereagh Road and attacking homes in the Short Strand," he told UTV.

"They subsequently moved round to the bottom of the lower Newtownards Road, all heavily armed with bottles, bricks, fireworks and petrol bombs."

The violence comes after police were called in to deal with trouble involving groups of youths in east Belfast in the early hours of Monday.

Stones and other missiles were thrown during the disturbances, which the UUP's Micheal Copeland said were caused by republicans.

"My understanding is that there's been ongoing attacks at this interface in both directions but yesterday evening houses in the Newtownards Road were attacked from the Short Strand," he said.

"Stones were thrown from the roofs of houses and this evening was a repeat of it. It's a very shocking sign that things are not all well."

http://www.u.tv/News/Sectarian-gangs-riot-in-east-Belfast/93477fab-1c46-4f3b-81b8-085d7180ca28

Jelle1880

It does indeed tend to happen around this period, it will keep going on until the Parades are over and then sort of stop.

No idea what the idea behind it all is, who can benefit from something like this ?

Wolfe Tone

Apparently its getting even worse now with people from outside the area arriving. Pensioners houses have been petrol bombed and twitter has exploded with rumors of people shot, unreliable as twitter is its clear that the situation is very tense and dangerous at the minute. The thing with this is these things rarely last just one night.

Hopefully no one gets too badly hurt.

Jelle1880

Sinn Fein saying people are injured, PSNI saying nobody has been injured...

This has been coming for a long, long time though.
Cluan Place (a nearby area) has been under attack for years now, but this never seems to be reported.

edit:
Images from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13851316
Check out the reporter playing it down, 'Mini-riot', wtf.

Hannibal

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Sinn Fein saying people are injured, PSNI saying nobody has been injured...

This has been coming for a long, long time though.
Cluan Place (a nearby area) has been under attack for years now, but this never seems to be reported.

edit:
Images from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13851316
Check out the reporter playing it down, 'Mini-riot', wtf.

A "mini riot" with the police vehicles being visibly attacked. The BBC play it down because there's union jacks flying in the background, if it were a tricolour it would no doubt be elevated upto something more serious.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0620/belfast.html

Wolfe Tone

Dotsey wrote: »

A "mini riot" with the police vehicles being visibly attacked. The BBC play it down because there's union jacks flying in the background, if it were a tricolour it would no doubt be elevated upto something more serious.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0620/belfast.html

Nothing mini about it now, people seriously injured apparently.

amacachi

No British Army intervention?

Wolfe Tone

amacachi wrote: »

No British Army intervention?

I presume you are joking?

KeithAFC

I heard 10 shots went off.

amacachi

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I presume you are joking?

When stuff like this happens on either side there should be an immediate rounding up of all involved whatever it takes.

Hannibal

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Nothing mini about it now, people seriously injured apparently.

You can tell from the pictures it's pretty serious.
This carry on will be a regular thing for the next few weeks unfortunately

Big Mouth

Hmmm now lets see how we can twist this so the nationalist / republicans / catholics are to blame.

Could be a hard one but i'm sure boards.ie will some how find an answer......

amacachi

I'm not familiar with the area so I'm wondering what they're targetting in the BBC video.

Jelle1880

Dotsey wrote: »

A "mini riot" with the police vehicles being visibly attacked. The BBC play it down because there's union jacks flying in the background, if it were a tricolour it would no doubt be elevated upto something more serious.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0620/belfast.html

Odd.
As I said, areas like Cluan Place have been under attack for years now, and it hardly gets reported.

Big Mouth: It's not twisting anything, it's simply stating that this is not random or unprovoked (this one is probably retaliation for what happened last week).
amacachi: They're targetting Short Strand, a largely nationalist area which is literally just across the road.

amacachi

Jelle1880 wrote: »

amacachi: They're targetting Short Strand, a largely nationalist area which is literally just across the road.

Yeah I got that from the article, are they throwing **** down the street or over a wall or front-on to houses?

KeithAFC

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah I got that from the article, are they throwing **** down the street or over a wall or front-on to houses?

Houses, obviously. With reports of burning.

charlemont

amacachi wrote: »

No British Army intervention?

Just proves to me that the authorities don't care about the residents involved, Its a pity they didn't have a few weapons to defend their neighbourhood.

Hannibal

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Odd.
As I said, areas like Cluan Place have been under attack for years now, and it hardly gets reported.

I know they've been under attack, but that's a lot worse than what's being going on for a good few years now.

Jelle1880

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah I got that from the article, are they throwing **** down the street or over a wall or front-on to houses?

There's supposed to be a wall between both areas, but I'm not sure if it goes all the way around Short Strand.
Dotsey: In Cluan Place houses have also been petrol bombed or set on fire, people being shot,...

dlofnep

Ridiculous behaviour. Loyalists trying to cleanse the area of 'taigs' as usual.

KeithAFC

Jelle1880 wrote: »

There's supposed to be a wall between both areas, but I'm not sure if it goes all the way around Short Strand.
Dotsey: In Cluan Place houses have also been petrol bombed or set on fire, people being shot,...

It was always coming. Even with the North parade the other day, tensions are high and it was always coming.

Jelle1880

dlofnep wrote: »

Ridiculous behaviour. Loyalists trying to cleanse the area of 'taigs' as usual.

Good to see the victim card being played.

Tell it to the residents (or should I say former residents) of Cluan Place, Madrid Street, Thistle Court,... who have been forced out because of republican attacks ?

This has nothing to do with trying to force people out, this is simply thugs using the events of a few days ago to stir up trouble.
And unfortunately it will keep happening in the coming weeks.
All we can hope for is that nobody gets killed.

Wolfe Tone

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Good to see the victim card being played.

Tell it to the residents (or should I say former residents) of Cluan Place, Madrid Street, Thistle Court,... who have been forced out because of republican attacks ?

This has nothing to do with trying to force people out, this is simply thugs using the events of a few days ago to stir up trouble.
And unfortunately it will keep happening in the coming weeks.
All we can hope for is that nobody gets killed.

Thugs in camo, gloves and masks. Loyalist paramilitaries orchestrated and participated in this.

sdanseo

Wolfe Tone I love the way you think Nationalists are somehow totally innocent here, as if they have never been behind or involved in this sort of scurrilous behaviour. It's wrong no matter who's responsible. And if in doubt as to my loyalties, read my username.

The scary thing is, it's probably all youths who couldn't give you a reason why they're doing it. Scum of the fúcking earth. I dunno if anyone saw John Creedon's yoke yesterday where he watched an Orange march and while Jesus I would never go near one, I thought it was amazing that a) He was accepted by the lads b) He didn't get killed and c) despite being about as Irish as you can get he had the good grace to go along and see what all the fuss was about. I wouldn't be able to swallow my pride and do that (those marches just shouldn't be allowed).

As an aside - RTÉ really are the most pathetic excuse for a news service I have ever come across. Their website in this case is piss poor - updating it between midnight and 7am is something reserved only for election night. Even when they do, as you can see its two lines.

BBC, while utterly biased, at least provides a decent description.

Jelle1880

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Thugs in camo, gloves and masks. Loyalist paramilitaries orchestrated and participated in this.

Very possible yes.

edit:
sdeire, that's good to see, thanks for the link.

Wolfe Tone

Of course its wrong no matter who does it.

KeithAFC

sdeire wrote: »

Wolfe Tone I love the way you think Nationalists are somehow totally innocent here, as if they have never been behind or involved in this sort of scurrilous behaviour. It's wrong no matter who's responsible. And if in doubt as to my loyalties, read my username.

The scary thing is, it's probably all youths who couldn't give you a reason why they're doing it. Scum of the fúcking earth. I dunno if anyone saw John Creedon's yoke yesterday where he watched an Orange march and while Jesus I would never go near one, I thought it was amazing that a) He was accepted by the lads b) He didn't get killed and c) despite being about as Irish as you can get he had the good grace to go along and see what all the fuss was about. I wouldn't be able to swallow my pride and do that (those marches just shouldn't be allowed).

As an aside - RTÉ really are the most pathetic excuse for a news service I have ever come across. Their website in this case is piss poor - updating it between midnight and 7am is something reserved only for election night. Even when they do, as you can see its two lines.

BBC, while utterly biased, at least provides a decent description.

That link isn't working.

Jelle1880

It is for me, but maybe it's because I'm on an Irish ISP.
Just like I can't see BBC footage from the BBC iPlayer.

KeithAFC

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It is for me, but maybe it's because I'm on an Irish ISP.
Just like I can't see BBC footage from the BBC iPlayer.

Ahh. Cool. Always interesting to see something like that.

junder

Speaking to people who live at the interface, I can confirm that 2 people have been injured by gunfire, have not been informed yet how badly injured.

kelko1916

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ahh. Cool. Always interesting to see something like that.

you mean loyalist mobs attacking catholics ands catholic homes ? , or the culture that celebrates such attacks ?, intersting that our loyalist/ unionest / they shot gerry mccabe / type posters here are not condemming the actions of over 100 uniformed members of the uvf in attacking catholic pensioners houses last night

Fratton Fred

charlemont wrote: »

Just proves to me that the authorities don't care about the residents involved, Its a pity they didn't have a few weapons to defend their neighbourhood.

It will take a lot more than a riot to get the army back on the streets.

According to the BBC, the PSNI injured several people on the loyalist side with plastic bullets.

What more do you want? It is a police issue, not a military one and I would be surprised if the army even had the capability to deal with this sort of violence now.

By the way, there are reports of two loyalist rioters shot in the legs by nationalists, so it sounds like they do have weapons.

Stupid ****ing thugs, I fail to see how this in anyway shows loyalty to Britain, because this is not what Britain is about. I wish these twats would get some cop on and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

sollar

Alot of uneducated, unemployed youth in loyalist east belfast bored stiff and itching to get acting up. The summer violence is the highlight of their year.

They need facial recognition cameras at these riots and methodically go after each one and prosecute.. cut ther benefits etc.

nesf

Irish Times article: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0621/breaking2.html

danbohan

junder wrote: »

If only it was that simple and black and White, I spoke last night to people who live on that interface, one person I know was injured helping put protective screens over windows while petrol bombs and bricks rained
Down on them fr

you are trying to justify the actions of loyalist terror gangs and yet offer not one shred of evidence to back it up except ''somebody i know'' , it simple really , do you condemn the attack on catholic pensioners houses by 100+ uniformed and masked members of the UVF ? . no , i thought as much . you and keith etc are very willing to appear as upstanding citizens in your condemnations of sinn fein , ira etc when in reality you support loyalist paramilitary violence

junder

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It will take a lot more than a riot to get the army back on the streets.

According to the BBC, the PSNI injured several people on the loyalist side with plastic bullets.

What more do you want? It is a police issue, not a military one and I would be surprised if the army even had the capability to deal with this sort of violence now.

By the way, there are reports of two loyalist rioters shot in the legs by nationalists, so it sounds like they do have weapons.

Stupid ****ing thugs, I fail to see how this in anyway shows loyalty to Britain, because this is not what Britain is about. I wish these twats would get some cop on and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

If only it was that simple and black and White, I spoke last night to people who live on that interface, one person I know was injured helping put protective screens over windows while petrol bombs and bricks rained
Down on them from roof tops in short strand. This was not a one sided event and niether has it come out of the blue, there has been continued interface violence across Belfast for years. Even kids have been known to use Facebook, bebo, twitter and even mobile phones to contact each other across the interface to arrange fights between each other. All this has been
Bubbling under the surface. I find last night really worrying, while I expect this thread to degenerate into the usual us and them crap, just remember while some of you are getting your rocks of with your fighting talk, some if us actully have to live with the consequences of violence, I don't like to see peoples homes attacked or people hurt regardless of what side of the interface they live and I am really worried that things are going To escalate across Belfast.

Jelle1880

danbohan wrote: »

you are trying to justify the actions of loyalist terror gangs and yet offer not one shred of evidence to back it up except ''somebody i know'' , it simple really , do you condemn the attack on catholic pensioners houses by 100+ uniformed and masked members of the UVF ? . no , i thought as much . you and keith etc are very willing to appear as upstanding citizens in your condemnations of sinn fein , ira etc when in reality you support loyalist paramilitary violence

The irony.
How do you know all people there were members of the UVF ?
Do you 'know someone' ?

Fratton Fred

junder wrote: »

If only it was that simple and black and White, I spoke last night to people who live on that interface, one person I know was injured helping put protective screens over windows while petrol bombs and bricks rained
Down on them from roof tops in short strand. This was not a one sided event and niether has it come out of the blue, there has been continued interface violence across Belfast for years. Even kids have been known to use Facebook, bebo, twitter and even mobile phones to contact each other across the interface to arrange fights between each other. All this has been
Bubbling under the surface. I find last night really worrying, while I expect this thread to degenerate into the usual us and them crap, just remember while some of you are getting your rocks of with your fighting talk, some if us actully have to live with the consequences of violence, I don't like to see peoples homes attacked or people hurt regardless of what side of the interface they live and I am really worried that things are going To escalate across Belfast.

In your opinion, is this purely sectarian, or is it gang violence with the gangs split of sectarian lines?

Is this connected to the vandalism of the local catholic church?

Fratton Fred

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The irony.
How do you know all people there were members of the UVF ?
Do you 'know someone' ?

Men wearing balaclavas and combat fatigues are obviously UVF. Unless of course they are the RIRA, CIRA, UDA or just a few kids who went to the local army surplus shop.

Can'tseeme

Brian Rowan (BBC security correspondent) on The Nolan Show.

"UVF Orchestrated"-Loyalist Sources in East Belfast.

"Loyalists bused in from across belfast".

"Because of the HET, it is an attempt to destroy the peace Process".

sollar

Can'tseeme wrote: »

"Because of the HET, it is an attempt to destroy the peace Process".

What is the HET?

Historical Enquiries Team

KeithAFC

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Brian Rowan (BBC security correspondent) on The Nolan Show.

"UVF Orchestrated"-Loyalist Sources in East Belfast.

"Loyalists bused in from across belfast".

"Because of the HET, it is an attempt to destroy the peace Process".

I don't think so. It would of been worse if that was the case.

junder

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In your opinion, is this purely sectarian, or is it gang violence with the gangs split of sectarian lines?

Is this connected to the vandalism of the local catholic church?

This is connected to nightly interface violence that has been going on for years, and let's be straight here, other then the peoples homes who are being hit on both sides of the interface there are no innocent partys here. What we see here is the inevitable consequences of a almost nightly tit for tat cycle of violence

R P McMurphy

sollar wrote: »

What is the HET?

Historical Enquiries Team, according to him this is in response to their work as they don't want the truth of past actions to emerge

Can'tseeme

sollar wrote: »

What is the HET?

Historical Enquiries Team.

They're investigating unresolved issues from the conflict. I believe there is upcoming reports on unresolved UVF murders.

paky

this same old crack goes on every summer because of the hype the orange order parades bring. the fact that 2 people were shot last night shows very worrying signs and because of this i fear there will be retaliation which will escalate things.

i blame the orange order.

Jelle1880

paky wrote: »

this same old crack goes on every summer because of the hype the orange order parades bring. the fact that 2 people were shot last night shows very worrying signs and because of this i fear there will be retaliation which will escalate things.

i blame the orange order.

I blame their idiocy.

Wolfe Tone

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Historical Enquiries Team.

They're investigating unresolved issues from the conflict. I believe there is upcoming reports on unresolved UVF murders.

And apparently something to do with a supergrass. They aint happy at being investigated.

Jaap

paky wrote: »

this same old crack goes on every summer because of the hype the orange order parades bring. the fact that 2 people were shot last night shows very worrying signs and because of this i fear there will be retaliation which will escalate things.

i blame the orange order.

This has nothing to do with the Orange Order. I didn't see any of the scum who were rioting wearing sashes last night!
The area is a well known flashpoint in East Belfast...a flashpoint caused by both sides. And likely a minority from both sides...who don't even live right on the interface!

dan719

Is there anyway we can just cut the North off from the Republic and leave them to it?

People wonder why so many in the South are opposed to unification with this sh*t going on. :rolleyes:

Skrynesaver

charlemont wrote: »

Just proves to me that the authorities don't care about the residents involved, Its a pity they didn't have a few weapons to defend their neighbourhood.

Yay militarising local communities worked out well last time it was tried.

Regardless of which sect the half-wits involved belong to they should face the rigours of the law, this is an ideal opportunity for the PSNI to prove itself and make a shedload of arrests.

While I disagreed with the old sow on almost everything I'd have to agree that "there is no acceptable level" and that this is not political violence but thuggery. It has to be dealt with in a policing context or we'll end up further down the road of tit-for-tat until the f'ing unreconstructed apes on either side actually end up defending their communities from each other and progress will become impossible again.