Brewing kit but no airlock ?

bullets

Howdy folks,

Just bought a Coopers Home Brew Kit from the local offy.
I waited months before they finally were able to supply the kit for Cider!
since I dont drink Beer/Ale/Stout/Wine. (Vodka and Cider I love but little else)

Anyway, the kit has a large bin (with tap at bottom) a Krausen Kollar
(which looks like its something to catch the crud of dead yeast around the edges??) and a lid.

The Lid only goes on top but does not screw in or form a full seal.
There is also no airlock on top.

Wondering is this ok or not ?
I was asuuming it would not have a full airthght seal to allow gas out but thought the
airlock was to stop external air or germs etc from getting back in.

The youtube videos of the coopers home brew kits show a screw on lid
with an airlock. Wondering just how important these are ? and why the beer kit (bought the Cide mix separate) would not have one.

I've never home-brewed before (even if it is from a ready made kit that does all the hard work) so I will
either love it or poison myself.

~B

Donny5

Does the lid have a hole in it?

bullets

Nope, the Collar bit slots in which is removed after a few days,
and the Lid just simply has a lip on it so it gently sits on top.
It comes with two tiny plastic clips so the lid accidentally wont come off due to build up of gas but that's about it.

I might document by first attempt to see how I get on but would rather
not start before knowing if safe to proceed with current equipment or if I will need to seal the top, drill a hole and make my own airlock.

Here a pic:



~B

Donny5

Huh, well, I don't know, to be honest. I'd say you are grand, since some people just cover a bucket with a damp towel, and Cooper's is a good brand in whose interest it is that your homebrew goes well so you buy more. CO2 is heavier than air, so the lid should keep out any particles and the CO2 blanket over your beer will prevent oxidisation.

Irishrossoblu

Its the new Coopers Micro Brew kit. Its cheaper and has no airlock, but is vented or something. My local home brew guy was telling me about it.

bullets

Cheers guys thanks for the advise.
Will try it out tomorrow. It cost 125 Euros, came with everyhing I needed including a Beer Mix so I bought the Cider mix for another 25 and a heating belt too. Came with 49 Brown bottles and caps so looking forward to testing it out.

One thing from reading some of the posts here is that some people mentioned they were getting a Cider like taste from Larger and Beer that
was undesired. (since they were not making Cider)

The Kit comes with "Brew Enhancer 2" thats ment to do the following:
contains dextrose, maltodextrin and Light Dry Malt. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention.

Not sure to use that ^^ since since I do want a cidery flavour or to buy a bag of sugar.

Another surprise for a total newbie was that after things are brewed and before bottling you still need to add "apple flavoring"


If ya see me post here again in about 2-3 week ye will know I survived!

~B

Irishrossoblu

bullets wrote: »

It cost 125 Euro

Wow. Thats not cheaper than before. It used to be €80-€90. Where did you pay €125 for it?

bullets

Irishrossoblu wrote: »

Wow. Thats not cheaper than before. It used to be €80-€90. Where did you pay €125 for it?

Next Door off licence in Dooradoyle Limerick.

I bought the
Home Brewing Kit
Cider Mix pack
Heating Belt
An extra packet of carbonation drops
And 6 cans of cider to drink drink while reading the instructions.

Feckers charged me a total of 198.49 for the lot. :eek:
never questioned it at the time but I'll go in tomorrow to ask about the prices again. The Kit on its own was 125. So they may have screwed me for the heating belt which was an optional extra that I never bothered pricing.

~B

Donny5

I'm afraid you were charged quite a lot, although local shops are always fairly expensive anyway. Homebrew West sell that kit with a brewbelt and beer kit (not cider, though, or cans for that matter!) for €115 delivered. You could add a cider kit for €20 more. Could you bring back what you got? Or maybe just chalk it up to experience and avoid that place again.

Bugsyboy1

This video expalins the new Coopers Kit and why it doesn't need an air lock.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CraigTube#p/u/8/ihM298LGoZo

Donny5

Bugsyboy1 wrote: »

This video expalins the new Coopers Kit and why it doesn't need an air lock.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CraigTube#p/u/8/ihM298LGoZo

That guy is great, but goddamn does he go on and on and on....

bullets

Cheers! I was watching "Craig tube" last night but had not seen that particular vid. (I had got as far as the one where he was unboxing the same Kit! but the older version!) After about 6 pints last night I was nearly shouting at the screen saying Shut up Craig and get on with it! And drink yer pint instead of only taking a sip! but fair dues to the Man for taking the time to record it and put it out there

re: expense and stuff, had been looking at stuff for a while online including
things like starter kits and an apple press etc but never got round to buying it and reading here
about trying to use Apple Juice from supermarkets and having the preservatives interfere with fermentation etc.
When I saw the cider kit in the offy after looking at the equipment for so long every time
I was in there it was an Impulse buy! so my own fault for paying that much.

~B

homebrew.ie

Do not use the brew enhancer with the cider. Brew enhancer 2 is designed to go with malty beer so it would make a funky tasting cider you'd be best using brewing sugar but it will be fine with normal sugar.

The apple flavour sachet is so you can adjust the flavour to your own taste as same people like their cider dry others prefer it tasting really appley. Magnum is the only cider kit that comes with the apple sachet.

Mr Benevolent

bullets wrote: »

...trying to use Apple Juice from supermarkets and having the preservatives interfere with fermentation etc...

I'm brewing using standard from-concentrate apple juice atm, it's working well so far. 9.3% ABV though!

Donny5

bullets wrote: »

I was in there it was an Impulse buy! so my own fault for paying that much.

~B

Ah, well, over the lifetime of the kit, you will save plenty of money in booze.

bullets

Confab wrote: »

I'm brewing using standard from-concentrate apple juice atm, it's working well so far. 9.3% ABV though!

Looks like I'm gonna have a lot of fun so experimenting!

~B

MR PIGGY

Hi all,
Just like the first post on this thread i am using my Cooper Brew kit for the first time this weekend. I followed the instructions (starting on saturday morning) and all has gone well regarding the fermenting stage as there is a nice large head on the top of the brew. This morning (Monday) i removed the Krausin collar as the head had subsided in order to place the top lid back on. This is were i noticed something that i did that i think i was not ment to, 2 clips came with the unit to clip the lid to the krausin collar however i think these are only ment to be used for when storing the unit when not in use. I am wondering because the lid was cliped on would this stop the co2 from escaping and if so what effect would this have on the end result.

Please can somebody please help me out with this as i dont wont to go poisoning anybody on my first atempt.



Cheers

BeerNut

All the lid on a fermenting bucket does is stop crap from falling in. Lid on or lid off doesn't matter.

MR PIGGY

BeerNut wrote: »

All the lid on a fermenting bucket does is stop crap from falling in. Lid on or lid off doesn't matter.

Hi Beernut.

Please correct me if im wrong as i am a new comer to this beer brewing art, but i thought the lid had to be on so as to stop air getting at the brew. i thought the old water trap that use to be used was to let co2 out and no air in.

BeerNut

MR PIGGY wrote: »

i thought the lid had to be on so as to stop air getting at the brew.

Carbon dioxide is heavier than air, so a blanket of it will just sit on top of the beer and prevent air from getting at it.

Lots of commercial breweries use open fermentors.

Look mum, no lids:

MR PIGGY

Thanks Beernut,

I get what your saying now. What was the reason for the old water trap idea, was it there just to show when fermentation had stopped so as to indicate when bottling could commence.

Cheers:)

BeerNut

MR PIGGY wrote: »

I get what your saying now. What was the reason for the old water trap idea

When it is bubbling it shows that fermentation is happening.

MR PIGGY wrote: »

was it there just to show when fermentation had stopped so as to indicate when bottling could commence.

No. Just because there's no bubbling doesn't mean fermentation has stopped.

MR PIGGY

So the only true way of knowing if fermentation has stopped is to take a hydrometer reading.

BeerNut

Yup. Several, in fact. Once they're consistent, fermentation has stopped.

MR PIGGY

Thanks again for the info.

oblivious

Here is a great video from Sierra Nevada of open fermentation of their Barley-wine Bigfoot, great clips

http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/images/bigfootsmall.mov


Note the room is under positive pressure

oblivious

MR PIGGY here is pic of my fermentor, there is no air lock on this was i have a temp probe in place, i also leave the lid loses to allow CO2 to vent bug entering it

MR PIGGY

Hi all again.
My Coopers pale ale has been in the fermentor for 6 days now. I took a reading last night and it was at about 1.011. Now this mornig its about 1.008. I should say that i dont know if it is my hydrometer or me but it tends to got to about 1.005 and fluctuates between 1.005 and 1.008. Am i doing something wrong because i did not think it could go as far as 1.005.

Please help

Cheers

BeerNut

I think that's within the margin of error for something bobbing in jar. Are you calibrating for temperature?

MR PIGGY

BeerNut wrote: »

I think that's within the margin of error for something bobbing in jar. Are you calibrating for temperature?

When i leave it sit for a while it seems to rise to 1.008/.9. Can you please explain the calibration for temperature.

Thanks

BeerNut

Your hydrometer is only accurate when the liquid is 20C. You need to adjust the reading when it's different. You can use something like this.

MR PIGGY

Hello again,

I presume my new coopers bottles need to be sanatised before first use.As i dont have a particular bottler washer/sanatiser will a good slush around in a basin of water/milton mixture followed by a rince in cold water do the trick.

Cheers

irish_goat

MR PIGGY wrote: »

Hello again,

I presume my new coopers bottles need to be sanatised before first use.As i dont have a particular bottler washer/sanatiser will a good slush around in a basin of water/milton mixture followed by a rince in cold water do the trick.

Cheers

That's what I did.

To make things cheaper you could fill a basin of water and throw 30ml of white vinegar and 30ml of thin bleach and it'll do the job too.

MR PIGGY

irish_goat wrote: »

That's what I did.

To make things cheaper you could fill a basin of water and throw 30ml of white vinegar and 30ml of thin bleach and it'll do the job too.

Did you use Milton or the mix that you speak of. Also i have seen many people state that they use thin bleach, now not to sound like a dummie but i have look in tescos for a thin bleach and could not see any. Am i looking in the wrong place.

Thanks

MR PIGGY

Also was your first brew in a cooper unit. How long did it take before you bottled it.

Donny5

Thin bleach is just runny bleach, as opposed to thick bleach like the kind you use to clean toilets and the like. Thick bleach is less viscous so it sticks to surfaces.

Vinegar and bleach or Milton both have the same result, a chlorine solution that will sterilise. If you go the vinegar and bleach route, add the vinegar to the water, then the bleach. If you mix the two neat, you'll get chlorine gas which is quite unpleasant!

As for when to bottle, give it a week, and then start taking hydrometer samples. Once the hydrometer reading is the same over a couple of days, bottle.

irish_goat

I used a basin with sanitiser powder in it but only cause it was beside the sink anyway and I didn't have any white vinegar.

That's the thin stuff.


A small amount of thick bleach (domestos) mixed with boiling water will do the same job. As Donny says, you just don't want the thick bleach clumping together and sticking to your bottles.

And you'll need to invest in a bottle scrubber/brush if you plan to reuse them.

MR PIGGY

Thanks very much lads

homebrew.ie

hi Folks.
There are loads of sterlizers out there that are a lot safer than bleach so why would you risk it? you wouldnt wash the plate you are going eat off with bleach you would use washing up liquid. its the same deal wit the bottles you are goung to drink out of.

Donny5

homebrew.ie wrote: »

hi Folks.
There are loads of sterlizers out there that are a lot safer than bleach so why would you risk it? you wouldnt wash the plate you are going eat off with bleach you would use washing up liquid. its the same deal wit the bottles you are goung to drink out of.

What the hell are you talking about? We're talking about mixing sodium hypochlorite and acetic acid to produce chlorine and water. It's not dangerous to your health and I'd happily eat from plates washed in it. In fact, I've often drunk water sterilised with chlorine when drinking from a suspicious water source.

BeerNut

homebrew.ie wrote: »

There are loads of sterlizers out there that are a lot safer than bleach so why would you risk it?

It's cheaper and 100% safe and reliable.

homebrew.ie wrote: »

you wouldnt wash the plate you are going eat off with bleach you would use washing up liquid. its the same deal wit the bottles you are goung to drink out of.

30ml of bleach in 20L of water is far less toxic than a squirt of washing up liquid.

I think you're just looking at the word bleach and thinking "Arrgh! That's poison!" Everything's poisonous in high enough concetration. Use the bleach correctly and it's fine.

oblivious

homebrew.ie wrote: »

hi Folks.
There are loads of sterlizers out there that are a lot safer than bleach so why would you risk it? you wouldnt wash the plate you are going eat off with bleach you would use washing up liquid. its the same deal wit the bottles you are goung to drink out of.

a mix of 30ml bleach and 30mls vinegar, in 20 liters will produce a no rinse solution, with really no residue

oblivious

homebrew.ie wrote: »

hi Folks.
There are loads of sterlizers out there that are a lot safer than bleach so why would you risk it? you wouldnt wash the plate you are going eat off with bleach you would use washing up liquid. its the same deal wit the bottles you are goung to drink out of.

Any yet i don't see you sell Star san, the gold stand for sanitizing in brewing

MR PIGGY

oblivious wrote: »

a mix of 30ml bleach and 30mls vinegar, in 20 liters will produce a no rinse solution, with really no residue

Question for Oblivious.

Is this mix really a no rinse solution or would i be better to give them a rinse in some fresh water afterwards, it should be noted that there is a faint smell of chlorine of my water supply.

Cheers

homebrew.ie

Even if that mix is no rinse there is no way i recon that it can be good for you (just my oponion). Milton i have no objection to as it is safe aswell and Oblivious we dont stock that either. Im not here to sell just its because i saw bleach being used and every supplier i have aswell as me say that that is a big no no

oblivious

MR PIGGY wrote: »

Question for Oblivious.

Is this mix really a no rinse solution or would i be better to give them a rinse in some fresh water afterwards, it should be noted that there is a faint smell of chlorine of my water supply.

Cheers

No rinse just let it be

irish_goat

Remember lads you're only using a tiny amount of bleach in the first place. Once that's diluted down only an even tinier amount is going to end up on the inside of your bottles(it's not like you won't let the bottles drain) and then any bleach that might be left in there will be diluted down even more by your beer. No problems...

rubadub

homebrew.ie wrote: »

you wouldnt wash the plate you are going eat off with bleach you would use washing up liquid. its the same deal wit the bottles you are goung to drink out of.

homebrew.ie wrote: »

Milton i have no objection to as it is safe aswell

Milton is 2% sodium hypochlorite with some salt, tesco value bleach is <5% sodium hypochlorite, which would have some salt in it since as it degrades over time it will turn into salt & gas.

http://www.milton-tm.com/How_milton_works.html

What is Milton Fluid?
The Milton Sterilising Fluid is a 2% aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite that contains 16.5% salt.

Milton just charge a fortune for it since they have a strange hold on some worried mothers, many who would never dream of washing their babys bottle with "toilet cleaner", which is really the same thing.

Donny5

homebrew.ie wrote: »

Even if that mix is no rinse there is no way i recon that it can be good for you (just my oponion). Milton i have no objection to as it is safe aswell and Oblivious we dont stock that either. Im not here to sell just its because i saw bleach being used and every supplier i have aswell as me say that that is a big no no

Homebrew, what you reckon doesn't matter. Milton is a sodium hydroclorate solution, which as you might not know, is bleach. Anyway, we are not sterilising with bleach, we are using bleach and vinegar to produce chlorine, which is the sterilising agent.

Your suppliers can say what they want, but billions of people rely every day on chlorination for safe drinking water, and there is no danger whatsoever.

MR PIGGY, there's no need to rinse (you can if you want, though), as the chlorine evaporates at room temperature.

The Mulk

Did the bleach/vinegar mix on 30x750ml swing top bottles.Didn't rinse and it worked a dream, no spoiled beer, no bad smell and no bad taste.

I have advised people on another HB site to follow suit.

Used the Tescos bleach like above and left the bottles steeping gave them a shake and then let them drain. Just finished the last of the beer last week and currently have the bottles steeping for a new one this weekend.

MR PIGGY

Lads more help please...
When i put my hydrometer in to my beer brew it is reading 1.000. Have i messed up this brew as i thought it should only get to about 1.008. if i leave it in for about 5 minutes it rises to about 1.004/5.Is it my hydrometer that is faulty, should it show the correct reading instantly. My hydrometer is a plastic one(Coopers Kit).

Please help

Cheers