Why are more Atheists not Humanists ?

Bob Cratchet

Just wondering, why are more Atheists not Humanists ?

While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes.

Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone.

Robert Ashby

Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives.

It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities.

International Humanist and Ethical Union

http://www.humanism.ie/website/about-hai

Galvasean

I think the notion of labeling yourself a Humanist is a bit pretentious TBH. It's a bit like saying, "Oh look at me, I'm a really good person!"

The Mad Hatter

It is a contradiction in terms to be both a humanist and a baby eater.

Zillah

There's a big difference between being a humanist, knowing you're a humanist, and telling someone you're a humanist.

Also, maybe the part of our brains that is cynical enough to resist the fairy tales of religion also results in humanity failing to endear itself to us.

Also, the term "humanist" is speciesist. I have more respect and affection for any dolphin on the planet than the supposed "goodness" of the human race. We're rapacious and cruel creatures, really. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm going to go eat some mercury-tainted Tuna-flesh with a fork made by children in a nightmarish Chinese factory while watching explosions on the news.

Galvasean

Zillah wrote: »

Also, the term "humanist" is speciesist. I have more respect and affection for any dolphin on the planet than the supposed "goodness" of the human race. We're rapacious and cruel creatures,

Eh, dolphins aint so nice either.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html

Zillah

Oh I know. Nature is horrible. I still prefer the dolphins.

liamw

DAMN NATURE YOU SCARY

bnt

There's humanist, and then there's Humanist. I think I am the former, but to be a Humanist I would have to sign up to the agenda of an organisation such as the Humanist Association of Ireland. They in turn take guidance from the International Humanist and Ethical Union on matters such as the Amsterdam Declaration and the UN Declaration of Human Rights. That's a lot of political baggage, which you take on if you capitalise the H and join the HAI, in my opinion.

Turtwig

To put it blunty I hate group labels. I am Malty, thank you, that is all.:)

AhSureTisGrand

Zillah wrote: »

Also, the term "humanist" is speciesist. I have more respect and affection for any dolphin on the planet than the supposed "goodness" of the human race

In my experience people only like dolphins because they remind them of humans

Galvasean

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

In my experience people only like dolphins because they remind them of humans

Well, they do murder their own kind and are partial to the odd bit of rape...

Dades

I'm kinda with Zillah on this. Don't really have enough "faith" in humanity to call myself a humanist.

Though I am reading "Great Dictators of the World", at the moment. :pac:

Bob Cratchet

Dades wrote: »

I'm kinda with Zillah on this. Don't really have enough "faith" in humanity to call myself a humanist.

Though I am reading "Great Dictators of the World", at the moment. :pac:

Intresting. Would a lot of Atheists also be Misanthropes ? i.e. have a generalised dislike, distrust, disgust, contempt or hatred of the human species or human nature.

I would be a slight misanthrope myself. In my own personal experience approx. 80% of people are human vermin once you get to know enough about them, and that percentage seems to be growing in Ireland all the time.

AhSureTisGrand

I for one am quite fond of humans. They go very well with red wine

Calibos

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

I for one am quite fond of humans. They go very well with red wine

So you're a Vegetarian Humanitarian then. I hear their latest publication is called 'How best to Serve Mankind'.

beglopty

Bob Cratchet wrote: »

Intresting. Would a lot of Atheists also be Misanthropes ? .

First thing that came to my mind reading this thread. Disappointing.

ArtSmart

Calibos wrote: »

So you're a Vegetarian Humanitarian then. I hear their latest publication is called 'How best to Serve Mankind'.

'How best to Serve Mankind Well' (Simpsons moment )


as to the Op - laziness.

rccaulfield

Because most atheists are self centered and unaltruistic the same as muslims etc etc.

sensibleken

Malty_T wrote: »

To put it blunty I hate group labels. I am Malty, thank you, that is all.:)

typical individualist

AhSureTisGrand

WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS

strobe

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS

I'm not.

Dades

Bob Cratchet wrote: »

Intresting. Would a lot of Atheists also be Misanthropes ?

I would be a slight misanthrope myself.

Misanthrope is a very strong word. Humans. Some are great, most are fine, and some are simply horrific.

If an intelligent race of aliens ever arrived here can you imagine what they'd think looking around the globe at the way we treat animals and each other?

CerebralCortex

Dades wrote: »

Misanthrope is a very strong word. Humans. Some are great, most are fine, and some are simply horrific.

If an intelligent race of aliens ever arrived here can you imagine what they'd think looking around the globe at the way we treat animals and each other?

Typical mind fallacy.

Turtwig

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Typical mind fallacy.

tl;dr care to explain it briefly?:p

liamw

Malty_T wrote: »

tl;dr care to explain it briefly?:p

It's where you project your own values etc. and assume that other people are more like you than they actually are.

CerebralCortex

Malty_T wrote: »

tl;dr care to explain it briefly?:p

The aliens may love the way we behave, they may be even worse and think we don't eat enough of our babies and want to go to war with us. In fairness to Dades I find it difficult to imagine an interstellar/gallactic race who could give two fùcks what goes on here.

Shenshen

Bob Cratchet wrote: »

Just wondering, why are more Atheists not Humanists ?

While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes.





http://www.humanism.ie/website/about-hai

To be perfectly honest, as a vegetarian this philosophy is to species-ist for my liking.

Gary L

I always thought of humanism as a philosophy of individual and collective responsibilty for civilization. That is, a model of the world with no external observer/agent to make decisions for us or take our responsibilty away.

This talk of it being some wishy washy all humans are great new age hippy ****e goes along way to explaining why its not the obvious step 2 of atheism.

Platinum2010

Personally I don't think the above site captures what it really means to be a humanist

Platinum2010

Gary L wrote: »

I always thought of humanism as a philosophy of individual and collective responsibilty for civilization. That is, a model of the world with no external observer/agent to make decisions for us or take our responsibilty away.

that's secular Humanism
Humanism itself is not much different . We aren't totally opposed to the idea of an external observer or agent .
It's just to me to be a Humanist it means to have faith and belief in the human potential to achieve

Dades

CerebralCortex wrote: »

The aliens may love the way we behave, they may be even worse and think we don't eat enough of our babies and want to go to war with us. In fairness to Dades I find it difficult to imagine an interstellar/gallactic race who could give two fùcks what goes on here.

Typical Vogon fallacy, tbh.

Tim Robbins

The Humanist society do some great work in trying to get equal rights for the non-religious in Ireland and providing services for the non-religious.

In both cases, I stress these are for the non religious not just humanists; which brings me the crux of my point. They should be called the non-religious society of Ireland as this reflect what they do and who they want to represent.

Humanism begins all sorts of slippery slops. Some people see it as something similar to a religion; others such as yourself and the Amsterdam declaration see it more as a very honourable lifestance. But then surely people who avail the humanistic services should subscribe to the humanistic ideals. A lot of these people who are availing of these services are not even members and don't even know what humanist ideals are. They really do not care about charity, the environment, rational thought, the rights of poor and all the nicey stuff you get from humanism. These begins to remind of people who only to mass at Christmas.

Basically, I see the challenge for any organisation is define itself clearly. I don't think the HAI or AI achieve this.

The majority of successful activists groups defines themselves very clearly: Amnesty International, ISPCA, etc. This is how you connect with the public. You make yourself clear and don't confuse people. Because you only a limited time to get your message across.

The other point I'd like to make is on humanistic ideals rather than religious questions. I think humanists are coming up short here. If you look at who the groups who making the most noise about the advancement of human rights, it's groups like Amnesty and Transparency International. Humanists shouldn't spend their lives arguing with Creationists they should be spending the majority of their time standing up for human rights.

Platinum2010

Tim Robbins wrote: »

A lot of these people who are availing of these services are not even members and don't even know what humanistic ideals are. They really do not care about charity, the environment, rational thought, the rights of poor and all the nicey stuff you get from humanism. These begins to remind of people who only to mass at Christmas.

.

From the sounds of it you don't even know what humanistic ideals are

Tim Robbins

Platinum2010 wrote: »

From the sounds of it you don't even know what humanistic ideals are

Eh... Can you back that up at all?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Declaration

* Humanism is ethical.
* Humanism is rational.
* Humanism supports democracy and human rights.
* Humanism insists that personal liberty must be combined with social responsibility.
* Humanism is a response to the widespread demand for an alternative to dogmatic religion.
* Humanism values artistic creativity and imagination and recognises the transforming power of art.
* Humanism is a lifestance aiming at the maximum possible fulfilment through the cultivation of ethical and creative living.

Only one has to do with non religious.

Platinum2010

You are Quoting Wikipedia . A site that can be altered and changed by anyone .Going by that sole fact I don't need to back anything up

Platinum2010

Platinum2010 wrote: »

You are Quoting Wikipedia . A site that can be altered and changed by anyone .Going by that sole fact I don't need to back anything up

If you've a problem with Wikipedia then look at the sources. The source for the above is here, which states the exact same list of ideals as what Wiki has and Tim Robbins has posted.

Turtwig

Platinum2010 wrote: »

You are Quoting Wikipedia . A site that can be altered and changed by anyone .Going by that sole fact I don't need to back anything up

This isn't strictly true anymore. Articles can be locked for editing and suggestions have to be made to change stuff. Not only that but all past versions of the article can be viewed with who edited what, when and most importantly why. The article Tim linked above can be freely edited but that's because few people have actually contributed to it.

As gvn succinctly pointed out, check your sources and check if that source is reliable. Skepticism 101.

Platinum2010

Malty_T wrote: »

Skepticism 101.

Desiderius Erasmus

Tim Robbins

I think you're trolling Platinum2010
http://www.iheu.org/adamdecl.htm

# Humanism is ethical. It affirms the worth, dignity and autonomy of the individual and the right of every human being to the greatest possible freedom compatible with the rights of others. Humanists have a duty of care to all of humanity including future generations. Humanists believe that morality is an intrinsic part of human nature based on understanding and a concern for others, needing no external sanction.

# Humanism is rational. It seeks to use science creatively, not destructively. Humanists believe that the solutions to the world's problems lie in human thought and action rather than divine intervention. Humanism advocates the application of the methods of science and free inquiry to the problems of human welfare. But Humanists also believe that the application of science and technology must be tempered by human values. Science gives us the means but human values must propose the ends.

# Humanism supports democracy and human rights. Humanism aims at the fullest possible development of every human being. It holds that democracy and human development are matters of right. The principles of democracy and human rights can be applied to many human relationships and are not restricted to methods of government.

# Humanism insists that personal liberty must be combined with social responsibility. Humanism ventures to build a world on the idea of the free person responsible to society, and recognises our dependence on and responsibility for the natural world. Humanism is undogmatic, imposing no creed upon its adherents. It is thus committed to education free from indoctrination.

# Humanism is a response to the widespread demand for an alternative to dogmatic religion. The world's major religions claim to be based on revelations fixed for all time, and many seek to impose their world-views on all of humanity. Humanism recognises that reliable knowledge of the world and ourselves arises through a continuing process. of observation, evaluation and revision.

# Humanism values artistic creativity and imagination and recognises the transforming power of art. Humanism affirms the importance of literature, music, and the visual and performing arts for personal development and fulfilment.

# Humanism is a lifestance aiming at the maximum possible fulfilment through the cultivation of ethical and creative living

Dades

Platinum2010 wrote: »

You are Quoting Wikipedia . A site that can be altered and changed by anyone .Going by that sole fact I don't need to back anything up

In that case we'll have to assume you have nothing to back you up.

A few sources have been posted. You can choose to ignore them and post none to refute them but that leaves you with zero credibility.

Platinum2010

Quoted from a book of Philosophy

What Is Humanism ?

The contemporary humanist position is that there is nothing higher than or other than human existence. This Philosophy holds that within the human person is everything needed for a good and dignified life .Humanists believe that this life is all that we have and it is important to work at being happy and fulfilled .The happiness of others is also a concern for humanists .The fundamental position of humanism is that people are rational beings .
Humanism is a way of thinking about humanity and the workd that does not speculate on the existence of a creator or any divine being .
For humanists the questions of life can be looked at with the use of reason and science .It is concerned with human needs and problems ,with no reference to a higher power ."free-thinking"

Turtwig

Quoted from a book on Philosophy.


(Not sure why the last bit is indented)

Pygmalion

Malty_T wrote: »

Quoted from a book on Philosophy.


(Not sure why the last bit is indented)

Dades is the most popular mod?

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Turtwig

Pygmalion wrote: »

Dades is the most popular mod?

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

It's not my opinion. It's a fact, backed up by footnote no.1 in the philosophy book.

Memnoch

It's regrettable that Sexism has such negative connotations. A religious/philosophical viewpoint dedicated to sex could destroy all other religions (including humanism) in a heart beat.

I believe in sexualism and my prophet is... too many beautiful women to chose from.

Dades

The day they reference me in a Philosophy book is the day I get misunderstood.

eblistic

Dades wrote: »

The day they reference me in a Philosophy book is the day I get misunderstood.

Sorry to resurrect this one, it's just the HAI meet today so it's of interest.

I wonder if many of you who are put off supporting HAI or AI, for whatever reasons, have found other avenues to actively make a positive impact in terms of improving the lot of atheists and agnostics, or any other non-catholics, in the Ireland? I'm genuinely curious. I often wish there was a coherent lobby for secularism here, with no baggage or labels associated.

Javelin77

Let's say you're dancing at masked ball 3 or 4 hundred years ago, dancing with a hot masked beauty dancing all night and believing in the hope of conquering her then when she takes off her mask to reveal herself to be your wife . Back then masked beauties were christianity now it's humanism.

Javelin77

Javelin77 wrote: »

Let's say you're dancing at masked ball 3 or 4 hundred years ago, dancing with a hot masked beauty dancing all night and believing in the hope of conquering her then when she takes off her mask to reveal herself to be your wife . Back then masked beauties were christianity now it's humanism.

what

Enkidu

Bob Cratchet wrote: »

Intresting. Would a lot of Atheists also be Misanthropes ? i.e. have a generalised dislike, distrust, disgust, contempt or hatred of the human species or human nature.

Not in my personal experience. I don't think there is any real reason for them to be more misanthropic than other groups.

Turtwig

Javelin77 wrote: »

Let's say you're dancing at masked ball 3 or 4 hundred years ago, dancing with a hot masked beauty dancing all night and believing in the hope of conquering her then when she takes off her mask to reveal herself to be your wife . Back then masked beauties were christianity now it's humanism.

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