Welfare system rewarding laziness

cakeisgood

I have a friend who was in college and worked 2 years ago while in college. She is now finished and looking for work but obviously needs something to live on in the meantime. Her welfare payment is very little because she previously worked (about 2 years + ago) Basically she has been penalised because she worked before but obviously this money is long gone. She got feck all financial help in college

On the other hand I know people who delibrately dont work for over 9 months so they can get college grants AND social welfare while in college. A lot of these people just drink this money and live the high life while other students literally are struggling to pay for their basics. Often after getting their college course paid for and getting a qualification, they go straight back on the dole and dont even look for work and nothing seems to be done or said about it. (I know a lot of these people personally) Is this system fair or do people think its unfair? Surely people who work should be rewarded? No wonder so many people are choosing to sponge off the state instead (Just to be clear I do not mean people who genuially want to work but cannot find any)

sollar

Our welfare system is far to lenient on the work shy. Anyone still on the dole after 2 should have their benefits cut. Barr a depression.

dlofnep

In fairness, most of the people like this in my year failed college. Only the people who didn't arse around got a good grade.

cakeisgood

sollar wrote: »

Our welfare system is far to lenient on the work shy. Anyone still on the dole after 2 should have their benefits cut. Barr a depression.

I dont think people genually looking for work should be cut but definately the people who dont want to work. Like there are people on the dole over 10 years. Bull****!! I spoke to a guy back in 2008 (just when the recession began) who said he 'couldnt' get a job for 5 years. Yeah right. What sickens me then is these people get opportunities thrown at them (courses paid for while still getting welfare), whereas the hard working people who want to further themselves have to do it out of their own pocket.

ligertigon

Unfortunately

if you feed the monster, it gets bigger. I earn and pay rent, my neighbours dont.

For example, why are there adds on TV telling people to remember condoms/ pregnancy protection? Think about it....
Its, because its a career!!

The only reason there is dole, is because Garda/welfare recepient ratio is too low. And, the cash injection supports the economy.
Now, do gooders comment please

thebman

dlofnep wrote: »

In fairness, most of the people like this in my year failed college. Only the people who didn't arse around got a good grade.

Not really the point though, they still get about a year or two of getting drunk at the taxpayers expense.

If they don't pass the course, they should be libel for the money IMO. Would soon sort the men from the boys/women from the girls.

Personally I agree completely that the system needs reform.

cakeisgood

thebman wrote: »

Not really the point though, they still get about a year or two of getting drunk at the taxpayers expense.

If they don't pass the course, they should be libel for the money IMO. Would soon sort the men from the boys/women from the girls.

Personally I agree completely that the system needs reform.

I agree 100% with this. I think also even if they pass the course they should be MADE look for a job and have to pay the money back if they refuse to work. A lot of these welfare-grabbing students were only doing the course for 'interest', not to find work. Why should taxpayers pay to fund their 'interest'. I myself actually went to college to get a job and I struggled. Didnt get a cent from the welfare and if I had I certainly would not have been drinking it.

The problem is there is too much sense of entitlement in this country. "I deserve to go to college cos I want to and therefore the state should pay every cent for it and also give me rent allowance etc" Eh no, you do not, get off your backside, work up some money to support yourself THEN go to college

Prakari

I think it’s only fair to let some of those hardworking taxpayers go on welfare for a decade or so and live the easy life. This would then create vacancies which would allow those lazy welfare recipients to be forced into the harsh world of employment.

Icepick

Rent allowance is the worst part of it.

johnnyskeleton

ligertigon wrote: »

The only reason there is dole, is because Garda/welfare recepient ratio is too low. And, the cash injection supports the economy.
Now, do gooders comment please

That really is an unhelpful comment.

The social welfare bill is too big at present, there is much abuse and waste in the system, most people can think of examples where people on the dole are better off than people working and the problems caused by the welfare trap are well documented.

But that is not a reason, as some people will suggest, to scrap the social welfare system entirely. The reason we have social welfare is because in any economy, no matter how well run, there will always be people who are disabled, infirm, poorly educated/qualified, between jobs and generally unable to work at present. Social welfare is designed to provide a safety net to them so that they don't starve during this period.

The problem is that the government should have been anticipating the possibility of a downturn with increased claims and, instead of giving the current welfare recipients of 2000-2006 increases every year on their basic payments, they should have been putting aside the surplus money in anticipation of future claims and to partially finance the current claims through interest etc. There was no objective reason for them to increase the rates other than that they had the money and wanted to spend it. Now, they have no reserves and have committed to unsustainably high payments. But, in an ideal world, we would be looking at the social welfare system with praise for the forsight of the politicians who saved up a pool of resources to sustain people through a recession.

bryaner

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That really is an unhelpful comment.

The social welfare bill is too big at present, there is much abuse and waste in the system, most people can think of examples where people on the dole are better off than people working and the problems caused by the welfare trap are well documented.

But that is not a reason, as some people will suggest, to scrap the social welfare system entirely. The reason we have social welfare is because in any economy, no matter how well run, there will always be people who are disabled, infirm, poorly educated/qualified, between jobs and generally unable to work at present. Social welfare is designed to provide a safety net to them so that they don't starve during this period.

The problem is that the government should have been anticipating the possibility of a downturn with increased claims and, instead of giving the current welfare recipients of 2000-2006 increases every year on their basic payments, they should have been putting aside the surplus money in anticipation of future claims and to partially finance the current claims through interest etc. There was no objective reason for them to increase the rates other than that they had the money and wanted to spend it. Now, they have no reserves and have committed to unsustainably high payments. But, in an ideal world, we would be looking at the social welfare system with praise for the forsight of the politicians who saved up a pool of resources to sustain people through a recession.

Well said if only you were in government we wouldn't be in this sh!t..

johnnyskeleton

bryaner wrote: »

Well said if only you were in government we wouldn't be in this sh!t..

Believe me, you'd be much worse off...

bryaner

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Believe me, you'd be much worse off...

Lol not really I got laid off in 2008 after 20 years in the one job, now getting €93 a week on the social and up to me tits in debt..

Faith+1

The unmarried mothers allowance is another benefit that pi**es me off. I work hard enough without having to pay to keep children that douchbag fathers can't look after. The government practically encourages teenage pregnancy with all the benefits available to them. F*ck this country at times.

Tora Bora

All SW recipients should have to turn up day one in the SW office with a sweeping brush and a shovel.
They should ALL be out sweeping the streets and maintaining the roads.
Cleaning graffiti off public buildings.
Planting shrubs on public thoroughfares.

There should be nothing for nothing.

Will_H

Tora Bora wrote: »

All SW recipients should have to turn up day one in the SW office with a sweeping brush and a shovel.
They should ALL be out sweeping the streets and maintaining the roads.
Cleaning graffiti off public buildings.
Planting shrubs on public thoroughfares.

There should be nothing for nothing.

So are you saying that bryaner, who paid his taxes for 20 years should be out sweeping the streets...!!?? Get real! :rolleyes:

libra02

Will_H wrote: »

So are you saying that bryaner, who paid his taxes for 20 years should be out sweeping the streets...!!?? Get real! :rolleyes:

Well said.

Anyway what about the council workers paid to these jobs. Should they be then kept employed and do nothing or left go - thus leading to more people claiming benefits.

professore

libra02 wrote: »

Well said.

Anyway what about the council workers paid to these jobs. Should they be then kept employed and do nothing or left go - thus leading to more people claiming benefits.

All SW recipients should have to turn up day one in the SW office with a sweeping brush and a shovel.
They should ALL be out sweeping the streets and maintaining the roads.
Cleaning graffiti off public buildings.
Planting shrubs on public thoroughfares.

There should be nothing for nothing.

I think anyone who is on the means tested payment (i.e. after 12ish months of dole) should be up for these and other community jobs, as it is a reasonable assumption that if you haven't found work after 12 months your chances thereafter are dramatically reduced. Looking at the original quote, NONE of the items outlined by Tora Bora are done by the council workers. There are lots of other tasks too like helping out in community centres etc.

If you are a genuine hard worker you will welcome the opportunity to get out of the house, meet people, network etc.

Do people really think it's justifiable to claim benefits for years and do nothing at all for them?

Mr McBoatface

Tora Bora wrote: »

All SW recipients should have to turn up day one in the SW office with a sweeping brush and a shovel.

Does that apply to the wheel chair bound and other disabled SW recipients and the carers who save the state a fortune by looking after for the sick and elderly at home ?

Tora Bora wrote: »

They should ALL be out sweeping the streets and maintaining the roads.
Cleaning graffiti off public buildings.
Planting shrubs on public thoroughfares.

So how the hell are they expected to find work while doing this. The WPP slave labour scheme is being abused and is taking paid jobs out the jobs market so I suppose this proposal of yours is just an extension of that.

Tora Bora wrote: »

There should be nothing for nothing.

Well I pay PRSI and have done all my adult life so as far as I'm concerned should I need SW assistance I've already paid up front.

There is undoubtedly abuse in the SW but don't paint everybody on it with the same brush, remember that most people on SW worked when there was work available. These people and anybody who contributes to the state (ie carers) should not be painted with the same brush as the SW wasters we all know exist. I've said it before and will say it again - if you are capable of working and never contributed to society you should not receive SW, it should be a safety net and not a way of life.

If the government wanted to cut the SW bill tomorrow the first thing they should stop is all rent allowance, nationwide there is a pool of housing stock owned by councils and NAMA not being used for anything. As a emergency step for the next 5 to 10 years these house/apartments should be used to house those receiving rent allowance. The rent allowance is also keeping the cost of rent for everybody else in the country at a artificially high level... it needs to be done away with. I agree with the previous posters comments on single mothers and the benefits they receive. IMO it's more a case of dead beat mothers than douchbag dads being the problem.

It's also worth pointing out that there many employed people in this country receiving massive amount of state aid via mortgage interest relief. This state aid should be eliminated for all new mortgages and current mortgage where the person earns a 250K plus salary.

SupaNova

I have a workshy cousin who shockingly is changing his ways and has been working in a garage free of charge for 6 months in the hope of an apprenticeship, if that's not bad enough if he gets offered an apprenticeship which he has been told he will, he will earn less roughly 180 a week as a first year apprentice while working whilst on the dole he gets 188. So in that scenario our welfare system is rewarding laziness. The potential of a decent wage when qualified made it worth it for him, but i am sure the thought of being a first year apprentice getting less than dole is enough to stop some people.

feicim

sollar wrote: »

Our welfare system is far to lenient on the work shy. Anyone still on the dole after 2 should have their benefits cut. Barr a depression.

After 2 what? years? months? o'clock?

I have to laugh - this thread topic repeats itself over and over again.

Being on the dole is hardly laziness (for most) - I don't know what rock you have been living under - but there aren't 450,000 unfilled jobs in Ireland that people are avoiding due to laziness.

But hey... whatever.

Lets just call them lazy. Its much easier to hate/resent the unemployed if you dehumanise them all a bit by labeling them all "lazy" or "work-shy".

Mr McBoatface

professore wrote: »

I think anyone who is on the means tested payment (i.e. after 12ish months of dole) should be up for these and other community jobs,

I actually agree with CE schemes (if run correctly), helping the community over some WPP slave labour employer is great idea. CE schemes which are limited to 20 hours per week and are a great way to keep your self in a routine and allow people to continue to look for work. However most people I know who are on SW jobseekers for 12 months or so are not eligible for CE schemes because they are not 18 year old travelers, just release from prison, junkies, refugees, or they are 100% physically capable of actually doing work. They are Irish (but not a racial minority), under the age of 35, have worked all their lives( up until very 12-18 months ago), they've no criminal records, are fit for work and have loads of work experience/knowledge the could use to improve their community, obviously as such don't qualify for CE part time work:mad:.

professore wrote: »

as it is a reasonable assumption that if you haven't found work after 12 months your chances thereafter are dramatically reduced

That old chestnut is N/A now, especially if you live outside of a major center of population.

professore wrote: »

Looking at the original quote, NONE of the items outlined by Tora Bora are done by the council workers. There are lots of other tasks too like helping out in community centres etc.

Tora Bora said ALL SW recipients should clean the streets etc ... not all SW recipients are unemployed and actually able to do work, disabled people, carers are SW recipients too. Helping the community is great and many SW recipients receiving unemployment benefit/allowance would gladly help out their communities today but the can't because the current system doesn't allow this to happen. According to the department of SW you have to be looking for work, if you are preforming volunteer work you are not looking for work so no payment.

professore wrote: »

If you are a genuine hard worker you will welcome the opportunity to get out of the house, meet people, network etc.

I agree. IMO it's a shame the current system doesn't allow or reward community based schemes for maybe the most affected group of people on SW jobseekers.

Will_H

SupaNova wrote: »

The potential of a decent wage when qualified made it worth it for him, but i am sure the thought of being a first year apprentice getting less than dole is enough to stop some people.

And that's the whole crux of the matter - for some people, they want to better themselves, have a sense of self-worth & self-belief. Others just couldn't give a toss and simply want to screw the system.

And as long as they are able [allowed!] to get away with it, they will take the 'easy' money - Dole, medical card, children's allowance, rent allowance, unmarried mothers allowance, fuel allowance etc.

It's the government who are not tackling the problem correctly. IMO, they seem to tar everyone getting SW with the same brush. (No pun intended - I try not to make sweeping statements!)

Nightwish

I do feel desperately sorry for those who have genuinely lost jobs because of the recession and have to make severe cutbacks, pay mortgage etc with welfare. I do understand that there are those who make a career of getting as much as possible from the state, while doing as little as possible.

I see this before my very eyes at the moment. I live with someone who walked out of a job, just because she didn't like it. Lied to get the dole straight away, as I think I'm right in saying you cannot claim for a few months if you leave a job of your own accord. She has gotten rent allowance and a medical card too. Along with claiming sick benefit too, which I'm not sure is legal while on the dole. She has no intention of getting another job, as she is very happy to stay in bed until lunchtime every day. It really irritates me to see her being so bone idle lazy, and then going out 3 nights a week. Getting 4 or 5 take aways a week too. I cant afford any of that and I work full time! She is lucky in that she has no loans but she does have a massive overdraft on account of her partying lifestyle, which she has buried her head in the sand about.

There needs to be more check ups to ensure claimants are genuine, but as I said, I really do feel for those who are genuine, because I cannot begin to fathom how I'd pay my loans if I wasnt working.

Will_H

Nightwish wrote: »

Lied to get the dole straight away

It really irritates me to see her being so bone idle lazy, and then going out 3 nights a week.

There needs to be more check ups to ensure claimants are genuine

How much does it irritate you....??? Seriously.....!?

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

1,000 social welfare fraud tip-offs a month
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfojaukfeymh/rss2/

mm_surf

feicim wrote: »

After 2 what? years? months? o'clock?

I have to laugh - this thread topic repeats itself over and over again.

Being on the dole is hardly laziness (for most) - I don't know what rock you have been living under - but there aren't 450,000 unfilled jobs in Ireland that people are avoiding due to laziness.

But hey... whatever.

Lets just call them lazy. Its much easier to hate/resent the unemployed if you dehumanise them all a bit by labeling them all "lazy" or "work-shy".

Exactly. The people who don't deserve the dole are those who are not looking for work, not those who haven't found work.

If someone isn't looking for work they do not qualify for the dole. Simple as. All that's required is for the SW officers that see these people (myself included) is to look for evidence of job hunting. No evidence, no dole.

This isn't a problem that requires a complicated solution.

M.

RichardAnd

Tora Bora wrote: »

All SW recipients should have to turn up day one in the SW office with a sweeping brush and a shovel.
They should ALL be out sweeping the streets and maintaining the roads.
Cleaning graffiti off public buildings.
Planting shrubs on public thoroughfares.

There should be nothing for nothing.

You're either some total misanthropist or you're some teenager with a serious shortage of life experience. Either way, please grow up.

mistermouse

The subsidies this country gave to single parents were crazy, especially housing that they could end up owning for a pittance.

But so too is the wages we have paid inept politicians and many, not all but many in the public sector.

Just like self employed people can be audited going back years, so should public sector performance and pay and lone parents. If a mortgage payer can now find themselves on the bring of re-possession why is it that people who got houses handed to them not be assessed again for example.

Many on the dole etc have applied for jobs, have been made prove they did, there just aren't jobs in the numbers we need, but the state needs to look at how it dished out money to people left right and centre, many of whom in the Public Sector and on benefits have no fear of back dated audits.

NIMAN

I know a Chinese girl with 4 jobs. Yes 4 jobs.

Says it all. Perhaps its a work ethic thing?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

giant_midget

The government needs to be looking more at the long term unemployed. Anyone that has been unemployed since before 2006 should have weekly meeting with SW to prove they are actively looking for work. Losers like this really piss me off..It's like anything, cut out the deadwood from society.

Long term unemployed people (not taking about 2007-2011) before that, These people are as bad as rats in my eyes. They should not be getting anything from our government. If this was america they would be left to starve and freeze to death...rightly so...losers.

Will_H

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You're taking the pi$$ now aren't you?!? There was 3.5%-5% unemployment in the country then. Am I right in understanding that what you're saying is, the reason the dole is so high now is because the govt bought the 3.5%-5% of unemployed votes (assuming all 150,000 or so voted!) by increasing the welfare allowances!!

Apart from the genuine cases on SW allowances, my gut is telling me the long term [I've no interest in getting a job cos I get so much out of the system] unemployed and the fraud claimants don't really vote.

Permabear wrote: »

It's really that simple.

Computer says.......No!

cookie82

i worked for 9 years straight out of school. one job was for 2 years the other for 7 years. last year the shop i worked in closed down so i was made redundant. i am married live with my hubby and 2 kids have my mortgage both myself and my hubby were out of work last year thankfully he found work. i was given my stamps for 10 months i no longer receive any aid of any kind other than my children's allowance. i am not lazy so i applied for the c.c scheme but was told i was ineligible for it. i asked fas if i could do a course in sept on the beauty evening course and they told me i will have to pay €250 for it because im not on social welfare. i just don't get it how people stay on the dole for so long??? i was lucky to get my stamps for the 10 months im can complain that i no longer get a payment as i understand that the country is up the creek but i think fas should review their course conditions as it seems a bit unfair.

Drumpot

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Welfare, state pensions, public service . . All of these sections of society were bought during the boom, but none of them are prepared to allow the proper adjustments required to reel in our spending . . .

Next to the banking legacy, the worst thing our failed government have left us looking after!

Incidentally, it is quite obvious that there are many youngsters/ill advised who havent a clue about life or why we have a welfare system. Hearing mummy and daddy moan about things you dont understand doesnt give you the education to engage in your own ill informed bitching online.

1. All Welfare recipients are lazy.
2. All public servants are lazy.
3. All politicians are corrupt.
4. Everybody in the private sector made loads of dosh in the boom and wouldnt take a public service job.

If you subscribe to any of the above statements, then you are ill advised and need to stop being so narrow minded in how you view our country. Its these kind of one sided views that has us in this mess. Jumping on populist phrases that simply allow people to throw mud at each other at the expense of objective debate. Unfortunatley, it seems to be a feature thats all to often on these forums.

Drumpot

Will_H wrote: »

You're taking the pi$$ now aren't you?!? There was 3.5%-5% unemployment in the country then. Am I right in understanding that what you're saying is, the reason the dole is so high now is because the govt bought the 3.5%-5% of unemployed votes (assuming all 150,000 or so voted!) by increasing the welfare allowances!!

Apart from the genuine cases on SW allowances, my gut is telling me the long term [I've no interest in getting a job cos I get so much out of the system] unemployed and the fraud claimants don't really vote.
!

If you are raising welfare, then other parties cannot promise anything to that 3%-5% that you havent already given them. While the going is good, might aswell buy off all parties and keep writing the cheques to make sure nobody else does.

I dont think this was the only reason welfare was increased , but if FF hadnt done that, you would of had FG/Lab promise these increases that might just of pushed these creatures welfare to the polls. If there is one thing we learned from the Bertie era, its that he pulled out his chequebook for everything.

Will_H

mm_surf wrote: »

Exactly. The people who don't deserve the dole are those who are not looking for work, not those who haven't found work.

+1

mm_surf wrote: »

All that's required is for the SW officers..........to look for evidence of job hunting. No evidence, no dole.

AND

giant_midget wrote: »

Anyone that has been unemployed since before 2006 should have weekly meeting with SW to prove they are actively looking for work.

+1.

Oh, wait, hang on a minute - isn't that what FAS do?! (Although, it's not a weekly/monthly thing.)

motherriley

cookie82 wrote: »

i worked for 9 years straight out of school. one job was for 2 years the other for 7 years. last year the shop i worked in closed down so i was made redundant. i am married live with my hubby and 2 kids have my mortgage both myself and my hubby were out of work last year thankfully he found work. i was given my stamps for 10 months i no longer receive any aid of any kind other than my children's allowance. i am not lazy so i applied for the c.c scheme but was told i was ineligible for it. i asked fas if i could do a course in sept on the beauty evening course and they told me i will have to pay €250 for it because im not on social welfare. i just don't get it how people stay on the dole for so long??? i was lucky to get my stamps for the 10 months im can complain that i no longer get a payment as i understand that the country is up the creek but i think fas should review their course conditions as it seems a bit unfair.

I expect the reason why people stay on the dole so long is because they maybe doing some work and getting paid cash for it. No tax payable for the person to pay and this works OK for the person employing them on the black market as well.

There is a programm on TV bb2 last night a person was running business and built up a property empire while claming benefits.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xggvx

mm_surf

Will_H wrote: »

Oh, wait, hang on a minute - isn't that what FAS do?! (Although, it's not a weekly/monthly thing.)

Not FAS, but the Social Welfare Officers.

Well, they are supposed to, but they don't. In 12 months I haven't been asked by a single SW Officer for any evidence of job hunting. In actual fact, job hunting wasn't even mentioned. Just sign the card.

It is crazy that this goes on. People go on about the dole being too much, and it should be cut to encourage people off it. Cut it entirely for those not eligible for it! It's called "jobseekers" allowance / benefit.

Yes, there are inherently unemployable people out there that are on the dole, those that are employable who can't get work but are looking for it, and those who aren't looking for work. One of these groups are not entitled to the dole - but yet nothing is done about it.

Want savings on the SW bill? Stop giving it to people who don't qualify. This should have been done during the boom, should be done now, and should be done in the future.

M.

MOSSAD

cakeisgood wrote: »

I dont think people genually looking for work should be cut but definately the people who dont want to work. Like there are people on the dole over 10 years. Bull****!! I spoke to a guy back in 2008 (just when the recession began) who said he 'couldnt' get a job for 5 years. Yeah right. What sickens me then is these people get opportunities thrown at them (courses paid for while still getting welfare), whereas the hard working people who want to further themselves have to do it out of their own pocket.

During the boom people came from the armpit of every country to work here-they were illegal, didn't look like us, didn't speak english, but they WORKED, usually several jobs and long hours. It's the lazy SOBS of long term unemployed who would not work or do the work these people did and continue to do that I want to see thrown off the welfare. rolls If you're not willing to work, you can't be that hungry:mad:

Dannyboy83

THOUSANDS of prisoners have been illegally claiming millions of euro in social welfare because their benefits are not automatically cut off when they are sent to jail.


An Irish Independent investigation reveals that almost 2,000 prisoners managed to fraudulently claim welfare payments last year while they were in jail -- or even on the run.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jail-scam-prisoners-claiming-welfare-while-behind-bars-2801166.html

If you knew the hell myself and my partner went thru while she was unemployed and could never get any social assistance
.
.
.
and this is how they repay us.


The Irish Department of Social Welfare is a fcuking jokeshop.
They make Fas look sophisticated.

Will_H

Drumpot wrote: »

If you are raising welfare, then other parties cannot promise anything to that 3%-5% that you havent already given them. While the going is good, might aswell buy off all parties and keep writing the cheques to make sure nobody else does.

Agreed - I'm not disputing that fact Drumpot......

Drumpot wrote: »

I dont think this was the only reason welfare was increased

THAT is what I was getting at...!

Drumpot wrote: »

If there is one thing we learned from the Bertie era, its that he pulled out his chequebook for everything.

That's not true either - don't you remember - according to Bertie, he didn't have a bank account! (And it was OUR chequebook!)

JohnMarston

I agree that those who are not seeking work, long-term unemployed, turning it into a career, should be cut or made do public-service jobs for their dole unless of course they have a good reason why they can't.

However those who have been actively seeking work and have the evidence to prove they have, should not be cut.

All that needs to be done is have more regular interviews with the jobseekers, have them show their proof, and let that be it. Every 3 months at least.

Jobseekers are not lazy, and find no joy in recieving money they didn't earn (at least the honest ones) and seek to return to work, but they need that money to live on for the time being.

My two cents anyway.

mm_surf

JohnMarston wrote: »

I agree that those who are not seeking work, long-term unemployed, turning it into a career, should be cut or made do public-service jobs for their dole unless of course they have a good reason why they can't.

Unfortunately public service / community jobs don't work too well.The amount of back injuries / slips & trips for this type of work is off the scale for some reason . This was the exact reason a lot of CE schemes in my home county were cancelled.

JohnMarston wrote: »

All that needs to be done is have more regular interviews with the jobseekers, have them show their proof, and let that be it. Every 3 months at least.

How about every month - when they sign on? A simple 5 second question "what have you been doing to secure work?". If a satisfactory answer isn't given, then a follow-up interview is scheduled with an Officer.

As the meerkat fella says, "Simples!"

M.

Joey the lips

I do a lot of vol work in the community. I can guarantee you out of 10 people long term welfare there is about 2 who could not be bothered.

The situation is not as transparent as you think. The problem with those who dont want to do anything they seem to be corraled into the same area by the welfare and council so this creates more problems which leads to a situation where generations are carried on.

Crazy Horse 6

Faith+1 wrote: »

The unmarried mothers allowance is another benefit that pi**es me off. I work hard enough without having to pay to keep children that douchbag fathers can't look after. The government practically encourages teenage pregnancy with all the benefits available to them. F*ck this country at times.

So the douchbag fathers do a runner leaving the women to fend for herself without him and a kid to raise and look after, and you want to do what with these women? Throw them out on the street maybe selling their body so they can feed their kids, or maybe the state should be putting more effort into chasing down these douchbag dads who have done a runner and left them in this way.

JohnMarston

mm_surf wrote: »

How about every month - when they sign on? A simple 5 second question "what have you been doing to secure work?". If a satisfactory answer isn't given, then a follow-up interview is scheduled with an Officer.

I say every 3 months because of the volume of claimants in any one area. There wouldn't be enough manpower to cover every single jobseeker every month.
Besides i was only ever asked once to attend one of those interviews, and it was six months into my claim. Never asked again.

Crazy Horse 6

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

So the douchbag fathers do a runner leaving the women to fend for herself without him and a kid to raise and look after, and you want to do what with these women? Throw them out on the street maybe selling their body so they can feed their kids, or maybe the state should be putting more effort into chasing down these douchbag dads who have done a runner and left them in this way.

I think you've kind of answered your own question there
The number of stories about "he hasn't paid maintenance in x months and the courts can't/won't do anything..."

Will_H

mm_surf wrote: »

Not FAS, but the Social Welfare Officers.

Well, they are supposed to, but they don't. In 12 months I haven't been asked by a single SW Officer for any evidence of job hunting. In actual fact, job hunting wasn't even mentioned. Just sign the card.

The kind of do it in conjunction with FÁS, but don't enforce it properly IMO.

The SW office will ask you to come in soon after your 12 months is up and to bring proof of 'job seeking', as you will move from JB to JA (and be means tested for it). You'll also probably get a letter telling you to attend your local FAS office for 'interview' a couple of months after that.

BTW, if you're paying a mortgage, you should also get in touch with your local HSE office.

jmayo

bryaner wrote: »

Lol not really I got laid off in 2008 after 20 years in the one job, now getting €93 a week on the social and up to me tits in debt..

I have no problem with you getting welfare as you were a worker who lost their job due to recession/downturn.
I have no problem with someone who acts as a carer for elderly relative or disabled child/adult getting welfare.
They are in fact saving the state money.
I have no problem with disabled or sick getting welfare.

But I do have a major problem with the ones who don't fall into above categories, i.e. the long term unemployed pre 2007.
We had so much of a labour shortage that we were importing workers form Eu accession states, South America, Asia, etc.
What was stopping our so called disadvantaged from taking up cleaning jobs that were being filled, from personal experience, by Poles, Ecuadorians, Chinese, Indians, Mongolian workers ?

Of course these jobs were beneath them.
Besides some of them earned more on the dole while they could spend their time watching sky, involved in crime, going to the bookies and complainin about all the foreigners coming in taking their jobs. :mad:

Will_H wrote: »

You're taking the pi$$ now aren't you?!? There was 3.5%-5% unemployment in the country then. Am I right in understanding that what you're saying is, the reason the dole is so high now is because the govt bought the 3.5%-5% of unemployed votes (assuming all 150,000 or so voted!) by increasing the welfare allowances!!

The government did indeed pamper the so called long term unemployed.
At the very time we had so called full employment, with thousands of foreign workers coming in, they gave welfare increases to those who had no excuse why they couldn't find a bloody job.

Remember how bertie shipped mcgreevey to Brussels and invited that priest to their get together in Cork so that the party would be more socially aware ?

The ff party did indeed up welfare rates when they should have been doing the opposite.
They were feeding out the cr** that the wealth should be spread to all and those unfortunate should not be left behind.
Well in my mind those unfortunate are the sick, the disabled, the carers and definetly not the lazy or criminal.

mm_surf

Will_H wrote: »

The kind of do it in conjunction with FÁS, but don't enforce it properly IMO.

The SW office will ask you to come in soon after your 12 months is up and to bring proof of 'job seeking', as you will move from JB to JA (and be means tested for it). You'll also probably get a letter telling you to attend your local FAS office for 'interview' a couple of months after that.

BTW, if you're paying a mortgage, you should also get in touch with your local HSE office.

Oh, I know that's what's supposed to happen.

But with all due respect, it doesn't.

Didn't happen in my case, nor in the cases of anyone I talked to (a few hundred of us were made redundant at the same time)

No queries during my 12 months of JSB. Took them 4 months to do teh means test. Only time I was asked about job hunting was during my interview with the HSE for Supplementary Welfare.

I think this is an area that could be significantly improved, using existing resources, for little to no cost.

M.

libra02

Problem is what would the SW take as proof that you are actively job seeking.

You are lucky to get a reply either by mail or a letter from any company you sent a CV too, never mind say getting an interview.

So I would have my cover letters all typed out and saved on my PC which I could provide as proof and I am being honest.

What is to stop people just picking any couple of jobs off paper/ website, pretending to apply by just throwing a letter together and using this as proof.
And no doubt these people who do not want to work will try every trick in book to avoid benefits being cut etc.

Also and no offence to anyone here but when I had to register with FAS and went for the standard interview I was told they could do nothing for me as the qualifications I already posessd made me over qualified for most of their courses so it be of no benefit to me.