Weight loss help - It's just not that easy

garlicmayo

So I'm 30.. I'm 5'8" and currently weigh 14 stone.

Yes I am over weight. And I am not afraid to admit it.

Yes I have put on a stone since last September.

Yes I exercise, quite a lot and too a high intensity.

NO I cannot seem to loose any weight.

OK, so my diet isn't the most balanced or most nutritious but it is not the worst either. I just can't seem to loose any weight even though I play hockey at a fairly high level, train at least twice a week with matches also on top of that, plus I do further exercise with bootcamp, walking, tag rugby and various other activities?

How on earth have I put on a stone? And how on earth can I lose it plus some more?

Suggestions on a postcard to a distraught 30 year old wanting to lose weight.

g'em

garlicmayo I've given you your own thread for your query, the Safefood thread is for feedback about the campaign

Sangre

The answer is in your username. You can't overtrain a terrible diet if you're looking to shed the pounds.

Post up an honest and typical day's diet. Don't leave anything out.

squod

Exercise bike in front of the TV? AFAIK longer periods of cardio at a lower intensity > (gretaer than) short bursts.

Hanley

The actual fat burn from exercise if you're eating large amounts of startchy carbs and sugar will be minimal - that's going to be your body's preferential source of energy so you won't use fat (which is basically just stored energy).

All the exercise in the world won't change that. It's very difficult to create a sufficient enough calorie deficit from exercise to drive fat loss.

Losing fat is all about eating less calories than you expend during the day. Changing your diet to allow for that is the easiest method.

Dieting's simple - eat less, move more. But it's not 'easy'.

It's impossible to advise without seeing what you're eating on a regular day. So give us a sample week day, and a sample weekend. Try to include rough portion sizes and any snacks/drinks too.

garlicmayo

HA!! I do like garlicmayo though I am not addicted to it!!

Typical day would consist of:

Breakfast:
3 x Weetabix with low fat milk and honey

Lunch:
Toast with tomato, basil and extra virgin olive oil
or
Pitta bread with ham, cheese and lettuce or just ham and lettuce
or
Beans on toast
or
Eddie rockets or similar (once a week)

Dinner:
Scrambled eggs on toast or Ryvita
or
Steak/Lamb Chops, carrots and brocolli
or
Spaghetti Bologneise

Sometimes will have a bar of chocolate or a few biccies...!!

garlicmayo

squod wrote: »

Exercise bike in front of the TV? AFAIK longer periods of cardio at a lower intensity > (gretaer than) short bursts.

I play hockey at quite a high level so fitness is a big part of that... I train for at least 2 hours twice a week, plus play matches on Saturdays,also play soccer and participate in other fitness things such as bootcamp???

garlicmayo

Thanks to anyone replying, I appreciate your comment and help!!

Hanley

garlicmayo wrote: »

I play hockey at quite a high level so fitness is a big part of that... I train for at least 2 hours twice a week, plus play matches on Saturdays,also play soccer and participate in other fitness things such as bootcamp???

That should probably tell you that more exercise is not the key for you so

And you can be fit and still be overweight...

cookie82

have you had your bloods checked recently just on case your thyroid is giving any problems. this can lead to weight gain? I did weight watchers after i had my baby its hard going but it did work for me however i know its not for everyone

squod

garlicmayo wrote: »

I play hockey at quite a high level so fitness is a big part of that... I train for at least 2 hours twice a week, plus play matches on Saturdays,also play soccer and participate in other fitness things such as bootcamp???

Mostly burst, stops and starts like. Between seasons there's probably little going on. You'll only know what works for you when you give it a go. Donedeal.ie or gumtree (freebies) for a low cost exercise bike.



This guy used to consume many more calories than I could get down me yet he could weigh in at eight stone.

ferike1

I train a lot too and eat healthy. The only time I lose weight was when I ate less. Its all about diet. There is a level of maintenance calories for your weight and you need to eat below that to lose weight. Easy

garlicmayo

I'll look into my diet further and also my thyroids and see if they can help...

Appreciate all responses!!

Hopefully I'll be a lean, mean fighting machine before I know it!!

gavtron

squod wrote: »

This guy used to consume many more calories than I could get down me yet he could weigh in at eight stone.

Are/were you a pro cyclist as well?

Hanley

squod wrote: »

Mostly burst, stops and starts like. Between seasons there's probably little going on. You'll only know what works for you when you give it a go. Donedeal.ie or gumtree (freebies) for a low cost exercise bike.



This guy used to consume many more calories than I could get down me yet he could weigh in at eight stone.

Lets not go crazy here… how many hours a day did Pantani train for? Elite athletes burn far more calories at a given heart rate than average folks do, and they can sustain the effort for longer.

It’s like saying ‘go for a swim’ cos Phelps eats 12,000kcals a day and is as lean as anything.

Pantani’s riding what, 4-6 hours a day 6 days a week maybe? There’s no way an average person has the time or work capacity to do that. It’s especially not relevant given GarlicMayo’s case as he seems to be exercising quite a bit already and not making any progress. Some simple refinements to his diet, an increase in protein, decrease in carbs and increase in healthy fats would on top of the high level of work he’s already doing would put him in a great position for weight loss.

Lyle McDonald has an INCREDIBLY interesting series of articles called ‘Training the obese beginner’ - the 6 parts are almost long enough to make an ebook, but I recommend everyone takes an hour or two to read them. The primary points he makes are:

1) You don’t want to do something to discourage the person as they start (ie work them too hard and have them quit)

2) In obese and over weight people their metabolic pathways are so f*cked from eating a high level of process carbs and sugar that they just aren’t capable of burning fat effectively

3) HIIT, complicated weight programs and all that jazz we love on here isn’t needed if you’re dialing in diet and getting frequent moderate intensity work in.

A lot of what he says in the articles are fairly closely aligned with what Sisson says in The Primal Blueprint. They’re just not as fanatical or dogmatic. If I get time over the weekend I’ll re-read them all and try to put them in a succinct set of bullet points.

Here’s a link to the first part for anyone who wants to read - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/training-the-obese-beginner.html

squod

gavtron wrote: »

Are/were you a pro cyclist as well?

Very casual/commuter. Coughing up a lung before work/ on a Saturday morning became tiresome. Alergies, asthma etc.

eyescreamcone

You need to exercise sensibly also
18 months ago I couldn't run for 20 mins at 10 k/hr

I now run 4 x 1hr (11ks) per week.
Nothing too special but boy does it burn the cals.

I used a heart rate monitor to see when I was going too hard, then I walked until the heart rate dropped down before I started running again.
Built this up until I now run for an hour without too much effort.

Might do a half marathon soon
I'm 43 and am down from 15-2 to 13-7.

Lost 23 lbs with very limited diet change.

gavtron

squod wrote: »

Very casual/commuter. Coughing up a lung before work/ on a Saturday morning became tiresome. Alergies, asthma etc.

Yeah, well like Hanley said, Pantani was a pro athlete training and racing like 4-6 hours per day so he'd need a butt load of calories to keep going, you probably don't.
Different people, different....needs!

VonLuck

My advice would be to do HIIT. High intensity interval training. Doing about 25 minutes of doing fast paced exercise for a minute, then light exercise for a minute. Burns more fat than just plain exercising for 25 minutes.

Also weight training is great for losing weight. The more muscle you have the more calories you need to burn to keep the muscle. So you burn calories while doing weights and by building muscle you also burn more calories even when doing nothing. Win win!

Hanley

VonLuck wrote: »

My advice would be to do HIIT. High intensity interval training. Doing about 25 minutes of doing fast paced exercise for a minute, then light exercise for a minute. Burns more fat than just plain exercising for 25 minutes.

Also weight training is great for losing weight. The more muscle you have the more calories you need to burn to keep the muscle. So you burn calories while doing weights and by building muscle you also burn more calories even when doing nothing. Win win!

In isolation, that might be good advice depending upon who it's given to, but in the OPs case, who by their own admission is already doing quite a bit of high volume work, do you still consider it appropriate?

TommyKnocker

garlicmayo wrote: »

HA!! I do like garlicmayo though I am not addicted to it!!

Typical day would consist of:

Breakfast:
3 x Weetabix with low fat milk and honey

Lunch:
Toast with tomato, basil and extra virgin olive oil
or
Pitta bread with ham, cheese and lettuce or just ham and lettuce
or
Beans on toast
or
Eddie rockets or similar (once a week)

Dinner:
Scrambled eggs on toast or Ryvita
or
Steak/Lamb Chops, carrots and brocolli
or
Spaghetti Bologneise

Sometimes will have a bar of chocolate or a few biccies...!!

Not enough detail tbh.

Toast/Pitta bread. White bread or wholemeal? How many slices/Pitta each time

Bar of chocolate/few biccies. How often? how many biccies

What about fluids? Cups of tea/coffee with milk/sugar?, fizzy drinks/fruit juices?, Alcohol?

Honestly, other then Spag Bol you don't eat spuds, rice, pasta, noodles etc with dinner?

How much pasta when you have Spag Bol?

Roughly how many calories are you consuming each day/week?

Roughly how many calories do you require for maintenance?

Are you sure you are running a daily/weekly deficit?

Diet appears to be lacking in healthy fats IMPO

compaqlaptop1

garlicmayo wrote: »

HA!! I do like garlicmayo though I am not addicted to it!!

Typical day would consist of:

Breakfast:
3 x Weetabix with low fat milk and honey

Lunch:
Toast with tomato, basil and extra virgin olive oil
or
Pitta bread with ham, cheese and lettuce or just ham and lettuce
or
Beans on toast
or
Eddie rockets or similar (once a week)

Dinner:
Scrambled eggs on toast or Ryvita
or
Steak/Lamb Chops, carrots and brocolli
or
Spaghetti Bologneise

Sometimes will have a bar of chocolate or a few biccies...!!

When people post up their diets I think they always leave lots of stuff out. I mean what's posted up there would be a pretty severe cutting diet, there is hardly 1500 kcals when you add up the three meals. At least you admit you 'Sometimes will have a bar of chocolate or a few biccies' but there has to be stuff left out as there is no way those three meals would leave you overweight.

TommyKnocker

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

When people post up their diets I think they always leave lots of stuff out. I mean what's posted up there would be a pretty severe cutting diet, there is hardly 1500 kcals when you add up the three meals. At least you admit you 'Sometimes will have a bar of chocolate or a few biccies' but there has to be stuff left out as there is no way those three meals would leave you overweight.

Agree with the above tbh

What you are saying that given the exercise you are getting, that eating (typical day)

Breakfast: 3 Weetabix with milk & honey

Lunch: Pitta bread with ham, cheese & lettuce

Dinner: Steak, carrots & brocolli

Is causing you weight problems?

This is a typical days food/liquid intake for me (male, 48 yrs old, 5' 6", 12 st 7lb, 12% BF)

05:20 Breakfast
20g Oats, 3 Almond nuts, 4 hazel nuts, 4 brazil nuts, 4 half walnuts, table spn of mixed seeds, 6 grapes, 6 raspberries, 6 blackberries, 3 strawberries, table spn blueberries with 200ml skimmed milk.
2 table spoons of Coconut Oil
1 Mug green tea

Supplements: 1 multi vit, 4 fish oil caps, 1 Mega Cissus, 2 Glucosamine & Chondritin (for Joints)

09:00 At desk in work
2 scoops ON Protein, 5g Creatine 5g L-Glutamine, 300ml skimmed milk
2 generous tea spns of Peanut Butter
1/2 Banana
1 mug green tea

13:00 Lunch
6-8oz fillet steak, 2 hard boiled eggs, Salad with Spinach, rocket, mixed peppers, cherry tomatoes, red onion, spring onion, grated carrot, green beans and 6 walnut halves with an olive oil, balsamic & ginger dressing.
1 mug green tea.

16:00 At desk in work
150g homemade Cottage Cheese and mixed berries mix.
1/2 Banana

Workout between 18:00-19:30
Kettlebell Conditioning routine or Full Body weight routine (Compound lifts)

19:35 Post workout shake
2 scoops of ON Protein, 1.5 scoops of Glucose, 5g Creatine, 5g L-Glutamine, 400ml ice cold water.

20:30 ish Dinner
8oz Chicken breastk, 4 soft boiled eggs scooped out of their shell and mashed up with a knob of butter, and a fairly large salad (mixed leaves, mixed peppers, red onions, spring onions, grated carrot, 1 table spn cashew nuts, 6 cherry tomatoes with an EV Olive oil, balsamic & Ginger vinegarette, 1 table spn Coconut oil, 1 Mug green tea, 2 squares of 90% dark chocolate (my treat on lifting days )

I would also get through another 3-4 liters of fluids (water) throughout the day.

On weekends I do intermittent fasting so would eat a good deal less.

gavtron

quick question TK, do you just eat the coconut oil straight or mix it in with the oats as well?

squod

gavtron wrote: »

Yeah, well like Hanley said, Pantani was a pro athlete training and racing like 4-6 hours per day so he'd need a butt load of calories to keep going, you probably don't.
Different people, different....needs!

I didn't say I did :rolleyes:

Hanley wrote: »

The actual fat burn from exercise if you're eating large amounts of startchy carbs and sugar will be minimal - that's going to be your body's preferential source of energy so you won't use fat (which is basically just stored energy).

All the exercise in the world won't change that. It's very difficult to create a sufficient enough calorie deficit from exercise to drive fat loss.

Losing fat is all about eating less calories than you expend during the day.

You're saying that upping the number of calories burned during the day (with the same diet, creating a calorie deficit) will not reduce the OP's weight? Gotta see that for meself Hanley.

Sangre

squod wrote: »

You're saying that upping the number of calories burned during the day (with the same diet, creating a calorie deficit) will not reduce the OP's weight? Gotta see that for meself Hanley.

Of course he isn't. However, I suspect the point he is trying to make that cutting calories through diet changes is a far easier route to create a calorie deficit than trying to increase the calories burnt on top of the exercising she already does.

Basically, given all the exercising being done already, diet changes would be the quicker and easier route to weight loss.

Hanley

squod wrote: »

You're saying that upping the number of calories burned during the day (with the same diet, creating a calorie deficit) will not reduce the OP's weight? Gotta see that for meself Hanley.

What? No? That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that any gain from additional exercise on it's own probably won't be sufficient to drive weight loss.

If someone's exercising 4-5x per week at varying intensities for say a total of an hour a time and getting nowhere - as the OP is, doing another hour of exercise will only generate approximately 400-600kcals worth of a deficit, on a given day. That's < 85kcals a week at most.

Compare that to an additional 200-500kcals daily from dietary changes and you're looking at 1,400 - 3,500kcals.

Do you see what I'm getting at when I say dietary change is more important than just blindly doing more exercise?

cc87

squod wrote: »

You're saying that upping the number of calories burned during the day (with the same diet, creating a calorie deficit) will not reduce the OP's weight? Gotta see that for meself Hanley.

I think hes saying if your diet is largely carb based then these carbs will be your bodys choice for fuel rather than its fat stores, but if it was more protein and fat based then the bodys fat stores will be utilised more readily

In other words lets say a diet of 3000kcals with 2000 of those carbs wont yield the same fat loss results as one with only 500kcals coming from carbs (just rough figures now)

Hanley

Sangre wrote: »

Of course he isn't. However, I suspect the point he is trying to make that cutting calories through diet changes is a far easier route to create a calorie deficit than trying to increase the calories burnt on top of the exercising she already does.

Basically, given all the exercising being done already, diet changes would be the quicker and easier route to weight loss.

Spot on.

VonLuck

Hanley wrote: »

In isolation, that might be good advice depending upon who it's given to, but in the OPs case, who by their own admission is already doing quite a bit of high volume work, do you still consider it appropriate?

I was just suggesting as an alternative. If his current activities aren't doing it for him, maybe he should try something different?

squod

Hanley wrote: »

Do you see what I'm getting at when I say dietary change is more important than just blindly doing more exercise?

Agree. I'd find changing a bunch of stuff at once to be a big pain in the hole. Maybe it's just me. I'd much rather spend the extra time turning a wheel than arranging dinners for meself in advance. Diet for me is directly linked to my lifestyle.

Hanley

VonLuck wrote: »

I was just suggesting as an alternative. If his current activities aren't doing it for him, maybe he should try something different?

His current activities are pretty much what you're suggesting...

And, given two types of exercise done for the same amount of time, say LIT/steady state done at a decent pace versus HIIT, the differential on kcals burned won't be big enough to drive weight loss. You might add an additional hundred a session or so, but in the grand scheme of things that's minimal.

Examining diet shuold always come first.

TommyKnocker

gavtron wrote: »

quick question TK, do you just eat the coconut oil straight or mix it in with the oats as well?

Straight off the spoon. I buy an extra virgin Coconut oil in Dunnes which is solid at room temperature. However during warm weather I keep it in the fridge. If I am frying I use coconut oil as it is stable at high temperatures. But I also take it off the spoon as a boost to my healthy fat intake. I scrape a table spoon across the surface of the oil to create small flakes. I would have about 3 rounded table spoons of this each day. If you melted this it would probably be closer to 5 or 6 table spoons of liquid oil.

The oil Dunnes sell is branded "cocowell" and has a really nice (IMO) light coconut taste, sort of like dessicated coconut, so I find it really easy to take. Much nicer than the cod liver oil I was dosed with as a child :D

TimeToShine

TK, why do you take your creatine at 9AM instead of half an hour before your workout?

Kadongy

I spent a week smoking 20 cigarettes a day, not eating much, not sleeping much.

Quit the fags again. Went to the gym. I'd lost 3kg. Lifted weights. Strength loss was minimal.

I was not obese or anything (not ripped either). Had 33"-34" waist at 6'2" and 89-90kg. Now 32" waist, same height.

No idea why I didn't lose more muscle tbh.

TommyKnocker

TimeToShine wrote: »

TK, why do you take your creatine at 9AM instead of half an hour before your workout?

I take it in a PWO shake on lifting days an in my morning shake. I don't believe that there is any benefit to be gained from timing the intake and I don't think that if I took it 30 minutes prior to a workout that my body would have processed it and made it available. I have never seen Creatine marketed as a pre workout supplement tbh.

IMO this is simply a supplement, not a magic powder. While I believe that it gives me a little something, as long as my body has sufficient creatine available that's what counts in my book.

cc87

Kadongy wrote: »

I spent a week smoking 20 cigarettes a day, not eating much, not sleeping much.

Quit the fags again. Went to the gym. I'd lost 3kg. Lifted weights. Strength loss was minimal.

I was not obese or anything (not ripped either). Had 33"-34" waist at 6'2" and 89-90kg. Now 32" waist, same height.

No idea why I didn't lose more muscle tbh.

Because it was only a week.

rocky

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Straight off the spoon. I buy an extra virgin Coconut oil in Dunnes which is solid at room temperature. However during warm weather I keep it in the fridge. If I am frying I use coconut oil as it is stable at high temperatures. But I also take it off the spoon as a boost to my healthy fat intake. I scrape a table spoon across the surface of the oil to create small flakes. I would have about 3 rounded table spoons of this each day. If you melted this it would probably be closer to 5 or 6 table spoons of liquid oil.

The oil Dunnes sell is branded "cocowell" and has a really nice (IMO) light coconut taste, sort of like dessicated coconut, so I find it really easy to take. Much nicer than the cod liver oil I was dosed with as a child :D

What nutrition do you think can be found in coconut oil ? I understand replacing vegetable oils with it when frying etc, but to 'supplement' your diet with it? Maybe if you want to gain weight and cannot get enough calories otherwise...

Coconut oil nutrition: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/508/2

Mellor

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

When people post up their diets I think they always leave lots of stuff out. I mean what's posted up there would be a pretty severe cutting diet, there is hardly 1500 kcals when you add up the three meals. .

you can't possibly know that as he hasn't included portion size.

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Agree with the above tbh

What you are saying that given the exercise you are getting, that eating (typical day)

Breakfast: 3 Weetabix with milk & honey

Lunch: Pitta bread with ham, cheese & lettuce

Dinner: Steak, carrots & brocolli

Is causing you weight problems?

Why couldn't it be?
Just because at your meal size it is low doesn't mean the OP is the same.
There are plenty of overweight people who only eat 3 meals a day. On average, I would say that over weight people tend to have larger portion sizes. So its defo an area i'd suggest the OP looks at.

squod wrote: »

You're saying that upping the number of calories burned during the day (with the same diet, creating a calorie deficit) will not reduce the OP's weight? Gotta see that for meself Hanley.

He said losing fat is all about eating less than you expend.
Upping the number of calories burned during the day (with the same diet) is still eating less than you expend.

Simply looking at the number of calories burnt for an hours excercise, and the number of calories in an average meal should make it rather obvious the easiest way to achieve a deficit.

TommyKnocker

Mellor wrote: »

Why couldn't it be?
Just because at your meal size it is low doesn't mean the OP is the same.
There are plenty of overweight people who only eat 3 meals a day. On average, I would say that over weight people tend to have larger portion sizes. So its defo an area i'd suggest the OP looks at.

Because

So I'm 30.. I'm 5'8" and currently weigh 14 stone.

OK, so my diet isn't the most balanced or most nutritious but it is not the worst either. I just can't seem to loose any weight even though I play hockey at a fairly high level, train at least twice a week with matches also on top of that, plus I do further exercise with bootcamp, walking, tag rugby and various other activities?

I estimate the following

BMR: 1950 cals approx

Harris Benedict Formula To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

1. If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
2. If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
3. If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
4. If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
5. If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

I am picking 1.725 (very actvie) as the multiplier to apply to his BMR figure

1950 * 1.725 = 3363cals as his daily maintenance calorie requirements.

Subtract 500 calories to create a calorie deficit and you have a daily figure of 2863 cals.

He would want to be eating some pretty big portions for the foods he listed (if that is seriously all that passes his lips in a typical day) to be providing the best part of 3000 calories IMHO.

Mellor

My point was that its could be more than 1500 calories (as was suggested). I was aiming more at the previous poster. Some people eat huge portions.
It's pointless that to estimate cals without quantity, which is what I was saying. I don't believe thats a complete list of everything, for example no drinks are listed, if for example he gets through a lot of milk it would addup.

I think its natural to over estimate calories from excercise. Very active (BMR x 1.725) is a pretty high level. Works out at over 7000 cals a week from excercise, which is an awful lot really. To be safe I always knock it back a level when working out a defecit.

TommyKnocker

rocky wrote: »

What nutrition do you think can be found in coconut oil ? I understand replacing vegetable oils with it when frying etc, but to 'supplement' your diet with it? Maybe if you want to gain weight and cannot get enough calories otherwise...

Coconut oil nutrition: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/508/2

I think that I will get some beneficial fatty acids, some micro-nutrients and calories from coconut oil. I aim to eat a high protein, moderate fat, lowish carb diet and cocnut oil is one of the sources of my fat calories.

Coconut oil is also purported to have numerous health benefits, and if it even gives half of the benefits attributed to it, then I fail to see the downside.

boomtown84

cc87 wrote: »

In other words lets say a diet of 3000kcals with 2000 of those carbs wont yield the same fat loss results as one with only 500kcals coming from carbs (just rough figures now)

This isn't accurate cc87-
when you're cutting and keep the protein to required levels, the fat loss will be identical no matter what way you fill your remaining calories.
ie. 3,000 kcals of Pr and fats will yield the same results as 3,000 kcals of Pr and CHO....as long as 3,000 is below maintenance.