Do you view downloading as stealing?

LighterGuy

A topic that came up in another thread I posted in.

lets face it, lots of people download. weather it be a simple song... to an entire album... to the latest movie or game.


But some people view it as not stealing at all ... others find it a victimless crime (which we can all relate to)
So whats your view on downloading?

is it stealing?
or not stealing at all?

*edit*
this thread isnt about if downloading is right or wrong :pac: its just about whats peoples official view on it.

drdeadlift

na

flutterflye

Yes, definitely.

Still do it all the time though!

sbsquarepants

I view charging €15 for an album as stealing!:mad:

smk89

If it was a crime I'd have a criminal name. The Pheasant, and I'd leave a feather on every torrent site

jdooley28

No I wouldn't steal a car but if I could download one i certainly would

Wolfe Tone

I suppose it kinda is stealing, meh.


/opens uTorrent

Eric Cartman

if I steal a car, somebody is down 1 car

if I download a movie , the studio still has the movie

They dont lose any money on me as I would either a)find some other way to pirate it - record it off tv, borrow the dvd from a mate and copy it etc or b) just go without

all of this is just 1s and 0s organised in different ways, im not going to pay for a few numbers

Mars Bar

No, it's taking a copy of the original, not the original itself.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8809/piracy.jpg

chin_grin

Hmmm.

hypermuse

IMO isnt a big deal downloading stuff..

You download it coz you like it..


The big problem is people who download stuff to sell on to others and make a raw profit...

naughty naughty.. cant be doing that now!!

kippy

Downloading copyrighted material that has cost money to create without paying for it is stealing.

Try walking into a shop, picking up a DVD and walking out with it.
Same thing.

humanji

I think technically it isn't (probably more a case of forgery) but I see it as stealing. I don't care that people do it, but I hate people trying to justify it.

ScumLord

It is stealing and I wouldn't want to take money off people that do the work but most of the crap on TV, in the cinema and on the radio is pure and utter muck. I wouldn't pay for it ever.
I will use official channels when they're available like channel 4 and rte but I think the whole hollywood movie system is overblown, if they want to spend millions making a film that's fine but don't expect me to pay for your bloated overpaid shyte.

If it was possible to donate money directly to the makers of films I'd probably do that, there have been some films that I felt bad for downloading because they where that good and would have sent them money if I could. I'm not paying for a useless piece of plastic to collect dust in my spare room though.

LighterGuy

humanji wrote: »

I think technically it isn't (probably more a case of forgery) but I see it as stealing. I don't care that people do it, but I hate people trying to justify it.

Exactly!
hence why I made the thread. Wondering if people will just say "i download, i dont care" ... or say "i download ... *justifies*" :pac:

flutterflye

Before the internet, people recorded songs from the radio onto tapes.

People will always find a way.

I don't feel particularly sorry for the A list actors, singers, directors etc...

But it is hard on the smaller guy trying to make it in whatever industry they're in.

Again, I will continue to do it though for as long as it is possible.

Conor108

While I hate ads, I think if record companies or artists just let you download an album/song from their site after viewing x amount of ads that would be grand. It would be legal and you'd be getting a standard of quality.

Same with TV networks, something like Hulu I guess but not region locked and ads tailored to each geographic region.

Temptamperu

kippy wrote: »

Downloading copyrighted material that has cost money to create without paying for it is stealing.

Try walking into a shop, picking up a DVD and walking out with it.
Same thing.

But its probably paid for it self a thousand times over what with product placing.

Aldebaran

Oh yeah, it's definitely stealing and it amuses me to see people try and justify it as anything other than that.

I still do it though. :pac:

ScumLord

Conor108 wrote: »

Same with TV networks, something like Hulu I guess but not region locked and ads tailored to each geographic region.

There's no reason why RTE couldn't be doing that on the player, it could effectively sell the same ad space to maybe 10 different clients at a reduced price to sell which might encourage more business for everybody and even make RTE more relevant by opening up local advertising that is priced out of the main channels.

banquo

My justification: I see it as an act of civil disobedience that will hopefully force the studios to distribute the content in a way that I want to consume.

Gimme VUDU / Netflix and I'll stop downloading.

Dman001

There are a number of ways to view illegal downloading:

On one hand, you are obtaining X video/song for free that you could have paid for and obtained legally. This could be classified as stealing.

But, then again, there are many who download content simply because it is free. They wouldn't have paid for it to begin with, even if the only method to get the song/movie was to purchase the DVD/album. So there isn't any opportunity financial loss to the Music/Movie studios as they weren't going to buy it any way. Of course, this doesn't morally justify illegal downloading.

strobe

I consider it retribution/reparation.

Kinky Slinky

It's a form of theft , like manslaughter is a form of murder it's not exactly the same thing, if you boil it down you could argue that it's theft. "Potential earnings" blah blah blah, hate those words

Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as "theft". In law copyright infringement does not refer to actual theft, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.[5] Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft, holding, for instance, in the United States Supreme Court case Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property and that "...interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright... 'an infringer of the copyright.'" In the case of copyright infringement the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law is invaded, i.e. exclusive rights, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held.[6]

Elmidena

It's not stealing if you seed back at 1:1 ratio, you're returning what you borrowed :cool:






Tbh I don't download much at all, and when I do it's more duplicates of cds I bought years ago and lost the disc to, so I already have copyright rights to the album!

Kinky Slinky

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I view charging €15 for an album as stealing!:mad:

If you don't like the price don't buy it

Seachmall

Sunshine! wrote: »

It's not stealing if you seed back at 1:1 ratio, you're returning what you borrowed :cool:

I've a got a 3:1 ratio, I'm practically Santa! :pac:


And no, no one is being deprived of anything. It's copyright infringement, not theft.

If in the future when we can download information off our brain will it be considered copyright infringement if we share our memory of a movie with others? Or does it have to be on a separate medium?

What if I learn and recite a book verbatim to a friend? He has now no need to buy the audio book.

7sr2z3fely84g5

The courts would be very busy if they could catch anyone at it,particularly mostly teens who engage in it.

I think the "loss" of sales in music is down to some of it just being shít.

Soon they be blaming legit second hand cd sales on amazon.

Little Acorn

It is stealing, but for some reason I don't place it in the same category as somebody stealing from a shop. Not sure why, probably because it is so commonplace, and most people I know do it.
I don't download anything because I am afraid of a file fcking up my laptop [even with internet security].
I don't download music because I don't have an ipod.
I will just make various playlists on youtube of all the songs I like. If I really like a particular artist, I will buy the album when it has gone down in price.
I do however stream films very regularly.
If it is a good film I will definitely buy it because I just like having the dvd at hand. [again though, I would probably wait until it has gone down in price]
I also stream old episodes of tv shows, and if it is a series that I really enjoy, then I will buy the boxset of it when they have those "70% of boxset" sales in hmv.
I have also in the past bought pirated dvds before I discovered I could just stream them myself.
I kinda see streaming as a sort of trial version. If I like it then I will buy it.
Although, I suppose it's not that different to downloading because I am still watching something for free which is probably stealing, the only difference is I don't have a stolen copy of my own to keep at the end of it.

Ash.J.Williams

ScumLord wrote: »

It is stealing and I wouldn't want to take money off people that do the work but most of the crap on TV, in the cinema and on the radio is pure and utter muck. I wouldn't pay for it ever.
I will use official channels when they're available like channel 4 and rte but I think the whole hollywood movie system is overblown, if they want to spend millions making a film that's fine but don't expect me to pay for your bloated overpaid shyte.

If it was possible to donate money directly to the makers of films I'd probably do that, there have been some films that I felt bad for downloading because they where that good and would have sent them money if I could. I'm not paying for a useless piece of plastic to collect dust in my spare room though.

Rather than buy milk in the shop, you would shoplift it until you found a way to give "a donation" directly to the farmer?

ghostdancer

this week i downloaded a few albums by bands i've only heard of this week.
i wouldn't go to MHV and spend 15quid a pop on several albums by bands i've barely heard of.
i might like them, and go see the band in concert.
i might not like them, and delete them.

either way, the bands have lost nothing from my downloading their album.
if anything, my downloading their albums has potentially increased their revenue.

with movies, i'll see things i'm really looking forward to in the cinema. most films however, i could take or leave, and so if i don't download it, the only other chance i'll have to see it is on tv. arguably a loss of me watching some ads, but no loss to the makers of the film.

Elmidena

Seachmall wrote: »

download information off our brain

Lol, that site cites the PS3 as "a sign of things to come".

I agree and disagree with the many arguments of piracy. I'm a writer and have never written with money in mind, I do it for the pleasure the reader would get, not how fat my wallet will become.

The same with bands, the true successes are the ones who live for the fans and gigs, not tshirt sales. Sufficient funding has to be provided for breadlines to be met, and tbh I now realise that I'm sounding a bit like Andrew Ryan here. If things are fairer, people are happier to part with their money, not throw dollars at a faceless giant.

I did read this article recently though, and think something like this is a good idea and would be nice if when it's ironed out properly, more ideas sprang up like it.

Alter-Ego

If i didn't download it I probably wouldn't pay for it and miss out anyway.

When it comes to music, there's bands/artists I never would have gotten into if i didn't get their music for free and I've subsequently gone to their gigs and bought merch, keeping said bands/artists in heroin/coke/groupies so its all good in the hood.

Seachmall

The phonograph killed the music industry years ago.
The Tape Recorder lowered it into the grave.
The CD did the mass.
And Torrents are simply shoveling the dirt into the grave.

CardBordWindow

I was brought up with the motto : Sharing is Caring.

YFlyer

Seachmall wrote: »

If in the future when we can download information off our brain will it be considered copyright infringement if we share our memory of a movie with others? Or does it have to be on a separate medium?

Slightly off topic by me.

There is no evidence, in that article, to show that brain downloading is possible.

decisions

I aggre with Fry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCk9Cheiqqg

Seachmall

YFlyer wrote: »

Slightly off topic by me.

There is no evidence, in that article, to show that brain downloading is possible.

Ya, I just googled "Brain Downloading" and that appeared. Didn't read it :pac:.

However It's entirely possible we just don't have the technology yet.

Brain-Computer Interface

Spread

If you pick and eat a Blackberry in someone's garden ...... it's stealing. If you pick and eat a Blackberry that's growing on a roadside bush ....... it's OK. At least that's the way God looks at it ........ and the Courts.

Ruu_Old

I'll give it back when I'm finished watching. :mad:

wild_cat

With the likes of brand named software I think it creates brand loyalty and most will go on to purchase a licence when they're finished being students etc.

blastman

It's called stealing by the music/movie business because it's a more emotive term than copyright infringement, which is what it actually is in law. If they could get away with equating it to and then calling it rape or murder, they'd do it in a second.

WealthyB

What's the difference between recording a song off the radio onto your cassette player like the entire world did in the 80's and downloading an Mp3 file?

None. Yet one was wholly accepted and the other is now regarded as a crime.

BengaLover

It is stealing..thats why they call it piracy.
Thats why you can get not only a fine but imprisonment.
Someone I know recently got a 500 euro fine for illegally downloading movies, and a warning that next time the penalty could be a lot more severe.

Seachmall

BengaLover wrote: »

It is stealing..thats why they call it piracy.
Thats why you can get not only a fine but imprisonment.
Someone I know recently got a 500 euro fine for illegally downloading movies, and a warning that next time the penalty could be a lot more severe.

It's copyright infringement, that's why you don't get charged for theft but copyright infringement.

Lone Stone

ive never downloaded anything that i would have paid to see or own because if i do really want some thing il pay for it so no they arent loosing anything as far i am concerned, like i still buy dvds why ? because i like to own it if i like it but i could have downloaded it without a second thought.

Point im making is if its good you will make money no matter who downloads your product of the internet and your not loosing anything because their is no way to prove these people would have bought it if it wasnt there for them to get for free in the first place.

BengaLover

A digital music study conducted by the entertainment research firm NPD Group concluded that in 2009 alone, U.S. consumers had paid for only 37 percent of all the music they acquired that year. Frontier Economics also recently estimated that U.S. Internet users annually consume between $7 billion and $20 billion worth of digitally-pirated recorded music.

Cara Duckworth Weiblinger, vice president of communications at the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) -- a group that represents recording industry distributors in the United States -- says that downloading music illegally is like stealing the artists' work.

http://www.ipi.org/IPI/IPIPressReleases.nsf/9fce97dc4660e5e78625763a007d9cba/c8a20061b35a0a97862578500056f1b2?OpenDocument

humanji

Cara Duckworth Weiblinger has got to be a made up name.

Seachmall

BengaLover wrote: »

A digital music study conducted by the entertainment research firm NPD Group concluded that in 2009 alone, U.S. consumers had paid for only 37 percent of all the music they acquired that year. Frontier Economics also recently estimated that U.S. Internet users annually consume between $7 billion and $20 billion worth of digitally-pirated recorded music.

Cara Duckworth Weiblinger, vice president of communications at the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) -- a group that represents recording industry distributors in the United States -- says that downloading music illegally is like stealing the artists' work.

http://www.ipi.org/IPI/IPIPressReleases.nsf/9fce97dc4660e5e78625763a007d9cba/c8a20061b35a0a97862578500056f1b2?OpenDocument

The music industry must be on it's knees at the moment!

How do they pay for all those high-flying lawyers of theirs?

:pac:

minidazzler

No, not stealing, but it is copyright infringement and I really dislike people who do it.

STIG83

It's not illegal, it's just frowned upon.