A Worrying trend in Argos

gflood

I went into Argos in Dundrum. The layout of the store has changed. Instead of people manning cashiers there are now automated machines. There was one guy for assistance, another at the desk and I spoke to them and they told me there are two guys downstairs. That is 4 employees for that store. I think in these times that a retail job would offer some comfort for someone looking to earn a few Euro. However it seems as such that retail jobs will be extinct very shortly. Tesco are another example. I guess that is the consequence of technological advancements.

My point is that the prices have not reduced. Granted there is capital investment upfront to fund the machines but if they are going to go down this route I want to see a reduction in retail prices.

dudara

This isn't a Consumer Issue. Let's try Work & Jobs

dudara

Access

I want a reduction in retail prices too... but you know and I know there is no chance of that happening!

Also, Those self service points have been in argos in the north and uk for the past two years.

blastman

Longer than that, even, I'd say. I was in an Argos in England about five years ago that had them.

littlejp

Excellent. One less person to have to talk to.

gflood

Well they will be everywhere very soon. I am amazed Tesco even keep tills open nowadays. I have to say the functionality of them was impressive. Pretty slick. Thank heavens the catalog is online too so you don't need that stupid book.

Solair

They've had those at Argos in Mahon Point and at Blackpool Retail Park in Cork for about the last 2 or even 3 years.

Stores with automatic checkouts:

Tesco - everywhere pretty much.
B&Q (Cork anyway)
Argos
Superquinn (first to introduce them with SuperScan handheld scanners over 10 years ago!)
Dunnes Stores - They have them in Patrick's Street in Cork anyway.

Automatic checkouts are going to become a lot more prevalent as the technology's well proven and getting cheaper.

cdsb46

littlejp wrote: »

Excellent. One less person to have to talk to.

it's actually one extra person, as in most stores they had to take someone on to cover the kiosks, as you still need staff to cover the tills, customer services, jewellery,stockroom and collection, let alone the management which most stores have at least three and then at least team-leaders, so in fact they haven't reduced any numbers

Soby

cdsb46 wrote: »

it's actually one extra person, as in most stores they had to take someone on to cover the kiosks, as you still need staff to cover the tills, customer services, jewellery,stockroom and collection, let alone the management which most stores have at least three and then at least team-leaders, so in fact they haven't reduced any numbers

Well not really if they have one person covering 4 self service tills.That is 3 less people serving at a normal till

jackiebaron

Solair wrote: »

They've had those at Argos in Mahon Point and at Blackpool Retail Park in Cork for about the last 2 or even 3 years.

Stores with automatic checkouts:

Tesco - everywhere pretty much.
B&Q (Cork anyway)
Argos
Superquinn (first to introduce them with SuperScan handheld scanners over 10 years ago!)
Dunnes Stores - They have them in Patrick's Street in Cork anyway.

Automatic checkouts are going to become a lot more prevalent as the technology's well proven and getting cheaper.

How do you pay?

phasers

jackiebaron wrote: »

How do you pay?

You insert money or a card, like a parking meter or a vending machine.

Solair

jackiebaron wrote: »

How do you pay?

Laser, Visa Debit, Visa Credit, Mastercard, etc etc.

Or, cash (Euro notes and coins).

You can also pay with Tesco vouchers by scanning their barcodes and pushing them into the voucher slot.

Superscan at Superquinn is the coolest one.

You register for the service. Then when you go to the store, you wave your club card under a barcode scanner and it allocates you a handheld scanner which you take with you in the shop. As you're shopping you scan the items and place them directly into a reusable shopping bag.

You then hand the scanner to a checkout person and the contents are downloaded, you pay and walk out.

i.e. there's no actual check-out process as you do it as you go.

The service is subject to audits and they know who you are as you can't use it without a club card.

Daegerty

Soon the great robot revolution will leave everyone unemployed. Except for a few robot owners maybe

Shelflife

Daegerty wrote: »

Soon the great robot revolution will leave everyone unemployed. Except for a few robot owners maybe

Its a worrying trend tbh, at what stage will people cry stop?

the banks started a trend years ago encouraging people to go online, when the local manager asked me about it i replied was he worried that he would eventually lose his job if alot of the customers went online? he laughed at me , now that bank is closed and he lost his job.

we are entering a stage in retail where the consumer are placing a premium on price only and are maybe missing out on the overall picture. its not too far away where shops such as argos/tesco and the discounters will only have a manager and shelf stackers, there will be little or no aftersales or even pre sales service and if you have a problem you will have to call a hotline with voice recognition service.

bottom line is that these self service tills will result in alot of job losses and a very slight if any price reduction as all of the savings go to the bottom line of the company.

if thats what you want well and good, just remember that when the "till" refuses your perfectly good €10 and you have to leave your shopping behind because there is no-one there that can help you.

highlydebased

Solair wrote: »

Dunnes Stores - They have them in Patrick's Street in Cork anyway.

It's the only Dunnes that has them AFAIK. They claim they "take away from the personal experience"....

If you call having to queue for ages because they have so few checkouts open and no self scans then that beats me!

daheff

but what about the problems with the self service scans??? i've regularily (in tesco) had products not being recognised or not on the system( eg fruit/ breads)

and then a couple of times a til has decided to reboot itself mid shop - immensely frustrating!!

Jammyc

highlydebased wrote: »

It's the only Dunnes that has them AFAIK. They claim they "take away from the personal experience"....

If you call having to queue for ages because they have so few checkouts open and no self scans then that beats me!

Dunnes in St. Stephens Green Shopping Centre have them too.

listermint

daheff wrote: »

but what about the problems with the self service scans??? i've regularily (in tesco) had products not being recognised or not on the system( eg fruit/ breads)

and then a couple of times a til has decided to reboot itself mid shop - immensely frustrating!!

Ive quite often felt like putting my foot through the screen. Especially with the item not detected in bagging area!!! ARRRRGGGG

leeroybrown

Argos have always been a minimal staff warehouse operation so it's obvious for them to cut further. As it is all the till staff were doing is taking a paper slip, receiving money and printing a receipt. They get a better margin in the short-term and get to stay ahead of the competition in the longer term. The main warehouses that supply the Argos stores is likely to be heavily automated too with the people only receiving the final goods to load onto trucks.

Expect to see more and more of this. Mechanisation and automation has been removing human costs and inefficiencies from work for centuries now.

convert

Was in Argos in Stephen's Green SC and they had three of them - they only accept laser or a credit card, so if you're paying by cash you have to use the till. The staff member, who directed me towards the machine before actually asking if I wanted to pay by card or cash, was actually really rude when I said I wanted to pay by cash as it meant they had to get another staff member, who was taking stock off the shelf and putting it back on more neatly (i.e. doing nothing), to man the till.

Anyway, it turned out paying by cash was much quicker as only one of them was working, which resulted in a huge queue. And the idot staff member, who wouldn't accept anyone not paying cash at the till (despite telling me that the card machines at the till was working - I asked), still insisted it was quicker to pay by card!

Why do shops not get that people would still prefer to deal with a person rather than an idiot machine that rarely works the way it was intended!

dan_d

Have seen them in (Dublin) Ikea, B&Q, Tesco (where they never work properly..) among others. I don't really frequent Argos, so I haven't seen them there yet. Oh and while heading away last year sometime we went through the Aer Lingus Area 14 in terminal 1 which allowed you to check in and deposit your bag, all via touch screen. It was great, I have to say. Quick,easy, no queues, got rid of the bags and got the boarding cards all in one go. There were 2 ground staff there to help if you needed it. I think they've since closed that though:(

I can see how'd they'd be useful in some places, but only as long as they work properly...it's just twice as complicated when they don't.

doolox

Since the dawn of time mechanization and automation of processes has resulted in job losses and adjustments for the affected people. In the industrial revolution a group called the Luddites tried to smash mechanised looms which were putting manual weavers out of business. Similar tensions have existed between workers and Employers in a lot of industries and have shrank the various sectors to what we have today.
Originally 90% of workers were in agriculture and the rest in services/crafts.
Now only 3% are in agriculture. and 70% are in services.
Manufacturing and primary production (Mining etc..) now account for a tiny fraction of what they used to employ.

People at school today will have to get used to doing interviews for 40 to 50 jobs in their lifetime and lifelong study and career change will be the norm.
High government intervention, social welfare, adult education and training etc will be the norm for most people of working age. In my parents time a job for life was the norm and those holding more than 2 to 3 jobs in their working lives were viewed as unusual.

In my generation 3 or more jobs in a lifetime is normal with periods of unemployment no longer the source of shame or failure they once were.

With increasing automation and concentration of employment power in the hands of fewer companies people need to be educated differently than heretofore.
In the recent past qualities such as conforming and obeying, taking orders unquestioningly from a superior, memory work of large volumes of arcane knowledge etc were prized and rewarded.
Such behaviour in the future will land you on the dole queues and poverty.
New qualities needed are independent thinking, problem solving, research, questioning of the status quo will be the most required and rewarded qualities in the worker of the future.

Tyrant^

Another 10 or 20 years and the shops will have 1 staff member or no staff. Maybe a guy sitting in a office somewhere with remote access to the machines incase one blows up.

Technology + job creation prospects = bad

maglite

Shelflife wrote: »

Its a worrying trend tbh, at what stage will people cry stop?

the banks started a trend years ago

You should see this idea they have for an Automated teller. Wild suggestion that I may soon be able to get money from a machine in the wall without queuing in a bank.

WoollyRedHat

Self-service machines are grand in one sense, only that

A). There always seems to be a problem with them

. Most people who use them are idiots

IME

wmpdd3

Its always funny when the person in front buying 3 items says, don't use this one its banjax. But I zip through it with 15 products....10 seconds flat.

gflood

I don't have time for a detailed discussion but consider this:

Retail has been around for centuries (markets, bartering etc). It a part of the social fabric. I see that being destroyed.

My first job was retail, I learned a lot of skills and made friends etc. That too will be eliminated. Where are young people going to get first time work experience? When I was in Tokyo they had self service restaurants. The places were drab, no life whatsoever. Just like Argos the other day. I see wider implications for this with no benefit for the customer.

Shelflife

maglite wrote: »

You should see this idea they have for an Automated teller. Wild suggestion that I may soon be able to get money from a machine in the wall without queuing in a bank.

The point i was making was that the manager was effectively making himself redundant by encouraging the customers to go on line and not come into his branch.

In the same way staff who shop elsewhere for their groceries are also shooting themselves in the foot.

And staff who use and encourage the use of the automated tills are also making themselves redundant.

Augmerson

doolox wrote: »

......
New qualities needed are independent thinking, problem solving, research, questioning of the status quo will be the most required and rewarded qualities in the worker of the future.

Good post and while I agree with most of it, I am not so sure that companies will ever want their workers to question the status quo. Next thing you know they'll be questioning why their manager is making double or triple what they get.

Pythia

Shelflife wrote: »

the banks started a trend years ago encouraging people to go online, when the local manager asked me about it i replied was he worried that he would eventually lose his job if alot of the customers went online? he laughed at me , now that bank is closed and he lost his job.

Trust me, online banking is not why that bank closed.

Mrs OBumble

Tyrant^ wrote: »

Another 10 or 20 years and the shops will have 1 staff member or no staff. Maybe a guy sitting in a office somewhere with remote access to the machines incase one blows up.

Technology + job creation prospects = bad

Ahh, sure it's not so long since the street lights were turned on by a lad whose job it was to go around and light al the lamps. Perhaps we should have stopped the innovation of electric street lights, too, 'cos they put him out of a job.

Shelflife

Pythia wrote: »

Trust me, online banking is not why that bank closed.

Pythia im well aware that thats not the actual reason as to why it closed, i just found it weird that a turkey would vote for christmas.

Just Mary im well aware that we cant stop nor should we stop technological advancement, its just bizarre that those who complain about unemployment, loss of interaction and sales advice will be the first to use these machines.

In the same way a couple who attended a local meeting about the possibility of a local village losing the post office and were adament that it would be a travesty if it was lost then admitted that they got their pension paid direct into their bank rather than collect it in the post office.

All im saying is that we cant complain that the fox killed the chickens if we leave the gate wide open for him.

doolox

...and approaching earning a living differently as services such as banking, retailing etc join primary production (mining and agriculture) and manufacturing as being only able to employ about 5 or 10% of the available workforce.

For the foreseeable future casual work and intermittent spells of no work will become the norm for more people so that the stigma attached to unemployment now will become less as more people are affected by it.

People will have to plan for this. Long term commited debt, such as mortgages will probably shrink or become much more flexible as people will not be able to guarantee regular payments like they could in the secure jobs of the past. People will probably have to have multiple skills and many part-time job assignments to make up the money. Government may have to intervene in redistributing wealth but will be hampered by the mobility of people and cash to low-tax countries. The nation-states may have to get together to form an agreement on minimum levels of tax and services to prevent the ghettoisation of the world into high tax, high welfare states and low-tax low welfare states.
People will have to change their jobs and sectors more often and reeducate themselves more often, the government here is just copping on to this with their Springboard initiative. They also need to regulate the WPPS schemes more so that real education and experience is gained and not just free labour for the employers. A third party, to advocate for the rights and entitlements of the workers and ensure the quality and verifiability of their training, is badly needed otherwise abuses will happen.

It is disturbing that the govt are "happy" with new projects hiring 50 to about 150 people as good news for job creation whereas in the past job creation projects could count on hiring 500 to 1,000 people. New jobs tend to be for high ranking graduates with little or nothing for the averagely educated.

It is also disturbing that the Western Democracies, while celebrating the fall of Communism, haven't realised yet the huge flaws in unregulated Free-Market systems that they seem to have favoured over the last 10-20 yrs.....they have failed just as miserably but most people haven't realised it yet.

Our problems were caused by a blind faith in the Market forces, by blind obedience to advisors who lead us all into a property and investment bubble and by lack of planning to develop and educate our future workforce. We relied too much on craft trade building to employ our, mostly male, "average" attainers. Now they are unemployed in their thousands.

Average attainers on the female side could relay on jobs in offices and supermarkets but these are becoming increasingly automated. Direct sales and consultancies, such as beauticians , hairdressing etc.. can only employ a limited number, where will the rest go??

This problem of arbitrating who gets what slice of the national, or international "cake", what work is really all about, was "solved" in the last depression in the 30's by the outbreak of WW2. We can't afford as a planet to repeat that mistake again.

efb

Someone will be needed to design, program, update and maintain these machines.

At lest the machines dont look more disinterested than the cashiers!

KMFCross

Solair wrote: »

They've had those at Argos in Mahon Point and at Blackpool Retail Park in Cork for about the last 2 or even 3 years.

Stores with automatic checkouts:

Tesco - everywhere pretty much.
B&Q (Cork anyway)
Argos
Superquinn (first to introduce them with SuperScan handheld scanners over 10 years ago!)
Dunnes Stores - They have them in Patrick's Street in Cork anyway.

Automatic checkouts are going to become a lot more prevalent as the technology's well proven and getting cheaper.

SuperValu also have self checkout systems too, in Tuam, Churchstown, Carrickmacross & Ballisodare.

doolox

Yes, people will be needed to maintain, service, update and install new technology in retail and other service providers premises and, more increasingly, on-line. The numbers of people employed will be small and it still leaves our education and people formation functions (career development, job placement, recruitment etc..) with a huge problem in coping with the huge numbers of people who have lost jobs in shrinking sectors and have fallen off the edge in terms of being able to compete for scarce jobs with younger, better educated people.

In my situation I worked in computer technology at a junior level for 30 years and left my last job on voluntary redundancy as the work was becoming a struggle with constant change, more demands, no pay-rises, performance issues etc.

Having the time to get myself sorted out I was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome in 2009 and it went along way to explaining my preference for working on my own, dislike for supervisory, management roles or teamwork although I would have the raw knowledge and brainpower for such roles....I wouldn't have the innate social skills absolutely necessary for such roles. Trouble is that a lot of existing managers and supervisors, hired purely on their academic qualifications, do not have those social skills but thats another story......

I find myself at a crossroads in terms of leaving the tech sector completely, to get into some other area where I can do better or returning to education to improve my chances. Age is against me in that I only have 14 years more to work at best and any degree takes at least 4 years fulltime and about 20k in fees.....a lot of money to put down on an outside chance.

jimmycrackcorm

Soby wrote: »

Well not really if they have one person covering 4 self service tills.That is 3 less people serving at a normal till

It's a glass half empty / full scenario. My experience in Argos is that now there are extra "tills" instead but I don't have to queue like I used to except for home delivery items.

leeroybrown

I was in Argos on Sunday and tried out one of their new automated tills. They work really well and I'd be happy to use them again.

Corruptedmorals

highlydebased wrote: »

It's the only Dunnes that has them AFAIK. They claim they "take away from the personal experience"....

If you call having to queue for ages because they have so few checkouts open and no self scans then that beats me!

Stephen's Green does also, it has 4, though you are right- there definitely isn't more than 2/3 dunnes in the country with them- as well as being very understaffed of course.

SoaringPanda

It is crazy to think that the prospect for part-time work for college students and others will diminish over the coming years due to these machines. The new Argos stores for example allow customers to do everything themselves, from finding info about a product, to ordering into the store if it's out of stock and purchasing it if it is. You can't blame the company for wanting to cut costs but it's **** to think that the personnel touch will be gone and I know from having worked in retail myself that many employees do try and help customers to the best of their ability and give good service with a personnel touch.

I got through college by working part-time in retail and it's given me good experience. I hate to think how future generations will manage. It seems were destined to have a large amount of disaffected youth as the number of jobs diminishes as the population grows.

ordinary_girl

highlydebased wrote: »

It's the only Dunnes that has them AFAIK

The Dunnes in Tallaght has them, as does the grocery section of the Dunnes on Henry Street.

Eric Cartman

an automatic checkout pays for itself in 1 year , is more reliable than most retail staff (no offence , I know there are good ones but weve all had mates in their teens and 20s working retail whod just call in sick for the craic) and you only need 1 person to look after 8-10 tills , its automation at its finest

the secret in this life to making money is to replace people with machines or eliminate their position alltogether. If you can invent an automated system that replaces people youll never need to complain here ever again

Shelflife

Eric theres no doubt that the maths stack up and that in theory the machine may be more effiecient, it just suprises me that the very people who complain about job losses and automation are those that will actively use these machines.

as i said earlier turkeys voting for christmas.

RATM

I've heard that the supermarket industry is now working on laser & x-ray technology that will scan all the barcodes without the need to take any items out of your shopping trolley. So within the next few years there'll be only need for a few staff at the tills to sort out anything that goes wrong.

Then they'll most likely move onto robots for re-stocking the shelves- considering they already build cars its no great stretch of the imagination to concieve of robots re-stocking shelves at night time.

When you think of it there isn't many jobs in retail that can't be automated in some form or other.