Berrick Barnes

hsbc

I'd say more and more players will be doing this kind of thing as the hits seem to be getting bigger and bigger... Hope the guy gets over this and we see him back on the pitch when he is ready.

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6988796,00.html

wixfjord

hsbc wrote: »

I'd say more and more players will be doing this kind of thing as the hits seem to be getting bigger and bigger... Hope the guy gets over this and we see him back on the pitch when he is ready.

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6988796,00.html

Wow that's unfortunate, heard the commentators at the weekend talking about this, he seemed to be regularly getting concussions.

Bit of a loss for Aus for the WC too.
Was he supposed to be coming north after the WC? I think there were rumours about him being Sextons replacement if he had left that time.

hsbc

Yeah there was a rumour like that alright - he's a decent player if inconsistent at times. As good as Sexton - not so sure! He's under pressure over the last year or so for the Aussie 12 spot from Giteau with Cooper playing 10.

Can't see him making a full recovery from this to be honest - i'd say he'll retire from the pro game and just play club rugby and end up as a backs coach at a S15 club.

totallegend

Fair play to him. For every Berrick Barnes taking a break or retiring, there are probably twenty guys saying nothing and hoping it goes away. He's a quality player and hopefully he comes back from it.

I don't watch a huge amount of Super 15 but there does seem to be a bit of an emphasis on the 'big hit', even when not necessary.

hsbc

totallegend wrote: »

Fair play to him. For every Berrick Barnes taking a break or retiring, there are probably twenty guys saying nothing and hoping it goes away. He's a quality player and hopefully he comes back from it.

I don't watch a huge amount of Super 15 but there does seem to be a bit of an emphasis on the 'big hit', even when not necessary.

I'd say we'll really only know the extent of this probelem in 10-15 years time when guys have retired...

Kiwi_knock

He has already had at least two concussions this season so it is the right choice for him to put his career on hold.

Ciaran-Irl

He is on a mini crusade to get the IRB to look at the approved headgear allowed in Rugby. There were a few articles on the subject - here is one: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/boffin-wants-berricks-headgear-call-explored-20110602-1fiw4.html

Interesting question that. I think it is inevitable that the headgear that rugby players wear will evolve and become more sophisticated.

CatFromHue

Would I be right in saying that he took a few hits to the head last season as well?

I know he's been unlucky this season and hope he manages to get over it.

For the oz national team I presume this means it's between O Connor and Giteau for the 12 jersey. For all of the players they have available they have no specialist 12,13, and 15 who would be first choice. Giteau, Barnes, O Connor and Ashley Cooper tend to change positions regularly enough.

GerM

With Giteau's form being quite poor overall in the S15, Barnes looking shakey, Mitchell in a fitness race and AAC being shoved around the back line I think the Wallabies WC preparation is looking likely to be severely disrupted in terms of their back line. If we can suffocate Cooper (easier said than done given his array of party tricks) we could really rattle them and make a go of things.

In relation to Barnes, it's the right decision. He's only 25 and needs to think of the long term. He's a classy player and if worse came to worse, I think he would be accommodated with a back room role within Australian rugby.

Ciaran-Irl

GerM wrote: »

With Giteau's form being quite poor overall in the S15, Barnes looking shakey, Mitchell in a fitness race and AAC being shoved around the back line I think the Wallabies WC preparation is looking likely to be severely disrupted in terms of their back line. If we can suffocate Cooper (easier said than done given his array of party tricks) we could really rattle them and make a go of things.

In relation to Barnes, it's the right decision. He's only 25 and needs to think of the long term. He's a classy player and if worse came to worse, I think he would be accommodated with a back room role within Australian rugby.

I agree - James O'Connor has also been playing at 10 all year as well, and he is their most gifted backline player. It is hardly ideal having your starting centre playing out of position all year long.

Ciaran-Irl

CatFromHue wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that he took a few hits to the head last season as well?

I know he's been unlucky this season and hope he manages to get over it.

For the oz national team I presume this means it's between O Connor and Giteau for the 12 jersey. For all of the players they have available they have no specialist 12,13, and 15 who would be first choice. Giteau, Barnes, O Connor and Ashley Cooper tend to change positions regularly enough.

Kurtney Beale is a nailed on 15. Probably the best 15 in the world at the moment.

CatFromHue

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Kurtney Beale is a nailed on 15. Probably the best 15 in the world at the moment.

I was thinking I forgot someone!

They have a problem with their first choices wingers as well. Lachlan Turner, Digby Iaone and I think one of the guys from the force are in teh mix.

sock puppet

CatFromHue wrote: »

I was thinking I forgot someone!

They have a problem with their first choices wingers as well. Lachlan Turner, Digby Iaone and I think one of the guys from the force are in teh mix.

The honeybadger! O'Connor seems the likely choice though.

LostPassword

I assume that AAC will start at 13? He's a decent 13, if no world-beater, but other than that they have a savagely good backline:

Genia, Cooper, Iaone, Giteau, AAC, JOC, Beale

Not really too many weaknesses there - at least 3 world class guys with game-breaking ability.

Is there anybody else in the frame for 13 who I'm forgetting (Mortlock?)

irishbucsfan

Ioane could play 13

sock puppet

There's also Faingaa and McCabe. They'd be more backup than starting material though.

GerM

LostPassword wrote: »

I assume that AAC will start at 13? He's a decent 13, if no world-beater, but other than that they have a savagely good backline:

Genia, Cooper, Iaone, Giteau, AAC, JOC, Beale

Not really too many weaknesses there - at least 3 world class guys with game-breaking ability.

Is there anybody else in the frame for 13 who I'm forgetting (Mortlock?)

We could see AAC on the wing if Mitchell doesn't make it. It would be a mistake but he has played a bit there for the Wallabies before. On paper, that back line is very good but in reality, it's not too hot right now. Genia and Beale and arguably Cooper are the only ones living up to their billing at the moment. 12 will be a major weakness for them unless Giteau wakes up. 3 of the bottom 4 teams in the S15 will have to have Robbie Deans a bit concerned with the form of his players.

LostPassword

GerM wrote: »

We could see AAC on the wing if Mitchell doesn't make it. It would be a mistake but he has played a bit there for the Wallabies before. On paper, that back line is very good but in reality, it's not too hot right now. Genia and Beale and arguably Cooper are the only ones living up to their billing at the moment. 12 will be a major weakness for them unless Giteau wakes up. 3 of the bottom 4 teams in the S15 will have to have Robbie Deans a bit concerned with the form of his players.

I dunno about that - I'd say that he'll be pretty happy at where the reds and waratahs are at in the S15. Even if teams like the Force aren't doing too well, Pocock, O'Connor and Sharpe have looked pretty good when fit. Giteau is a classy player and will probably come good out of the malaise of the Brumbies and Cooper has been single-handedly winning games for the Reds.

I still think that we have a chance of turning them over - but if they have a good bill of health and they click at all, they are an absolute class side. Beale, Ioane, Cooper and O'Connor are all bona fide game-breakers. Hard to keep a lid on them if they're all performing - you can't just mark JOC out of the game like you can if you're playing against the force.

Ciaran-Irl

What team do people predict Australia to select against us? (I'm assuming Drew Mitchell is out)

15. Kurtley Beale (Waratahs)
14. James O'Connor (Force)
13. Adam Ashley Cooper (Brumbies)
12. Matt Giteau (Brumbies)
11. Digby Ioane (Red)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
8. Rocky Elsom (Brumbies)
7. David Pocock (Force)
6. Scott Higginbotham (Reds)
5. James Horwill (Reds)
4. Rob Simmons (Reds)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)

chunkylover4

Surely Elsom will be playing 6 with brown or palu at 8

PhatPiggins

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

What team do people predict Australia to select against us? (I'm assuming Drew Mitchell is out)

15. Kurtley Beale (Waratahs)
14. James O'Connor (Force)
13. Adam Ashley Cooper (Brumbies)
12. Matt Giteau (Brumbies)
11. Digby Ioane (Red)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
8. Rocky Elsom (Brumbies)
7. David Pocock (Force)
6. Scott Higginbotham (Reds)
5. James Horwill (Reds)
4. Rob Simmons (Reds)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)

If Sharpe is fit then he's the first forward on the list. Elsom won't make it fit or not. O'Connor will have a more central role maybe 12 or 10 depending if Coopers form doesn't improve.

chunkylover4

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Sharpe is fit then he's the first forward on the list. Elsom won't make it fit or not. O'Connor will have a more central role maybe 12 or 10 depending if Coopers form doesn't improve.

Elsom will definetly be in the squad if fit and sharpe will have one second row spot with Mumm, Horwill and Simmons fighting it out for the other starting berth

sock puppet

chunkylover4 wrote: »

Elsom will definetly be in the squad if fit and sharpe will have one second row spot with Mumm, Horwill and Simmons fighting it out for the other starting berth

It has to be Sharpe and Horwill with Simmons on the bench. Mumm has been poor and the other options are a little inexperienced. Tighthead and 8 are probably the spots most up for grabs. Between Slipper, Kepu and Alexander and Palu (if fit), McCalman and Higginbotham imo.

LuckyGent88

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Sharpe is fit then he's the first forward on the list. Elsom won't make it fit or not. O'Connor will have a more central role maybe 12 or 10 depending if Coopers form doesn't improve.

The Reds are top of the table with Cooper pulling the strings. What else do u want him to do? unreal pass off his left for winning try at the weekend aswell.

handsomecake

hindsights 20/20 but i knew it was curtains when i seen him walk off the pitch early at the weekend. he has been plagued by it. it ruined leon macdonald, and rumour has it mccaw isnt in great nick. im sure there is plenty keeping their mouths shut and hoping their problems go away.


serious respect to barnes for making a gut wrenching decision so close to a world cup- it would be easy to make the mistake of carrying on.

i think it will be good for the aussies,it forces deans hand now before the tri nations to settle on a backline. he had barnes,cooper, giteau ,ashley cooper, beale, o connor and ioane who can play a few positions each.it rules out one permutation anyway.

i would go for against nz:
10 cooper
11 ioane
12 o connor
13 ashley cooper
14 morahan/ mcabe
15 beale

and agianst sa:
10 cooper
11 ashley cooper
12 giteau
13 ioane
14 o connor
15 beale

GerM

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

The Reds are top of the table with Cooper pulling the strings. What else do u want him to do? unreal pass off his left for winning try at the weekend aswell.

He's exquisite with the ball in hand. He cannot defend though and is a poor goal kicker. If he could clear up those deficiencies he would be one of the best outhalves of the past 20 years. His natural talent is unquestionable but he's still viewed as a major weak point and teams often focus their attacks on his channel. When it comes to the crunch in the knock outs, I'd be surprised if the Reds could live with the likes of the Crusaders or Bulls at full strength.

GerM

If Drew Mitchell makes it back fit for the WC as is his target (and he seems confident) he'll be in the team. For me he's hands down their best winger and his presence is vital in terms of not having to disrupt other elements of their back line.

If Giteau or Barnes can find fitness/form over the next several weeks I think they'll be earmarked for the 12 jersey and they'll keep JOC on the wing. Big if though. Otherwise JOC will play move inside I reckon. I think the only nailed on positions are 9, 10 and 15 at the moment. Anything else is really dependent on the injuries affecting Barnes and Mitchell which could see the three quarter line being reshuffled entirely to accommodate absences.

LuckyGent88

GerM wrote: »

He's exquisite with the ball in hand. He cannot defend though and is a poor goal kicker. If he could clear up those deficiencies he would be one of the best outhalves of the past 20 years. His natural talent is unquestionable but he's still viewed as a major weak point and teams often focus their attacks on his channel. When it comes to the crunch in the knock outs, I'd be surprised if the Reds could live with the likes of the Crusaders or Bulls at full strength.

i'd agree with you when it comes to his defense and i'll expect Sexton and our centers to really attack his channel. However, O'Connor will be the goal-kicker in the world cup so the pressure wont be on Cooper there.

danthefan

GerM wrote: »

He's exquisite with the ball in hand. He cannot defend though and is a poor goal kicker. If he could clear up those deficiencies he would be one of the best outhalves of the past 20 years. His natural talent is unquestionable but he's still viewed as a major weak point and teams often focus their attacks on his channel. When it comes to the crunch in the knock outs, I'd be surprised if the Reds could live with the likes of the Crusaders or Bulls at full strength.

He probably won't be kicking for them and as we've seen for many many years it's possible to get by with a 10 who can't defend.

CatFromHue

he, cooper, spent most of the time on the wing in defence for the reds against the force on saturday. nabbed an intercept try from out there too.

hsbc

CatFromHue wrote: »

he, cooper, spent most of the time on the wing in defence for the reds against the force on saturday. nabbed an intercept try from out there too.

Class player - surely gonna be one of the stars of the WC. Could be his last hurrah as a Union player as there's big rumours he's gonna be switching codes to the NRL.

Anyone think JOC has piled on the weight(and not in a good way!)?? Saw him on Saturday and thought he looked out of shape.

handsomecake

hsbc wrote: »

Class player - surely gonna be one of the stars of the WC. Could be his last hurrah as a Union player as there's big rumours he's gonna be switching codes to the NRL.

Anyone think JOC has piled on the weight(and not in a good way!)?? Saw him on Saturday and thought he looked out of shape.

Deans wants him to put on 15 kg's+

hsbc

handsomecake wrote: »

Deans wants him to put on 15 kg's+

Seriously?? that's nearly 2.5 stone! can't see why he'd want to do that - JOC is fairly lethal at whatever weight he's at now. He must be looking at him as a 12 or 13 if that is the case.

yimrsg

hsbc wrote: »

Anyone think JOC has piled on the weight(and not in a good way!)?? Saw him on Saturday and thought he looked out of shape.

I reckon he's all right, judging only from that game against the Reds on one or two occasions 5 metres out from his own line, boxed into the corner and stepped his way out of trouble and started a counter attack from deep. If he can step attackers 5 metres away from his line he can do it to defenders 5 metres from their line.

He's not scoring that many tries as he's in the only side in the league without a try bonus point, that's probably down to them being unlucky or just poor at capitalising on chances or both. My thinking was that the Force weren't incisive at turning all that first half possession into tries and should have been 14 points up against the Reds at half time.

Just saw that he's leaving:

http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2011/rugby/story/141613.html

handsomecake

hsbc wrote: »

Seriously?? that's nearly 2.5 stone! can't see why he'd want to do that - JOC is fairly lethal at whatever weight he's at now. He must be looking at him as a 12 or 13 if that is the case.

correct deans sees him as a 12/13,but wants him to bulk up

JustinDee

handsomecake wrote: »

Deans wants him to put on 15 kg's+

What? 15kg?
Where on earth did you hear that?

David900

handsomecake wrote: »

correct deans sees him as a 12/13,but wants him to bulk up

Really?? I thought Deans would definitely play him on the wing. Around the start of last season he played a few matches at full back and Beale on the wing which was a bit of a disaster and he switched them around. I was over there when Ireland played last summer and the media were fairly unanimous that he was there wing for the foreseeable future. Can't see put why he'd want to put him in the centre tbh with plenty Giteau and Ashley-Cooper there, I wouldn't be surprised if he brought Mortlock out too but I've no idea how he's been playing this season.

GerM

JustinDee wrote: »

What? 15kg?
Where on earth did you hear that?

Would find it very dubious also. Perhaps 5kg but 15kg is a tad ridiculous. I'm not sure there's another player that has put on that bulk in their professional career. An extra 15kg would make him heavier than a few of their pack. He'd be 2 or 3 kg heavier than Pocock and the same height to put it in perspective.

handsomecake

GerM wrote: »

Would find it very dubious also. Perhaps 5kg but 15kg is a tad ridiculous. I'm not sure there's another player that has put on that bulk in their professional career. An extra 15kg would make him heavier than a few of their pack. He'd be 2 or 3 kg heavier than Pocock and the same height to put it in perspective.

kieran read was told to put on 8 kg's in his rookie year by hansen and smith. hansen refers to it in the adidas documentary " the rookie". ten weetabix for breakfast he was eating

handsomecake

http://myoquip.blogspot.com/2009/11/rugbys-age-of-low-skinfold-giants.html

im looking for deans quote , in this it says ayoola erile was 30 kgs heavier then o connor.

i think he( o connor) was giving sonny bill and nonu 25-30 kgs too

GerM

handsomecake wrote: »

kieran read was told to put on 8 kg's in his rookie year by hansen and smith. hansen refers to it in the adidas documentary " the rookie". ten weetabix for breakfast he was eating

There's a big difference between a no. 8 putting on 8kg and a winger putting on 15kg. A lot of forwards put on 3 or 4kg in their first couple of seasons. Looking at Reid's profile now, he was only about 97kg when he started out then which is far too light for a top class no. 8. He's almost 6'4". If JOC put on 15kg he'd be about the same weight as Reid and 5 inches shorter. Mad stuff.

LostPassword

Yep, mental if true. He was scintillatingly good as a skinny 18 year old - probably the most gifted rugby player we've seen emerge in the last 5 or 6 years - he's got it all. It's got to be a big risk changing his body shape drastically. He would have to learn how to control what is essentially a new body and all the time that he's put into mastering the current model could go to waste and he may never get it back.

Incidentally, I think that over-concentration on bulk and physical numbers and under-concentration on the time needed for your nervous system to adjust to controlling a different shaped body was the reason that Ireland did so crap in the last WC. A full pre-season with players surpassing all previous physical scores was followed straight after by a world cup. Put too much bulk on too quickly and your brain will take a good while to recallibrate to the new shapes, weights, etc of the bits that you are throwing around.

JustinDee

handsomecake wrote: »

i think he( o connor) was giving sonny bill and nonu 25-30 kgs too

Brian O'Driscoll is almost 20kg lighter than Sonny Bill Williams. You bulk up a player by 15kg and you've basically got a different player that is nowhere near guaranteed to be a shade of the talent they already are. You don't alter talent, you hone it.

Ciaran-Irl

He has on his hole been told to add that much weight. What are we, 85 days from the world cup? Horse****.

thomond2006

Scary times for Barnes.

GerM

HC, on reflection, I can buy into it if it was 2 or 3 years ago. JOC would have literally been a kid at the time and not finished growing. He would have been only about 75kg-80kg at the time. He would put on another stone purely through natural filling out and training as a professional without specifically aiming to bulk up hugely. If the starting point was about 78kg and he winds up at 93kg I think it's very likely. I'm guessing Deans' comments weren't at any stage in recent times.

handsomecake

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

He has on his hole been told to add that much weight. What are we, 85 days from the world cup? Horse****.

Who told him to put on 15 kg's before the world cup? Crazy if true



He was 80 kg's on debut and deans wants him 90+ to be a future 12

JustinDee

handsomecake wrote: »

He was 80 kg's on debut and deans wants him 90+ to be a future 12

Sorry but when did Dingo say he wanted to put 15kg on O'Connor? Its just that its very strange (and unrealistic) for a coach to come out with something like that. Especially given the position he was bringing him into the squad for.

handsomecake

JustinDee wrote: »

Sorry but when did Dingo say he wanted to put 15kg on O'Connor? Its just that its very strange (and unrealistic) for a coach to come out with something like that. Especially given the position he was bringing him into the squad for.

I read it within the last 8 weeks I'd say. Think it was the same interview where he said o Connor has mastered goal kicking already



Dingo Deans is a legend - some coach


The kenyan 7's guys are more my weight . 75kg's

handsomecake

http://www.allblacks.com/news/16319/OConnor-wont-be-marking-Sonny-Bill-any-time-soon

It was a version of this interview. He has put on 10 kg's since his debut

David900

From that article I think its O'Connor saying he sees his future in the midfield but no indication of Deans saying he will play him there. I suppose you can read into it the other way though. I don't really watch the Force games in Super rugby but when they tried playing O'Connor at full back at international level, his defence was quite poor. It'll be interesting to see if O'Connor would be cover for 12 at the WC as Deans seems to rate Faingaa quite highly. I'd imagine he will be kept on the wing even if there is an injury.