What happens if you do the OL paper for the Junior Cert... URGENT!

Ghostx

Hey there, really need a reply for this question soon.

If during the junior cert you sit the ordinary level paper, in 5th year can you do higher level for the leaving cert? or do you have to stick with ordinary level because you done that in the Junior Cert?

I've my Junior Cert tomorrow, and I'm thinking about doing the ordinary level paper because i'm not prepared, but my parents are worried that if I do the ordinary paper now, I won't be able to do Higher Level business for the Leaving Cert.

spurious

The SEC don't care what level you did for JC or indeed whether you did a JC at all.
Your school however, may have a requirement (a not unreasonable one I might add) that to do HL at LC you should have done it at JC.

Ghostx

spurious wrote: »

The SEC don't care what level you did for JC or indeed whether you did a JC at all.
Your school however, may have a requirement (a not unreasonable one I might add) that to do HL at LC you should have done it at JC.

I know that on the day you can take whatever paper you want, but I'm wondering if you're allowed to take the higher level class in 5th year and 6th year.

Thankyou for your answer.

martyllia

on the day of my JC maths i decided to drop to pass,and then in 5 yr i did honours

Yes you can change. Though id say do the paper, its quite hard to fail JC business

PJelly

Yes you can.

spurious

Your school may have a rule that you need to have attempted HL at JC to get into the HL class, so no-one here can tell you whether your taking OL will mean you can or cannot be in the HL class in 5th year.

You can take any exam at any level in the LC, the SEC don't care, but the SEC does not decide who sits in the HL class in your school.

PJelly

spurious wrote: »

Your school may have a rule that you need to have attempted HL at JC to get into the HL class, so no-one here can tell you whether your taking OL will mean you can or cannot be in the HL class in 5th year.

You can take any exam at any level in the LC, the SEC don't care, but the SEC does not decide who sits in the HL class in your school.

Surely a school can't refuse a student taking a level they want to?

spurious

PJelly wrote: »

Surely a school can't refuse a student taking a level they want to?

Not in the actual exam, as I've said, anyone can take any level they want in the exam, but if you are sitting next April in a class that is HL and all but, say, 5 are working at HL standard and those 5 are struggling to attain the level an OL JC student would reach, whose parents do you think will be calling for the people who can't keep up to be moved?

Someone who has aspirations to do HL at LC should not be doing OL at JC, there's a big enough gap HL JC to HL LC, without making it even bigger.

HxGH

spurious wrote: »

Your school may have a rule that you need to have attempted HL at JC to get into the HL class, so no-one here can tell you whether your taking OL will mean you can or cannot be in the HL class in 5th year.

You can take any exam at any level in the LC, the SEC don't care, but the SEC does not decide who sits in the HL class in your school.

Spurious is right.

For example, anyone who got less than a C in JC HL English had to attend the lesser HL English class since the beginning of 5th year in my school.

Note: There were enough students for 2 HL English classes. One had the best English students and the other class had the less advanced. (ie- lesser HL English class.)

However, you are the one who decides what level you wish to sit in the LC examinations.

The JC is often reffered to a pointless experience but can set you up in a strong position for your LC. Good luck.

paulmclaughlin

I did pass English for 2 years and the JC, moved up to honours English then and I think I've done well in my LC exams?

spurious

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

I did pass English for 2 years and the JC, moved up to honours English then and I think I've done well in my LC exams?

I hope you have too.
Can I ask why you didn't take Honours for the Junior?

DaveMur1

I don't think many optional subjects have separate higher & ordinary level 5th & 6th year classes , usually all thrown in together to help timetable fixing. So, really there should be no problem in doing ordinary junior cert & higher leaving cert except the obvious fact that if you didn't work enough to confidently pass junior cert business, would you work for leaving cert business.

JamJamJamJam

Can you change levels on the day of the exam at junior cert? We were always told you couldn't...

Dbstf

I think you can. I came to Ireland 5 years ago not knowing english in the slightest but they let me do Higher English in the JC and surprisingly I got one of the highest results in the class. I thought the teachers were joking when they told me that.
Anyway my english teacher in 5th and 6th year was very sceptical about me doing Higher in the Leaving even though I passed it in the JC but at the end it was my choice and I chose to do it. I did the exam last week. I hope I did well
If there's a problem just tell your parents to talk to your teacher and I don't see why they wouldn't let you do Honours.

Coeurdepirate

You've done all the work. It's not going to make a difference if you do Honours or Pass tomorrow, doing honours won't make you know any more about business.

I'm doing HL LC Business and I didn't even do it for Junior Cert, it's a breeze.

whistlin_boy

HxGH wrote: »

Spurious is right.

For example, anyone who got less than a C in JC HL English had to attend the lesser HL English class since the beginning of 5th year in my school.

Note: There were enough students for 2 HL English classes. One had the best English students and the other class had the less advanced. (ie- lesser HL English class.)

However, you are the one who decides what level you wish to sit in the LC examinations.

The JC is often reffered to a pointless experience but can set you up in a strong position for your LC. Good luck.

My school is the same as that expect for you have to have got a B to be in the top HL class and you have had to get a C to do HL at all.

what.to.do

I don't think you CAN drop down during a Junior Cert exam.

We weren't allowed back in '08, anyway.

Aineoil

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

aimzLc2

Aineoil wrote: »

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

If he does take the lower paper there is very little chance that he could scrape his way back to higher level , there is a big gap , i don't really see why anyone would drop for the junior cert i mean maybe if he wanted to put results on a cv for a summer job but otherwise even if you fail a subject /get a low grade it doesn't count for anything in jc?

SmidgeBall

My friend did ordinary maths for the JC and is doing higher in june so no it doesn't matter. It's the JC though, just do higher level, doesn't matter if you fail.

rainbowtrout

Aineoil wrote: »

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

Technically he can but if he is refusing to sit higher level for Junior Cert what makes you think you will be able to persuade him to do higher level for Leaving Cert? It's not up to the SEC to put him in a higher level/ordinary level class, that is up to his school.

There is a massive difference in the standard required for higher and ordinary level Irish at Leaving Cert, not to mind material which is on the higher course and not on the ordinary.

His school may also have a policy of not letting him into the higher level class for fifth year. If he can't show now that he is capable of doing higher level for junior cert why would they put him in the higher level class for leaving cert when he hasn't shown that he is capable of achieving at that level.

Many schools divide students for English, Irish and Maths based on Junior Cert results.

If there is one higher level class and say two ordinary level classes in fifth year in his school and 30 places in each class, and 30 students get grade A-C in higher level Irish in Junior Cert they are going to be the ones put into the higher level class, not your son. The next ones that would be given places would be the D grade higher level students if there are spaces in the class and they are interested in keeping on higher level.

Ordinary level students typically would not be put into the higher level class. It just doesn't make sense if they haven't proven they are capable. Laziness/apathy at Junior Cert level should not be rewarded with a place in the higher level class ahead of those who have proven themselves to be capable.

Maybe you should have a talk with your son again and explain the knock on effects of his choice, particularly if he is capable of achieving at higher level.

rainbowtrout

SmidgeBall wrote: »

My friend did ordinary maths for the JC and is doing higher in june so no it doesn't matter. It's the JC though, just do higher level, doesn't matter if you fail.

It wouldn't be the norm though to go from ordinary level maths at JC to higher level at LC.

Jade.

Aineoil wrote: »

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

It all depends on the school really. Normally if you do Ordinary level for junior cert in subjects like Irish, English and maths the school put you into ordinary for leaving cert. But some schools might not have a problem with leaving a student go back up to higher level.

HugsiePie

in my school, a couple of girls who did foundation maths in JC are doing ol maths. half of my HL business class did ol business in jc. One girl tried doing hl Irish for lc having done ol irish, but dropped back down as she found it to be too difficult, the same with maths. Some girls are currently doing hl English (and doing quite well may I add), having done ol for jc (this is with A LOT of grinds however).
This is just my personal experience, take from it what you will

Peregrine

Aineoil wrote: »

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

If he doesn't want to sit the HL paper for Junior Cert, what makes you think he'll want to sit the HL paper for the Leaving Cert?

By "lower level" I presume you mean Ordinary Level. Saying it's "a shame" is a bit harsh. HL Irish is hard, Junior Cert and Leaving Cert.

Most students just don't want to bother with HL and spend the time on some other subject.

ChemHickey

Aineoil wrote: »

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

My friend did OL for the Junior Cert in Irish and did HL for the LC and got an A1. Anything is possible with a little bit of hard work and dedication.

wow exuberant

My friend did pass Junior Cert Business because he was so bad at accounting and does honours now and will at least get a B.

ray2012

Aineoil wrote: »

My son insists on doing lower level Irish for Junior cert, which I think is a shame. Anyway, my question is......Will he be able to sit an honors paper in Irish in the Leaving Cert if he does lower level for the Junior Cert?

It's definitely possible. I did OL Irish for JC, as I didn't enjoy Irish at all for the junior cert, I had a horrible teacher who didn't like me at all, and I was fairly lazy. I got an A in it (in OL) in the JC, and quite enjoyed it with a different teacher. I stayed in OL up until around February of 5th year, as I hadn't even thought of going back up to HL as I thought it would be too difficult. However I enjoyed doing Irish and I was quite good at it, so I moved up half way through 5th year. I missed quite a bit in the honours class which I had to do myself, as the class had already done it. I'm in 6th year now, doing my leaving cert in a few weeks, and HL Irish would be one of my best subjects. I'll hopefully get B1 in it..

But yeah, just to say it is possible to do OL for JC and then HL for LC. I, personally, didn't find the difficulty range between the OL and HL for LC huge, but it was fairly tough. Once you work at it from 5th year, you'll be sorted.

dee_mc

Take a look at his class test results and his mock results and speak to his teacher, who should be able to indicate which level is more appropriate for your son.
Common sense would dictate that (1) if he doesn't feel able for higher level at Junior Cert, he won't feel able for it at Leaving Cert, (2) if you can't convince him to do Higher for the Junior Cert, you won't be able to convince him to try it at Leaving Cert, and (3) the Junior Cert means a hell of a lot less than the Leaving, so I would rather see him fail higher level at Junior Cert level than pass Junior Cert ordinary level, then try to crawl his way up to Leaving Cert higher!
If he already has an idea that he'd like to do a college course requiring higher level irish perhaps you could encourage him to strive for higher level and maybe get some extra tuition, go to the Gaeltacht etc in order to improve his standard. But if this is all just based on your feeling that it would be 'a shame' for him to do Ordinary level, maybe figure out why you feel that way, explain it to him and see if it changes his opinion/intentions. It probably would put his mind at rest to hear that you would be ok with him failing the higher level paper, because you would then know that he had tried it.
Good luck
Edit: sorry, meant to say, most schools are fine with students attempting HL for LC as long as they had an A or B grade in JC and are committed to the work

Danielius120

i did my jc few months ago and they asked what level i did , i said i did ordinary but i was ment to do higher , would i get into trouble and is there any consequences to it ? please replay to me its urgent

mtoutlemonde

Danielius120 wrote: »

i did my jc few months ago and they asked what level i did , i said i did ordinary but i was ment to do higher , would i get into trouble and is there any consequences to it ? please replay to me its urgent

I don't completely understand your post but because it's worrying you, I'll try to work out what's wrong. Firstly, I presume 'they' you mean your parents - if you told them you did ordinary when you should have done higher, I'm sure they want the best for you and if the higher level was stressing you out, I'm sure they will be happy for you to take ordinary level. There are no consequences for changing level - when you do the leaving cert - you can change level on the day. I hope this helps. Remember you were doing your first state exams and it can be stressful but enjoy the rest of your summer and best of luck with the results.

dee_mc

I'm guessing you're worrying that having done OL in a subject for Junior Cert, you may not be allowed to do HL for the same subject in the Leaving? It depends on the individual school, and is something you'll have to discuss with your teacher when the time comes.
If it's your parents you're worried about, tell them you panicked on the day and went for the OL paper because you were feeling nervous. Explain to them that you're glad it happened in the Junior Cert because you've learned from the experience and it will help you keep calmer for the Leaving. If they make an issue of it, there's little you can do really - what's done is done.
You can sit any paper in any state exam at any level you choose - there won't be any consequences from the State Exams Commission or anything like that.
Stop worrying, it'll all be grand!

spurious

The supervisor of your exam should package OL papers together and HL papers separately. If your paper mistakenly went off with a load of HL papers, when the corrector for that subject checks their package, it will have been sent on to an OL corrector.

Danielius120

no the thing is , i was ment to do higher level but i picked the ordinary paper and dint even say i dropped down to the supperviser in the state exams , would the SEC give out to me for doing ordinary level and not telling the supperviser that i dropped down at the acctual exam

spurious

Danielius120 wrote: »

no the thing is , i was ment to do higher level but i picked the ordinary paper and dint even say i dropped down to the supperviser in the state exams , would the SEC give out to me for doing ordinary level and not telling the supperviser that i dropped down at the acctual exam

At JC, the supervisor would have had you on the list as entered for Higher. How did you get an Ordinary paper if you didn't indicate to him/her you wanted Ordinary?

The SEC won't be giving out to anyone. Your only possible problem might be if you wanted to do HL for Leaving and your school has a policy where you must do HL at JC to do HL at LC. If you did well in the OL paper, this may not even be an issue.

Danielius120

she called out ordinary and higher , and we needed to raise our hands if we did ordinary or higher level , and i dont want to do french again for leaving so i new subjects

dee_mc

There will be no consequences - you're worrying about nothing.
Just enjoy the rest of your summer!

Smondie

Danielius120 wrote: »

no the thing is , i was ment to do higher level but i picked the ordinary paper and dint even say i dropped down to the supperviser in the state exams , would the SEC give out to me for doing ordinary level and not telling the supperviser that i dropped down at the acctual exam

No, you won't get in any trouble. It's nothing to do with the supervisor what level you were supposed to be doing.


Relax.

Have a chat with your teacher when you back to school about what level you you want to study at in that subject going forward .

Edit: i see your not intending to the subject for leaving, so you don't need to chat to your teacher about what level going forward.

Danielius120

thank you so much guys , you really did make my day , i could not sleep last night i got so worried about it , my friend said i can get into big **** cause its classified as cheating in his mind ( i dint not cheat whats so ever , i wanted to go trought the test as fast a possible) thank you again

Smondie

Danielius120 wrote: »

thank you so much guys , you really did make my day , i could not sleep last night i got so worried about it , my friend said i can get into big **** cause its classified as cheating in his mind ( i dint not cheat whats so ever , i wanted to go trought the test as fast a possible) thank you again

Your friend is winding you up. It is in no way, shape or form cheating. Don't mind them.

spurious

You might need a foreign language for some college courses, so just be aware of that.

Danielius120

a forgreign Language , im from lithuania and my first languege is lithunaian so i think im set

spurious

Danielius120 wrote: »

a forgreign Language , im from lithuania and my first languege is lithunaian so i think im set

Puikus!
Make sure you get some classes closer to the Leaving. Don't just rely on speaking it at home or watching Lithuanian TV. Read novels, good newspapers etc..

evolving_doors

PJelly wrote: »

Surely a school can't refuse a student taking a level they want to?

This is my experience of it anyway. If a student choses to do a subject in 5th yr and gets their subject options then I they have the right to whatever level they want, irrespective of the JC or what the school 'recommends'. A teacher can't force a student to change levels if they don't want to (and parents are siding with the student).

If it were possible then I think the converse should be possible i.e. a student doing honours is forced into ordinary because a teacher fears they wont get the honour (typically happens during the mocks with borderline 40%ers).
OP, you may find that a school will make you state your case and maybe talk to the honours teacher and assure them you'll be putting in the work, not disrupting the class etc.

Smondie

Gebgbegb wrote: »

This is my experience of it anyway. If a student choses to do a subject in 5th yr and gets their subject options then I they have the right to whatever level they want, irrespective of the JC or what the school 'recommends'. A teacher can't force a student to change levels if they don't want to (and parents are siding with the student).

If it were possible then I think the converse should be possible i.e. a student doing honours is forced into ordinary because a teacher fears they wont get the honour (typically happens during the mocks with borderline 40%ers).
OP, you may find that a school will make you state your case and maybe talk to the honours teacher and assure them you'll be putting in the work, not disrupting the class etc.

Op posted that 5 years ago. I'd say they are nearly finished university and the junior cert is distant memory.

spurious

Smondie wrote: »

Op posted that 5 years ago. I'd say they are nearly finished university and the junior cert is distant memory.

There are more recent queries on the same issue.

Smondie

spurious wrote: »

There are more recent queries on the same issue.

More recent. ...from 3 years ago. The most recent posters issue is a different one.

They do not intend taking the subject for the leaving and were asking about getting in trouble for doing ordinary level on the day when they had been studying higher!

spurious

It's a frequently asked question. I'm sure the mods will close the thread if they feel it's necessary.