Las Vagas comes to Two Mile Borris

Clareboy

I just don't believe it! They have actually given planning permission for a casino, 5 star hotel and race course in Two Mile Borris, Co. Tipperary. With hotels closed down or in receivership all over the country, we need Las Vagas in Two Mile Borris like we need the proverbial ' hole in the head'. Where's the money for this hair brained project going to come from? From the banks, I presume. Will we ever learn! Of course, we will hear the plaintive cry of the local gombeen politicians - " there will be jobs". And we all know where most of the jobs went during the Celtic Tiger years of madness.

dan_d

Apparently they have the backing of "foreign investors". I'd be skeptical enough of the project ever actually taking off though.....

later12

Let us catch up to speed on this, is the dominant mood now that we want private investment, but only tasteful and modest private investment? We only want Paddy in Castlebar to have enough money for a small retail unit, but we don't want Paddy to lose the run of himself with a large scale private investment from foreign investors?

Clarification?

Macha

later10 wrote: »

Let us catch up to speed on this, is the dominant mood now that we want private investment, but only tasteful and modest private investment? We only want Paddy in Castlebar to have enough money for a small retail unit, but we don't want Paddy to lose the run of himself with a large scale private investment from foreign investors?

Clarification?

We want sustainable investment in industries that haven't already admitted to over capacity. I dread to think of the EIA on this development.

dan_d

later10 wrote: »

Let us catch up to speed on this, is the dominant mood now that we want private investment, but only tasteful and modest private investment? We only want Paddy in Castlebar to have enough money for a small retail unit, but we don't want Paddy to lose the run of himself with a large scale private investment from foreign investors?

Clarification?

??

My point was more that the money is coming from unknown sources who could pull the plug at any given time. And I suppose that it's such a pie-in-the-sky idea, which hasn't been fully approved in all it's parts, I don't know if it will ever make it past the design stage. It's a nice idea, but location-wise it seems completely nuts, and when you factor in the point that there are no casino licences granted in this country, you have to wonder what was going on in the heads of whoever proposed it, granted permission for it, and is prepared to back it financially.

That's all.

BlaasForRafa

dan_d wrote: »

Apparently they have the backing of "foreign investors". I'd be skeptical enough of the project ever actually taking off though.....

And they have the backing of that crook Lowry, god knows what kind of stroke he may have pulled behind the scenes.

This has got white elephant written all over it...thats if it gets built at all.

dsmythy

If there's no public money going into this, what is the problem?

Firefox11

No Public Money went into Ghost Estates or NAMA Hotels Either but we still seem to be paying for them.

later12

Macha wrote: »

We want sustainable investment in industries that haven't already admitted to over capacity.

Given your mention of an EIA, I am not sure what meaning of sustainable is meant here. I am going to presume the financial one, though.

It is not the job of the Government to insulate the horseracing or greyhound or hotel industries from competition.
And I would not so much say that the (hotel) industry has admitted to overcapacity, I would say that other hoteliers are simply providing the bog standard predictable reaction to increased competition in a market that they are finding difficult.

The basis for opposing a private sector innovation, based on foreign credit as it is, seems a little bewildering to be honest. Are people really suggesting that we form crisis cartels in the hotel/ racing industries? Is there a perception that this has worked to any great degree in the past?

later12

dan_d wrote: »

??

My point was more that the money is coming from unknown sources who could pull the plug at any given time. And I suppose that it's such a pie-in-the-sky idea, which hasn't been fully approved in all it's parts, I don't know if it will ever make it past the design stage. It's a nice idea, but location-wise it seems completely nuts, and when you factor in the point that there are no casino licences granted in this country...

I was not criticising question of the planning/ design/ construction processes, my comment was aimed at the OP.

you have to wonder what was going on in the heads of whoever proposed it, granted permission for it, and is prepared to back it financially.

Money. Income. Capital. Cash. Wealth. Dough.

I find it hard to believe that a significant financial assessment has not been done on this project... and if it has not, tough. He learns, he moves on and tries again. The beauty of starting up an enterprise.

finbarrk

This has to be the biggest pie in the sky in the last couple of years anyway. I don't know why the media are giving it such attention.

raymon

Lowry is corrupt........ watch this space as this develops

Zubeneschamali

later10 wrote: »

The beauty of starting up an enterprise.

Good old free enterprise, where nothing can possibly go wrong, because, after all, if it did, why all those expert investors and oh-so-professional bankers would lose their shirts! Ha ha, what an idea!

How happy we were back in those days.

tipptom

I think quirky and lowry are only basic front men for this,Quirky is putting his own money in up this point and has got the holy grail now which will be completed with the casino liecence soon,then they hand it over to chinese/american/arab big boys to take it from there,then quirky makes the shed load of money after doing all the ground work,no more risk,rosanna and his useless sons get to do an even fancier version of "cribs"for u tube and lowry gets another shed load of money of a big buisness man.Aw,it a story to beautiful not to be told.

the realpigiron

later10 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that a significant financial assessment has not been done on this project... and if it has not, tough. He learns, he moves on and tries again. The beauty of starting up an enterprise.

Yeah but in practise it doesn't work out like that does it? If Lowry and Quirke can get a government body like for example Horse Racing Ireland involved, then somewhere down the line when the whole thing goes tits up, the public exchequer will end up being liable for any debts or outstanding loans. This whole scheme stinks like hell, how did such a proposal get the green light from An Bord Pleanaila for a start?

jmayo

later10 wrote: »

...
The beauty of starting up an enterprise.

What an enterprise.
The thing that strikes me about this project is location, location, location.
If this truly has the idea of being a gambling mecca to attract foreign visitors then surely to fook it should be nearer a major airport.

It is roughly half way between Dublin and Cork.
Forget the roads to lead you to Shannon.

And to comment on your point about enterprises.
The type of enterprises we need are ones that export or replace imports if possible.
I don't care if it is building heart stints or artifical limbs, developing telecoms network management systems, making shoes or bogroll.
This enterprise has a touch of lunacy and will probably end up creating an eyesore in the middle of nowhere that will provide somewhere for a few sados to gamble their life away.

Whoever had this idea has obviously visited one of those American Indian reservation gambling haunts and thought shure we can do the same in Tipp.
Big difference is location boys.

tipptom wrote: »

I think quirky and lowry are only basic front men for this,Quirky is putting his own money in up this point and has got the holy grail now which will be completed with the casino liecence soon,then they hand it over to chinese/american/arab big boys to take it from there,then quirky makes the shed load of money after doing all the ground work,no more risk,rosanna and his useless sons get to do an even fancier version of "cribs"for u tube and lowry gets another shed load of money of a big buisness man.Aw,it a story to beautiful not to be told.

You old cynic.
I reckon the money will come from Sicily.

meglome

jmayo wrote: »

What an enterprise.
The thing that strikes me about this project is location, location, location.
If this truly has the idea of being a gambling mecca to attract foreign visitors then surely to fook it should be nearer a major airport.

It is roughly half way between Dublin and Cork.
Forget the roads to lead you to Shannon.

I'd agree. This should be built closer to an urban area. Building this massive development in the middle of nowhere seems crazy to me. They are expecting all these people to fly in but not putting it near an airport

And it doesn't help that Lowry is involved.

later12

Not going to quote a particular response, because I find all of the last few responses equally daft. If someone is willing to give this a go, and particularly when he is backing his enterprise with foreign investment, I actually think it is slightly absurd that it is being knocked in this way. The suggestion that it wouild become a NAMA esque public liability is so spurious it does not even merit a mention - suffices to say, you could make the same argument for *any* large private investment.

I really dont know what sort of people come out and oppose the creation of privately funded, private enterprise. The same ones, no doubt, who opposed the GPCE in Kerry (I am sure you are all delighted to know that the bulk of the GPCE is now going to Northern Ireland due to a less than enthusiastic response in the recession stung Republic.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0610/presswatch-business.html

IDA BLAMED AS PLANNED JOBS MAY GO TO THE NORTH - Investors behind a proposed €4 billion pharmaceutical centre have threatened to take the project to Northern Ireland after slating the IDA for stalling, writes the Irish Independent. The Global Pharmaceutical Centre of Excellence (GPCE) had promised to create up to 1,500 jobs at the Kerry Technology Park in Tralee. But GPCE spokesman Rory Doyle said the response from state agencies in Northern Ireland had been far more enthusiastic than in the Republic. Negotiations between GPCE and the IDA broke down and tensions heightened considerably following a meeting between the two groups in Dublin last Friday. GPSE chiefs privately believe relocation to Derry may now represent the best deal for them and that only a scaled-down project may go to Kerry.

I hope Lowry and anybody involved in this venture make an absolute mint on it. One thing is sure, nobody sitting at a keyboard cribbing about private enterprise is ever going to end up better off than the entrepreneur who actually takes a risk, soruces backers, and starts up an ambitious project. It is people like that who were first out of the cave, as far as I am concerned.

Zubeneschamali

later10 wrote: »

I hope Lowry and anybody involved in this venture make an absolute mint on it.

Lowry's not an investor, as far as I know, he's just a public spirited local representative.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

I knew I couldn't say that and keep a straight face!

Soldie

Let the investors worry about the financial viability of this project. If it works out then there is no doubt that plenty of jobs will be created; if it doesn't then that's too bad. I don't understand the cynicism here.

Zulu

Job in construction for a huge casino in Tipp? Fuck sake, it's like we beg for financial armageddon. FFS. :mad:

Monte Carole, or Two Mile Borris? Mediterranean or Midlands?
:rolleyes:

later12

Zulu wrote: »

it's like we beg for financial armageddon. FFS. :mad:

What? Explain how this could cause financial armageddon?

jmayo

later10 wrote: »

Not going to quote a particular response, because I find all of the last few responses equally daft.

So you find it daft when people question the siting of a gambling casino with big hotel in the ars*hole of nowhere and it is meant to attract tourists yet it is nowhere near a major airport.
Yeah the high rollers will fly into an airport 70 odd miles away.

later10 wrote: »

If someone is willing to give this a go, and particularly when he is backing his enterprise with foreign investment, I actually think it is slightly absurd that it is being knocked in this way.

BTW do you know what casinos are excellent for ?
As mod of economics you must know the answer to that one.

later10 wrote: »

I really dont know what sort of people come out and oppose the creation of privately funded, private enterprise. The same ones, no doubt, who opposed the GPCE in Kerry (I am sure you are all delighted to know that the bulk of the GPCE is now going to Northern Ireland due to a less than enthusiastic response in the recession stung Republic.

There is a big bloody difference between those two and you damm well know it.
And rather than being condescending about others posts, you might notice I mentioned that we need real entreprises not a half baked idea based on gambling.
A casino, as mooted by bertie at one point, in Dublin would be much better idea than this idea.

later10 wrote: »

I hope Lowry and anybody involved in this venture make an absolute mint on it. One thing is sure, nobody sitting at a keyboard cribbing about private enterprise is ever going to end up better off than the entrepreneur who actually takes a risk, soruces backers, and starts up an ambitious project. It is people like that who were first out of the cave, as far as I am concerned.

Big fan of lowry's form of enterprise culture are we ?

meglome

later10 wrote: »

Not going to quote a particular response, because I find all of the last few responses equally daft.

Look I'm not against this being built, if people want to gamble then let them. And let's be straight we could do with modernising our gambling laws. However I'm not buying that this is the best location for it. That's all I'm saying, I'm not seeing how that is considered daft.

Zubeneschamali

Soldie wrote: »

I don't understand the cynicism here.

8 storey hotel: we have too many hotel rooms already, many of them in NAMA.

6000 square meter casino: Illegal.

Race course, dog-track: We have too many of these already.

Reproduction of the White House: WTF? Are you kidding me?

Golf course, equestrian center: no big deal.

Clearly the only interesting thing in here is the illegal casino, and much influence (rustle, rustle) is going to be brought to bear to make a 6000 square meter casino legal.

So business as usual for Lowry, no need for any cynicism at all.

Helium

" If you build it, they will come "

later12

jmayo wrote: »

So you find it daft when people question the siting of a gambling casino with big hotel in the ars*hole of nowhere and it is meant to attract tourists yet it is nowhere near a major airport.
Yeah the high rollers will fly into an airport 70 odd miles away.

No. I find it daft that people believe that such a thing would be build without a feasability study or an evaluation report. I find it hard to believe that financiers of any such project would not assess the risk, and that they would put their money into this (if they do) on a whim.

But even if they did it all on a whim, it is their money: their loss, or their gain., Oppose state involvement, that is fine, I am sure we all do. But there is a sense from reading these boards that any ambitious large scale private new venture is a bad one. Dell. GPCE. The Tipperary Project. I dont understand that.

And rather than being condescending about others posts, you might notice I mentioned that we need real entreprises not a half baked idea based on gambling.

Oh right, lets get rid of betting shops, horse racing, greyhounds, bingo and the lottery then.

later12

meglome wrote: »

Look I'm not against this being built, if people want to gamble then let them. And let's be straight we could do with modernising our gambling laws. However I'm not buying that this is the best location for it. That's all I'm saying, I'm not seeing how that is considered daft.

I am sure the financiers will take that on board.

Zubeneschamali

later10 wrote: »

But even if they did it all on a whim, it is their money: their loss, or their gain.

There are 83 hotels in NAMA right now, 54 of them in Leinster.

jmayo

later10 wrote: »

No. I find it daft that people believe that such a thing would be build without a feasability study or an evaluation report. I find it hard to believe that financiers of any such project would not assess the risk, and that they would put their money into this (if they do) on a whim.

Crazier things have happened or have you not noticed the number of white elephants around the place.

later10 wrote: »

But even if they did it all on a whim, it is their money: their loss, or their gain., Oppose state involvement, that is fine, I am sure we all do. But there is a sense from reading these boards that any ambitious large scale private new venture is a bad one. Dell. GPCE. The Tipperary Project. I dont understand that.

You see there you go again trying to lump everything and everyone together.
You are using the old ff, a party I believe you were rather find of, mantra that anyone that opposes something are anti development and anti enterprise.
Dell ????
What are you on about ?
Oh and FYI I would be pro nuclear power plant, so where would that fit in to your convenient synopsis that people who are anti this are anti everything ?

later10 wrote: »

Oh right, lets get rid of betting shops, horse racing, greyhounds, bingo and the lottery then.

Did I or anyone else here, ever say get rid of betting shops, horse racing, bingo, lottery etc ?

Are you on some mind altering substance at the moment ?

meglome

later10 wrote: »

I am sure the financiers will take that on board.

Well I hope they will. But I still haven't seen any convincing argument why Two-Mile-Borris is a good spot for this.

charlemont

Tipperary already has several dog tracks and horse racing courses, What we need here in Ireland is a large theme park like 6 Flags over NJ or Alton Towers with entertainment and night clubs attached.

later12

jmayo wrote: »

Crazier things have happened or have you not noticed the number of white elephants around the place.

Like I said, you could use this argument about pretty much any large scale investment. It is hard to support it when the venture is not seeking support from Irish banks, but there you go, dont let facts get in the way of opposition, and I am sure the backers of this process will not let keyboard antis get in the way of its support.

Did I or anyone else here, ever say get rid of betting shops, horse racing, bingo, lottery etc ?

I dont know... Are you opposed to gambling?

Are you on some mind altering substance at the moment ?

Unfortunately, no. I am afraid people really are opposed to this. I must not be imagining it.

later12

meglome wrote: »

Well I hope they will. But I still haven't seen any convincing argument why Two-Mile-Borris is a good spot for this.

Anything to do with it being very close to a major railway intersection, just over an hour from Shannon airport, with major scope for development, a local third level institution, and close to one of the foremost training establishments in global horseracing, who happen to support it

Soldie

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

8 storey hotel: we have too many hotel rooms already, many of them in NAMA.

6000 square meter casino: Illegal.

Race course, dog-track: We have too many of these already.

Reproduction of the White House: WTF? Are you kidding me?

Golf course, equestrian center: no big deal.

Clearly the only interesting thing in here is the illegal casino, and much influence (rustle, rustle) is going to be brought to bear to make a 6000 square meter casino legal.

So business as usual for Lowry, no need for any cynicism at all.

As I said in previous post, we should let the investors worry about the financial viability of this project. There are plenty of de facto casinos in Dublin already, and the fact that a "real" casino is illegal only tells me that our laws need modernising. Much of the cynicism seems to stem from the fact that Lowry is involved rather than anything else.

dan_d

later10 wrote: »

Not going to quote a particular response, because I find all of the last few responses equally daft. If someone is willing to give this a go, and particularly when he is backing his enterprise with foreign investment, I actually think it is slightly absurd that it is being knocked in this way. The suggestion that it wouild become a NAMA esque public liability is so spurious it does not even merit a mention - suffices to say, you could make the same argument for *any* large private investment.

From my point of view, it's not so much that, as they could start construction and end up in a position where the thing gets half built then work ceases. Could be due to any number of reasons - finance being withdrawn because casino licence not granted, finance being withdrawn for any other general reason....anything. Enterprise and investment is great, but this seems completely and totally over the top and unrealistic. I gather that they don't actually have permission for the whole thing, just for the race track and accompanying buildings for starters. Lowry was on the radio arguing that he was at the races in Mullingar last week and there wasn't a hotel room to be had. A fair point, but on the other hand, you have people using the "2000 abandoned horses" thing to illustrate the fall of the Celtic Tiger. I myself know people who breed and sell racehorses, and they are struggling and in serious debt right now, because they can't sell the horses they have - and haven't been able to for about 2 years now - because the market just isn't there anymore. One guy has invested deeply in a training set up and stables on his land and it's completely empty.

Setting that alongside the location - a small town in the middle of Ireland - people can be forgiven for thinking it's a nuts idea. It's not that we don't want innovation and job creation, it's more that this does not appear to be sustainable - assuming that the doors of the place ever even open. I for one have had more than enough of unsustainable industries in this country, and I just think we should have learned far more from the last decade than we appear to have learned. We don't need another half-built "we'll finish it when things pick up again" development. We're already trying to figure out what we're going to do with the ones we already have.

meglome

later10 wrote: »

Anything to do with it being very close to a major railway intersection, just over an hour from Shannon airport, with major scope for development, a local third level institution, and close to one of the foremost training establishments in global horseracing, who happen to support it

I was asking for convincing arguments for Two-Mile-Borris. What's going to happen with this location is people are going to drive in numbers from other parts of the country. Some people will fly in but the airports are all too far away and the public transport is currently rubbish. I think if they were serious about attracting foreign visitors there are many better locations.

ScubaSteve00

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

8 storey hotel: we have too many hotel rooms already, many of them in NAMA.

6000 square meter casino: Illegal.

Race course, dog-track: We have too many of these already.

Reproduction of the White House: WTF? Are you kidding me?

Golf course, equestrian center: no big deal.

Clearly the only interesting thing in here is the illegal casino, and much influence (rustle, rustle) is going to be brought to bear to make a 6000 square meter casino legal.

So business as usual for Lowry, no need for any cynicism at all.

And dont forget the concert hall which is deemed "unsuitable" for this development but the Walk in Acquarium and the replica of the White House are not

later12

dan_d wrote: »

From my point of view, it's not so much that, as they could start construction and end up in a position where the thing gets half built then work ceases. Could be due to any number of reasons - finance being withdrawn because casino licence not granted, finance being withdrawn for any other general reason....anything. Enterprise and investment is great, but this seems completely and totally over the top and unrealistic.

I still don't understand this I'm afraid - I can understand the above remarks explaining the possible disadvantages to the location, but even if the whole thing fails I don't see how it could be grounds for opposition. Do people here feel it appropriate to oppose private firms' expansions, based on feasability studies? Is there actually a basis for opposition even on the above grounds?

I myself know people who breed and sell racehorses, and they are struggling and in serious debt right now, because they can't sell the horses they have - and haven't been able to for about 2 years now - because the market just isn't there anymore. One guy has invested deeply in a training set up and stables on his land and it's completely empty.

Yes, I know a lot of people involved with horses too, and particularly in Tipperary where I'm from, and I haven't heard even a shred of opposition to this project from them. Thurles and Clonmel are failing fast, they are not bringing in punters as they should, and they are not responding to the changed climate in Irish racing. I think that a major racing project close to one of the most renowned training centres in the world could be an enormous boost to Irish racing - mainstream people don't want to come out on a Sunday evening to Paddy's half cob canter around a muddy track and expire on the last fence, that's your Cheltenham fan, or the man who goes point to pointing. A facility like this could provide a chance to see really serious horses in serious facilities that could eclipse even The Curragh, potentially, and be a major boost to Irish racing. I for one, think that would be a very welcome development.

Zulu

later10 wrote: »

What? Explain how this could cause financial armageddon?

We're currently undergoing the financial armageddon - I'm amazed you missed it, what with all the news coverage and all.

later12

Zulu wrote: »

We're currently undergoing the financial armageddon - I'm amazed you missed it, what with all the news coverage and all.

No - I'm talking about the association between this and the imminent ''armageddon'' - explain?

professore

Firstly, Las Vegas is in the middle of a desert. So the location argument doesn't hold water (pardon the pun).

Secondly, IF this is to succeed, it should be as loony mad insane as possible, like the real Las Vegas, not some half arsed effort. I reckon if done right, it could be a huge success. There's nothing like it in Europe.

That's what people don't seem to get here, they water things like this down until it's like the funfair in Father Ted and then people don't come, and then say "I told you so".

IF you put it in the middle of Dublin, then like everything else the Dubs will go and it's a real PITA for anyone outside the capital to get there. Anyway we should be looking at attracting tourists. Newsflash: tourists when finished gambling and drinking will WANT to see sheep and green fields and people in Aran sweaters, not latte drinking D4 types. The Chinese would love this. In fact I think we should go one further and legalise carefully regulated prostitution and dope in a zone in and around it too - guaranteed success then.

The country is broke - we need ideas people.

Zulu

later10 wrote: »

No - I'm talking about the association between this and the imminent ''armageddon'' - explain?

I'm not much interested in what you've misinterpreted from my post, but I'll indulge you. Firstly, the financial armageddon isn't imminent. Imminent would suggest it hasn't yet occurred.
Secondly, this is exactly the type of ill-conceived folly that got us where we are. You'd think we'd have learned something, but apparently some of us haven't. And I guess for others, a first preference vote for oneself is more important than the national interest in a time of crisis.

later12

Zulu wrote: »

this is exactly the type of ill-conceived folly that got us where we are. You'd think we'd have learned something, but apparently some of us haven't. And I guess for others, a first preference vote for oneself is more important than the national interest in a time of crisis.

You still aren't answering... how is this ''folly'' relevant to the discussion on financial armageddon - th.s is not a public venture, its financiers are not the Irish banking system.

I can remember, in recent years, clips of opposition to Knock airport, which was a significant project in the early 1980s, whereby people ridiculed it as an unnecessary loss-maker in a swamp. I don't know if this Tipperary venture is a loss maker in a swamp or not, and I don't see how any of you can be so sure without having had any access to the facts surrounding the venture or the feasability study.

professore

Zulu wrote: »

I'm not much interested in what you've misinterpreted from my post, but I'll indulge you. Firstly, the financial armageddon isn't imminent. Imminent would suggest it hasn't yet occurred.
Secondly, this is exactly the type of ill-conceived folly that got us where we are. You'd think we'd have learned something, but apparently some of us haven't. And I guess for others, a first preference vote for oneself is more important than the national interest in a time of crisis.

What's your solution then? If you have any better ideas we'd love to hear them - not saying this is the best idea in the world but it's an idea nonetheless.

Zulu

later10 wrote: »

You still aren't answering... how is this ''folly'' relevant to the discussion on financial armageddon - th.s is not a public venture,

It doesn't need to be a public venture to detrimentally impact public finances. This point was addressed earlier in the thread.

its financiers are not the Irish banking system.

Who are the financiers?

Zulu

professore wrote: »

What's your solution then?

Solution to what now? This thread is about the casino in the sticks, right?

If you have any better ideas we'd love to hear them - not saying this is the best idea in the world but it's an idea nonetheless.

A point to consider: bad ideas are NOT better than no ideas.

I've a few ideas around education, but I'm not about to hijack this thread with them.

professore

Secondly, this is exactly the type of ill-conceived folly that got us where we are. You'd think we'd have learned something, but apparently some of us haven't. And I guess for others, a first preference vote for oneself is more important than the national interest in a time of crisis.

Your solution to get us out of where we are. You imply you have learned something, please share it with the rest of us who haven't.

Aidan1

Knock airport, which was a significant project in the early 1980s, whereby people ridiculed it as an unnecessary loss-maker in a swamp.

Well, blanket bog, but apart from that, absolutely, it's an unnecessary loss maker, kept going by dint of the PSO routes and direct State Support. Exactly as the detractors said would happen. Same as the Western Railway Corridor too, as it happens.

Long thread about this over in Infrastructure, but, in short, if somebody wants to build another 5 star hotel and golf course in a country laden with bankrupt hotels with golf courses, off you go. If someone wants to build a racetrack in a county with 3 already, and with loads of more around the country strugging to stay going, off you go, it's not my money, and good luck trying to extract same from an Irish bank. Or any bank for that matter.

However, if someone wants to use the argument of 'jobs for the lads' in a rural area as a means of extracting a change in the gaming laws, sorry, but I call BS. The same goes for the venue - the location is over an hour from Limerick and Cork - about an hour and 15 in both cases in reality. There will be no shortage of venues in both of those locations - why would you allow someone to build one in the middle of nowhere? (Thankfully this is the one bit that didn't get planning).

Just because the State is in trouble economically doesn't mean we should be clutching at whatever straw is waved in the air by a group of developers on the make.

later12

Zulu wrote: »

It doesn't need to be a public venture to detrimentally impact public finances. This point was addressed earlier in the thread.
Who are the financiers?

The financiers are direct/ corporate foreign investors according to all the coverage, there is nothing at all to indicate otherwise.

Explain how it could detrimentally affect public finances - you keep returning to this point without actually backing it up or supporting it with any logical basis. I think this is the third time of asking.

professore

I say build it. Our boom involved building identical uninspired shoe boxes in places no-one wanted them at huge inflated prices. This is something different.

• Some wealthy people and foreign banks want to build this
• At the very least it will create construction and associated work for the locals
• It won't cost us anything
• If it fails completely it will make a nice tourist attraction
• If it succeeds it will make an even better tourist attraction
• It's positive news coming out of Ireland
• It will be a fun place for Enterprise Ireland to bring mutinational heads

Or we could just sit back and complain.