Avensis vs. Mazda 6?

jamesbil

Hi all, I`m in the market for a new(er) car.
I`m after a diesel estate between 06-07.

Been looking at either a 07 Mazda 6 ts with 80k or a 07 Avensis t3 x with the same. Both work out about the same price by the time they are home from the UK, bout €8.5k.
The Mazda is a bit cheaper to buy, but more to import.

Any thoughts on these? Or recommend another?
Will be getting rid of an 02 scenic if anyone is interested.

Thanks
James

-Corkie-

Forget about a Mazda diesel anway. That engine is seriously troublesome.

colm_mcm

I'd go with the Avensis.


Or something not on the list that was launched more recently

ShadowHearth

-Corkie- wrote: »

Forget about a Mazda diesel anway. That engine is seriously troublesome.

I love Mazda 6, but I would not touch mazda diesel.

-Corkie-

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I love Mazda 6, but I would not touch mazda diesel.

Same as that. I wouldnt be too keen on the Passat either unless its a late 07 as the early ones gave a lot of bother. Plenty of them in the UK.

jamesbil

Thanks for all that guys, leaning towards the avensis then!
what is the prob with the mazda diesel?
any thoughts on the vectra est? the 150hp one?

Esel

jamesbil wrote: »

what is the prob with the mazda diesel?

Do a search of this forum. Or PM GalwayTT.

jamesbil

mondeo or passat also an option, anything super reliable really!

Leonard Hofstadter

If petrol, then Mazda every time, to be honest I'm not even sure why you're considering a car that is vastly inferior?

However, if you're after a diesel, then I'd run a million miles away from a Mazda - those engines are absolutely appalling for reliability.

If you're looking for a diesel OP, then a Mondeo is probably the best option. The Honda Accord is more expensive but it is without a shadow of a doubt the most reliable diesel engined family car out there.

johnos1984

captainspeed wrote: »

The Honda Accord is more expensive but it is without a shadow of a doubt the most reliable diesel engined family car out there.

Have you anything to back that up?

-Corkie-

johnos1984 wrote: »

Have you anything to back that up?

How will I put it but the less evidence the better John. I have yet to see threads with people complaining about them giving problems. The Passat and a few more come up here regularly..:)

jamesbil

got to be a diesel, what i need is , reliable, bit of power, tough enough for kids inside, and not going to fall apart on mayo roads!
was thinking avensis as my bro-inlaw has one which he really abuses, never services and has put over 170k on it without bother. (i will be servicing whatever i get!)
Which mondeo? newer one looks alot better!
Thinking too of stretching the wallet for an 08, surely better resale in the future because of the emission based tax?

All this input is welcomed and appreciated!
Thanks
James

johnos1984

-Corkie- wrote: »

How will I put it but the less evidence the better John. I have yet to see threads with people complaining about them giving problems. The Passat and a few more come up here regularly..:)

I've read a few times in various forums that the Honda unit isn't bullet proof. I can't remember specifics and I think it was the earlier models affected

-Corkie-

johnos1984 wrote: »

I've read a few times in various forums that the Honda unit isn't bullet proof. I can't remember specifics and I think it was the earlier models affected

I cant remember either but Honda stood over the defect iirc.

grantk2

I'm also in the market for a diesel estate and have been looking around.
I have my eye on an 08 Passat, but after reading some reviews on whatcar website i'm starting to have doubts... although i've already put the deposit down..

i wanted to go for an octavia... but my wife wasnt pushed on it... they dont look as good inside or out, but from what i've read and discussed with mechanics.. its the most reliable out there... although because the name is now good, they arent any cheaper..

stevenmu

-Corkie- wrote: »

I cant remember either but Honda stood over the defect iirc.

I know the earlier Civics with the same engine had DMF problems (more than standard for DMFs), and I believe Honda covered many and goodwilled others.

Leonard Hofstadter

jamesbil wrote: »

was thinking avensis as my bro-inlaw has one which he really abuses, never services and has put over 170k on it without bother.

The diesel is very reliable, but the car is deathly dull! It is not a bad car by any measure of means, but it is just very average, when there are others, such as the trusty Ford Mondeo that are much nicer to drive, have nicer interiors, are quieter, have better spec, etc. The Honda Accord offers Japanese reliablility but is just a better car.

Other cars are as reliable as it but do it so much better. I would expect that other cars would be cheaper as well, as Irish people are totally brainwashed into thinking that Toyotas are much better than other cars out there (even though nothing could be further from the truth).

In relation to the Honda diesel, yes it is not as reliable as a VTEC petrol but diesels are not as good as petrols anyway - as diesels go, Honda's i-CTDI is renowed for being an excellent engine.

TheAnswer

captainspeed wrote: »

but diesels are not as good as petrols anyway

Ja reckon? that's a sweeping statement, are you referring to Hondas diesel not being as good as their petrols or all diesels not being as good as petrols?

TheAnswer

-Corkie- wrote: »

How will I put it but the less evidence the better John. I have yet to see threads with people complaining about them giving problems. The Passat and a few more come up here regularly..:)

It's all about numbers Corkie, probably thousands of times more VAG diesels sold in Ireland than Honda's so you can't possibly base your statement on the number of comments on boards. that's like saying more people are killed on the roads of the US than Ireland so therfore the US's roads must be more dangerous (statistically that's possibly true but you know what I mean).

-Corkie-

TheAnswer wrote: »

It's all about numbers Corkie, probably thousands of times more VAG diesels sold in Ireland than Honda's so you can't possibly base your statement on the number of comments on boards. that's like saying more people are killed on the roads of the US than Ireland so therfore the US's roads must be more dangerous (statistically that's possibly true but you know what I mean).

Thats true I suppose I have had many Passats myself but an Accord seems to be a much more reliable car. Knowing my luck if I bought one the thing would fall apart..

pajo1981

There were a bunch of guys on here complaining about cracked manifolds and dodgy ECUs on the honda diesel a while back.

jamesbil

so which mondeo? the newer model, but which engine? the 1,8d or the 2.0d?
are the tdci engines beter now? i had major trouble with a dci scenic, guys at corry eng. said all dci, tdci have delphi stuff which fails alot, their yard was full to prove it. (they provide a great service btw!)

read that the avensis suspension was tweaked in 06 with the higher power chain engine to give a better drive.

Again thanks for all the info.

MugMugs

08 Avensis 2.0 good car. No DMF issues either as it doesnt have one.

Beware however if it's a UK import then it wont have the Toyota Rough Road Pack put onto ROI cars.

Mazda Diesels are notorious for unreliability.

jamesbil

Might seem like a silly q, but what is DMF and Toyota Rough Road Pack?

johnos1984

jamesbil wrote: »

Might seem like a silly q, but what is DMF and Toyota Rough Road Pack?

The DMF is part of the clutch and helps to make them more refined in diesels but it is prone to failing.

Rough road package just means the suspension is raised 40 mm (?) and is designed for our roads and other countries where they are poor road surfaces, think Afganistan and you get the idea.

TBH not having the rough road package is a bonus as it improves handling a lot

MugMugs

johnos1984 wrote: »

TBH not having the rough road package is a bonus as it improves handling a lot

Completely agree however this is mainly true to semi decent roads and Motorways etc etc...

I was in Mayo recently and good god it was a bumpy ride !

MarkR

I've no road pack. Don't think it's that bad, and I've 17's on.

johnos1984

MarkR wrote: »

I've no road pack. Don't think it's that bad, and I've 17's on.

That would indicate you have no suspension

irishh_bob

-Corkie- wrote: »

Forget about a Mazda diesel anway. That engine is seriously troublesome.

i thought a mazda was baschically a ford ?

Zubeneschamali

irishh_bob wrote: »

i thought a mazda was baschically a ford ?

No, Mazda did their own turbodiesel, and it's rubbish.

Ford are buying in Peugeot-Citroen's diesels these days.

bazz26

I thought the Rough Road pack was only on the current Irish spec Avensis?

Leonard Hofstadter

Haven't Toyota been fitting the rough road pack on Irish spec cars for donkey's years?

As far as I know, the Irish spec Carina Es were 15 mm higher off the ground than the UK ones because ours have the rough road pack fitted.

It is interesting to hear that models without the rough road pack are better to drive, I would have thought the rough road pack should make our cars better than the regular Toyotas to drive, or at the very least more comfortable over bumps than UK models? The Mk3 Avensis is dire over the bumps anyway, worse than its predecessor so if this is the first one with the rough road pack, then this is a step backwards.

The last time I remember a UK publication saying that a Toyota handled well was when they used to sell interesting cars like the Celica.

MugMugs

captainspeed wrote: »

Haven't Toyota been fitting the rough road pack on Irish spec cars for donkey's years?

They have and they still are

captainspeed wrote: »

It is interesting to hear that models without the rough road pack are better to drive, I would have thought the rough road pack should make our cars better than the regular Toyotas to drive,

UK Car being lower down, would this not make her more agile on corners etc ?

captainspeed wrote: »

The last time I remember a UK publication saying that a Toyota handled well was when they used to sell interesting cars like the Celica.

For a long wheel base car, it's okay but in General like most Saloons it handles like a Boat, IMO

Leonard Hofstadter

Well yes the fact that the UK models are lower down should make them handle better in theory but surely the whole point of a rough road pack is that it is supposed to make the car drive better over the usual back roads found in this country?

Toyotas are exceptionally light on the road and have steering that is utterly deviod of feel (and I've driven several of them and they all have that awful feeling of nothingness to them - a shame as I rather like Toyota engines when they're not burning lots of oil - which of course the VVTis love to do as the miles pile on). Even a car as large as the Avensis gets blown about by cross winds - a feeling I'd rather not experience! The fact that the Paddy spec models are higher off the ground probably doesn't help that feeling of lightness on a motorway either.

I don't think every Toyota has the rough road pack either - the current model Auris Terra and Aura have lower suspension for the diesels (by 10 mm) and this is one of the reasons they are in VRT band A. I heard that it is only the main models, like the Yaris, Auris/Corolla and Avensis that they go to the bother of fitting the rough road pack for - stuff like the Versos, the LandCruiser, iQ, Urban Cruiser etc has the same suspension as the rest of Europe.

johnos1984

The Auris has it on all models.

I've driven a UK and Irish model back to back and the difference is noticeable the UK models being better on a counts............just the auld fella's who buy them wouldn't like it

jamesbil

Ok, much reading later and its now between the avensis d and the mondeo d!!!
Seems like very few probs with the toyota but cant find much about the newer mondeo (07-08), any big issues?

Let me tell you why all the debate...
last 3 cars; 98 1.6 scenic, head gasket
98 318 tds, piston rings, turbo, most front suspension, exhaust
04 1.5 dci scenic, injectors, pump, tank, then written off 9 mths later!
not to mention all the bushes, links, rod ends etc

This time i need to have something reliable and trouble free!!!

Leonard Hofstadter

The Mondeo had some electrical issues at the start but these have been well sorted out now.

The Mondeo should prove to be a very reliable proposition. Speaking from a personal experience, Toyota reliability is not what it used to be.

Leonard Hofstadter

MugMugs wrote: »

08 Avensis 2.0 good car. No DMF issues either as it doesnt have one.

They most certainly do have a DMF, indeed the earlier versions of the Mk2 Avensis (with the older D-4D engine) are well known for DMF failure.

What they don't have is a DPF, another thing the OP shouldn't want a car to have ! (DPF = diesel particle filter)

MugMugs

captainspeed wrote: »

They most certainly do have a DMF, indeed the earlier versions of the Mk2 Avensis (with the older D-4D engine) are well known for DMF failure.

What they don't have is a DPF, another thing the OP shouldn't want a car to have ! (DPF = diesel particle filter)

Apologies OP. CS is correct.

jamesbil

why wouldnt want a DPF?

Also looking to keep for 3+ yrs and about 100k on what ever car I get.
would a mondeo 1.8d with 90 k miles be up to this? or would the 2.0d be better?

Zubeneschamali

jamesbil wrote: »

why wouldnt want a DPF?

A diesel particulate filter is a gubbins added to diesels to get them through the latest anti-pollution laws. If you do not drive the car the way the DPF thinks you should, it will clog up. If you don't clear it, it will need replacing, and cost you €1000 plus.

DPF's hate short trips in town. You need to do at least 20 minutes at 100 km/hr or better at least once a week to keep a DPF happy.

R.O.R

jamesbil wrote: »

why wouldnt want a DPF?

Also looking to keep for 3+ yrs and about 100k on what ever car I get.
would a mondeo 1.8d with 90 k miles be up to this? or would the 2.0d be better?

If you are going for the Mondeo, avoid the 1.8 125ps as it's horrible to drive, and bordering on dangerous until you get used to the hole in the torque curve. The 100ps version is actually better to drive. The 2.0Td is the one to go for.

No real issues with the engines, but I've just checked the history of a couple of 07 high milers we have/had. One had Flywheel and Slave cylinder at 125,000km, then the full clutch at 150,000km, other one had the full clutch at 160,000km. The clutch is not a cheap job on the Mondeo - over €1,000. Think the front subframe has to be dropped to get at the clutch/gearbox, so it's a lot of labour.

Timing belt at 160,000km is a fairly cheap job, so wouldn't worry about that, but if you can find one that's had the timing belt and clutch done recently, it should be good for another 100,000miles ish.

jamesbil

Great info thanks!
Been pricing import on a mondeo and am coming up with different co2, various sites say the 2.0d is 139 co2, vrt says its 156, how do i know which is correct?

Leonard Hofstadter

The Mondeo 2.0 TDCi started at 156 CO2, then moved to 154 (band C for VRT - €302 rather than €447 tax) in early 2009, then last year they brought in a 139 version (before the facelift I might add!) which was available in 115, 140 and 163 PS power outputs (at this point the 1.8 TDCi was finally replaced). The 156 and 154 CO2 versions are 140 PS only.

The only way you'll know OP is what the tax disc says - the UK also does CO2 based taxation so be sure to check what the CO2 rating!

The 2.0 TDCi in the Mk4 is better for reliability than the Mk3, as it is a different engine (Peugeot rather than Ford designed), so there is no reason to worry about injectors in the Mk4 model! Aside from the clutch being an absolute pig of a job to do in one of them (didn't realise the Mk4 is just as bad as the previous generations but you learn something new every day!), I can't think of anything negative reliability wise concerning those cars. The Toyota will also be reliable but IMHO the Mondeo is just a nicer car to look at, to be in, and especially to drive and that is why I would strongly recommend you choose the Ford.

jamesbil

definitely leaning that way leaning that way captainspeed! tho if an avensis came up at the right price would go for it.
prob is finding a new shape 2.od mondeo with respectable mileage all the uk ones seem to be 1.8 with 90+ on them, may end up getting a 07 2.0 new shape but with lower miles.

jamesbil

this?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201124390961850/sort/priceasc/usedcars/fuel-type/diesel/maximum-mileage/up_to_100000_miles/body-type/estate/price-to/6000/maximum-age/up_to_4_years_old/model/mondeo/make/ford/page/2/postcode/bt39jp/radius/1500?logcode=p

Leonard Hofstadter

jamesbil wrote: »

definitely leaning that way leaning that way captainspeed! tho if an avensis came up at the right price would go for it.
prob is finding a new shape 2.od mondeo with respectable mileage all the uk ones seem to be 1.8 with 90+ on them, may end up getting a 07 2.0 new shape but with lower miles.

If you can afford it, try and get an 08 as you will have the lower tax and therefore it will be more desirable when you want to sell it. If you could find a 154 CO2 model that would be better still as it will be easier to shift and you will pay less VRT when importing it!

Surprising to hear there are lots of 1.8s in the UK, the UK normally like cars with more powerful engines and higher specs than we do:)!

jamesbil wrote: »

this?



http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201124390961850/sort/priceasc/usedcars/fuel-type/diesel/maximum-mileage/up_to_100000_miles/body-type/estate/price-to/6000/maximum-age/up_to_4_years_old/model/mondeo/make/ford/page/2/postcode/bt39jp/radius/1500?logcode=p

That is a bottom of the range LX (or whatever they call it across the water - I think they call them Edges over there), I would try and find at least a Zetec. Estates are less desirable in Ireland secondhand than a hatchback or especially a saloon (impossible to find a saloon in the UK though - Ford don't even sell them as saloons over there now!), so unless you absolutely have to buy one, I would try to avoid the Estate. I appreciate that price is a concern but a Zetec should only be marginally more expensive. There is nothing wrong with that car but the spec is too basic for my liking!

jamesbil

would have thought this spec was ok!
so many options tho!!!

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/equipment/Detail.aspx?deriv=37002#amount=20609&years=3

jamesbil

so i started this thread looking at a mazda estate, now im considering a c-max diesel!
and i thought i had it really narrowed down!

any thoughts on this as a family car?
I had wanted to get away from the mpv type after having 3 scenics, which is why i was after a n estate, but they afe so hard to get with the right mileage.
one of the things putting me off the mpv is the poor handling, is the cmax any better?
looking at an 08, either a1.6d zetec or a 2.0 zetec.

Thanks again all.

Zubeneschamali

jamesbil wrote: »

any thoughts on this as a family car?

I doesn't suit me, as I have 3 kids. The C-Max's clever flexible seating trick is that it turns into a 4 seater with no boot.

Whose bright idea was that?

jamesbil

still looking!!!
any of you got a new shape mondeo?
I found a 2008 2.0tdci edge, 140hp with 99k miles on,
vrt says its 139 co2 but tax says its 156
Anyone know which it is?
would you mind a mondeo with this mileage?

Thanks all
james