Alternatives to jail ?

crackcrack30

Seriously, wasnt jail devised in a different era when it went hand in hand with hunger, disease, cold and isolation within the high walls.
I think someone has lost the manual along the way...this version of punishment dosent seem to be working in this centuary......cc30

enda1

Agreed gaol is a bit outdated. What do you propose though?

biko

So what do you suggest?

scudzilla

Alternatives to Jail?? Send 'em to Wales

ball

Australia?

DrumSteve

Blast them with piss I suppose.

Dravokivich

We could partition Cork and send'em all there?

Ya know like in Escape from New Angeles.

Seachmall

I don't think jail is an effective punishment nor do I think it should be.

I view jail as an inefficient way to keep scumbags off our streets. I personally think we should ship 'em all to a remote island somewhere.

If they disregard the rules of a society they should no longer be accepted in that society, letting them out of jail is cutting them slack which I don't think they deserve.

That's for career criminals, people who genuinely make mistakes (out of carelessness or whatever) or aren't necessarily career criminals (e.g. once off fight that resulted in a death) or scumbags (pot smokers, graffiti artists) should be put to work cleaning our streets and what-not.

crackcrack30

.. Maybe send one of our civil servants from the Justice dept. down to equador, turkey, or china to get a copy of their manual..
there's no deterrant in jail time for the current scum thats rapidly expanding into every town,street and neighbourhood.........

ejmaztec

We should have "adopto-crim", where we can choose a psycho-axe-murdering-fuckwit to live in each of our houses.

They can do the cooking, cleaning and shopping, and also take care of unwanted door-knockers.

Dravokivich

crackcrack30 wrote: »

.. Maybe send one of our civil servants from the Justice dept. down to equador, turkey, or china to get a copy of their manual..
there's no deterrant in jail time for the current scum thats rapidly expanding into every town,street and neighbourhood.........

Execute'em, bill the family for the bullet.

mgmt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HnK24eYK0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeiGfjcVyR8

cosmicfart

Space Shuttle to Mars ie Ghost of Mars film with Ice Cube :cool:

Dangerous Man

Nope - jail works fine. Just need to make sure the right people are in there, and for a suitable amount of time.

Oh, and take their tellies away.

jimthemental

There is no foolproof alternative, even the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. At least jail gets some scum off the streets for a while and some do /upskill and go back to society with a better contribution than many of the posters here.

zeusnero

Dravokivich wrote: »

We could partition Cork and send'em all there?

that's a good idea short term, but in the long term - with all the kick ass great times they'd be after having there - no one would want to leave and it'd get overcrowded

jimthemental

Seachmall wrote: »

I don't think jail is an effective punishment nor do I think it should be.

I view jail as an inefficient way to keep scumbags off our streets. I personally think we should ship 'em all to a remote island somewhere.

If they disregard the rules of a society they should no longer be accepted in that society, letting them out of jail is cutting them slack which I don't think they deserve.

That's for career criminals, people who genuinely make mistakes (out of carelessness or whatever) or aren't necessarily career criminals (e.g. once off fight that resulted in a death) or scumbags (pot smokers, graffiti artists) should be put to work cleaning our streets and what-not.

We did that with Spike Island in Haulbowline and the crims took it over, disaster. We should upgrade Achaill to a penal colony for a while and see how it turns out.

beglopty

Seachmall wrote: »

I don't think jail is an effective punishment nor do I think it should be.

I view jail as an inefficient way to keep scumbags off our streets. I personally think we should ship 'em all to a remote island somewhere.

If they disregard the rules of a society they should no longer be accepted in that society, letting them out of jail is cutting them slack which I don't think they deserve.

That's for career criminals, people who genuinely make mistakes (out of carelessness or whatever) or aren't necessarily career criminals (e.g. once off fight that resulted in a death) or scumbags (pot smokers, graffiti artists) should be put to work cleaning our streets and what-not.

Really? You kill someone and you're only sent street cleaning with a guy who drew a picture on a wall? Ridiculous.

Seachmall

Dravokivich wrote: »

We could partition Cork and send'em all there?

But where would we send all the Corkonians? I don't want to be mixing with that lot!

liah

Honestly think there should be a bigger focus in most Western countries on finding a way to make the prisoners give back, e.g. tiered (according to offense) work programs, plus more focus on rehabilitating low-level criminals (depending on circumstance).

Make them do something productive for us while they're in there and repay their debt to society. Lightens the tax load, too, if they're doing stuff like roads - you don't have to pay prisoners.

I'm not sure why this practice is so uncommon now. Human rights groups must've gotten at it or something, used to be much more popular even 50 years ago.

sollar

Floggings in the town square

lucylu

How about having them shoveling sh*t in sewers....oh wait

crackcrack30

Do they or their depandants loose any state benifits (or payouts i.e Dole)
when their inside? Probibly get additional support.......



(They can order takeaway ffs)

Seachmall

beglopty wrote: »

Really? You kill someone and you're only sent street cleaning with a guy who drew a picture on a wall? Ridiculous.

I think we should punish people based on their intentions (i.e. how much of a threat to society they are).

If someone kills someone because they aren't paying attention to the road whilst driving their threat to society is due to carelessness, which can be dealt with without destroying their life.

In the same manner I think if someone intends to kill someone but fails they should be treated no differently than if they had succeeded.

Dravokivich

zeusnero wrote: »

that's a good idea short term, but in the long term - with all the kick ass great times they'd be after having there - no one would want to leave and it'd get overcrowded

The idea is they don't, ya know like in them movies I mentioned :P

Seachmall wrote: »

But where would we send all the Corkonians? I don't want to be mixing with that lot!

Sacrificed, sorry.

liah wrote: »

I'm not sure why this practice is so uncommon now. Human rights groups must've gotten at it or something, used to be much more popular even 50 years ago.

I recon trade unions and competitive market rabble rabble would be the main reasons behind it more so, well ahead of cheap/slave labour anyway.

smokedeels

http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/zod.jpg ?

Spunge

That cryo thing in demolition man worked out pretty well..... i think.

iamstop

I've been to very low crime places like Tokyo (People mark their seats in restaurants by leaving the phone on the table when they go to the toilet) and Singapore (Low crime does not mean no crime!) is a typical poster you may see about.
They seem to both use a mix of honor, pride, fear and shame to keep people inline. Oh and the cane. you get lashed in Singapore for serious crimes.

Fluorescence

Prison IS effective when used properly, hand in hand with hard labour and thorough rehabilitation. If they won't agree to whatever rehab is on offer then they remain imprisoned for longer (depending on crime). A prison cell should have 4 walls, a loo and a bed to sleep on, and that's it.

Seachmall

fluorescence wrote: »

A prison cell should have 4 walls, a loo and a bed to sleep on, and that's it.

Surprisingly the cell I was in in Mountjoy didn't even have a functional toilet. There was a 'pisspot' under the bed instead.





And by "cell I was in" I'm referring to a school trip in TY

beglopty

Seachmall wrote: »

I think we should punish people based on their intentions (i.e. how much of a threat to society they are).

If someone kills someone because they aren't paying attention to the road whilst driving their threat to society is due to carelessness, which can be dealt with without destroying their life.

In the same manner I think if someone intends to kill someone but fails they should be treated no differently than if they had succeeded.

I think a lot of people who have lost someone on the roads may think differently. Also, it would be negligence rather than carelessness that brought about the death. Something which should be punished by time away.

scudzilla

Been in the news this week that the European Court of Human Rights are trying to stop the practice of Slopping out as it's inhumane.

IT'S FCUKIN PRISON, IT AINT SUPPOSED TO BE CUSHY

Badgermonkey

Gaol.

Seachmall

beglopty wrote: »

I think a lot of people who have lost someone on the roads may think differently.

Of course they would and it's an unfortunate situation for all involved however I don't think the grieving are the best people to decide what is justice and what isn't. Justice should be blind and balanced, that's difficult to be whilst grieving.

Chuck Stone

liah wrote: »

Honestly think there should be a bigger focus in most Western countries on finding a way to make the prisoners give back, e.g. tiered (according to offense) work programs, plus more focus on rehabilitating low-level criminals (depending on circumstance).

Make them do something productive for us while they're in there and repay their debt to society. Lightens the tax load, too, if they're doing stuff like roads - you don't have to pay prisoners.

I'm not sure why this practice is so uncommon now. Human rights groups must've gotten at it or something, used to be much more popular even 50 years ago.

Doesn't putting people to work in this way stifle entrepreneurial endeavour and is a hinderance to creating jobs and wealth?

liah

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Doesn't putting people to work in this way stifle entrepreneurial endeavour and is a hinderance to creating jobs and wealth?

Only if you've a prison population like America does, imo.

If they put them to work on roads and other tax-funded projects, I can only see it lightening the overall tax burden on people because it would go towards the ridiculous amount of money that's spent on keeping criminals in prison.

I mean, it's not exactly something I've looked into a whole lot, so I'm sure there's a reason - but as far as I can see it wouldn't do a significant amount of damage to entrepreneurs/job creation/wealth. Most jobs for the general public aren't created in government/tax-funded manual labour as far as I'm aware. What's stopping anyone from creating jobs in that scenario, can you be more specific?

minidazzler

Seachmall wrote: »

That's for career criminals, people who genuinely make mistakes (out of carelessness or whatever) or aren't necessarily career criminals (e.g. once off fight that resulted in a death) or scumbags (pot smokers, graffiti artists) should be put to work cleaning our streets and what-not.

Wait, smoking pot and being an artist makes you a scumbag now?

Seachmall

minidazzler wrote: »

Wait, smoking pot and being an artist makes you a scumbag now?

That's supposed to read as

[...] aren't necessarily career criminals or scumbags [...]

As in "not career criminals" and "not scumbags". The brackets make it a little more difficult to read that way though .

languagenerd

Jail just isn't as much a deterrent as it used to be - TVs, etc. For lesser crimes or once-off offenders, just being locked away from society and one's family may be punishment enough, but when you look at the amount of repeat offenders out there, the prospect of being sent to jail clearly doesn't scare them.

For people who have committed serious crimes or repeatedly committed lesser crimes, prison should involve having only the very basic human rights - shelter, basic food, healthcare - and hard labour.
People who have committed lesser crimes (fraud, minor vandalism, petty theft on one occasion etc.) could do community service instead though - 6 weeks picking up rubbish or renovating parks or whatever could prove better than a month behind bars.

One of the main perks of jails though, is that it keeps criminals away from the general public. I wouldn't want an alternative to prison in the case of murderers, sex offenders etc.

Guy:Incognito

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Seriously, wasnt jail devised in a different era when it went hand in hand with hunger, disease, cold and isolation within the high walls.
I think someone has lost the manual along the way...this version of punishment dosent seem to be working in this centuary......cc30

They need to bring back the hunger, cold and isolation.

Guy:Incognito

minidazzler wrote: »

Wait, smoking pot and being an artist makes you a scumbag now?

Drawing pictures on other peoples property is not "being an artist"

Chuck Stone

liah wrote: »

If they put them to work on roads and other tax-funded projects... as far as I can see it wouldn't do a significant amount of damage to entrepreneurs/job creation/wealth.

These jobs and projects can be tendered and built and managed by private companies creating jobs and wealth - this is fairly common way of road building AFAIK.

I can only see it lightening the overall tax burden on people because it would go towards the ridiculous amount of money that's spent on keeping criminals in prison.

I agree that the prison costs are big problem and seem to create their own self-perpetuating momentum.

I think ending the war on drugs would be a good start. I'd be concerned thst finding things for prisoners to do is dangerous in that it could contribute to criminalising people for vitimless crimes. (We have a big road to build so were gonna need more strong young men in jail). Aslo, wouldn't the costs of seurity negate any benefit?

I mean, it's not exactly something I've looked into a whole lot,

Me niether! I'm just expressing a concern tbh.

Seachmall

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Drawing pictures on other peoples property is not "being an artist"

It makes you a criminal but being a criminal is not contradictory to being an artist.

They're artists and criminals.

Guy:Incognito

Chuck Stone wrote: »

These jobs and projects can be tendered and built and managed by private companies creating jobs and wealth - this is fairly common way of road building AFAIK.

Use them as fertilizer for the medians and verges.

Guy:Incognito

Seachmall wrote: »

It makes you a criminal but being a criminal is not contradictory to being an artist.

They're artists and criminals.

If they want to be artists then they should buy their own canvasses. Will they spray paint their parents houses or their own when they buy one?

Seachmall

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If they want to be artists then they should buy their own canvasses. Will they spray paint their parents houses or their own when they buy one?

Understanding and choosing a medium is an important part of art and I think public (or private) property is a valid choice (in an artistic sense, not a legal or even moral one).

Pauleta

If i were leader of the nation, my idea of prison would be people chained to walls in the pitch dark 24/7, with a loaf of bread and some water as their daily rations. I would also have Guantanamo Bay style prisons for lesser offenders and well behaved prisoners.

Chuck Stone

Pauleta wrote: »

If i were leader of the nation, my idea of prison would be people chained to walls in the pitch dark 24/7, with a loaf of bread and some water as their daily rations. I would also have Guantanamo Bay style prisons for lesser offenders and well behaved prisoners.

With this attitude I reckon it would be highly likely that you'd end up in one.

EarlERizer

Seachmall wrote: »

I don't think jail is an effective punishment nor do I think it should be.

I view jail as an inefficient way to keep scumbags off our streets. I personally think we should ship 'em all to a remote island somewhere.

If they disregard the rules of a society they should no longer be accepted in that society, letting them out of jail is cutting them slack which I don't think they deserve.

That's for career criminals, people who genuinely make mistakes (out of carelessness or whatever) or aren't necessarily career criminals (e.g. once off fight that resulted in a death) or scumbags (pot smokers, graffiti artists) should be put to work cleaning our streets and what-not.

:rolleyes: Fail!!! In your sanctimonious attempt to come across as a civilised member of society you've highlighted your own ignorance with your above definitions.

Jail is a very efficient way of segregating criminals from the rest of the population, the failing is the system, the laws & the law makers and the softy soft approach to criminals.

Unfortunately, here in the real world,we live in a time were we're controlled by criminals in power (our own fault-we vote for them), with this comes a trickle down effect, you see, if you treat people like animals over a period of time,pretty soon they begin to act like them, the result been you reap what you sow.

That said, we are way too soft on people who break the law,however, those who make the laws and those who enforce them need to remember they are not above the law themselves.

Personally I think the politically correct world we live in today has supressed our ability to deter people from breaking the law but the contradiction is the law enforcers turn on the frustrated ordinary decent people when they've had enough and begin to voice their concerns by way of protests, forgetting they are employed to protect the people not keep them in check.

"you don't need a hammer to crack a nut" as they say, but swiping at one with a feather is of no help either!

:rolleyes:Sure none of whats been said before will matter once we're all supressed by the gathering authoritarian governments of our incoming Orwellian era...... we'll all be treated the same save for the elite few.

rednik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSA

Pi^2

Cryopreservation - freeze them!