Ireland's Greatest Tee-shock

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Hello,

So who, in your opinion, was ireland's greatest tee-shock. Was it Eammon De Valera? Or Bertie Ahern? Or Jonah Lomu?

One of them wasn't acutally a teeshock, guess which one.

In my fictional ireland, Michael Scofield is the teeshock of ireland. He rules with a benevolant iron fist.

But really, I guess Sean Lemass was pretty excellent. He looked like the priest in father ted who had a very boring voice. Also, a little like vincent price.

Biggins

I would have said Lemass myself as he appears to have been the last great man (besides the late Mr Fitzgerald whom I would put second on such a list) of honesty and integrity in striving to do the right thing for the state and for the people of Ireland.

RachaelVO

I seen Tee, I thought golf!

pragmatic1

Probably Sean Lemass. Dev done a lot of good but also harm.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I liked Garrett Fitzgerald the most as a person, although he wasn't an entirely good Taoiseach.

RachaelVO

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I liked Garrett Fitzgerald the most as a person, although he wasn't an entirely good Taoiseach.

Yeah, me too. I think he always tried to do the honourable thing! He didn't get it all right I agree, but compared to what was before and after him, he certainly tried his best to do right by the country!

Laois_Man

Enda Kenny!

I'm an optimist!

iamwhoiam

I wonder would there be any contest for the worst one ?

Best one ? Gareth Fitzgerald .

The Princess Bride

Greatest ?

He's not born yet and his mother is dead:rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone

None of them have been great shakes tbh... Dev for keeping us out of the war maybe.

Badgermonkey

One owned an island, the other had his own tunnel.

Bond villains.

cosmicfart

Is this about Golf?

telekon

Racking my brain here...doesn't help that the most crooked, inept and useless political party in the western world have been in power for 61 of the last 79 years. :mad:

policarp

Brian Cowan was the best singing Tee shock next to Albert Reynolds.
But Bertie was the best two faced Tee shock next to Charlie Heehaw...

Princess Peach

RachaelVO wrote: »

I seen Tee, I thought golf!

I thought I was gonna see some kind of killer tee-shirt!

RachaelVO

Princess Peach wrote: »

I thought I was gonna see some kind of killer tee-shirt!

We've all been misled greatly, DAM YOU OP!!!

steelcityblues

Who was the least incompetent, should be the question.

Biggins

steelcityblues wrote: »

Who was the least incompetent, should be the question.

Easy. Lemass.

telekon

steelcityblues wrote: »

Who was the least incompetent, should be the question.

Oh, in that case i would have to say John A Costello...even after considering the fact that he declared the Irish Republic during a drunken hissy-fit in Canada. Gotta love the Irish....*hic*

mikemac

WT Cosgrave wasn't a Taoiseach but he did a fine job

Good vision too with Ardnacrushna, largest hydro electric plant in the world at the time.
And then rural electrification

Nevermind_

Has to be Sean Lemass for trying to drag the country kicking and screaming into the 20th century.

However TK Whitaker deserves alot of recognition for formulating most of the economic policies which Lemass gets credited for.

barbarians

Lemass
Fitzgerald
De Valera
Lynch
Costello
Cosgrave
Bruton
Reynolds
Cowen
Ahern
Haughey


That's how I would rate them but I'm no political expert. Too early to rate Enda yet but you could nearly put him ahead of Charlie, Bertie and Biffo by default

Seloth

Enda only started but has so far broken many promises with his answer being the last government caused it(Despite they saying they'd fix it with those promises).He's only started though so we'll see in the long run.

Behind the scenes Cowen did do work and in the past he did good work...But as a front man and a minister of Finances he really fecked up.

Bertie was a man of the people but jumped a sinking ship and ignored many warnings.He was the perfect early to mid Celtic tiger politician but it should have changed hands near the end when the ignored warnings came in.

I was too young to remember John Bruton and is not to long n the past too be in the History books so dont know enough about him.

But as of History lessons Sean Lemass and Garret Fitz did do allot...but again as its been quite a while since they were in power we've had time to overlook them truly.

But people have to remember that each taoisach in Ireland works through very different climates so theres no real fair way to justify them.

Tbh though any Irish politician in very recent history will never be seen in good light as their accomplishments are forgotten but every mistake is remembered.(Thats not in reference to any one in particular,its in reference to all of them in the common public eye...both past,present and future)

orourkeda

mikemac wrote: »

WT Cosgrave wasn't a Taoiseach but he did a fine job

Good vision too with Ardnacrushna, largest hydro electric plant in the world at the time.
And then rural electrification

Wait, they have have electricity in Leitrim?

Johro

Laois_Man wrote: »

Enda Kenny!

I'm an optimist!

Holy crap.

dfx-

Lynch

Kojak

policarp wrote: »

Brian Cowan was the best singing Tee shock next to Albert Reynolds.

Yeah, but did Reynolds get his face plastered all over US prime time tv?

KnifeWRENCH

telekon wrote: »

Racking my brain here...doesn't help that the most crooked, inept and useless political party in the western world have been in power for 61 of the last 79 years. :mad:

You think Lemass and Lynch were "inept and useless"? :rolleyes: It's as if you can't even admit some FFers got some things right in the past without being accused of being a FF sympathiser or some such bollocks.

To answer the question, I'd agree with what Biggins said and I'd have Lemass No.1 and Lynch No.2.

Bruton was our last decent one but doesn't get a lot of credit because he wasn't particularly charismatic.

raveni

Kaleb Ancient Rudder wrote: »

Hello,

So who, in your opinion, was ireland's greatest tee-shock. Was it Eammon De Valera? Or Bertie Ahern? Or Jonah Lomu?

One of them wasn't acutally a teeshock, guess which one.

In my fictional ireland, Michael Scofield is the teeshock of ireland. He rules with a benevolant iron fist.

But really, I guess Sean Lemass was pretty excellent. He looked like the priest in father ted who had a very boring voice. Also, a little like vincent price.

Eh, seriously?? What the hell is wrong with you? That's not how you spell it:mad:


























It's spelt teashock.

Pride Fighter

What's with all the Lemass love. The man was a crook.

Garret Fitz was the best cause he was the only person who was in it for the public good, rather than lining his own pocket.

Einhard

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

You think Lemass and Lynch were "inept and useless"? :rolleyes: It's as if you can't even admit some FFers got some things right in the past without being accused of being a FF sympathiser or some such bollocks.

To answer the question, I'd agree with what Biggins said and I'd have Lemass No.1 and Lynch No.2.

Bruton was our last decent one but doesn't get a lot of credit because he wasn't particularly charismatic.

I think he meant the party as a whole...

Can I ask why Jack Lynch gets such a high rating? It was his election manifesto of '77 that led to the giveaway budgets, and played a major part in the economic toruble of the following decade. In his final two year term, Ireland saw a deficit of nearly 18% which dwarves our current one, and was a record at the time for a developed nation. The national debt rose by £2 billion in two years. He seemed to have been a genuine man, but I don't see why people wax so lyrical about him.

Einhard

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What's with all the Lemass love. The man was a crook.

Garret Fitz was the best cause he was the only person who was in it for the public good, rather than lining his own pocket.

Doesn't necessarily make him the best taoiseach though. Also, John A Costello was extremely reluctant to take up the position, and did so on a lower salary than his previous position as a barrister, so I don't think it's true to say Fitzgerald was unique.

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What's with all the Lemass love. The man was a crook.

Garret Fitz was the best cause he was the only person who was in it for the public good, rather than lining his own pocket.

I agree about Garret - but to call Lemass a crook?

Thats like saying Black is white! He was far, far from it.
Name ONE thing that he was involved with as a supposed crook?

The man if you know your history, turned this country right around. He industrialised it big time.
* He turned (through selective appointments and overseeing) the state of then Irish education around.
* He helped create what is now Irish tourism!
* His Programme for Economic Development saw the creation of Bord na Mona, Aer Lingus and the Irish Shipping industry.
* He introduced big-time and brought ESB to all corners of our island.
* He helped create Irish television (he might have regretted it now looking at some of its rubbish).
* He introduced many social changes including approaching the area of contraception to which none other previous would touch with a barge pole - fear of Rome and all that rubbish.
* He was the first to use the idea of tax breaks and grants to foreign firms in order to try and get them to set up in Ireland, thus increasing our employment rates big time.
* After a period of uncertainty beforehand, he was the first to break the cold non-talking status between the North and Dublin.
* He did all the above and a lot more while working it all within a very small number (less than 15) of semi-state bodies. For the record, according to a 2008 report/policy paper commissioned by Leo Varadkar, there is presently 445 semi-state bodies now doing the same jobs!

He dragged Ireland up into the next century!

And thats just when he got to the top seat - not accounting for his many workings that helped Ireland while he was a lower minister previously!

He was NEVER a crook of any description.
Thats a disgusting, uninformed stupid slur against a good man and its says how much you haven't got a clue about him.

Son Of A Vidic

^ ^ ^ ^

Well said Biggins, of all the candidates it has to be Lemass. But when you look at the overall list of candidates, some would be a cause of national embarrassment.

wild_cat

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

None of them have been great shakes tbh... Dev for keeping us out of the war maybe.

But he did let the Catholic church rule over us like an iron fist....

syklops

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

None of them have been great shakes tbh... Dev for keeping us out of the war maybe.

He put us in more danger by doing so. Had Operation Green, the plan to invade Ireland had gone ahead it would have been lambs to the slaughter. Joining the war would have given us a fighting chance. Luckily for Dev and the rest of us Britain won the Battle of Britain and the operation was postponed.

Pride Fighter

Biggins wrote: »

I agree about Garret - but to call Lemass a crook?

Thats like saying Black is white! He was far, far from it.
Name ONE thing that he was involved with as a supposed crook?

The man if you know your history, turned this country right around. He industrialised it big time.
* He turned (through selective appointments and overseeing) the state of then Irish education around.
* He helped create what is now Irish tourism!
* His Programme for Economic Development saw the creation of Bord na Mona, Aer Lingus and the Irish Shipping industry.
* He introduced big-time and brought ESB to all corners of our island.
* He helped create Irish television (he might have regretted it now looking at some of its rubbish).
* He introduced many social changes including approaching the area of contraception to which none other previous would touch with a barge pole - fear of Rome and all that rubbish.
* He was the first to use the idea of tax breaks and grants to foreign firms in order to try and get them to set up in Ireland, thus increasing our employment rates big time.
* After a period of uncertainty beforehand, he was the first to break the cold non-talking status between the North and Dublin.
* He did all the above and a lot more while working it all within a very small number (less than 15) of semi-state bodies. For the record, according to a 2008 report/policy paper commissioned by Leo Varadkar, there is presently 445 semi-state bodies now doing the same jobs!

He dragged Ireland up into the next century!

And thats just when he got to the top seat - not accounting for his many workings that helped Ireland while he was a lower minister previously!

He was NEVER a crook of any description.
Thats a disgusting, uninformed stupid slur against a good man and its says how much you haven't got a clue about him.

It's been a while since I've read my history, so I will not have all the details at hand but I know he is most certainly a crook.

*He promoted Charles Haughey, ever hear of him?? Not because he was best suited to the job but because he was married to his daughter. Call it what you like cronyism, nepotism. It's typical Fianna Fail.

*He continued to play a game of cards with his Fianna Fail cronies when the North Strand was bombed by the Germans in 1941. He did not leave for Government buildings until the next day, despite knowing parts of Dublin were in flames.

*He advocated isolationist and protectionist policies until the early 50's, sending thousands abroad due to emigration. Fair play that he seen the error of his ways, but he did damage before correcting his error.


That is all I can think of off the top of my head, but there is many others. The man is typical Fianna Fail, did not care about this country and only cared about himself and his close cabal.

Wolfe Tone

wild_cat wrote: »

But he did let the Catholic church rule over us like an iron fist....

How did he? He resisted the RCC when writing the constitution. WE the Irish people let the church have such a big say.


Its not his fault we were all catholic!

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

*He promoted Charles Haughey, ever hear of him?? Not because he was best suited to the job but because he was married to his daughter. Call it what you like cronyism, nepotism. It's typical Fianna Fail.

So he might (not proven) have played the game of politics - show me a politician who hasn't to some degree!
That don't make him a crook!

Pride Fighter wrote: »

*He continued to play a game of cards with his Fianna Fail cronies when the North Strand was bombed by the Germans in 1941. He did not leave for Government buildings until the next day, despite knowing parts of Dublin were in flames.

So he bravely stayed in Dublin while in it was being bombed (even if it was to stupidly play cards!)?
That don't make him a crook!

Pride Fighter wrote: »

*He advocated isolationist and protectionist policies until the early 50's, sending thousands abroad due to emigration. Fair play that he seen the error of his ways, but he did damage before correcting his error.

Actually he was minster who followed the orders of his then leader at the time.
As soon as HE got into the top office he reversed the positions taken by he and his predecessor - and thats on record! He might have written position papers that were seemingly to him right at the time but guess what...
That still don't make him a crook!

Pride Fighter wrote: »

...That is all I can think of off the top of my head, but there is many others. The man is typical Fianna Fail, did not care about this country and only cared about himself and his close cabal.

It should be noted that FF today and FF pre-Charles Haughtey getting into power were much different things - MUCH different.

Please feel free to list any other things you can eventually try and dig up.

He is still - nor ever was - a crook!

Look up any decent authoritative biography and it will list his finite role in Irish history.
None of them yet so far have that I've read, list any crooked dealings. None of them.
I'd like to know your sources which make him out to be a crook!

cml387

Dunno about the best.

Who was it was it who:

Although probably was illegitimate,helped persecution of unmarried mothers
Ran away during the Easter Rising
Purloined money collected in the US for relief of suffering in Ireland to set up a family press dynasty
Caused a civil war by refusing to take an oath he readily took 10 years later
Needlessly impoverished thousands of Irish people by a pointless populist act of withdrawing land annuities.
Created a constitution that cemented Catholic church domination
Died during the school holidays so that we didn't even get a day off.

Answers on a postcard please.

cml387

..and also refused to join a fight against one of the vilest regimes in world hisory and expressed condolences on the death of it's evil leader.

The Left Hand Of God

None of them.

They are all Irish people and there for just cute whores.

Good representation of the populace for a small country like Ireland.

Pride Fighter

Biggins wrote: »

So he might (not proven) have played the game of politics - show me a politician who hasn't to some degree!
That don't make him a crook!


So he bravely stayed in Dublin while in it was being bombed (even if it was to stupidly play cards!)?
That don't make him a crook!



Actually he was minster who followed the orders of his then leader at the time.
As soon as HE got into the top office he reversed the positions taken by his predecessor - and thats on record!
That don't make him a crook!


It should be noted that FF today and FF pre-Charles Haughtey getting into power were much different things - MUCH different.

Please feel free to list any other things you can eventually try and dig up.

He is still - nor ever was - a crook!

You should take off your Fianna Fail rose tinted glasses. I just gave 3 good examples and can find many more. Just cause Lemass was the best of FF, not hard when you look who has ruled us since independence does not make him some sort of non-corrupt, holier than thou saint. He was an effective Taoiseach to a certain degree, but was corrupt as the rest of them.

Capt'n Midnight

msthe80s wrote: »

Greatest ?

He's not born yet and his mother is dead:rolleyes:

He'd be just like Julius Caeser then :eek:

Cookie_Monster

David Lloyd George


:pac:

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

You should take off your Fianna Fail rose tinted glasses. I just gave 3 good examples and can find many more. Just cause Lemass was the best of FF, not hard when you look who has ruled us since independence does not make him some sort of non-corrupt, holier than thou saint. He was an effective Taoiseach to a certain degree, but was corrupt as the rest of them.

You have given 3 terrible examples.
You still have yet to 1. Prove that he is definably a crook 2. Provide authoritative sources/links to back up your claim.

So far we see nothing but your opinion.

As I have already added:

Look up any decent authoritative biography and it will list his finite role in Irish history.
None of them yet so far have that I've read, list any crooked dealings. None of them.
I'd like to know your sources which make him out to be a crook!

For those interested, here is a comprehensive breakdown of Lemass: http://test.scoilnet.ie/Res/maryodubhain100899224214_2.html

Time: http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/36/1101630712400.jpg

efb

1. Lemass
2. Reynolds

Capt'n Midnight

policarp wrote: »

Brian Cowan was the best singing Tee shock next to Albert Reynolds.
But Bertie was the best two faced Tee shock next to Charlie Heehaw...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-ahern-years/most-devious-of-them-all-was-a-salute-from-haughey-1359902.html

Charlie Haughey put his head around the door, pointed at Bertie Ahern and declared: "He's the man. He's the best, the most skilful, the most devious, and the most cunning of them all."

Where To

I had to read the whole thread to find out what this was about . . . .


I reckon Bob Geldof

Pride Fighter

Biggins wrote: »

You have given 3 terrible examples.
You still have yet to 1. Prove that he is definably a crook 2. Provide authoritative sources/links to back up your claim.

So far we see nothing but your opinion.

As I have already added:

If you cannot see the 3 examples I gave as being 3 concrete examples of cronyism and incompetence that's fine. There are many others, I did history and read loads of stuff and I know Lemass was no white knight. Thing is, I've moved on from the academic world of history and do not have more facts at hand atm. If you wish to follow the blinkered Fianna Fail view that Lemass was a holier than thou visionary thats fine.He was not, and he was the same as any other person in the office of Taoiseach (apart from Garret FitzGerald), if not worse than some.

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

If you cannot see the 3 examples I gave as being 3 concrete examples of cronyism and incompetence that's fine. There are many others, I did history and read loads of stuff and I know Lemass was no white knight. Thing is, I've moved on from the academic world of history and do not have more facts at hand atm. If you wish to follow the blinkered Fianna Fail view that Lemass was a holier than thou visionary thats fine.He was not, and he was the same as any other person in the office of Taoiseach (apart from Garret FitzGerald), if not worse than some.

No one is a saint when it come to politics and if one is play the game of politics, it inevitable that you come into contact with those that are not as always decent (Haughty to begin with).
That said, you have posted NOTHING that has PROVED he was a crook in any substantial way. Nothing.

Certainly no historical archives that I can find list no crookery whatsoever and in order to see if your opinion is right, I have searched extensively!