what you think about weight gainers ?

weewee

waste of money or ?

Ray Mond

serious mass is great i gained bout 7kg after 2 bags of it in 5 weeks but i ate like a horse too

Reggy

why not just eat more? weight gainers are full of sugar anyway so you might gain weight but probably fat too. I suggest sticking with the protein and a good strength training regime. Perhaps ingesting some small amount of carbohydrate when taking a protein shake, will help achieve an optimal level of absorption. a handful of cashews/walnuts is all you would need.

its been said so often on this forum, supplements are just that, supplements. if you want to gain weight you have to eat more frequently. fit in as many meals as you can and lift heavy. protein supplements are great for convenience, after the gym/in work etc, but they are not the be all and end all. If you havent got a huge appetite or if you already eat alot, I suggest reduce portion sizes. sounds crazy for putting on weight but due to the amount of training I do, I have always struggled to keep on the pounds. I used to eat 3 huge square meals a day, now I eat 5, sometimes 6, and the portions are not as big. throw in a post workout shake and you will see the results.

what are your goals? sport? filling out? increasing strength?

Reggy

Ray Mond wrote: »

serious mass is great i gained bout 7kg after 2 bags of it in 5 weeks but i ate like a horse too

do you mind me asking what did you gain more of? lean body weight or fat free mass or both in equal measure???

marathonic

I agree with Topher. I belive the weight gainers are designed for people that can't get enough calories in from normal food. ON Serious Mass has 1250 calories per serving but only 374 if you were to take a 100g servings.

I'm not sure where you get the ON product for 40 euro - it's more expensive where I've seen it. However, at 100g servings, there'd be 54 servings per bag.

In my opinion, given the above information, you'd be better off with Instant Oats and Impact Whey.

5kg of the oats above is €13.29 and 2.5kg of the protein is €39.29. If you mix 100g oats with 50g protein, you'd be getting in 585 calories per serving and a lot more protein than a 100g serving of ON Mass.

If using My Protein, feel free to use the discount code MP289427 (this is my personal discount code). This will get you 5% of your first order.

Also, regarding oats, you can use any cheaper type of oats that you buy in a supermarket - although you would more than likely need to put the supermarket ones in a blender. myProteins are already ground down - I actually ordered a 5kg bag from them earlier today (along with some Liquid Chalk and Peanut Butter).

marathonic

Reggy wrote: »

do you mind me asking what did you gain more of? lean body weight or fat free mass or both in equal measure???

I'd imagine it'd have been mostly fat. As far as I've read, you can only expect to add 1lb of muscle every 2 weeks - 2.5 lbs in 5 weeks (newbies can possibly expect a little more but not TOO much).

If the above is accurate, that would mean that of the 7kg (15.4 lbs), only 2.5 lbs is muscle and the other 12.9 lbs is fat.

Of course, I could be wrong as I've only started my first bulk after cutting down the bodyfat.

Personally, I think the Weight Gainers are more suited to larger people or people who do a significant amount of training and therefore need to consume A LOT of calories in a day.

Ray Mond

Reggy wrote: »

do you mind me asking what did you gain more of? lean body weight or fat free mass or both in equal measure???

well both of equal meaure but i did gain a lot of strength because my calories where up that high,

marathonic

weewee wrote: »

@marathonic here you get for 40euros - http://www.irish-lifting.com/serious-mass-ps-66.html and the highest i have seen it was 44.99

@reggy im very lean i have 6pack, pecs, round shoulder, detail back, only problem is i want a bigger version of what i am now lol i just want them bigger aka build lean muscle
i want no fat and im aint bulking up either just thought the extra carbs would be useful for either the morning or after training to make sure im not burnin muscle away

You still think i should eat my carbs instead of drink my cabs/supplements

In my opinion (although wait to see reggy's advice as I'm not a seasoned pro at this yet ), it'd be better to eat your carbs. It's also better to eat your protein as opposed to using shakes but shakes are convenient.

Before the gym, I'm currently taking two boiled eggs and a protein shake with water but, as I train early in the morning, I purchased the myProtein Oats to mix with the protein shake. I done this based on the advice on another thread and do expect the extra carbs to allow me to push out an extra few reps in each excercise.

marathonic

weewee wrote: »

@marathonic do the instant oats mix up well and what flavour do you get or tried
these instant oats seem to be good 70carbs per 100g

I got the 5kg bag of unflavoured - I don't feel the flavoured is worth it (they do the flavoured in a max size of 2.5kg bags and these cost more than the 5kg unflavoured bags). My Whey is flavoured and oats are pretty bland anyway - they're not like BCAA powders and some other products where the taste is so bad that it needs to be masked with flavouring.

I only placed the order today so haven't had a chance to try it - it'll be next week before I try it. However, it's a relatively new product for myProtein and has extremely good reviews.

pachey100

I would never use a gainer it seems a waste when you could be eating something tasty and a whole pile more nutritious. Having said that I do take Iso Gold protein which is handy for those times when your in a rush.

marathonic

weewee wrote: »

@marathonic do the instant oats mix up well and what flavour do you get or tried
these instant oats seem to be good 70carbs per 100g

You seem to be researching a lot of different supplements. Just in case you'd like to research further, it's more flexible and sometime cheaper to buy ingredients separate and mix yourself.

For example, I've a couple of pre-mixed products that I'm finishing up now but in the long term the following will be my general supplement plan:

Pre-Workout
Impact Whey Protein
Instant Oats


Post-Workout
Impact Whey Protein
Waxy Maize Starch
Creatine Monohydrate
Glutamine
L-Leucine


During a cut, I'd half the amount of Waxy Maize Starch and Instant Oats (or remove them). This is where the flexibility comes in. Waxy Maize Starch could be replaced with Dextrose if desired. Both of these are fast acting carbs and are, therefore, ideal for post-workout - when your muscles are crying out for energy.

I'd also consider Scivation Xtend instead of all of the above during a cut in order to preserve muscle and minimise calories.

Reggy

weewee wrote: »

@marathonic here you get for 40euros - http://www.irish-lifting.com/serious-mass-ps-66.html and the highest i have seen it was 44.99

@reggy im very lean i have 6pack, pecs, round shoulder, detail back, only problem is i want a bigger version of what i am now lol i just want them bigger aka build lean muscle
i want no fat and im aint bulking up either just thought the extra carbs would be useful for either the morning or after training to make sure im not burnin muscle away

You still think i should eat my carbs instead of drink my cabs/supplements

if you want to stay lean then do not take a weight gainer. Oats can be used to get in some nice clean calories but I dont get the whole idea of taking oats in a shake,but tbh, ive not tried it!!! id rather make a protein flap jack myself with some whey and honey (resource for recipe below).

The key to gaining clean bulk is to lift heavy weights and increase the amount of protein per day. A recommended level of protein for increasing size is to ingest 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. I weigh 197 pounds so I take on approximately 200g of protein a day if I am lifting weigths that day or the day before. the minimal amount of extra protein consumption to achieve muscle mass can be seen here: according to research by the International Soc of sports nutrition, to gain 1 pound of lean mass per week, an athlete must ingest an EXTRA 14g of protein a day.

To put that in context:

1 scoop protein powder dry= 20-25g (brand dependent)
1 chicken breast = 20g (size dependent)
1 egg = 5- 7g (size dependent)
I cup of milk (250ml) = 8g

other foods like steak are obviously high in protein but depending on the cut, and fat content, it is hard to say exactly what the content is, but probably around 20g.

One point I will make about a high protein diet is that if you have had any kidney or liver problems talk to your GP first before taking this much protein in per day. If not, you should be ok, but take plenty of water too to keep your kidneys flushed. same if you decide to use creatine which may also help with your goals, but thats a conversation for another time that I would be happy to talk about.

One great resource for making your own simple high protein recipes is Dave Ruel the muscle cook. sounds naff, I know. Just add him on facebook and you get access to all his tasty, high protein recipes but again like with everything on the net, beware not to take his advice too literal because he is always trying to sell sh1t from his sponsors. but a great resource none the less. http://www.facebook.com/themusclecook

Timing of protein: "net muscle protein balance increases substantially more when a protein+carb mixture is ingested before an acute bout of resistance exercise compared with after exercise". many people debate when is the best time to take protein, before or after weight training. the answer is: both. I used to take protein straight after to feed my muscles and whilst this is true in theory it has been suggested in recent research that ingesting protein before training can increase amino acid availability during the actual training.

with this is in mind I would recommend the following:

before training, take half a scoop of protein powder with water. taking milk can often lead to a stickyness in my throat and I feel thirstier when training. Half a scoop is enough because your body can only absorb a small amount of protein at any given time anyway.

also take a handful of nuts or a few spoonfuls of peanut butter, these low GI carbs will release energy for training at a slower pace than say lucozade or starchy foods like potato. also the nuts contain protein too.

after training, a few branched chain amino acid tablets can be taken with water and the other half of your protein scoop and that way, it wont fill you up allowing you to eat a high protein meal a half an hour later.

as I said earlier, taking carbohydrate does allow for a greater uptake in protein absorption. some protein brands contain a small amount (mine has around 5g) of carbs within a scoop so you dont need to take on extra carbs for absorption. If there is a low carb content to your whey, then I suggest drinking a little cup of mi wadi a few minutes after the protein shake, to assist protein absorption: that will help with rehydration too.

Hope this helps, and good luck with it.

Mellor

Reggy wrote: »

To put that in context:

1 scoop protein powder dry= 20-25g (brand dependent)
1 chicken breast = 20g (size dependent)
1 egg = 5- 7g (size dependent)
I cup of milk (250ml) = 8g

other foods like steak are obviously high in protein but depending on the cut, and fat content, it is hard to say exactly what the content is, but probably around 20g.

Good post, but want to correct one mistake you've made.

you said protein per chicken breast/steak you you quoted protein per 100gs. big difference. (you also gave the low end of the scale, chicken is 20-25g and steak is 24-30g)

A whole breast or steak has about 40-100g depending on size. Makes it much easier to hit your targets.

Reggy

Mellor wrote: »

Good post, but want to correct one mistake you've made.

you said protein per chicken breast/steak you you quoted protein per 100gs. big difference. (you also gave the low end of the scale, chicken is 20-25g and steak is 24-30g)

A whole breast or steak has about 40-100g depending on size. Makes it much easier to hit your targets.

yes, absolutely I quoted approximate protein values per 100g for chicken breast and steak, I should have made that clear. It is difficult however to determine the exact protein content as protein content will vary depending on the animal and cut (ie free range chickens have more protein content than non).

I was trying to illustrate how you can achieve muscle gains by avoiding sugary/expensive weight gainers. like many people I tend to cut away the fat from meat quite liberally so you loose some lean meat along with that. safest bet though, check the nutritional labels and you will get an idea of how much protein is available per 100g serving. have a look at this old thread for info http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055570372

gymsoldier

weewee wrote: »

what you think if i was to buy this bread and eat it most days http://www.brennansbread.ie/products/brennans-wholemeal/

That is a sin and I hope you go off straight to the church for confession.

Duffman'05

gymsoldier wrote: »

That is a sin and I hope you go off straight to the church for confession.

Can you please elaborate? Is wholemeal bread a total no no?

gymsoldier

Duffman'05 wrote: »

Can you please elaborate? Is wholemeal bread a total no no?

I'm just of the opinion that bread is not a great way to go, except for another type of bread I mentioned in an earlier thread. Does any body know the GI of this wholemeal bread?

Reggy

as far as I know, wholemeal bread aint far off white bread in terms of GI!

davmol

Domino's have a great weight gainer its called the 'Carnivore meal deal'...Mmmm

From looking at the ingredients of weight gainers it seems that you'd be better served eating lots of chocolate and enjoying yourself and throwing in some protein shakes. Doesn't appear to be anything clean about their contents. Just sugar + starches. I know funn-er ways of getting sugar and starch into me!

marathonic

deadanonymau5 wrote: »

2 5.45KG bags?

Clean/dirty bulk?

That's 8,000 calories per week from the Weight Gainer alone :eek:

Dathai

I gain a lot when I eat chicken breasts, sweet potatoes and cabbage. It's a relatively inexpensive meal, so I can have it two or more times in a day if I have the option. I usually have one shake with just a scoop of True Mass a day just for taste. But if you stick to actually lashing in the food and having maybe two shakes a day, you'll notice some gains pretty quick. You'll adjust to the food intake after a few days.

Also, turkey and roast beef slices from a deli are awesome for snacks. If I'm near a spar in the mornings after training I'll get about 4 slices and eat them on my way to work before I get a PWO shake.

Using mass gainer shakes as your only means of meeting your calorie intake or exceeding it is not a good idea. I did it before when I first started out and got pretty sick and noticed no gains in the slightest. Apart from a double chin of course.

Duck's hoop

A litre of whole milk and 2 scoops of whey is 850 cals and 80 grams protein.

That's plenty.

Reasonable too.